Question about Rendering A Person Unconscious By Blocking Carotid Arteries

Jonathan.Bentz

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Hi, everyone. I'm currently working on a new book; I'm scrapping my vigilante book for the time being and moving on to what would have been its sequel. If, at some point, I decide to go back, it'll be with a much better understanding of what I need to do in order to make it interesting.

In this new book, the killer is an amateur filmmaker of sorts with a strangling preference (which he uses to make snuff films throughout the book), but he doesn't set up 'dates' with women in order to lure them into a private place, as whoever's dating someone will be the first to be a suspect. So he has people in mind (his psychosis is explained in general terms in the first chapter to explain his choice in targets), and his intent is to block the carotids and knock them unconscious.

Now, I know there's a fine line between unconsciousness, mental damage, and straight out death, and it's a matter of seconds and how the pressure is applied. This guy has been practicing on a 'dummy', but I've realized I might need to change what he's been practicing.

Right now, I've got him using a cord, which he wraps around the victim's neck and makes sure it blocks the carotids. But the problem is that that can also block the air, and it might cause 'mental damage'. He wants his victims completely aware, and I remembered the eighth episode the television show "Person of Interest", where the Stazi agent blocks the carotids with his bare hands and the character of John Reese is rendered unconscious within seconds.

I looked up some info on the 'Net, and it looks like a proper chokehold can do that and render a person unconscious but without mental damage in less than 10 seconds. Can this be done from behind, but with just the fingers, or does it need to be done from the front like on the TV show? The killer is not a skilled fighter, so he does not know martial arts and cannot use a chokehold.

For now, I'll write it so he can do it from behind, but I would like to know for certain.
 

ironmikezero

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I wouldn't over-complicate the issue. If you want clear strangulation, any ligature will suffice - but it will leave marks. If you want temporary incapacitation without obvious marks use a simple sleeper hold - it's relatively easy to learn, and need not confuse your reader.

http://video.about.com/prowrestling/How-to-Do-the-Sleeper-Hold.htm
 

Torgo

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(I must write a story one day in which a killer uses a writers' forum to research ways to bump people off. In fact I'm sure it must have already happened somewhere...)
 

King Neptune

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(I must write a story one day in which a killer uses a writers' forum to research ways to bump people off. In fact I'm sure it must have already happened somewhere...)

There have been a few that I wondered about, but everyone already knows to use a garotte, don't they?
 

rugcat

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Police used to use this all the time, but it's fallen out of favor lately because it sometimes leads to unintended death.

I have used it. It works; in my case it took about six seconds, iirc.


I've never heard of it being done with just the fingers. You need the compression supplied with the forearm and bicep on both sides of the neck.

I suppose it would be possible to use fingers only if the person were immobilized and couldn't move their head or neck in any way, but that seems unnecessarily complicated.

Here's a video that shows how to apply it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BpEvsgPRXU
 

Jonathan.Bentz

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Thanks for the info, everybody.

Torgo, why don't you write it so that the FBI also watches writer's forums and begins working up profiles on the users to see if any of them are potential killers? it'd be interesting, to say the least. Of course, it's entirely possible they already do....
 

Torgo

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Thanks for the info, everybody.

Torgo, why don't you write it so that the FBI also watches writer's forums and begins working up profiles on the users to see if any of them are potential killers? it'd be interesting, to say the least. Of course, it's entirely possible they already do....

OOh, maybe another writer of thrillers is on the forum and begins to suspect a recent killing matched the details of a SYW entry a little too closely... *scribbles*
 

King Neptune

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I've never heard of it being done with just the fingers. You need the compression supplied with the forearm and bicep on both sides of the neck.

I suppose it would be possible to use fingers only if the person were immobilized and couldn't move their head or neck in any way, but that seems unnecessarily complicated.

Here's a video that shows how to apply it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BpEvsgPRXU

Using the fingers is easy and fast, if the victim is lightly muscled in the neck. I discovered that by accident and no damage was done..
 

BradyH1861

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Police used to use this all the time, but it's fallen out of favor lately because it sometimes leads to unintended death.

I have used it. It works; in my case it took about six seconds, iirc.

I remember being taught a very effective chokehold in the academy. Right after we learned it and practiced it on each other, we were told that we were never allowed to use it.

Talk about mixed signals. It was very effective, but could kill if done for too long.
 

WeaselFire

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Get Spock to teach you... :)

A choke hold or other pressure point technique will work and, depending on relative size and physique, can be done without the arm around the neck. But the pressure of a forearm makes the technique effective and quick, and a little less prone to accidental death.

Garotte or other strangulation does not duplicate the effect.

Jeff
 

BAY

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Also, the average person can't find the carotids, much less apply pressure to someone fighting back. I don't see how the dummy helps. I'd go with IronMike's suggestion.
 

blacbird

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MMA fighters employ two or three variations on carotid blockage as submission maneuvers. Usually the person caught in one of these will tap out (give up) almost immediately, because unconsciousness sets in in a matter of seconds. Once in a while, the loser actually does become unconscious, and it's incumbent upon the referee to break the hold as soon as that situation is recognized.

caw
 

JoNightshade

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MMA fighters employ two or three variations on carotid blockage as submission maneuvers. Usually the person caught in one of these will tap out (give up) almost immediately, because unconsciousness sets in in a matter of seconds. Once in a while, the loser actually does become unconscious, and it's incumbent upon the referee to break the hold as soon as that situation is recognized.

caw

Indeed. Had this done to me in Brazilian jiu jitsu. We all learned it, but during practice my opponent got me in a hold where I was physically unable to tap out. Felt myself slipping out of consciousness almost instantly. Scared the bejeezus out of me. But hey - it works!

ETA: And in case the OP was wondering - yes, it really does shake you up if you've never experienced this before. My larynx wasn't damaged, but when she let me go I nearly threw up just from the shock of being so suddenly incapacitated like that. You think you have a hold on yourself, your physical capabilities, and then BAM - useless. It's really scary.
 

Nekko

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In JuJitsu all the carotid chokes we learn from behind involve arms or legs. We only use hands in front or side attacks. You have to push the sternocleidomastoid muscle out of the way when you apply pressure to the carotid with your hands*. Coming from the back, you will find it in the way.

*To clarify - this isn't a 'choke' type hold with the hands grasping the person's neck. You are typically applying the outside edge of the hands to the artery, with your arms crossed.