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View Full Version : Where will Dick Cheney strike next?



Lantern Jack
02-16-2006, 08:29 AM
God, this feels like Whitechapel in the 1890s!

I'm guessing he's going to take out Charlton Heston next!

There's only room enough for one power-mad, gun-toting psycho-conservative in this country!

KABLAMMO!!!

My-Immortal
02-16-2006, 08:41 AM
Just a thought....

If it truly was an accident, do you feel badly for the VP at all? I mean, if you were out with a friend having a good time and something you did injured your friend severely, wouldn't you be rather upset about it?

Regardless of your political feelings toward the VP, do you feel sorry for him as a person that was involved in a difficult situation?

Just curious.

Take care all -

mkcbunny
02-16-2006, 08:55 AM
I do. I was surprised to find myself feeling bad for him today. [And I'm close to thinking he might be the anti-Christ, so that's quite a leap.] What hunter wants to shoot someone in their party? And who would wish that experience on someone? Of course I feel worse for the fellow who was shot, but being the shooter would be a horrible thing to go through.

That said, if there was, in fact, anything nefarious going on [drinking before shooting, for example] that instigated a cover-up, I will not be sympathetic to that and my opinion would change.

ETA: Obviously, if the man dies, then he's worse off. But let's say he lives and recovers well. Then I wonder if it might be worse to be the person who did the shooting. The victim has to get past the physical injury, but they have the power to forgive. The shooter will have that guilt over them for the rest of his/her life; even with forgiveness, it seems to be a more tortured existence.

My-Immortal
02-16-2006, 09:01 AM
I do. I was surprised to find myself feeling bad for him today. [And I'm close to thinking he might be the anti-Christ, so that's quite a leap.] What hunter wants to shoot someone in their party? And who would wish that experience on someone? Of course I feel worse for the fellow who was shot, but being the shooter would be a horrible thing to go through.

That said, if there was, in fact, anything nefarious going on [drinking before shooting, for example] that instigated a cover-up, I will not be sympathetic to that and my opinion would change.

I agree. I hope it was nothing more than an unfortunate accident and that all persons concerned recover and are able to put the event behind them.

Take care all -

Puddle Jumper
02-16-2006, 09:18 AM
Of course the media was extremely eager to jump all over it. They critisize because news of the event did not come out until 21 hours after it happened. My thought is - hey, it's less than a day after it happened. It hadn't even been 24 hours. I would imagine they were more concentrated on the guy who got shot and making sure he was alright than thinking of ways to please the media. Or perhaps trying to find the right way to inform the media.

I know someone who's a hunter and he's rather critical of Cheney saying he would have never made a mistake like that. If a person came into his sight range he wouldn't pull the trigger.

My-Immortal
02-16-2006, 09:27 AM
Anyone ever see the movie Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World (or something like that) with Russell Crowe? There is a scene in there were a guy on the ship is targeting a bird and as it swoops over the bow, the man follows the flight path with his gun. He's focused on the bird and as he turns to follow the bird's movement, he fires....right into the ship's doctor.

I have no extra info in regards to this situation, but I would 'assume' that while hunting birds that a person would tend to have to move their gun to keep the weapon targeted on their intended prey. I would also 'assume' that if a person were to accidentally step into the line of fire at the exact moment that the hunter pulls the trigger there would be little the hunter could do about it....

Again, I hope for everyone's sake, it was an accident...that the wounded person recovers....and that the VP is able to somehow put this unfortunate incident behind him.

Take care all -

Lantern Jack
02-16-2006, 12:22 PM
Anyone ever see the movie Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World (or something like that) with Russell Crowe? There is a scene in there were a guy on the ship is targeting a bird and as it swoops over the bow, the man follows the flight path with his gun. He's focused on the bird and as he turns to follow the bird's movement, he fires....right into the ship's doctor.

I have no extra info in regards to this situation, but I would 'assume' that while hunting birds that a person would tend to have to move their gun to keep the weapon targeted on their intended prey. I would also 'assume' that if a person were to accidentally step into the line of fire at the exact moment that the hunter pulls the trigger there would be little the hunter could do about it....

Again, I hope for everyone's sake, it was an accident...that the wounded person recovers....and that the VP is able to somehow put this unfortunate incident behind him.

Take care all -

There's a tremendous difference between a marine, a crack marksman, shooting a person with a minie ball (muskets, muzzle-loaders, are EXTREMELY hard to aim properly), and some geezer spraying an even more antiquated geezer with birdshot. The purpose of birdshot is that it makes it much easier to take down a flying, swooping, looping target, because you're not launching one bullet (like with a musket), but a whole flock of them. For that very reason, the high possibility of damage to those on the periphery of the target (plus the fact that you can't eat an animal shot full of birdshot, so it's pretty much a for-trophies missile), it should be outlawed, especially in the hands of myopic senior citizens. But that's a whole other debate.

mdin
02-16-2006, 12:26 PM
I thought this (http://www.emagazine.com/view/?3096) was an interesting article on the whole thing.

Shadow_Ferret
02-16-2006, 04:57 PM
Just a thought....

If it truly was an accident, do you feel badly for the VP at all? I mean, if you were out with a friend having a good time and something you did injured your friend severely, wouldn't you be rather upset about it?

Regardless of your political feelings toward the VP, do you feel sorry for him as a person that was involved in a difficult situation?

Just curious.

Take care all -

You're bringing us down man! Stop bringing humanity into the equation! :tongue

DaveKuzminski
02-16-2006, 05:04 PM
No, I don't feel sorry for the VP. Why? Because men in power tend to have a psyche that doesn't include emotional concern for other people. Otherwise, they wouldn't be capable of manipulating other people well enough to get into power. When it comes to emotion, people like Cheney mostly feel sorry for themselves, not others.

My-Immortal
02-16-2006, 05:47 PM
No, I don't feel sorry for the VP. Why? Because men in power tend to have a psyche that doesn't include emotional concern for other people. Otherwise, they wouldn't be capable of manipulating other people well enough to get into power. When it comes to emotion, people like Cheney mostly feel sorry for themselves, not others.

From your own statement should we conclude that you too are a man of power? ;)

My-Immortal
02-16-2006, 05:52 PM
There's a tremendous difference between a marine, a crack marksman, shooting a person with a minie ball (muskets, muzzle-loaders, are EXTREMELY hard to aim properly), and some geezer spraying an even more antiquated geezer with birdshot. The purpose of birdshot is that it makes it much easier to take down a flying, swooping, looping target, because you're not launching one bullet (like with a musket), but a whole flock of them. For that very reason, the high possibility of damage to those on the periphery of the target (plus the fact that you can't eat an animal shot full of birdshot, so it's pretty much a for-trophies missile), it should be outlawed, especially in the hands of myopic senior citizens. But that's a whole other debate.

In a way, you strengthened my point...(I think?).

The VP didn't even have to "aim" at the man he hit (just his general direction)....the man was perhaps just in the 'wrong place at the wrong time'.

Regardless, as I've stated, (and no one else MUST feel this way either), if it was truly an accident, then I feel sorry for all parties involved.

Take care all -

aadams73
02-16-2006, 06:04 PM
No, I don't feel sorry for the VP. Why? Because men in power tend to have a psyche that doesn't include emotional concern for other people. Otherwise, they wouldn't be capable of manipulating other people well enough to get into power. When it comes to emotion, people like Cheney mostly feel sorry for themselves, not others.

I agree completely. And I'd like to add that since he is such a crack shot, we ought to send the VP on the next transport to Iraq.

Shadow_Ferret
02-16-2006, 06:13 PM
No, I don't feel sorry for the VP. Why? Because men in power tend to have a psyche that doesn't include emotional concern for other people. Otherwise, they wouldn't be capable of manipulating other people well enough to get into power. When it comes to emotion, people like Cheney mostly feel sorry for themselves, not others.

That's a weird thought. Men in power don't have emotions? How do you know what emotional concern Cheney showed when he realized he shot his companion? How do you know what Cheney feels knowing that the buckshot is lodged in this guy's heart and gave him a coronary?

Unless you actually know Cheney, I don't think you can make such broad blanket prejudicial statements.

Lantern Jack
02-16-2006, 06:31 PM
That's a weird thought. Men in power don't have emotions? How do you know what emotional concern Cheney showed when he realized he shot his companion? How do you know what Cheney feels knowing that the buckshot is lodged in this guy's heart and gave him a coronary?

Unless you actually know Cheney, I don't think you can make such broad blanket prejudicial statements.

Well, the guy did wait 21 hours before he disclosed news of the incident, probably to give himself an ample headstart (old guys don't run too fast, particularly from bloodthirsty mobs).

Lantern Jack
02-16-2006, 06:35 PM
Oh, and let's be honest here, he shot a lawyer, for crying out loud! Doesn't anybody read James Ellroy anymore? It's not like Cheney plugged a creature of moral conscience here. Lawyers exist just below jellies, in my book. Jellies don't have brains or complete digestive tracts, but at least they're pretty, especially when they're glowing in the dark!

Shadow_Ferret
02-16-2006, 06:37 PM
I'm sure they didn't just sit at some guys house while his friend was bleeding. I'm pretty sure they got the guy to a hospital. Disclosing it to the news is really of secondary importance as far as I'm concerned.


I'm not defending any of this. Just arguing with you guys. :tongue

William Haskins
02-16-2006, 06:44 PM
my favorite tidbit from this day in hypocrisy:

sen. harry reid (minority leader, mind you, not some rank and file junior senator) comes out yesterday and takes cheney to task for not going to the media for 21 hours.

and yet, last august, reid himself had a stroke and his minions didn't release the news to the media for 3 days.

robeiae
02-16-2006, 06:46 PM
That's completely different.

henriette
02-16-2006, 06:46 PM
i don't feel sorry for cheney. in fact, i don't feel sorry for any of them, except the old man who's last days on earth will be spent recovering from this ridiculous accident.

why a bunch of rich men need to hunt anything is beyond my comprehension. they have the best chefs and most delectable food served to them on a daily basis. they are not shooting quail for survival. there is NO NEED for anyone of that kind of status to be out in a field shooting at helpless quails. there are shooting ranges and video games for that kind of entertainment.

stupid is as stupid does.

Shadow_Ferret
02-16-2006, 07:01 PM
Are you saying that only the poor should hunt because they are doing it for food?

Hunting is a sport, not a means to sustanence.

aadams73
02-16-2006, 07:57 PM
Hunting is not a sport. And those who treat is as such...well, you really don't want me to get started on what I think of them :)

eldragon
02-16-2006, 08:09 PM
why a bunch of rich men need to hunt anything is beyond my comprehension. they have the best chefs and most delectable food served to them on a daily basis. they are not shooting quail for survival. there is NO NEED for anyone of that kind of status to be out in a field shooting at helpless quails. there are shooting ranges and video games for that kind of entertainment.

stupid is as stupid does.


HERE HERE!

(Or, hear hear.)

Either way ...I agree.

Shadow_Ferret
02-16-2006, 08:16 PM
Hunting is not a sport.

In your opinion. They are called sportsmen. :tongue

aadams73
02-16-2006, 08:30 PM
In your opinion. They are called sportsmen. :tongue

*I* don't call them sportsmen. I don't even call them men.

Shadow_Ferret
02-16-2006, 08:32 PM
*I* don't call them sportsmen. I don't even call them men.
No. I suppose not.

Lantern Jack
02-16-2006, 08:48 PM
Okay, judgmental city folk, our word lesson for the day: personification: the attributing of human feelings and intelligence to things that don't possess it. A quail lacks the ability to regard itself abstractly, to philosophize, to convey any consciousness of self. Quail, in the words of Geoffrey Rush's Sade, "Eat, sleep, ****, **** and die." That's it. For those of you under the grossly mistaken impression that animals are majestic and noble and possess some hidden grace and compassion, allow me to repeat a quote I used from a recent thread of mine (this is from The Woman and the Ape, by Peter Hoeg:

"You see, the jaguar goes through its life alone. Then one day it picks up a scent and follows it, driven by an innate biological urge it cannot understand. It follows this scent and all of a sudden it comes face to face with another big cat. It does not see it as a reflection of itself, because it has no concept of self. It sees it as a mortal threat. It wants to run---both animals want to run---but they cannot. They are pinned to the spot by a set of genetic stocks. She turns her back to him, prostrates herself, he jumps on top of her and digs his teeth into her neck. And do you know why? A sign of passion, perhaps? Of love? I'll tell you why. It is for a reason so glaringly obvious that even the zoologists could not miss it. It is because, if he did not hold her down, the female---terrified out of her wits---would turn on him and kill him. Then he couples with her. And just as he pulls out of her, just as he relinquishes his grip, all she-jaguars, all she-cheetahs, all she-tigers, all she-cats the world over make the same instinctive move. And do you know what that is? Do you know how they show their appreciation for this coupling? They stretch back their necks and swivel their heads around. And then they try to see whether they can get away with ripping his carotid arteries with their eye teeth."

The two women circled around one another. The jaguar and Priscilla followed them with their eyes.

"None of you ever asked a jaguar," said Madelene. "It is quite possible to look as though you're suffering even when you're enjoying yourself."

"Every he-cat's penis is equipped with a number of barbs. As it withdraws, these barbs tear into the she-cat's flesh. The pain of this triggers ovulation. And that---through pain---is how nature guarantees possible likelihood of fertilization and the continuation of the species."

Lantern Jack
02-16-2006, 08:54 PM
*I* don't call them sportsmen. I don't even call them men.

And by the by, my father is a hunter. All my uncles are hunters. At least 5 different mentors I've had. My brother. Me. At least half of my old friends. All hunters.

Celia Cyanide
02-16-2006, 09:00 PM
why a bunch of rich men need to hunt anything is beyond my comprehension. they have the best chefs and most delectable food served to them on a daily basis. they are not shooting quail for survival. there is NO NEED for anyone of that kind of status to be out in a field shooting at helpless quails. there are shooting ranges and video games for that kind of entertainment.

No, THEY are not going to starve if they don't hunt. But if someone is going to eat it, someone else has to kill it. People who really are poor enough to starve cannot afford hunting rifles, or the necessary tools to prepare and cook it. Hunting is far more humane than factory farming, and as long they are hunting animals that are eaten, I cannot bring myself to be against it. Even though I would be sick at the thought of doing it myself, as long as people are starving to death, meat is still food.

I think Cheney should be ashamed of himself because I do have respect for hunters, and I appreciate how careful they are required to be.

Lantern Jack
02-16-2006, 09:11 PM
No, THEY are not going to starve if they don't hunt. But if someone is going to eat it, someone else has to kill it. People who really are poor enough to starve cannot afford hunting rifles, or the necessary tools to prepare and cook it. Hunting is far more humane than factory farming, and as long they are hunting animals that are eaten, I cannot bring myself to be against it. Even though I would be sick at the thought of doing it myself, as long as people are starving to death, meat is still food.

I think Cheney should be ashamed of himself because I do have respect for hunters, and I appreciate how careful they are required to be.

Oh, Cel, you're gorgeous. I want to kiss you Frenchily! Well, more than usual!

mkcbunny
02-16-2006, 10:27 PM
my favorite tidbit from this day in hypocrisy:

sen. harry reid (minority leader, mind you, not some rank and file junior senator) comes out yesterday and takes cheney to task for not going to the media for 21 hours.

and yet, last august, reid himself had a stroke and his minions didn't release the news to the media for 3 days.

That's completely different.
I agree with Rob [gasp]. It's one thing to withold news of one's own medical condition. It's another to withold news of injuring another party; a shooting might involve negligent, or even criminal behavior. Reid didn't shoot someone else; he had a stroke.

William Haskins
02-16-2006, 10:31 PM
it was reported to authorities within an hour, just not to the media.

mkcbunny
02-16-2006, 10:36 PM
it was reported to authorities within an hour, just not to the media.
I should have been clearer that I meant what Reid did wasn't wrong. Hypothetically, a shooting [whether by Cheney or anyone] should be reported right away, but that a stroke has leeway.

William Haskins
02-16-2006, 10:41 PM
a potentially serious medical condition of a national party leader? hmmm..

Unique
02-16-2006, 10:44 PM
Half of them act like they've had strokes already. He probably figured we'd never notice.

mkcbunny
02-16-2006, 10:50 PM
a potentially serious medical condition of a national party leader? hmmm..
I'm not saying it should be kept in the can forever. You compared it to a shooting incident; I think that where there's a victim and a potential crime, that does require more immediate notification than someone's own medical news. I would not have put them into the same category.

For anyone who's interested, here's the Timeline of the Shooting (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/16/politics/16tock.html?_r=1&oref=slogin). The timeline seems reasonable to me, especially regarding family notification.

This quote does seem contradictory, though:
They broke at 1 p.m. for a picnic lunch Mr. Cheney said he had had one beer but "nobody was drinking, nobody was under the influence"

Royale With Cheese
02-16-2006, 10:59 PM
If Al Gore accidently shot a guy while hunting would you feel sorry for him?

Unique
02-16-2006, 11:00 PM
He had one beer - but he didn't drink it....is that like 'I didn't inhale'?

Royale With Cheese
02-16-2006, 11:01 PM
He had one beer - but he didn't drink it....is that like 'I didn't inhale'?

Almost, but the "I didn't inhale" thing was way more funny. :D

mkcbunny
02-16-2006, 11:01 PM
If Al Gore accidently shot a guy while hunting would you feel sorry for him?
I would feel sorry for anyone who accidentally shot someone, as previously stated.

travNastee
02-16-2006, 11:03 PM
Well, the guy did wait 21 hours before he disclosed news of the incident...

Um...what was he supposed to do? Get on his cell phone and call the f***in' news media to bring their cameras and vans out there and announce it while they are wheelin' the man into the ambulance?

Susie
02-16-2006, 11:07 PM
I love the way Cheney said it was his worst day ever. I don't think it was too good a day for Whittington either!

My-Immortal
02-17-2006, 01:57 AM
If Al Gore accidently shot a guy while hunting would you feel sorry for him?

Yes. Regardless of what I may or may not think of the man's politics, I would. I don't understand why that seems so strange to some of you. Are your political leanings so strong left or right that you cannot for a moment consider them as a human being with human feelings and concerns? Are you incapable of seperating your political feelings toward a person and care that they may be suffering?

I suppose if that is how you feel, a silly post isn't going to change your mind....but then, using your own logic, why should any of these politicians that hold differing political beliefs than you care if you suffer while they are in power? I mean, you're basically stating that unless a man believes along the same political lines as you, you will not feel any sympathies toward him....right?

Just a thought....

Royale With Cheese
02-17-2006, 07:54 PM
Yes. Regardless of what I may or may not think of the man's politics, I would. I don't understand why that seems so strange to some of you. Are your political leanings so strong left or right that you cannot for a moment consider them as a human being with human feelings and concerns? Are you incapable of seperating your political feelings toward a person and care that they may be suffering?

I suppose if that is how you feel, a silly post isn't going to change your mind....but then, using your own logic, why should any of these politicians that hold differing political beliefs than you care if you suffer while they are in power? I mean, you're basically stating that unless a man believes along the same political lines as you, you will not feel any sympathies toward him....right?

Just a thought....

I could care less about the entire thing. I just wanted to know if this is just another bashing of the current administration. I wanted to see if they were looking at this as "a man accidently shot another man while hunting" (which happens almost every day during deer gun season btw) or is everyone looking at it as "The devilish Cheney of the evil Bush administration conspires to off someone and tries to cover it up as a hunting accident."

Just wondering. I'm totaly on the fence on this one.

Sheryl Nantus
02-17-2006, 08:36 PM
I think it's bashing.

Around here there's always awful hunting accidents every year - this past deer season a father fatally shot his own son. Awful, horrible accidents.

And yet because the press corps didn't have ONE single reporter sitting around with the VP's posse it's become a major event. Still sounds to me like the press is upset that something happened off their radar, thus they must make it into an event.

Unfortunately, hunting accidents happen all the time. Thank God no one died this time, but it's hardly the earthshaking event the media's making it out to be.

you Americans are still the strangest people I've met so far.

:)

Royale With Cheese
02-17-2006, 08:43 PM
Strange, perhaps.

Thankfuly we aren't to the point of beating up Ronald McDonald or burning down a Burger King because of a cartoon. :D

SC Harrison
02-17-2006, 09:15 PM
it was reported to authorities within an hour, just not to the media.

I just listened to a guy on NPR state (supposedly from an AP article) that shortly after the shooting, a deputy came by to offer his assistance, and he was told there was no problem and sent on his way. A few hours later a Secret Service agent called the Sheriff's dept. to report a hunting accident, and said they (the Sheriff's dept.) could come by the next day to talk about it.

Accidental shooting or not, this is just one more example of the "Above The Law" mentality of this administration. That deputy should have been told the truth on the spot. When the Sheriff realised one of his men had been lied to (or not told the truth, whatever), he should have locked that ranch down tight, and performed a criminal investigation. He probably would have concluded it was an accident, but that's his job to decide. He was not allowed to do his job, and he failed to raise hell about it.

The story is not really about the shooting itself, it's about how some people can do things freely that others cannot. Wrong is wrong, no matter who is the subject.

Sheryl Nantus
02-17-2006, 09:26 PM
one only wishes the media had been that enthusiastic when Teddy K. let a woman drown in his car...

*shakes head*

Jcomp
02-17-2006, 09:33 PM
Can't front, I'm no friend of this administration, but taking Cheney to task for accidentally shooting a fellow hunter is pretty f*cking weak. There's plenty of other stuff to take this cat to task for.

Had he accidentally shot some dude minding his own business, birdwatching in the woods or something, that might be different. And potentially funnier...

DaveKuzminski
02-17-2006, 10:05 PM
Accidental shooting or not, this is just one more example of the "Above The Law" mentality of this administration. That deputy should have been told the truth on the spot. When the Sheriff realised one of his men had been lied to (or not told the truth, whatever), he should have locked that ranch down tight, and performed a criminal investigation. He probably would have concluded it was an accident, but that's his job to decide. He was not allowed to do his job, and he failed to raise hell about it.

While I agree with you in spirit, I suspect there are some laws on the books that protect the nation's leaders from simple arrest even for an offense like that. Of course, that could lead to some serious problems if you take it to an extreme. For instance, a deputy spots a political leader deliberately shooting down one individual and taking aim at another. Does the deputy draw and shoot down the leader? Who does the Secret Service support? Do they protect the leader or assist the deputy? By the way, the published news report I read stated that the deputy went to gather information only to learn that an interview had already been scheduled by the sheriff for the following morning.

Another post mentions that Kennedy received less investigation than Cheney. Actually, I recall it was more intensive. You just didn't have as many publicly published viewpoints available because the Internet wasn't around then.

My-Immortal
02-18-2006, 01:31 AM
The man shot by the VP was released from the hospital earlier today.

mdin
02-18-2006, 02:29 AM
one only wishes the media had been that enthusiastic when Teddy K. let a woman drown in his car...

*shakes head*

I hope you're kidding.

Ted Kennedy is an *** who probably should've gone to prison over that whole thing. However, that happened in 1969. And the furor that surrounded that makes this Cheney thing look like a slow news day. And Kennedy wasn't vice president.

eldragon
02-18-2006, 02:46 AM
1969? Boy, that's been awhile.

Can't we talk dirt on a politician more recent?

How about Nixon?
Sure, he's dead, but it's newer than 1969.

September skies
02-18-2006, 04:59 AM
I read in the news about this other hunter that also shot another hunter thinking that his elbow was a squirrel.....the real question is....why the heck was he trying to shoot a squirrel? That's just wrong. It's not like he was making squirrel pie.