Sexual Offences Act Interpretation

What do you need for the story?

I can't see too much happening to him. He has no position of responsibility over her, plus his union would raise a fuss if he were disciplined.

InsanitySquares said:

I've got a girl who's relocated to a new town after her parents split up, she's struggling to fit into a new school halfway through the academic year and ends up skipping class because she can't handle it. She hides in the school grounds but is found by a young janitor (early 20s) who befriends and comforts her, and they eventually end up having a relationship.

I don't particularly want him to get arrested for it, though - there's nothing predatory about him, it's more two lost souls turn to each other for support and friendship expands into love type thing. I don't particularly want him jailed or anything like that, but if that's what would happen in real life then I'm going to have to have a bit of plot tweaking to do.

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I don't know the UK statutes so don't know for sure how what you posted would be interpreted. It looks as if he could be charged, theoretically.

However, as he's 20s and they're apparently in an actual relationship, even if it were possible to charge him - who is going to, in your story? Like do you have someone who'd make a complaint for some reason?

waylander said:

I can't see too much happening to him. He has no position of responsibility over her, plus his union would raise a fuss if he were disciplined.

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He may not have a position of authority, but he would be in position of trust. The whole scenario could come under Child Protection http://www.safenetwork.org.uk/getting_started/Pages/Why_does_safeguarding_matter.aspx

If I was teaching in a school and was aware that a pupil was having what could be deemed an inappropriate relationship I would be legally bound to report the matter to the designated member of staff.

cornflake said:

I don't know the UK statutes so don't know for sure how what you posted would be interpreted. It looks as if he could be charged, theoretically.

However, as he's 20s and they're apparently in an actual relationship, even if it were possible to charge him - who is going to, in your story? Like do you have someone who'd make a complaint for some reason?

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Crunchy has made a valid point - who would report him in the context of your story which might be very different from a real life situation.

The job had become vacant after the previous caretaker was dismissed for having an inappropriate relationship with a female pupil

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soham_murders#Police_Reform_Act_2002

InsanitySquares said:

I'm trying to find out who brings the cases in teacher-pupil relationships, as that's the easiest thing to find information on - if it's the parents or the local authority. If it's the former, then my character's parents wouldn't be the type to do that, but if it's the latter then I need to work out whether my janitor character would also be affected by this.

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In each school I have worked I was handed a child protection leaflet outlining the school policy and naming the members of staff who are responsible for Child Protection issues. You can see a good example of Safeguarding Policy here:http://www.eastbergholthigh.suffolk.sch.uk/SchoolPolicies click on Safeguarding Policy including Referral Protocol.

Does it make a difference if she's 16?

It depends - if she is under a Child Protection Order (I think that is what it is called) it might. I am not sure, but I don't think her age would necessarily be the issue but the caretakers behaviour would be.* If she is still in school then the school has a duty of care towards her. I do know that in some instances the authorities have turned a blind eye to some relationships, but that was before Soham and the law being tightened up.

*that is that his behaviour could be deemed inappropriate

There's a chance the school will want to keep scandal to a minimum. When I was in school (admittedly 20 years ago), this happened & the assistant was quietly asked to leave.

Just a thought, does the janitor have to be a janitor? I was thinking if it was someone on a "work experience/work for welfare" program (not sure what those programs are called in the UK) as a janitor's assistant I think it would be much less likely that there would be any trouble with a relationship.
I don't know the duration of such programs in the UK, but I know they can last for a year here in Norway. If the UK programs last for long enough for your story, it may make it easier to tell the story without the "legal problem" hanging in the background.

You've got some things in this post that would concern me as a defense attorney, things likely to trigger a response by the authorities. Whether they would lead to a response is questionable, but they are concerns that I would have. Note that I don't practice in England and never have, so the mileage might vary a bit.

InsanitySquares said:

I've got a girl who's relocated to a new town after her parents split up, she's struggling to fit into a new school halfway through the academic year and ends up skipping class because she can't handle it. Okay, she's needy, dropping out, and should trigger concerns by teachers and administration. She's what we would call an "at risk" student. She hides in the school grounds but is found by a young janitor (early 20s) who befriends and comforts her, and they eventually end up having a relationship. Okay, he acts within the scope of his employment in finding her, then ignores his job and what his employer would want him to do. This is exactly the type of person for whom the statute is written. This type of behavior is awfully hard to present in a positive fashion.

I don't particularly want him to get arrested for it, though - there's nothing predatory about him I know a lot of people would disagree with you. The fact that he doesn't realize he's predatory doesn't mean he isn't., it's more two lost souls turn to each other for support and friendship expands into love type thing. Which is how a lot of people in these types of situations like this believe. Which is what a lot of pedophiles believe. A lot of prosecutors would fall to the floor laughing at this. I don't particularly want him jailed or anything like that, but if that's what would happen in real life then I'm going to have to have a bit of plot tweaking to do. Any teacher becoming aware of the situation should report it to the administration. The administration should report it to the police.

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In the US, in this situation, if charges were brought, I'd be happy to plea this sucker for sex offender registry, suspended jail, a lot of probation, and no contact. It could be innocent, but it's just as likely not to be.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

jclarkdawe said:

You've got some things in this post that would concern me as a defense attorney, things likely to trigger a response by the authorities. Whether they would lead to a response is questionable, but they are concerns that I would have. Note that I don't practice in England and never have, so the mileage might vary a bit.

In the US, in this situation, if charges were brought, I'd be happy to plea this sucker for sex offender registry, suspended jail, a lot of probation, and no contact. It could be innocent, but it's just as likely not to be.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

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Sex offender registry? She's 16 and the guy is in his early 20s and in no position of power over her.

I'm not saying it couldn't technically happen but I don't think that many prosecutors would care that much, if there wasn't some risk of publicity.

I'm presuming the reference to pedophiles wasn't intended to refer to this scenario.

16 is under the age of consent in many states in the US.

So yes, jclarkdawe would have a good case as a prosecutor over here.

He might even have a good case if she was 18, since the man is on staff and she's a student.

None of which addresses UK law.

Cath said:

There's a chance the school will want to keep scandal to a minimum. When I was in school (admittedly 20 years ago), this happened & the assistant was quietly asked to leave.

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It might be beyond the schools power to keep it quiet as other agencies could be involved.

Weirdmage said:

Just a thought, does the janitor have to be a janitor? I was thinking if it was someone on a "work experience/work for welfare" program (not sure what those programs are called in the UK) as a janitor's assistant I think it would be much less likely that there would be any trouble with a relationship.
I don't know the duration of such programs in the UK, but I know they can last for a year here in Norway. If the UK programs last for long enough for your story, it may make it easier to tell the story without the "legal problem" hanging in the background.

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Anyone who works/volunteers in a school is subject to school policies and all the legislation that is in place to keep pupils safe. Any adult, whether a teacher, janitor, school cook, trainee that starts a relationship with a pupil could be heading for serious trouble. The relationship may be innocent, but it could be deemed inappropriate.

The whole area of adult/pupil relationships is a minefield. By adult I mean anyone who works or volunteers in a school.

Jim is very right about this

Okay, she's needy, dropping out, and should trigger concerns by teachers and administration. She's what we would call an "at risk" student

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She would possibly be on an at risk register - so she would probably have a social worker keeping eyes on.

What can I say, Cornflake? I've got a coupe of prosecutors who view their mission as prosecutors to protect people from bad relationships. I've got some others that wouldn't touch this with a ten-foot pole.

The pedophile comment relates to the thinking that they're two lost souls. Sometimes this type of thinking is legitimate, but too many people who engage in abusive-type situations love to justify it, and this seems to be one way they justify it. A couple of prosecutors I know would identify this reasoning as bullshit.

You trade sex offender registry for jail and probation time. I'll be the first to say that a couple of years in prison versus a life time on the sex offender registry that the prison is the better deal. But most of my clients are not the smartest people in the world.

The in power over her is going to be a legal nightmare, but would go along the argument that he is an employee of the school, he discovered her when she was cutting class, and then counseled her. He then failed to report this to the administration. I'd stand a better chance in front of a judge as to whether this relationship met the legal definition then in front of a jury as to whether this relationship met the factual definition. A lot of trial judges would dump this on the jury, and let the appeals court sort it out on the legal basis.

As I said, a lot of prosecutors wouldn't touch this. Others, however, would relish the case and get a lot of publicity.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

Can he be younger? What if he was a student at the school a year or two before and is only 18? Maybe he dropped out and ended up working there, or graduated and doesn't think his prospects are good, so he's working their as a sort of "there's nothing else I can do with my life. This is just what I'll have to do."

That way he's younger, might have even known her (or seen her before), and she's not the only one who's needy. He could have low self-esteem himself. Then you'd have an interesting case where it's not just her being helped, but her helping him, and it's a much more equal situation.

Is this a difference in attitude thing between the UK and the US?

Because a ~23 year old guy hitting on a 16 year old girl is giving me the skeevy-jeevies, even in states where 16 is the age of consent. The fact that he's a member of staff is giving me skeevier-jeevies.

Making him not a member of staff sounds like a more solid, legally, way to go for the story; but I still get skeevy shivers.

ULTRAGOTHA said:

Is this a difference in attitude thing between the UK and the US?

Because a ~23 year old guy hitting on a 16 year old girl is giving me the skeevy-jeevies, even in states where 16 is the age of consent. The fact that he's a member of staff is giving me skeevier-jeevies.

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No, it isn't a matter of which side ot the Atlantic. Attitudes have changed greatly about the age of consent and related matters. The old-fashioned idea was that a sexually mature woman was mature enough, regardless of age.

jclarkdawe said:

You trade sex offender registry for jail and probation time. I'll be the first to say that a couple of years in prison versus a life time on the sex offender registry that the prison is the better deal. But most of my clients are not the smartest people in the world.

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To the best of my knowledge the 'trade' would not happen in England and Wales (Scotland has a different legal system). An ex-colleague, a teacher at the same school I was teaching at, was arrested and charged with various crimes against children. He was on remand for about six weeks. He was sentenced to six years in prison and banned from using the internet again. Ever. He was, and is, on the sex-offenders register. He was released after
four years in prison and has to have regular contact with some one like a probation officer - but I cannot remember the title of the job.

jclarkdawe said:

The in power over her is going to be a legal nightmare, but would go along the argument that he is an employee of the school, he discovered her when she was cutting class, and then counseled her. He then failed to report this to the administration. I'd stand a better chance in front of a judge as to whether this relationship met the legal definition then in front of a jury as to whether this relationship met the factual definition. A lot of trial judges would dump this on the jury, and let the appeals court sort it out on the legal basis.

As I said, a lot of prosecutors wouldn't touch this. Others, however, would relish the case and get a lot of publicity.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

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Counselling a pupil would get him into 'trouble' - especially if he was not qualified or employed to do so. He could be disciplined and that would be on his work record.

Ultragotha there is, I think, a difference in attitude. A lot of the legislation and school policies came into being after the Soham Murders. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soham_murders This was a chilling case that sent shock waves through government and also many schools. Other event,s for example the death of Baby P - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Baby_P, have also changed legislation and school policies.