Flattening Ears that Stick Out

Fruitbat

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This is not a question for real life so don't worry, ha ha.

Say someone had a baby whose ears stuck out. If they kept the ears attached flat against the head (duct tape? I'm being serious, really), do you think they would eventually lie flat?
 
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veinglory

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As far as I know this was pretty common practice and I can see how it would often work. So long as you do it with a cap or headband rather than duct tape, I don't think it would be seen as abuse.
 

Tazlima

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There's no reason why it wouldn't work. Hold any body part in a particular shape for long enough and it will eventually stay that way (look at foot binding for an extreme, and very painful-looking example).

I'd suspect it would take a long time and would probably be painful. If I had to guess, it might have a discomfort level and timeline comparable to wearing braces.

One thing I can tell you for sure. When I was a kid I once fell asleep on my side with my ear folded forward. Why did I do this? I have no idea. Kids do weird things and it's not like it hurts to bend your ears around. Well two hours of snoozing later my ear hurt like the dickens. The pain woke me up and the darn thing was sore for two days afterward.

My other concern would be the risk of cutting off circulation. If the tape was too tight, it might cut off blood flow, resulting in necrosis. I'm not sure about the mechanics of blood flow to the ear, though, so I don't know if this would be a concern if it were merely taped flat.
 

WeaselFire

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My mom used thumbtacks on me. My dad preferred a staple gun. :)

Your question isn't uncommon, but a baby's ears will change as he/she grows anyway. Most don't end up looking like Dumbo or Prince Charles, even if they start that way. Same with oblong or misshapen heads.

Plus, it takes years to train a growing body part. Or a cat.

Jeff
 

melindamusil

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My only concern with the duct tape (and the doctors on this forum are welcome to correct me) would be that it would not allow air/oxygen to get to the skin. Kinda like if you have a bandage on for a really long time and your skin gets wrinkly - I would think that if you have that on for several months/years, it could permanently damage the skin.

Also it would hurt a LOT if you pulled off duct tape that happened to be attached to hair.

But those are all issues that I'm sure you could deal with.
 

Chekurtab

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This is not a question for real life so don't worry, ha ha.

Say someone had a baby whose ears stuck out. If they kept the ears attached flat against the head (duct tape? I'm being serious, really), do you think they would eventually lie flat?

Also, would it be painful and/or could the parents get in trouble for it?

I'm not sure what will happen first: the ears get closer to the head, or the parents get closer to losing the baby to the Child Protective Services.
 

Roxxsmom

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As far as I know, they do this in hospitals, but I think they use surgical tape or something along those lines. Think about it, pictures of people from say the 50s or 60s and before, their ears often really stuck out. It was more noticeable with boys/men, of course, as they tend to wear their hair shorter than girls. But it's been much rarer to see people with ears like my dad's were since (he got made fun of for his "elephant ears" as a boy). My mom (who gave birth to me and my brother in the 60s) said our ears were taped and that was around the time the practice became common. If they hadn't tape my and my brother's ears, we'd likely have ended up with ones like our dad :D

You would absolutely, positively not use duct tape for this, though. It is not made to be used on skin! I think it's something that should be done with a doctor's supervision.

But I found this link, which makes it sound like they don't do it routinely anymore? Does this mean that there'll be another generation of kids who get teased about their ears whenever short hair cuts are fashionable? I've heard that there are special bonnets for this purpose too.
 
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Fruitbat

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Thanks, everyone. :)
 

Roxxsmom

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My agility trainer is a sheltie person, and she uses super glue to stick her pups' ears together. Apparently, the "tulip" shaped ears of the breed standard rarely happens on its own through genetics (which makes me wonder why it's the breed standard), and most shelties end up with prick hears or loppy ears. They put the glue on sometime around three months, and it stays in place until they're maybe 7-8 months. The result is the ears end up being carried high on the head and falling over at the tip.

So maybe you could use super glue on a baby's ears too. But I'm not sure how well that would go over with the pediatricians...

I honestly don't know why anyone who isn't going to show their dog in the breed ring would bother (her shelties are from working lines and not show lines anyway). Not like dogs get teased for the way their ears look :D But one of the thing I love about border collies is that their ears seem to be "allowed" to go any which way so long as the dog can work. One of my friends has a BC whose ears come together to form a single cone when he is concentrating on something.

Human ears are boring compared to doggy ears! So many shapes and sizes compared to ours.
 
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Bufty

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Some folks with sticky out ears have very minor surgery to correct them. With others it corrects itself. Others leave them alone and don't worry about it.

I wouldn't dream of doing anything to a baby's ears.

You don't mention setting or time so I guess if your question is story related you can have your characters do whatever was accepted in that time or setting. If it's fantasy the world's your oyster.

I had sticky out ears but they've flattened by themselves. :snoopy:

This is not a question for real life so don't worry, ha ha.

Say someone had a baby whose ears stuck out. If they kept the ears attached flat against the head (duct tape? I'm being serious, really), do you think they would eventually lie flat?

Also, would it be painful and/or could the parents get in trouble for it?
 

Keyan

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This happened with an older relative of mine - we're talking of about 80+ years ago.

When she was a baby and toddler, her ears stuck out like Mickey Mouse. But when her hair was long enough, her mother braided it right over her ears, and she wore it that way through High School.

By the time I remember her, she was an adult with flat ears, and wore her hair up. I didn't quite believe her story, since her ears looked so normal. I figured it was just a tale her mother told her.

But then, looking through old photo albums, I found a toddler picture of her. Sure enough, she had very little hair and sticking out ears. Then there were school-girl pictures with heavy double-braids over her ears. And then some at twenty-something, her hair pulled back in a bun, and her ears lying flat.

So clearly it worked. Without duct tape.
 
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TellMeAStory

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Back in the 50's, I had an elementary school friend whose mother entered her in beauty pageants of some kind (yes, they really did have such things back then). My friend got a new baby brother, and when I got to see him, his ears had been scotch taped flat to his head. Guess there's no end to what an ambitious mother will do.
 

melindamusil

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But I found this link, which makes it sound like they don't do it routinely anymore? Does this mean that there'll be another generation of kids who get teased about their ears whenever short hair cuts are fashionable? I've heard that there are special bonnets for this purpose too.

I know a couple who paid for their high-school-age daughter to get plastic surgery to pin her ears back. Super sad, as her ears didn't really stick out much to begin with, but I've heard this is not an uncommon occurrence.

My agility trainer is a sheltie person, and she uses super glue to stick her pups' ears together. Apparently, the "tulip" shaped ears of the breed standard rarely happens on its own through genetics (which makes me wonder why it's the breed standard), and most shelties end up with prick hears or loppy ears. They put the glue on sometime around three months, and it stays in place until they're maybe 7-8 months. The result is the ears end up being carried high on the head and falling over at the tip.

My understanding is that ear docking, tail cropping, etc. began as a safety thing for the breed - so that when they were out hunting, the tail/ears would not get caught on anything or be grabbed by the prey, injuring the dog. Those were later incorporated into the breed standard. But I agree with you - I don't know why anyone would do that if they weren't using the dog for hunting or for show.
 

veinglory

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Ear cropping of dogs is purely cosmetic. People like how it looks. The only justification (and it is a weak one) that could be made is for tail docking not ear cropping.
 

debirlfan

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I remember one of the NASCAR drivers (Kurt Busch, I think) having surgery to pin his ears back. More aerodynamic, I guess. :)
 

Roxxsmom

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My understanding is that ear docking, tail cropping, etc. began as a safety thing for the breed - so that when they were out hunting, the tail/ears would not get caught on anything or be grabbed by the prey, injuring the dog. Those were later incorporated into the breed standard. But I agree with you - I don't know why anyone would do that if they weren't using the dog for hunting or for show.

I've heard this too, and in the states where many breed of working (and non working) dog are routinely tail docked, it's still given as an excuse.

Of course, it's sort of a non starter, because yes, cutting off a body part means you'll never injure it. The same argument could be made for little toes. We can live without them, and it sure hurts when we smash them against a coffee table leg, so why not cut the suckers off?

But there are breeds of dog that work cattle and sheep--border collies and kelpies, for instance--that are not routinely docked and where their breed standard (in the places where these breeds are bred for show as well as work) does not call for docking. Actually, Australian cattle dogs are not supposed to be docked for the show ring either, but nearly every one you see in ranch country out here is. I believe they leave the tails on in Australia, though, and they seem to do just fine there.

Aside from the pain of the procedure (which is performed on young pups without anesthetic), an issue some veterinarians and animal welfare advocates have with docking is a concern that it might increase the likelihood of knee and lower back injuries. Dogs actually use their tails, not only for communication, but for balance while making sharp turns. Some agility handlers even obtain Aussie shepherds from breeders who leave the tails on for this reason. But there is not a preponderance of data either way here. I do notice that tail-less dogs tend to use a different weave pole technique than similar-sized dogs with tails.

https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/F...sked-questions-about-canine-tail-docking.aspx

I think the largest reason many breeds are tail docked and ear cropped these days is to create a uniform appearance when genetics does not oblige. Some aussies and rotties are natural bob tails, but it's not possible to breed reliably for this trait, as repeatedly breeding natural bobs to one another will result in some pups with a tail that is so short that the end of the spinal cord is exposed.

And ears that are in between pricked an lopped come in a variety of sets and shapes, and they tend to result from the actions of multiple genes, some dominant, some recessive, and some incompletely dominant. Again, it's impossible to breed two dogs with "perfect tulip shaped ears" and get a litter where all, or even most of the pups have them.

Then there is the doberman issue, where the dog's natural ear is floppy, but the breed's creator wanted a more fierce looking dog with pricked ears. Hence the tradition of cropping and taping them. Doberman pincers with natural ears really do look different--softer and more approachable. Their reputation would probably be improved if their ears were left that way.

And don't even get me started about "battle cropping" bully breed ears with a razor blade. We all know why that is done, and it's horrible.

From this, you can probably tell I'm not in agreement with the American Kennel Club re breed standards, and I'm skeptical over whether or not working dogs are really at such risk of tail injuries that cutting the whole thing off up front is the best approach.

But I do think there's a difference between gently taping an ear that won't stand up when the other does (in a dog) or sticks out at the wrong angle (in a human or dog) and actually cutting into someone to correct what is, at worst, a mild difference in appearance. One is painless and risk free (if done with a doctor or vet's supervision), the other isn't. My mom tells me they taped my ears in the hospital when I was a baby, and it really wasn't a big deal. And for whatever reason, my ears don't look like my dad's, which means short or pulled-back hair styles are an option for me :)
 
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melindamusil

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I think the largest reason many breeds are tail docked and ear cropped these days is to create a uniform appearance when genetics does not oblige. Some aussies and rotties are natural bob tails, but it's not possible to breed reliably for this trait, as repeatedly breeding natural bobs to one another will result in some pups with a tail that is so short that the end of the spinal cord is exposed.

Agreed all around. I don't see any reason to mess with a dog's ears, tail, or anything else. But then again I also think that the majority of future dog owners should adopt from a shelter (mutts make great pets!), and those who insist on a breeder should ONLY use responsible breeders (down with puppy mills!).
 

robertsloan2

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My ears stuck out like that as a little kid and looked horrible. I got picked on for it among many other things. Grade school bullies correctly diagnosed every one of my physical disabilities in first grade, in the nastiest possible way, yet none were diagnosed until I was sixteen and nothing but the scoliosis diagnosed till I was over forty. I even got picked on for glasses when half those kids had glasses!

But I grew into them. It happens a lot with babies and children and doesn't always persist into adulthood. Though occasionally ears like that make it into the White House, which I suppose is getting the last laugh.

I didn't know they started taping them in the hospital on babies to correct it. That'd be a kindness considering how I got treated. Stopping bullying in schools would be a better solution though.
 

Roxxsmom

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I didn't know they started taping them in the hospital on babies to correct it. That'd be a kindness considering how I got treated. Stopping bullying in schools would be a better solution though.

It may have just been a regional thing, or something they did in some places for a while (in the sixties and seventies) and then stopped doing again, or only do as per the parents' request (like circumcision now, which seems a lot more painful and potentially complicating than ear taping, though the medical costs and benefits are still debated for the former). My mom always made it sound like taping our ears was something "modern" and that it was a wonderful thing that they knew to do this, as both she and my dad were ashamed of their protruding ears when they were growing up. So it's news to me that the practice is controversial or seen as abusive or as something that doesn't make a difference to whether a kid's ears will stick out later--assuming it's done with medical supervision.

But I'd also say that trying to glue or duct tape your own kid's ears back in the "real world," would be a bad idea. It could cause pain or a reaction to the glue or adhesive, and if done incorrectly, might make the issue worse. I also think that the ear taping would work better with a very young baby, which would still have soft, malleable cartilage.
 
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