Organic or All Natural

I was feeding a family of feral cats for a while before I had to move away, and fed them various kibble varieties depending on what I could get. Their opinion was strongly in favor of the Castor and Pollux organic kibble. I could tell by how fast they snarfed it up. It was a distinct preference.

Not sure how useful that tidbit is to you but thought I would offer it.

You could let the puppy choose....

If you are willing to invest in quality food, consider cooking for your dog. Not the barf diet, which has issues, but a balanced and COOKED (or at least cooked on he outside) diet. There are books, by vets and nutritionists on this. You can also vary the diet by season or if your dog seeks cool or warm areas as some foods warm us (regardless of serving temperature) and some foods cool us.

I'm not really a dog person so I cant give you a lot of specifics...

Ps- from a meat quality standpoint it's still all the crap the government and slaughthouses tossed. It's just that sometimes there are reasons to throw out generally good meat. Organic has some advantages over all natural but both are better than 'regular' meat (and non-meat ingredients).

I bet it will be a happy dog.

'Organic' has a definition, 'all natural' doesn't. You need to decide what kind of diet you want and read the ingredients list.

This might help you with your decisions http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=organic

There is no one food that's perfect for every dog or puppy. I'd strongly suggest not investing in a large quantity of any one at first. You don't want to switch every week, of course, and as your puppy grows his needs will change.

Personally, as soon as I can, I'm getting a freezer and going to mainly raw, with some cooked meals, especially in the winter, but I'm pretty much a confirmed dog geek

veinglory said:

'Organic' has a definition, 'all natural' doesn't. You need to decide what kind of diet you want and read the ingredients list.

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And hope the ingredients list is actually accurate. They aren't always. There's lots of fraud being reported in food labeling and I would think pet food comes in for its share of that.

I am not aware of any fraud in pet food labeling. The exact nutritional values vary because the sources have seasonality, but I think the ingredients are what it says on the packaging unless the supplier of an ingredient is perpetrating a fraud (which tends to get caught on the guaranteed analysis testing)

It's not exactly fraudulent, but some of it is vague, even downright misleading.

Bone up on what the terms used actually mean, what ingredients you should watch out for, i.e. propylene glycol, brewers yeast, maltodextrins, fermentation solubles, corn (or wheat) gluten, unspecified meat and fat sources, any sort of "mill run" or hull ingredients (Science DIEt has been notorious for their use of peanut hulls), digests, ethoxyquin, meniadone, di-alpha tocopherol acetate . . . .

It isn't for everyone, but I do cook for my dogs. I make one big pot each week of what I like to call doggie gumbo, and then supplement with crunchy treats, bones, etc for healthy teeth.

It can be a nuisance, but it is easy, and works out less expensive than quality kibble.

To be fair, neither of mine have allergies/sensitivities, I just try to make sure there's a good balance of proteins, vitamins, minerals, etc in the food.

Another vote for home-cooked!

There are many ways to approach the subject. When I first started, my TCM vet was invaluable (and I prefer her approach to all facets of health and preventative medicine).


I'm not a fan of any packaged dog/cat food containing peas since they are very high in saponins, and the soapiness can be problematic for digestion.

In terms of the ingredients the Organix and All Natural seem very similar to me. They are moderate in carbs (around 30% which is the level I try to stay under for my dogs) and have very similar ingredients. The Organixs differs in having certified organic ingredients--should that be important to you. It probably is nutritionally pretty much the same.

veinglory said:

I am not aware of any fraud in pet food labeling. The exact nutritional values vary because the sources have seasonality, but I think the ingredients are what it says on the packaging unless the supplier of an ingredient is perpetrating a fraud (which tends to get caught on the guaranteed analysis testing)

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Yes, I was not aware fraud is as widespread as it apparently is, either, and have been a devotee of close reading of labels. However in recent days there have been several articles published about actually fraudulent labeling in human food. And I extrapolate that since animal food is even less closely regulated, it probably exists there too. However, I am not an expert, having just encountered this information. Here is a source of some of it: http://www.foodfraud.org/node?destination=node

And I realize this is wending a bit off topic so just wanted to offer a little back up for my earlier assertion. Personally I believe if you have time to cook for your pets it is highly preferable and gives them a far superior diet to anything off the shelf no matter how excellent.

I searched the database for "dog" and there were nil results.

Well, you're ahead of me because I have not done that. However, that database was created for human food, so it's not surprising if they don't have information about pet food (if that's what a search for "dog" tells you).

Point is, there is enough documented labeling fraud in human food to make it likely, at least to my suspicious mind, that similar false labeling exists in pet food.

And I also believe there are companies who are trustworthy, probably, and good packaged pet food exists. But relying on organic certification is one way to check that you're getting what you hope you're getting.

IMHO fraud is also carried out by organic producers--as soon as it became a value-added product a lot of people were motivated to claim organic status to earn the premium. To the extent fraudulent or accidental adulteration occurs, I don't think any brand can be assumed safer. And that probably includes raw ingredients cooked at home unless you get them direct from a farmer you know.

the bunny hugger said:

IMHO fraud is also carried out by organic producers--as soon as it became a value-added product a lot of people were motivated to claim organic status to earn the premium. To the extent fraudulent or accidental adulteration occurs, I don't think any brand can be assumed safer. And that probably includes raw ingredients cooked at home unless you get them direct from a farmer you know.

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No doubt you are right. I merely said OG certification was one way to check. The ins and outs of the value and meaning and history and usefulness of OG certification is a huge can of worms I'd rather not visit right now.

Nothing is perfect.

Alessandra Kelley said:

Interesting. I did not know that.

When I was young we had a dog who, when my mother gave him leftover stew, would eat everything except the peas, which he would leave neatly licked clean in the bowl.

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Good dog!

Breeds with deep chests (and at higher risk for digestive bloat) don't need the added potential gas load.

Unfortunately, peas have become the new corn; they are everywhere. When Merrick started with them, I switched to cooking full time, only keeping a bag of Whole Earth Farms for treats and emergencies.

Alessandra Kelley said:

Interesting. I did not know that.

When I was young we had a dog who, when my mother gave him leftover stew, would eat everything except the peas, which he would leave neatly licked clean in the bowl.

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regdog said:

Thanks for all the info. Looks like I've got more reading to do.




My Aunt had a cat who they fed leftovers to. When it was beef stew night the cat ate all the leftovers except for the peas. They were always left in the same place on the plate but licked clean of sauce.

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I wish my big dog was like that. He's one of those chow hounds who will inhale anything, anytime.

I began cooking for him after he drank from the sump (secondary tank where equipment is stored and water is circulated to be cleaned)of my saltwater reef tank and he became very, very ill.

Given the opportunity, he wouldn't hesitate to do it again.

I have a cat who adores peas - leave a saucepan of cooked peas anywhere she can reach and she'll be in them as soon as I turn my back. She also steals broccoli, but hates asparagus.

Vaguely related to the OP's question - you have a very lucky puppy. I'm not convinced about a food containing quinoa, but that's mostly because I'd rather not see it on my own plate. I'll go with what someone else said earlier - maybe get a small packet of each and see which one the puppy prefers?

regdog said:

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ETA: When you guys cook for your dogs, what do you make?

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PM incoming!