I have an editorial problem

Torgo · Sep 13, 2013

So, I've just had a middle-grade book land on my desk, acquired a while back by an editor who has since left the company. (A very good editor, too.) The problem is it's awful. Messy, unfocused, illogical, unfunny. The manuscript needs rewriting from the ground up, with work required on plot, setting, characters, framing device, everything. It is not so much a fixer-upper as it is a tear-down. I would not have bought it.

About an hour ago, having finished annotating the document with annotations which must never be released to the author, I spotted something I'd missed: this is the ninth draft.

I've worked on books before that I've taken over from colleagues and had to do lots of work on, but in those cases I was looking at second-draft sort of things. I was coming in, if not for the curtain-raising, then at the end of the first reel. This is a first for me. So broken, and so late.

I'm going to have to ask the author for a radical and extensive rewrite, when clearly said author will quite legitimately feel we are reasonably happy with it, because it's been through so many rewrites already. I'm not looking forward to that.

From an authorial point of view: in the author's place, how would you like this news delivered? I'm leaning towards old-school: in-person, over lunch and possibly a bottle of wine or two. (Apparently they're very nice, but I've never met or interacted with them before.) Any advice? If not, it was cathartic to whine about it a bit, anyway.

Calla Lily · Sep 13, 2013

I vote for in-person. I'm pretty hard-shelled and my agent knows it, but when he has bad news, he calls.

This is wicked bad news, so I think in-person is the best way. Do you know if this author is volatile? In other words, should you choose a crowded restaurant? Seriously.

Melville · Sep 13, 2013

Before you meet, can you get a hold of the draft that the original editor bought?

Sometimes too many directed re-drafts destroys a work... it MIGHT just be that you will see something you can work with in an earlier draft.

Deciding on whether to meet with some one for this kind of catastrophic bad news probably should depend on the gun laws where you are.

In the USA (where I live), I'd never meet with someone under these circumstances who I didn't know. In the UK and Canada, I probably would.

buz · Sep 13, 2013

As a shy person who does pretty badly with real-time conversation, and who becomes instantly Super Anxious when one person's attention is completely focused on me, I might actually prefer to hear such a thing in writing and from a distance. My shame and embarrassment might flood all rational thinking skills upon hearing it, and having it in an email would allow me the ability to walk away and get a grip before dealing with the actual matter at hand.

However, if you have no way of knowing what kind of person the author is, I can certainly appreciate that taking someone out in person and easing them into a more casual or conversational setting could blunt the trauma, so to speak

Even as a socially inept anxiety freak, I would probably appreciate the inherent consideration in such a gesture, even if it would drive my acute stress levels through the roof...

ETA: Little Anonymous Me had an interesting idea...I can't quite imagine how I would feel, as I've never had that happen, but if you do go with an in-person meeting, I think it would be well worth discussing it in email first so that it's not dropped out of the sky on their head, so to speak.

usuallycountingbats · Sep 13, 2013

Is it possible for you to speak to the acquiring editor to discuss their thoughts or is that Not The Done Thing in publishing? I genuinely don't know by the way.

I have peer reviewed a lot of stuff, and whilst it's not entirely the same, it is similar, and my experience is to always ring at the very least and where possible sit down in person. It helps you gauge how to break the news, and frankly if you do it by email, I always think it comes across as gutless and not having the courage of your convictions. At least when you sit down together you can help thrash out how to turn it from useless to passable. I know sometimes people whose work I've reviewed needed to have a bit of back and forth to understand why their report wasn't client worthy, and certainly I've then had a lot less to do when I see the next draft.

All of which is a long winded way of saying in person with enough time for you to discuss the issues in some depth and come up with a way forward you are both happy with.

Williebee · Sep 13, 2013

Seconding the in person, if it is possible/at all practical to do so.

Also Seconding the researching to see what any earlier versions or the earliest version looked like. You may discover that the progress has not been substantive, or in fact destructive.

Good luck!

Little Anonymous Me · Sep 13, 2013

Can you do a mix of the two? I generally prefer getting bad news via email or some such, as I can scream and be a psycho in private. Then I like to meet with the person when I've had a chance to screw my head on straight and talk it through with them. I also agree that getting your hands on an earlier draft might be worth it---unless you've got one stubborn author, it's probably a world away from what came in. (At least, I hope like hell it is.)

Parametric · Sep 13, 2013

I would hate to be confronted with this in a public place with no escape. Email allows me to take some time to get my feelings under control before replying calmly.

escritora · Sep 13, 2013

What about a combination? Send along thoughts via email and extend an invitation to lunch to discuss further. This way the author is prepared for the conversation. (As to what I'd prefer: no lunch. phone, email works for me.)

stormie · Sep 13, 2013

The ninth draft of an MG novel?! Whoa. It's not easy writing for kids, in fact it's far harder than writing for adults, but still....

Check out the original ms. if you can. Then I vote for meeting the author(s) in person. (I like the bottle of wine.

)

mirandashell · Sep 13, 2013

I would probably email with the initial news and then say something like 'if you want to meet up and discuss it, we could have lunch at (a nice restaurant). Give me a call...

Cos I'm another one who would hate that sprung on me in public.

usuallycountingbats · Sep 13, 2013

I don't think you have to spring it on someone though. I'm presuming the approach would be along the lines of an email saying you've taken it over, you want to help make sure it's great, can you meet in order to discuss what's been said so far and how to take it forward. You'd have to be really bad at your job if you invited someone to a meeting then ripped into them in public! I'm using a generic 'you' by the way here!

I've had some reports across my desk which were borderline illiterate and there's no way they could have gone out to a client without a total rewrite. None of the people who wrote them were put in a position where they had to get their emotions under control because I didn't make them feel shitty about their work. I made it clear I was there to help them and they could always always ask me for my opinion.

I know it isn't quite the same thing, but I think you can deliver this kind of news in a supportive way which doesn't make someone feel horrible. In much the same way that an Internet forum is a brutal place to get a critique of work, but in person you can have a dialogue so the same thing feels much less brutal?

Maybe I'm utterly wrong though, maybe publishing is too different?

Perks · Sep 13, 2013

Yeah, I'd have to say that I'd prefer to get this news in an email - which will probably take you nine drafts to get right. It would be too embarrassing and cornering to get this news for the first time face-to-face in public. Maybe tell them and invite them to lunch to talk about it further?

I'm so sorry, Torgo. This sounds like a nightmare scenario. I like the idea of seeing if you can have a peek at the first draft. Maybe it's got something to it that has been now over-thought or over-written? Wishful thinking very occasionally pays off, right?

Torgo · Sep 13, 2013

Cor, 6,000 posts for me! Thanks for the replies, folks, it's helping me to formulate a plan.

callalily61 said:
This is wicked bad news, so I think in-person is the best way. Do you know if this author is volatile? In other words, should you choose a crowded restaurant? Seriously.

Apparently very nice and friendly, so I doubt I'd need to take my pepper spray!

Melville said:
Before you meet, can you get a hold of the draft that the original editor bought?

Good point. Might be tricky, but will give that a shot.

buzhidao said:
I might actually prefer to hear such a thing in writing and from a distance. My shame and embarrassment might flood all rational thinking skills upon hearing it, and having it in an email would allow me the ability to walk away and get a grip before dealing with the actual matter at hand.

Yeah, I hear that. It's also not unusual to have an author smile and nod and go off apparently happy from a sit-down, then get a stinker of a letter from the agent.

usuallycountingbats said:
Is it possible for you to speak to the acquiring editor to discuss their thoughts or is that Not The Done Thing in publishing? I genuinely don't know by the way.

Maybe. I would have to tread quite carefully, to avoid implying "what were you thinking!?!?!" It's kind of a puzzle because the editor in question is, indisputably, one of the best.

Little Anonymous Me said:
Can you do a mix of the two? I generally prefer getting bad news via email or some such, as I can scream and be a psycho in private.

That's not a bad idea - possibly soften up in person without getting into detail, then send the horrible detail via email. At least then the notes aren't coming from a complete stranger.

Parametric said:
I would hate to be confronted with this in a public place with no escape. Email allows me to take some time to get my feelings under control before replying calmly.

I hear that too.

seun · Sep 13, 2013

As odd as it might sound, I'd probably want this face to face in your office. A lunch would feel too informal. Plus it's hard to eat and talk seriously.

Maggie Maxwell · Sep 13, 2013

I'd definitely want the news over email with possible meeting in person after. I'm nice and wouldn't freak out yelling, but I might break down sobbing in the middle of the restaurant, and I don't think anyone wants that. Like other have said, email first allows the person getting the news to have their strong emotions in private instead of in a public, confined area.

Torgo · Sep 13, 2013

seun said:
As odd as it might sound, I'd probably want this face to face in your office. A lunch would feel too informal. Plus it's hard to eat and talk seriously.

Which is how I'd normally have this kind of conversation, I suppose. I just suddenly feel the need for alcohol.

seun · Sep 13, 2013

Torgo said:
Which is how I'd normally have this kind of conversation, I suppose. I just suddenly feel the need for alcohol.

Bring a few cans to the meeting.

usuallycountingbats · Sep 13, 2013

Can you phrase your question to the acquiring editor along the lines of 'this has landed on my desk, I see its been through a lot of rewrites, could you summarise the thought process for me because I don't want to annoy the author by asking them to change something back'? That might give you some insight into what they were thinking whilst coming across more like you want to defer to their knowledge?

Torgo · Sep 13, 2013

seun said:
Bring a few cans to the meeting.

Ha! Come in, shake hands, wordlessly wheel in the drinks trolley.

usuallycountingbats · Sep 13, 2013

seun said:
As odd as it might sound, I'd probably want this face to face in your office. A lunch would feel too informal. Plus it's hard to eat and talk seriously.

I don't think that's odd at all. It sounds professional to me, and it's how I'd do it. I just assumed editors met authors in restaurants so that was the done thing!

Torgo · Sep 13, 2013

usuallycountingbats said:
Can you phrase your question to the acquiring editor along the lines of 'this has landed on my desk, I see its been through a lot of rewrites, could you summarise the thought process for me because I don't want to annoy the author by asking them to change something back'? That might give you some insight into what they were thinking whilst coming across more like you want to defer to their knowledge?

Yep, something along those lines.

heza · Sep 13, 2013

Torgo said:
Good point. Might be tricky, but will give that a shot.

If you can't get it from in house, could you perhaps ask the author for the original draft? I don't know what the etiquette is there--or if it's a problem of implying that the house somehow lost the first draft--but if I knew that my MS was changing editors, I wouldn't think anything of it if the new editor asked me for the draft so as to get a handle on the history of the changes.

Maybe. I would have to tread quite carefully, to avoid implying "what were you thinking!?!?!" It's kind of a puzzle because the editor in question is, indisputably, one of the best.

I obviously don't know the details surrounding the acquiring editor's move, but there have been times in my life, despite being good at what I do, that I've fallen down on something:

When my mom got sick and I had to quit my job (suddenly) and wrap things up (very quickly) so I could go take care of her. Some things couldn't be done in time and some fell through the cracks.
When my dad got sick and had treatment in my city, necessitating my being with him all the time. I was barely in the office and sort of started to phone it in during that time.
When I've had my own severe health problems and just wasn't anywhere near 100%.
When I've been quitting a job I really disliked and the employer was making my exit very unbearable.

Not saying any of those are similar to this situation--just illustrating how these things might happen.

That's not a bad idea - possibly soften up in person without getting into detail, then send the horrible detail via email. At least then the notes aren't coming from a complete stranger.

I like this idea. I think it's what I'd prefer. If I got a new editor, maybe lunch could just be a get to know you session, and then during lunch you could reveal your plan to review the change history and see if you agree with it all and how you're already finding opportunities for greater potential you'd like to detail later in email.

I'm not sure how these situations work. Is there any way to spin this as a positive process? Or is it just that bad and any revisions suggested will be really obvious to the author as a complete overhaul of a crap work?

jjdebenedictis · Sep 13, 2013

As a writer, I would also vote for the bad news in email first. I would want to have privacy and space to freak out in.

However, I think you should ask for a face-to-face meeting with the writer in that initial email. That way, they know you want to engage and work with them and are not trying to keep them at arms' length.

Email can be impersonal, but that is a good thing if the person needs some time to get their emotions back in the bag. Switching the scenario to personal right away then offsets the coolness of your initial hands-off approach.

Marian Perera · Sep 13, 2013

Torgo said:
Ha! Come in, shake hands, wordlessly wheel in the drinks trolley.

Or the AED.

I definitely would not want to hear such news for the first time over a meal in a nice restaurant. It would take my appetite away. Email would work better, even if it was a vague email like, "we need to discuss some problems in the manuscript". Then I'd appreciate a face-to-face meeting in your office as soon as possible, so I wasn't worrying about the problems for too long.

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