Question on paralyzing agents

Ken Hoss · May 24, 2013

I started a new WIP that involves a serial killer. As he's progressed and honed his skills, he's become a little more compassionate. At first he just slit his victim's throat and didn't think twice. Now he feels compassion for them and doesn't want them to suffer while the blood spurts from their slit throat. He does want them to be aware of what's happening to them though. So, I've researched and what I've found is that most neuromuscular-blocking drugs would also require a respirator to keep the person alive. Is there anything out there that could be used to paralyze an adult and yet keep them breathing? Well, at least until their throat is slit open. I thought about just using chloroform, but that's a little too cliche. Thanks for any suggestions

Chris P · May 24, 2013

I saw the thread title and I thought it was about immobilizing literary agents. That might be the only way to force them to read my book.

As to your question, sorry. I don't have any info.

veinglory · May 24, 2013

A paralyzing agent is going to cause the person more distress rather than less, they still feel pain they just also feel the panic from being paralyzed. I would suggest looking for a sedative or dissociative agent instead.

Drachen Jager · May 24, 2013

My thoughts exactly Chris. I thought the OP was going to go all Annie Wilkes on an agent.

Chloroform knocks people out, it is not, AFAIK a paralytic.

Have you looked into 'date rape' drugs? There's a whole list of them there, many of which could fit your needs. There's a bunch of neuromuscular blocking drugs here as well. Lastly, here is an article for MDs on neuro-blockers for use when rapid intubation is required.

Ken Hoss · May 24, 2013

veinglory, thanks, I never considered a sedative or dissociative agent. I will look into that. He does want them to be aware of what is happening to them.

Ken Hoss · May 24, 2013

Thanks, Drachen Jager, I will check those out.

ETA: I found a couple of choices. Ketamine or Thiopental. Either will work. Thanks again!

mirandashell · May 24, 2013

Yeah, I was wondering what Ken's agent had done to deserve that!

melindamusil · May 24, 2013

I don't know what your serial killer's backstory is, but...
perhaps he gives them an epidural, thus removing their ability to "feel" below that certain point on their spine, yet keeping them conscious.
Perhaps he is a doctor or nurse, or even just a surgery tech who has watched the doctor give epidurals. Or maybe he just learned how to do it by watching videos on Youtube.

Ken Hoss · May 24, 2013

mirandashell said:
Yeah, I was wondering what Ken's agent had done to deserve that!

He wanted me to kill off Kelli in the third book, which I just finished by the way.

mirandashell · May 24, 2013

Oh well, fair enough!

LOL!

ironmikezero · May 24, 2013

Ken, a stun gun or taser will briefly incapacitate most people... But it's not exactly painless. OTOH, the application and effect are almost instantaneous.

veinglory · May 24, 2013

I think ketamine might be a good one. It is available on the street so the character would have a way to get it.

Drachen Jager · May 24, 2013

The street name for ketamine is 'special K'. Aside from date rapes, it's sometimes used as a party drug.

Keep in mind, that some people have a bad reaction to ketamine. They stop breathing entirely and their hearts can stop too. It's rare, but common enough that hospitals keep crash carts on hand when administering ketamine.

It's rare enough you don't have to use it, but also common enough you could slip it in to twist the plot, should you want to go that way.

Ken Hoss · May 24, 2013

ironmikezero said:
Ken, a stun gun or taser will briefly incapacitate most people... But it's not exactly painless. OTOH, the application and effect are almost instantaneous.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I was looking for something a little more exotic. The idea is to have the victim conscious and yet unable to react. They know what is happening to them but are completely paralyzed.

asroc · May 24, 2013

Ken Hoss said:
Thanks for the suggestion, but I was looking for something a little more exotic. The idea is to have the victim conscious and yet unable to react. They know what is happening to them but are completely paralyzed.

Ketamine doesn't do that. It's a potent anesthetic and hallucinogen. Off the top of my head I'm not aware of any neuromuscular blocker that does not call for intubation. (A respirator is a protective device like a gas mask, btw. You're thinking of a ventilator.)

ironmikezero · May 24, 2013

Ah, you need something exotic... How about tetrodotoxin (the zombie drug)? In powdered form it can be easily inhaled/ingested - too easy, hence the technique of having it blown in the victim's face.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrodotoxin

Ken Hoss · May 24, 2013

asroc said:
Ketamine doesn't do that. It's a potent anesthetic and hallucinogen. Off the top of my head I'm not aware of any neuromuscular blocker that does not call for intubation. (A respirator is a protective device like a gas mask, btw. You're thinking of a ventilator.)

Yes, I misspoke. I meant ventilator. I really need to find something to paralyze, yet keep the person aware, seeing what is going on. I'll have a look at Iron Mike's suggestion. Thanks.

cornflake · May 24, 2013

I wouldn't define getting off on having someone know this is happening and slowly watch it while being paralyzed 'more compassionate' but that may be just me.

Your problem with the paralytic is what you found. You could just manually do it with bindings, then no issue.

King Neptune · May 24, 2013

Any drug would lead to the victims having more not less discomfort. Slashing the carotid artery causes unconsciousness from the loss in blood pressure within a rather short time, a few seconds, and the victim probably will not regain consciousness.

Bufty · May 24, 2013

And that's what he calls compassion and lessening of their suffering?

Yikes.

.......something to paralyze, yet keep the person aware, seeing what is going on

King Neptune · May 24, 2013

Bufty said:
And that's what he calls compassion and lessening of their suffering?

Yikes.

The character is a psychopathic murderer. What should we expect?

cornflake · May 24, 2013

King Neptune said:
The character is a psychopathic murderer. What should we expect?

Where did he say he was a psychopath?

mirandashell · May 24, 2013

He used 'serial killer'.

Ken Hoss · May 24, 2013

Bufty said:
And that's what he calls compassion and lessening of their suffering?

Yikes.

Hey, even serial killers have feelings too. :tongue

Well, maybe not. This guy is sick and twisted, all thanks to Mommy.

Your problem with the paralytic is what you found. You could just manually do it with bindings, then no issue.

It is a problem. There has to be something you can inject into someone to render them helpless. I suppose I could use something that renders them unconscious and tie them down, but then Dexter already has that niche locked up. I need my SK to stand out, be unique as it were.

Any drug would lead to the victims having more not less discomfort. Slashing the carotid artery causes unconsciousness from the loss in blood pressure within a rather short time, a few seconds, and the victim probably will not regain consciousness.

He's really not concerned about their comfort, he just wants to kill in a, shall we say, more humane way. (I said he was sick and twisted. :evil

) As for cutting the carotid, have you been looking over my shoulder while I'm writing?

cornflake · May 24, 2013

mirandashell said:
He used 'serial killer'.

Yeah but one isn't necessarily the other. I don't mean to be debating you all over the place btw - I generally agree with your posts n stuff!

Ken Hoss said:
Hey, even serial killers have feelings too. Well, maybe not. This guy is sick and twisted, all thanks to Mommy.

It is a problem. There has to be something you can inject into someone to render them helpless. I suppose I could use something that renders them unconscious and tie them down, but then Dexter already has that niche locked up. I need my SK to stand out, be unique as it were.

He's really not concerned about their comfort, he just wants to kill in a, shall we say, more humane way. (I said he was sick and twisted. ) As for cutting the carotid, have you been looking over my shoulder while I'm writing?

I think I don't understand how that's more humane, not being concerned for their comfort and wanting to do something in a way that causes more suffering. Not that I need to understand; it's your character, just saying.

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