In case the Martin case wasn't egregious enough for you

raburrell

Treguna Makoidees Trecorum SadisDee
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 24, 2009
Messages
6,902
Reaction score
3,781
Age
50
Location
MA
Website
www.rebeccaburrell.com
With all the attention the Zimmerman trial received, it surprised me (well, not really) to learn that there is a startlingly similar case going on, also in Florida.

In this one, 46 year old (drunk) white guy decides that he doesn't like the 'thug' music playing in the SUV at the next gas pump, gets into some kind of altercation with the teenagers inside, and by the time his girlfriend comes out of the restroom, a 17 year old inside the SUV is dead. Of course, the shooter ('passionate about gun control and politics') is claiming he feared for his life.

http://www.policymic.com/articles/5...davis-getting-the-attention-travyon-martin-is

Dunn (the shooter) is charged with one count of 1st degree murder and 3 counts of attempted. So far, two judges have recused themselves from the trial, for reasons I'm not entirely clear on.

Ugh.
 

Michael Wolfe

Jambo Bwana
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 17, 2010
Messages
4,097
Reaction score
382
That's awful. Seems like Davis never even got out of the car. A couple of other articles I looked at both said no weapons were involved save for Dunn's.
 

Shadow Dragon

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 7, 2008
Messages
4,773
Reaction score
261
Location
In the land of dragons
This is even worse than the Martin case. Any reasonable doubt about who started the physical part of the fight is out of the window when the victims are still in their car.
 

ap123

Twitching
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 4, 2007
Messages
5,652
Reaction score
1,744
Location
In the 212
There's one big difference: It didn't take national protests to get the cops to arrest Dunn, or to get him charged with murder.

A huge distinction.
Still a heartbreaking illustration of too many incidents in this country, but a big difference.
 

rwam

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 17, 2006
Messages
1,741
Reaction score
188
Location
Glen Carbon, Illinois
This is even worse than the Martin case. Any reasonable doubt about who started the physical part of the fight is out of the window when the victims are still in their car.

Way worse, way different. I wonder if the arresting officers asked this bozo if he realized that the loud music was only a temporary situation since they were at a gas station. You know, wait a couple minutes and one or both parties would have vacated.

Something tells me this dude's going to jail for a long time.
 

raburrell

Treguna Makoidees Trecorum SadisDee
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 24, 2009
Messages
6,902
Reaction score
3,781
Age
50
Location
MA
Website
www.rebeccaburrell.com
Agreed - just wish I could find out what's going on that two judges have now recused themselves. It's stuff like that which makes me nervous that this kid won't get justice either :(

Eta: agreeing on the distinctions, not the degree. Both involve 17 year olds whose lives were stolen.
 
Last edited:

rwam

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 17, 2006
Messages
1,741
Reaction score
188
Location
Glen Carbon, Illinois
Good catch. I didn't mean 'way worse' in the sense of the tragedy....way worse in the sense I can't fathom how this guy has a plausible argument for engaging the other folks in the first place.
 

cornflake

practical experience, FTW
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Messages
16,171
Reaction score
3,734
That reminds me of this case, in which the loon was convicted. In short, a 47-year-old man went out one night complaining about the noise coming from the neighbour's kid's birthday party. He videotaped the entire thing, in an apparent attempt to set up a Stand Your Ground claim. From the story linked above -

It was after midnight when Rodriguez, complaining to police via telephone that the music was too loud, walked up to Danaher's driveway with a flashlight and gun.

In the video, Rodriguez can be heard talking to a 911 operator, saying, "I'm running the video camera right now and I'm talking to you and I mean, I'm scared to death here."...

"It's about to get out of hand sir, please help me. Please help me, my life is in danger now ...," Rodriguez told police over the phone. "Now, I'm standing my ground here. Now, these people are going to try and kill me."

If you watch the video, you can see him approach a small crowd of people, who were standing around talking and drinking beer outside the house, who clearly don't really take it seriously. One says he can go get a gun of his own or whatever, but there's also a lot of like, 'dude, seriously?' type stuff and some laughter. Then he shoots the father of the birthday girl to death in the man's driveway.

"Look, I'm not losing to these people anymore," Rodriguez said. "I'm just totally going to stay back, because they're drunk, they're ..."

Rodriguez is interrupted by wild laughter, and then the sound of gunfire, before the tape stops as Rodriguez is tackled to the ground.

Sound familiar?
 

William Haskins

poet
Kind Benefactor
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
29,114
Reaction score
8,867
Age
58
Website
www.poisonpen.net
Agreed - just wish I could find out what's going on that two judges have now recused themselves. It's stuff like that which makes me nervous that this kid won't get justice either :(

Eta: agreeing on the distinctions, not the degree. Both involve 17 year olds whose lives were stolen.

the first recused herself after a motion by the defense objecting to her denial to consider the defendant indigent and eligible for taxpayer assistance with his defense. the second judge's reason has not been revealed, but doesn't appear to be anything insidious.

couple of links:

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/...ase-steps-down-after-michael-dunn-accuses-her

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=318431

http://www.actionnewsjax.com/conten...e-recuses-herself/fq9DYZnZ5UOlqKS-scoAuw.cspx
 

StormChord

Allegedly Gullible
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 27, 2012
Messages
736
Reaction score
85
Location
Staring at the sky
Stuff like this makes me ponder the potential benefits of vigilantism. Good thing my parents keep talking me out of it.
 

Roxxsmom

Beastly Fido
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
23,122
Reaction score
10,882
Location
Where faults collide
Website
doggedlywriting.blogspot.com
Good catch. I didn't mean 'way worse' in the sense of the tragedy....way worse in the sense I can't fathom how this guy has a plausible argument for engaging the other folks in the first place.

I'm still trying to get my head around why Zimmerman engaged Treyvan Martin. He wasn't in a car, true. But by all accounts he wasn't doing anything and showed no sign of belligerence until he was confronted by Zimmerman. How many 17 year old boys are going to suck it up quietly if some strange guy in his 20s swoops down and starts harassing him?

Zimmerman may have been a neighborhood watch guy, but neighborhood watch are not supposed to apprehend criminals, and they're certainly not supposed to use guns on people. If they see something suspicious, they're supposed to call the cops and follow their instructions. The cops told Zimmerman to stay inside and to let them handle it.

I can't think of any Earthly reason why someone would disobey this (and bring a gun with him to boot) if he wasn't looking for trouble.

These stand your ground and concealed carry laws seem to me like something that can give guys with chips on their shoulders a perceived opportunity to do what they've always fantasized about--getting away with killing someone they don't like. I'm worried the Zimmerman verdict will increase this perception, and we'll have more would-be vigilantes putting themselves in "harms way" on purpose. I doubt they'll all get away with it (though some might), but people will still die who didn't need to die.
 
Last edited:

rugcat

Lost in the Fog
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 27, 2005
Messages
16,339
Reaction score
4,110
Location
East O' The Sun & West O' The Moon
Website
www.jlevitt.com
These stand your ground and concealed carry laws seem to me like something that can give guys with chips on their shoulders a perceived opportunity to do what they've always fantasized about--getting away with killing someone they don't like.
I really don't think that's what Zimmerman was about. He was a wannabee cop, imo, and I've run into plenty of them in my time.

A police job can seem incredibly tempting for a certain type of person. It's not, like you might assume, about having the power to push people around. It's about being part of a special group, living a life most people don't get, doing a job most people can't. Like being an Army ranger. Or part of an elite sports team. It feels special

You cruise around in your patrol car on a late graveyard shift, watching out for your city, listening to radio chatter from people you know well, people you've worked with for years, people who have possibly saved your skin more than once and perhaps you've saved theirs as well. You belong.

It's an attractive prospect -- esp for someone who has been a "loser," an outsider for much of their lives. Never one of the cool kids.

So you try to join up -- but more often than not, you don't make the grade. Wannabees exude a certain desperation that makes departments shy away from them.

So you take criminal justice courses. You go to self defense classes. You get a job as security guard, or become a neighborhood watch person.

But just doing the job of neighborhood watch is not enough. You want to play cop. So you call in everything you can -- not just because you're being suspicious, but because that way you get to talk to dispatch, maybe even talk to the cops when they show up -- hey, guys, I'm one of you. You're part of the fraternity -- or so you imagine.

So when you see a "suspicious character" namely a young black male, you call the cops. But then you decide to go a little further, to play cop yourself. I mean, you're almost a cop yourself, anyway, right?

"These punks always get away."

But not this time, not when George Zimmerman is on the job. So you follow him. You're not particularly worried -- the cops (your backup) are on their way, and besides that, you're packing. That criminal better not give you any trouble if he knows what's good for him. George Zimmerman is nobody to mess with.

I don't think he thought it through. I don't think he thought at all. He just thought he was going to catch a burglar and be a hero.

Then, when he comes out of the darkness to confront Martin, things don't go according to his fantasy. The black "criminal" (Martin) doesn't meekly surrender, or try to run away. He sees Zimmerman as a threat and defends himself.

Suddenly Zimmerman is in a fight. A real fight, not like sparring in the dojo. He gets hit, and it hurts. He gets knocked to the ground. And at this point, he stops thinking at all, if ever he had been.

A dangerous black criminal that he confronted is kicking his ass. His life is in danger. Why does he think that? Because black criminals are violent and dangerous. It's him or them. So he pulls out his gun and shoots him.

What's more, he feels totally justified. In his little cop fantasy world, he simply did what he had to do.

And guess what? The cops buy it. Dangerous black kid, up to no good. That's a part of this story that gets overlooked, but that mindset is telling.

The whole thing is more sad, pitiful, and disgusting than evil.
 
Last edited:

William Haskins

poet
Kind Benefactor
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
29,114
Reaction score
8,867
Age
58
Website
www.poisonpen.net
i just want to say i appreciate your perspectives on this as a former officer, john.
 

blacbird

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Messages
36,987
Reaction score
6,158
Location
The right earlobe of North America
This is even worse than the Martin case. Any reasonable doubt about who started the physical part of the fight is out of the window when the victims are still in their car.

This. I don't see this case being at all comparable to the Zimmerman case. The defense claiming self defense is about the only thing they can do. I don't think it will work. If it should fly with a jury, I'd be far more shocked than I am at the Zimmerman outcome.

caw
 

Don

All Living is Local
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
24,567
Reaction score
4,007
Location
Agorism FTW!
i just want to say i appreciate your perspectives on this as a former officer, john.
Same here.

Reading your post, I was reminded of Buddy from The Incredibles, who became Syndrome as he grew older but never really "grew up" into adulthood.
 

Sheryl Nantus

Holding out for a Superhero...
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
7,196
Reaction score
1,634
Age
59
Location
Brownsville, Pennsylvania. Or New Babbage, Second
Website
www.sherylnantus.com
The cops buy it. Dangerous black kid, up to no good. That's a part of this story that gets overlooked, but that mindset is telling.

The whole thing is more sad, pitiful, and disgusting than evil.

This is the part that has me gnashing my teeth in frustration.

Zimmerman didn't run. He didn't fight the cops. He did everything right in giving statements.

And he WENT HOME.

Someone made that decision to let him walk. I want THAT person on trial and investigated to know why he let Zimmerman go home without even a wisp of a charge for discharging his firearm without cause or any lesser charges.

Because I can bet that if it'd be anyone else who didn't have pals on the force he/she wouldn't have gone home that night.

If I lived in Stanford I'd be afraid, black or white. Because it seems pretty obvious that the cops don't mind gun-toting people taking the law into their own hands as long as you supply the donuts and coffee.

:(
 

Barbara R.

Old Hand in the Biz
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Messages
1,963
Reaction score
242
Location
New York
Website
www.barbararogan.com
Something tells me this dude's going to jail for a long time.

You forget, he's being tried in FL. He's already saying he was afraid for his life, since loud music often comes before murder; and if the victim was black and the jury is white, he's got a good chance of skating.
 

Barbara R.

Old Hand in the Biz
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Messages
1,963
Reaction score
242
Location
New York
Website
www.barbararogan.com
I'm still trying to get my head around why Zimmerman engaged Treyvan Martin. He wasn't in a car, true. But by all accounts he wasn't doing anything and showed no sign of belligerence until he was confronted by Zimmerman. .

Uh---really? I think it's a clear case of WWB-Walking While Black. The lawyers might have been prevented from talking about race in the courtroom---a travesty in itself---but that's clearly at the heart of this murder.