I may have found my cover (advice needed)

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Howard Beale

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Afternoon all :)

My current project is still in the research phase but I already had a pretty solid idea what the cover of my novel would look like. With this in mind I took a break from the research and decided to play around on GIMP to get a feel for it, using some pictures I found on Google Images.

Whilst perusing the images Google had to offer I stumbled across one that left my jaw on the floor. It was EXACTLY what I had been looking for. In fact, it was much, much better.

I emailed the graphic artist in question and asked how much he charges for his artwork. Turns out he wants £125 for the image (in HQ) and his name in print on my book.

My problem is that I didn't really want to spend anything on the artwork after deciding that I would do it myself (in co-op with my cousin who is a dab hand with Photoshop/GIMP).

Is £125 a lot for the right to use an image as a cover? And where exactly would I place the artists name if I did?

I'm a complete newbie when it comes to this sort of thing so please bear with me. Are there any other questions I would need to ask the artist?

Thank you in advance.
 

MJDavis

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Depends on how badly you want it, I suppose. You can frequently buy images online for much, much cheaper than that, but if it's truly perfect, you just need to decide if it's worth it for you.
 

SBibb

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Depends on the image. You can spend anywhere from $35.00 to $1000 on a cover image, depending on who creates the image, and what images they use to do it.

You might ask to see his contract regarding the work, and what he would licence it for (how many print copies/ebook copies, are you allowed to use it on promo materials like bookmarks, etc). See if he has an amount of time he's letting you use it for, or indefinitely.

For placement of the name, ask him. Some designers want it on the copyrights page. Some want it mentioned in the acknowledgements section, some might want it on the back cover of the book.

You'll just have to ask. :)
 

Howard Beale

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Depends on how badly you want it, I suppose. You can frequently buy images online for much, much cheaper than that, but if it's truly perfect, you just need to decide if it's worth it for you.

Yeah, I figured as much. I think right now I am content to play the waiting game, at least until my novel is near completion. By then I should have a few of my own creations on file and if they are complete crap then I suppose I have my answer.

It is so good though, I don't want it to slip through my fingers. Decisions, decisions!
 

veinglory

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125 pounds is certainly not a lot. If you want free pictures, I suggest you use foter.com or some other service that will show you only pictures free for commercial use.

IMHO "doing it yourself" would mean making the art yourself. If you want someone else to do it, and use it in a commercial product, you need to pay for it.
 

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I think that the cover is one of the most important tools for attracting readers to your book. A cover that looks cheap or thrown together would turn me off, honestly. I don't think $125 is a lot for a cover if it's high quality and fits your book.
 

Howard Beale

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You might ask to see his contract regarding the work, and what he would licence it for (how many print copies/ebook copies, are you allowed to use it on promo materials like bookmarks, etc). See if he has an amount of time he's letting you use it for, or indefinitely.

I will definitely be doing this, thanks for pointing me in the right direction. It is all of the legal stuff that I'm going to need to get my head around, more research ahead!

Thank you again.
 

katci13

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£125 is really not that much for cover art.

The artist credits generally go on the same page with the publisher and copyright information.

If it's exactly what you're looking for, I don't think that's outrageous. But yeah, the artist credit goes on the copyright page. Illustrator names sometimes go on the front, but not who did the cover art or even chapter by chapter art for people who have something like that. It would be confusing and distracting.
 

M R Mortimer

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I do my own covers, though I have spoken with artists in the past. Some of them get a little possessive of their art, just like we are of our writing. I had one recommended to me, and they demanded an upfront payment similar to this case (but before commencing on the artwork), their name on the front cover of the book, and a royalty from every book sold. That did not work for me, so obviously I withdrew from negotiations.

Be sure of all aspects before you agree to employ an artist, because a lot of artists do not have experience in publishing. If an artist has no book cover experience, they might not understand what is normal in publishing - do not be afraid to explain the normal practices. Also, are they doing the typography for you? Will editing the image to add typography go against their wishes? I have heard of this arising - and no typography makes for a pretty useless book cover.

The greatest artwork is worthless to you if you can not negotiate a good cover design with the artist. Sometimes you can, sometimes you can't. Asking the questions does not obligate either party, and can lead to a great result, or no result, but in neither case does it constitute a mistake.

What does constitute a mistake is when people take an image from google and use it without any thought for the artist who created it. It is good that you approached the artist, I hope that you can come to the solution that works best for you and your book.
 

Howard Beale

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125 pounds is certainly not a lot. If you want free pictures, I suggest you use foter.com or some other service that will show you only pictures free for commercial use.

IMHO "doing it yourself" would mean making the art yourself. If you want someone else to do it, and use it in a commercial product, you need to pay for it.

Yeah, I suppose you're right. Thanks.

I think that the cover is one of the most important tools for attracting readers to your book. A cover that looks cheap or thrown together would turn me off, honestly. I don't think $125 is a lot for a cover if it's high quality and fits your book.

I agree, which is why I am ever so tempted by this cover, I think it would look superb. Thanks.

£125 is really not that much for cover art.

The artist credits generally go on the same page with the publisher and copyright information.

General consensus is that the price is fair, that's a bonus for sure. Thank you.

If it's exactly what you're looking for, I don't think that's outrageous. But yeah, the artist credit goes on the copyright page. Illustrator names sometimes go on the front, but not who did the cover art or even chapter by chapter art for people who have something like that. It would be confusing and distracting.

Okay, I understand. Ta.

Be sure of all aspects before you agree to employ an artist, because a lot of artists do not have experience in publishing. If an artist has no book cover experience, they might not understand what is normal in publishing - do not be afraid to explain the normal practices. Also, are they doing the typography for you? Will editing the image to add typography go against their wishes? I have heard of this arising - and no typography makes for a pretty useless book cover.

The greatest artwork is worthless to you if you can not negotiate a good cover design with the artist. Sometimes you can, sometimes you can't. Asking the questions does not obligate either party, and can lead to a great result, or no result, but in neither case does it constitute a mistake.

What does constitute a mistake is when people take an image from google and use it without any thought for the artist who created it. It is good that you approached the artist, I hope that you can come to the solution that works best for you and your book.

They aren't doing the typography as far as I am aware, he didn't mention it anyway. I would assume that he would appreciate that I was going to have to add typography to his image and that wouldn't be a problem. But yes, now you have raised that issue I will ask the question.

Thanks for the advice everyone. Now I have a much better understanding of what I should/should not expect and what questions I should be asking.

One more, if I may; do I need some sort of contract with the artist or will an email confirmation be enough?
 

SBibb

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It is always wise to have some sort of contract written out between the artist and author/publisher. If nothing else, it should outline all the details and permissions regarding the art, so everyone knows exactly how they may use the art in question.

If the artist has worked much with liscencing his work, he'll probably have his own contract. Otherwise, you may need to write one up. Feel free to send me a private message if you'd like to see the general one I wrote for my book covers. Mine varies from person to person, but it could give you an idea of things to ask. (Note-- it hasn't been looked over by a legal professional, but it does spell out the permissions).
 

Putputt

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I do my own covers, though I have spoken with artists in the past. Some of them get a little possessive of their art, just like we are of our writing. I had one recommended to me, and they demanded an upfront payment similar to this case (but before commencing on the artwork), their name on the front cover of the book, and a royalty from every book sold. That did not work for me, so obviously I withdrew from negotiations.

I'm not too sure about the royalty from every book sold, but asking for a payment upfront before commencing on the artwork sounds perfectly reasonable to me. I'm a wedding photographer, and my contract states that my clients have to pay me in full before the date of the wedding itself. This is mostly because once someone books me, I reject other couples who want to book me on that date. I can't then have the original couple turn around and say they've changed their mind. It would mean a loss of earnings to me. I imagine this is similar for an artist. Once they agree to do an artwork for a client, they're going to spend their time and effort on it and possibly turn away other clients to meet their deadline, so I don't see paying them upfront as a "demand". If the client then turns around and says they don't like the artwork and are not paying for it, the artist is screwed big time.
 

veinglory

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A simple contract would be good. I needs to cover the book and any materials created to advertise or promote the book. It needs to be perpetual (covering the life of the book) and specify that no royalties will be paid. If he will agree that it will be exclusive (in terms of book cover use, so he won't see it for other cover art use but is free to sell it for any other type of use) that would be good.
 

Rachel Udin

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Doubled up on the contract bit. (or whatever number it really is)

Though I should caution while looking for images, don't forget the type--you might have found the "perfect" image, but if it turns out that you can't put the type on correctly, you've just wasted a bunch of money. Make sure you have room for the type *before* buying the pic. (Including basic standards). Do some mock ups at least.
 

Howard Beale

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It is always wise to have some sort of contract written out between the artist and author/publisher. If nothing else, it should outline all the details and permissions regarding the art, so everyone knows exactly how they may use the art in question.

If the artist has worked much with liscencing his work, he'll probably have his own contract. Otherwise, you may need to write one up. Feel free to send me a private message if you'd like to see the general one I wrote for my book covers. Mine varies from person to person, but it could give you an idea of things to ask. (Note-- it hasn't been looked over by a legal professional, but it does spell out the permissions).

I think so to, I have emailed him and I am awaiting his reply. Depending on what he says I may just take you up on your generous offer and PM you, thanks for that.

I'm not too sure about the royalty from every book sold, but asking for a payment upfront before commencing on the artwork sounds perfectly reasonable to me. I'm a wedding photographer, and my contract states that my clients have to pay me in full before the date of the wedding itself. This is mostly because once someone books me, I reject other couples who want to book me on that date. I can't then have the original couple turn around and say they've changed their mind. It would mean a loss of earnings to me. I imagine this is similar for an artist. Once they agree to do an artwork for a client, they're going to spend their time and effort on it and possibly turn away other clients to meet their deadline, so I don't see paying them upfront as a "demand". If the client then turns around and says they don't like the artwork and are not paying for it, the artist is screwed big time.

Yes, I agree with this. Which is why some sort of contract becomes even more valuable to both the artist and the writer.

A simple contract would be good. I needs to cover the book and any materials created to advertise or promote the book. It needs to be perpetual (covering the life of the book) and specify that no royalties will be paid. If he will agree that it will be exclusive (in terms of book cover use, so he won't see it for other cover art use but is free to sell it for any other type of use) that would be good.

Exclusivity is what I require more than anything, I have asked him about it and await his reply. Thanks.

Doubled up on the contract bit. (or whatever number it really is)

Though I should caution while looking for images, don't forget the type--you might have found the "perfect" image, but if it turns out that you can't put the type on correctly, you've just wasted a bunch of money. Make sure you have room for the type *before* buying the pic. (Including basic standards). Do some mock ups at least.

Good advice. I had a little play around with the type before I contacted him and I can make it work. Finding the right type might be the issue but I definitely know that it is type friendly. Thanks.
 

JRehnay

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I think it's great that you've found the perfect image for your cover :)! I work in the graphic design world (advertising, specifically) and in my opinion, the price that designer is offering you is quite reasonable.

I'd definitely go for a contract and I'd credit the artist on the copyright page.
 

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A lot of great advice here! I'll second the contract advice.

Someone mentioned about percentage per sold book and I'll just say: that's super rare (I have a deal with a small press like that, but usually the publisher pays me either for the piece of art or the full design--a flat rate).

I work with a deposit system as well; a small percentage up front, non refundable and the balance on acceptance of work.

Congrats on finding just the right image! I really hope it works out for you!

If you're looking for some fun fonts to play around with check out: http://www.dafont.com Loads of fun (and some free) fonts on there :D

Feel free to PM me with any questions too if you'd like. I've worked as a commissioned artist and a cover designer for a while now and I'm happy to share advice/knowledge.

Good luck!
 
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