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Beta Reader and/or writing partner needed for my Autobiography

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vickinicole

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Genre: Autobiography/Memoir
- Category: some adult themes
- Word count: 29,649 k
- What kind of feedback you're looking for: I'm looking for a line by line edit as well as help taking my story from "telling" to "showing". I have been given advice that it needs to be more in a story format and I just don't know how to do that.

- The book is called "Autobiography of a Muslim Porn Star", it is my life story.

- I can read other memoir/autobiography or non fiction but I don't feel qualified to give much of a edit. I am very inexperienced with critiqueing and find it difficult to describe what I like or don't like about something.
 

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Genre: Autobiography/Memoir
- Category: some adult themes
- Word count: 29,649 k
- What kind of feedback you're looking for: I'm looking for a line by line edit as well as help taking my story from "telling" to "showing". I have been given advice that it needs to be more in a story format and I just don't know how to do that.

- The book is called "Autobiography of a Muslim Porn Star", it is my life story.

- I can read other memoir/autobiography or non fiction but I don't feel qualified to give much of a edit. I am very inexperienced with critiqueing and find it difficult to describe what I like or don't like about something.

Hi, vickinicole, and welcome.

May I suggest you read the "Please Read Before Posting" thread in this forum? Not just the first post, but the whole thread (it's short; don't worry).

I say this because you're a new member who is, unfortunately, asking a great deal from the AW community without offering anything in return. The thread will give you some ideas about how to get the help you need while contributing to the community as a whole.
 

vickinicole

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I read the whole thread along with the other Stickies before I posted here. In return I'm offering to beta-read other autobiographies or memoirs, but with the qualifier that I am not good at it.
 

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I'm looking for a line by line edit as well as help taking my story from "telling" to "showing". I have been given advice that it needs to be more in a story format and I just don't know how to do that.

You were given some advice on show v tell on another forum :). There is also vasts amount of posts on here regard show and tell. You could try a search in "Basic Questions".
 

vickinicole

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The problem with the advice is I don't believe you can be "taught" how to show instead of tell. I write the way I write. This is why I am asking for a cowriter. I believe I am incapable of doing it.
 

cornflake

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The problem with the advice is I don't believe you can be "taught" how to show instead of tell. I write the way I write. This is why I am asking for a cowriter. I believe I am incapable of doing it.

Well, way to just kind of settle there.

I don't quite understand the cowriter thing though - your book is done, no? You want various editing it seems, not a cowriter.
 

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The problem with the advice is I don't believe you can be "taught" how to show instead of tell. I write the way I write. This is why I am asking for a cowriter. I believe I am incapable of doing it.

Is your interest telling your personal life story, but not really mastering the craft of writing? Because those can be two different goals.
 
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vickinicole

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Yes I am interested in telling my story, not mastering the craft of writing. I am seeking a ghostwriter or co writer. I have finished the book as far as I can, now I need someone who can "show" instead of "tell" and turn it into a story.

I am not in the financial position to be able to pay someone but maybe we can work out a deal to split the profits of the sale of the book.


Some of the people whose books I have helped them with for pay sounded like this, if I read you right. Is your interest telling your personal life story, but not really mastering the craft of writing? Because those can be two different goals.

If so, another choice is to look for someone who will work with you on it for pay. In depth work on a book that needs a lot of help is a lot of work. If it is basically a one-way thing (since you say you are not good at critiquing or giving your opinions), it's hard to find someone qualified who will put in a free forty hour week or more for a stranger.

Anyway, just a thought, if I even understood you correctly. If you decide to go this route, please be sure to check the person out as thoroughly as possible, and also have them do a few pages for a few bucks before you commit to more (btw, I'm not putting in an ad for myself because I don't want any jobs right now). Or just keep asking for beta readers and maybe you will get lucky. :)

Good luck!
 

vickinicole

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The book is done BUT now I need a ghostwriter or co-writer to turn it into a story and from the advice I've been given; "show" instead of "tell".

Well, way to just kind of settle there.

I don't quite understand the cowriter thing though - your book is done, no? You want various editing it seems, not a cowriter.
 

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The problem with the advice is I don't believe you can be "taught" how to show instead of tell. I write the way I write.

You learned to write, yes? Show and tell is just another step in the learning process: of course you can be taught. But you have to be prepared to learn, and put the time in with learning.

Cornflake, (from details on another site) Vickie is after someone to expand the details of what she's written already. ;)

Vicki, co-writing isn't you giving the person the details and them going off to write the story for you, with you then giving all the all-clear on the finished product. Mostly you'll agree on a story plan and write alternative chapters etc.

And working with an editor, they will pinpoint a problem for you, but you will be expected to fix it (if you feel it's a problem). Editors aren't there to re-write and fix the problems for you; that's the writer's job.

Ghostwriting, yes. But that will be expensive.

:)
 

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Yes I am interested in telling my story, not mastering the craft of writing. I am seeking a ghostwriter or co writer. I have finished the book as far as I can, now I need someone who can "show" instead of "tell" and turn it into a story.

I am not in the financial position to be able to pay someone but maybe we can work out a deal to split the profits of the sale of the book.

So, you want:

(1) A ghostwriter (their name would not appear on it), or co-writer (their name would appear on it along with yours), starting with the draft you have written.

And~

(2) Someone who will work for a share of the profits (and accept getting nothing if there are no profits).

Is that right?

You might find someone to work with you on spec and for the experience, if you'd be happy with a writer with some experience and published work but not tons of it. They might want their name on the book along with yours, though (co-writer).

How to find the right person is trickier. Maybe check the AW library and see who has written a memoir or biography (or other). Read some of it, see what you think, then start asking people? I don't know, just an idea there. Or maybe just wait and see if you get any offers to check out from this thread. Good luck with it. :)
 
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vickinicole

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Ahh thank you for explaining the difference then. So I guess a ghostwriter is what I need then. Can I find a ghostwriter on this website? Would they be willing to take part of the back end of the book instead of payment up front?

You learned to write, yes? Show and tell is just another step in the learning process: of course you can be taught. But you have to be prepared to learn, and put the time in with learning.

Cornflake, (from details on another site) Vickie is after someone to expand the details of what she's written already. ;)

Vicki, co-writing isn't you giving the person the details and them going off to write the story for you, with you then giving all the all-clear on the finished product. Mostly you'll agree on a story plan and write alternative chapters etc.

And working with an editor, they will pinpoint a problem for you, but you will be expected to fix it (if you feel it's a problem). Editors aren't there to re-write and fix the problems for you; that's the writer's job.

Ghostwriting, yes. But that will be expensive.

:)
 

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The problem with the advice is I don't believe you can be "taught" how to show instead of tell. I write the way I write. This is why I am asking for a cowriter. I believe I am incapable of doing it.

People absolutely can be taught the difference between show and tell, and they can also be taught how to utilise that knowledge in their work.

That doesn't mean they'll definitely be good at it, but it is a skill which can be learned.

Yes I am interested in telling my story, not mastering the craft of writing. I am seeking a ghostwriter or co writer. I have finished the book as far as I can, now I need someone who can "show" instead of "tell" and turn it into a story.

I am not in the financial position to be able to pay someone but maybe we can work out a deal to split the profits of the sale of the book.

I suspect you're misinformed about how much money can be made from books.

Although hundreds of thousands of new books are written every year, very few of them ever make it to publication: probably less than one in every few hundred or thousand.

Of the few which do end up being published, very few of them make a significant amount of money for their authors: advances of less than $10,000 are common, and as only about 30% of books ever make more than their advance, that $10k is all their writers ever see. If they have an agent, 15% of that money goes to their agent so they get even less.

Do you think that a good ghostwriter is going to want to spend several months working with you for the hope of earning $4,250 if you're ever lucky enough to sell your book? Why would they when they could write their own books, and get to keep all the money they earn?

I'm sorry, but I really don't think this is going to happen for you in the way that you seem to hope it will.

Ahh thank you for explaining the difference then. So I guess a ghostwriter is what I need then. Can I find a ghostwriter on this website? Would they be willing to take part of the back end of the book instead of payment up front?

There are so many things stacked up against you, I'm afraid.

Any ghostwriter who is willing to work for you right now, on the basis that you'll pay them if your work ever makes a profit, is probably either out to cheat you out of your money or your book, or doesn't know what he or she is doing.

I've ghostwritten several books and in every case the book concerned had a publication contract prior to my getting involved.

Your book is very unlikely to get such a contract from a reputable publisher. It's far too short (80k is a more usual length), and with all due respect to you, you're probably not well-known enough to interest a publisher.

Of course, it could just be that I haven't recognised who you are, and am unaware of the brilliant story you have to tell. If you are famous, notorious, or an acknowledged expert in your field then you're far more likely to get a publisher interested in your memoirs: but if that is the case, you need to find yourself a good literary agent who will find you a publisher, and your publisher will then introduce you to a good ghost who will spend several months interviewing you and writing your book.

Publishing is a complex business and there are busloads of people eager to part you from your money for little reward. Don't be tempted into working with a ghostwriter without having that contract in place; don't pay anyone upfront for their ghostwriting or agenting skills, the introductions they claim they can make for you, or for anything else. Please be careful.
 

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I am known in the porn industry. There are several books about the adult industry that have done very well including one I can think of that was on the NY Times best sellers list. My story is unique and I believe it would do very well and most people who have read it say the same thing.

I could go directly to finding a agent but I want to have someone work on the story and "showing" aspect of it before I do that.

Of course, it could just be that I haven't recognised who you are, and am unaware of the brilliant story you have to tell. If you are famous, notorious, or an acknowledged expert in your field then you're far more likely to get a publisher interested in your memoirs: but if that is the case, you need to find yourself a good literary agent who will find you a publisher, and your publisher will then introduce you to a good ghost who will spend several months interviewing you and writing your book.

.
 

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I don't know any professionals who work for free.

You'll either have to pay someone a going rate to ghostwrite your book (which is what you seem to want - you want a full-length, trade-publishable thing, it seems) or work up a proposal to go hunting for an agent or publisher who will want to back the book and will get a ghostwriter for you.
 

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I am known in the porn industry.

Are you so well-known that you are also recognisable outside that industry? If so, then your story might well interest a good trade publisher. If not--then it's very unlikely to.

There are several books about the adult industry that have done very well including one I can think of that was on the NY Times best sellers list.

You can think of several books in this genre which did well, including one which hit the NYT best-seller list. Could you name that one, please? It would give me a better idea of the market you're looking at.

You might like to search Amazon for books in this genre and see how many have been published in this area in the last few years, so that you can compare that with the "several books" you've seen do well.

My story is unique and I believe it would do very well and most people who have read it say the same thing.

Of course your story is unique! Everyone's autobiography is. But you're not experienced enough in publishing to know if it would do well or not, and unless the people who agree with you on this point are publishing professionals they're unlikely to understand the market properly either.

I could go directly to finding a agent but I want to have someone work on the story and "showing" aspect of it before I do that.

If you find someone to do this work for you for free, or for payment when and if the work is published, you are going to work either with incompetent, inexperienced writers, or you are going to find yourself working with scammers and cheats. Neither of these groups are likely to do a good enough job to get your work published.

If you find someone to do this work for you who expects to be paid upfront, you have no guarantee that they'll do a good enough job; and you will still be unlikely to sell your book, so you'll be very unlikely to ever recoup the cost of that help.

Or you could look for an agent and try to do things the right way round, hope you'll end up with an experienced and skilled professional to guide you, and not spend any money out at all.

Take your pick.
 

vickinicole

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I don't believe I have to be that well known outside of the industry. Tell-All's in general do well in the market. I can name several tell-all books, by unknown authors, that did very well (or at least got the authors more than a $10,000 advance) just because it dealt with sleeping with celebrities.
1. Confessions of a video vixen by Karinne Steffans
2. Underneath It All by Erica Mena
3. Game Over by Winter Ramos

Mine is partially a tell all since I do expose celebrities that I and my friends have slept with in my book.

How to Make Love Like a Porn Star: A Cautionary Tale, spent six weeks on The New York Times Best Seller list

And I believe I am determined and scrupulous enough to find a competent person to do the work for me in exchange for back end. It's not impossible to find someone who is good who is also looking to prove themselves for the experience. People told me I couldn't get a professional studio and producer to make quality music for my artist for free in exchange for a percentage of sales. They were wrong. I love proving people wrong. I do it all the time. I've written about it in my book.

Are you so well-known that you are also recognisable outside that industry? If so, then your story might well interest a good trade publisher. If not--then it's very unlikely to.



You can think of several books in this genre which did well, including one which hit the NYT best-seller list. Could you name that one, please? It would give me a better idea of the market you're looking at.

You might like to search Amazon for books in this genre and see how many have been published in this area in the last few years, so that you can compare that with the "several books" you've seen do well.



Of course your story is unique! Everyone's autobiography is. But you're not experienced enough in publishing to know if it would do well or not, and unless the people who agree with you on this point are publishing professionals they're unlikely to understand the market properly either.



If you find someone to do this work for you for free, or for payment when and if the work is published, you are going to work either with incompetent, inexperienced writers, or you are going to find yourself working with scammers and cheats. Neither of these groups are likely to do a good enough job to get your work published.

If you find someone to do this work for you who expects to be paid upfront, you have no guarantee that they'll do a good enough job; and you will still be unlikely to sell your book, so you'll be very unlikely to ever recoup the cost of that help.

Or you could look for an agent and try to do things the right way round, hope you'll end up with an experienced and skilled professional to guide you, and not spend any money out at all.

Take your pick.
 

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I don't believe I have to be that well known outside of the industry.

My nieces believe in the tooth fairy.

Tell-All's in general do well in the market. I can name several tell-all books, by unknown authors, that did very well (or at least got the authors more than a $10,000 advance) just because it dealt with sleeping with celebrities.

An advance of $10,000 isn't doing "very well": it's on the low end of what I'd expect to be paid, but my point in suggesting that figure was that if you have to split it between you and your ghost, you're each going to get even less.

For every book of this type that's sold and done well, I bet there are hundreds more which either sold and failed or didn't ever sell. Bearing in mind what little you've told us about your book--the length, for example--I am very concerned that your book will fall into this category and you'll get tied to a deal which will end up coming back to bite you.


Your link leads to a Google search and near the top of that search are several articles and YouTube clips which claim that Ms Steffans lied in her books in order to sensationalise them and sell more copies. Yep, that'll work. For a while.

It could also mean that she'd have to return all the monies paid to her for her "true" autobiography. Do you really want to be in that position?

2. Underneath It All by Erica Mena

This one looks self-published to me, and in need of a lot of work. I might be wrong. And Ms Mena is or was in a successful TV show, I think, which gives her a platform which you don't yet have.


Another person from that same TV show. Another person with a marketing platform that you don't have. Unless you too were in that show!

Mine is partially a tell all since I do expose celebrities that I and my friends have slept with in my book.

How tasteful.


Ms Jameson did have a bit more behind her than a brief career in porn, though.

And I believe I am determined and scrupulous enough to find a competent person to do the work for me in exchange for back end. It's not impossible to find someone who is good who is also looking to prove themselves for the experience.

A ghost who is good and who hopes that working with you will help them prove themselves somehow, and get them experience, isn't going to help you sell your book. Publishers usually want track records here.

I really hope you manage to find the right person to help you through this particular maze. But I also hope you'll bear my warnings in mind, and take care of yourself.

People told me I couldn't get a professional studio and producer to make quality music for my artist for free in exchange for a percentage of sales. They were wrong. I love proving people wrong. I do it all the time. I've written about it in my book.

It's obvious you don't want to pay attention to the advice that you asked for, so go and do whatever you want with your book. And don't forget to come back in a year or two and tell us all what happened.

I hope you prove me wrong, I really do.
 
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