MetaThread: Cyrus vs. Assad

William Haskins · Aug 29, 2013

even setting aside its 50 hour head start, the syria thread has roughly half the views and half the replies that that the miley cyrus thread has.

what, if anything, does this say about our little community here?

of course, one could make the case that the subject of miley cyrus is rife with broader implications and valid veins of discussion: the exploitative nature of child stardom and the adult identity crisis it so often spurs, the sexualization of pop culture and the often contradictory minefield of slut-shaming, sex-positivity and feminism. and of course, the consequences of pancake ass-meets-latex undies.

still, the syrian issue seems to have significant weight of its own: children being gassed, civil war in a volatile region, implications in israel and iran, finger-wagging between heavyweight nations like russia, china and the US, domestic political machinations in the shadow of iraq and afghanistan and sabre-rattling in a war-weary nation.

so, why the imbalance—especially in what is nominally a political forum?

it's self-evident that cultural issues (race, LGBT issues, abortion, gender equality) catch fire here much more quickly than do pointy-headed economic discussions (sorry, rob) or constitutional discussions (sorry, don).

but this particular example seems rather stark.

are we (both here, and in western culture, in general) addicted to recreational outrage?

do we gravitate to "gut-feel" issues moreso than political ones because they are easier to comprehend?

do we feel powerless in the face of big issues like war and spying and oppression so we unconsciously ignore them more?

or are we just flabby-brained idiots who can pick a kardashian out of a "where's waldo" crowd scene, but can't name the secretary of state?

i wonder...

mirandashell · Aug 29, 2013

I think the reason is that we're having fun on the Cyrus thread. Simple as that.

robjvargas · Aug 29, 2013

I think it's relatively simple, William.

Gossip, like water and electricity, follows the path of least resistance.

Maybe Yorkist struck a truth, too, when she remarked that it's the first thread in a long time where virtually everyone agrees.

asroc · Aug 29, 2013

Personally I don't think either of them would make a good Batman.

*slinks away. Pokes head back in.*

I think the Cyrus topic is just easier. Everyone's seen what happened, or at least the inescapable still photos, and since your opinion on the topic is mostly subjective it's easy to have one, and to voice it. And there's of course the entertainment value of a teen star making an idiot out of herself. You can crack jokes, it's fun.

Syria, on the other hand, is both heartbreaking and complex. It's hard to know what exactly is going on and even harder to figure out what should be done. Any option could have horrific consequences. I for one don't feel I could discuss the issue with any degree of competence because I don't think I know enough about it. Maybe others feel the same?

William Haskins · Aug 29, 2013

asroc said:
I think the Cyrus topic is just easier. Everyone's seen what happened, or at least the inescapable still photos, and since your opinion on the topic is mostly subjective it's easy to have one, and to voice it. And there's of course the entertainment value of a teen star making an idiot out of herself. You can crack jokes, it's fun.

Syria, on the other hand, is both heartbreaking and complex. It's hard to know what exactly is going on and even harder to figure out what should be done. Any option could have horrific consequences. I for one don't feel I could discuss the issue with any degree of competence because I don't think I know enough about it. Maybe others feel the same?

yep. about nails it in my opinion.

Gale Haut · Aug 29, 2013

Jesus, William. I feel like you are reading a lot into it.

Posting an opinion is less belaboring when the topic isn't as heavy, and views are bouncier.

I bet if you want to put word count head to head instead of post count, you're numbers will be less shocking. Same goes for comparing number of visits to the bounce rate for the views. People will spend more time contemplating an issue like Syria than they will Miley Cyrus twerking on an old man.

William Haskins · Aug 29, 2013

why did you address your post to both jesus and me?

i don't work with co-writers.

there's nothing "shocking" about any of it. it was observational.

heza · Aug 29, 2013

I'll answer for myself.

I'm very uncomfortable in this forum. A lot of the political discussions go over my head--not because I'm an idiot but because I'm just not as well versed in politics as other people are here. I find it very difficult to participate in the discussion unless it's something I already know about--like Miley Cyrus.

My guess is that some of the views are from people who don't normally live in P&CE but during a drive by or from glancing at the most recent post title from the main page, saw a conversation that was more accessible to them.

When I hear about an issue, I like to come here to see if it's being discussed, first. This is a hub of compelling arguments from multiple viewpoints, often with really good links to outside support. It lets me follow trails to a lot of different information about a topic.

I tried to follow the Syria thread, but there was just so much from the get go that I wasn't familiar with about foreign affairs and would have taken me more time than I had at the moment to track down... so I read the Miley Cyrus thread instead.

The pop-culture threads are also less intimidating because if you don't know something (twerking), you can ask and someone will explain it. The big political discussions tend to be much more serious, and there's a big expectation for people to know their stuff and have done their research before they start participating.

:Shrug:

William Haskins · Aug 29, 2013

great response, and another aspect i didn't readily consider.

for what it's worth, most of the longtimers here, even the grumpier ones, will engage in discussions to help educate newer or more apprehensive members.

give it a try some time.

mirandashell · Aug 29, 2013

William, could you explain why you're asking?

William Haskins · Aug 29, 2013

genuine curiosity.

robeiae · Aug 29, 2013

The Syrian thread filled up very quickly with a discussion about Bush et al, posturing in that regard, and little real discussion of the specifics in Syria, itself. That kept me away for a while. Can't speak for others, of course.

But I would also guess that there is a kind of opinion/knowledge gap. It's easy to offer an opinion on Miley Cyrus, it's harder with regard to Syria because it's a very complicated situation.

Plus, there are more pictures in the Cyrus thread...

mirandashell · Aug 29, 2013

William Haskins said:
genuine curiosity.

Fair enough.

Gale Haut · Aug 29, 2013

I thought everyone here would know what an expletive was. :Shrug:

William Haskins said:
there's nothing "shocking" about any of it. it was observational.

The OP is partly observational. I gave you another perspective to observe it from. The OP is also rather insinuating that people who don't use the P&CE forum in a certain way are idiots.

or are we just flabby-brained idiots who can pick a kardashian out of a "where's waldo" crowd scene, but can't name the secretary of state?

robjvargas · Aug 29, 2013

Gale Haut said:
Jesus, William. I feel like you are reading a lot into it.

Posting an opinion is less belaboring when the topic isn't as heavy, and views are bouncier.

I see what you did there!

William Haskins · Aug 29, 2013

Gale Haut said:
I thought everyone here would know what an expletive was.

i felt the same way about a sense of humor.

Gale Haut said:
The OP is partly observational. I gave you another perspective to observe it from. The OP is also rather insinuating that people who don't use the P&CE forum in a certain way are idiots.

if i have failed at anything, it was by leaving the impression that i was "rather insinuating."

Gale Haut · Aug 29, 2013

William Haskins said:
if i have failed at anything, it was by leaving the impression that i was "rather insinuating."

Let me just sneak off back to my idiot camp then. Cheers to you.

raburrell · Aug 29, 2013

Simple for me - I have an interest in Syria, not so much in MC. Will agree with Rob that the Syria thread took a lot of side trips into Bush/Iraq land, but IMO if you take the long view of history they're the same event, so it hasn't bothered me. But yeah, it's definitely been a thread that would be hard to participate in if you don't have a grasp (or at least interest in) the context.

heza · Aug 29, 2013

William Haskins said:
genuine curiosity.

I actually did wonder last night, myself. The SO and I were talking about the wisdom of intervention when it occurred to me that I then went to watch the Cyrus thread... and I'd noticed it was more active than the Syrian one. So, yeah, at some point, I frowned and thought, "Seriously? We're more concerned with Miley's image than war?"

But this thread made me think, and it's not that I care less about Syria; it's that I don't feel like I'm equipped to handle the conversation. But I feel like there's so much I don't know that I'm not even sure where to start.

I wonder if a lot of other Americans feel that way.

William Haskins · Aug 29, 2013

raburrell said:
Simple for me - I have an interest in Syria, not so much in MC. Will agree with Rob that the Syria thread took a lot of side trips into Bush/Iraq land, but IMO if you take the long view of history they're the same event, so it hasn't bothered me. But yeah, it's definitely been a thread that would be hard to participate in if you don't have a grasp (or at least interest in) the context.

makes sense. and, in retrospect, i think i did this thread a disservice by focusing on this specific comparison. it just seems emblematic of two extremes of subject matter in this particular forum.

mirandashell · Aug 29, 2013

Does that matter? We talk about serious stuff, we talk about trivial stuff. Doesn't make any real difference to anything. It's not like what we say will change the world.

And making out that people are brainless for talking about MC and not about Syria is a little rude.

Cranky1 · Aug 29, 2013

I see two things happening.

First, the Syrian Conflict is two years old at this point. If you are tuned into the net or watch regular television, you have heard about the numerous atrocities committed by both sides. This latest attack crossed the president's red-line, but I don't think it surprises anyone that it has escalated.

Second, the Syrian Conflict is complex. As an individual, I don't know enough to place judgment for or against Assad. I think that he is standing between a more aggressive, extremist force out there, but there are far too many civilians dying not to care. But I am not sure. Saying that, MC's episode is easier for me to process and judge. I know what my personal tastes are and I can articulate my perspective on it.

amergina · Aug 29, 2013

I haven't read either thread. Both will depress me, for vastly different reasons.

William Haskins · Aug 29, 2013

mirandashell said:
And making out that people are brainless for talking about MC and not about Syria is a little rude.

i was exercising restraint.

Gale Haut · Aug 29, 2013

I hope you don't expect the targets of your "sense of humor" to laugh along with your jokes.

MetaThread: Cyrus vs. Assad

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