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Chris P
04-16-2013, 10:27 PM
Having no experience with handguns (I shot a .22 revolver once when I was a teenager, that's it) I'd like to know what an inexperienced person in a panicky situation would feel when he fired one, and how easy he would find it.

I have a scene where the hero throws flour in the bad guy's face, then kicks him in the knee, causing the bad guy to drop his revolver. The good guy grabs it, then fires it wildly just to get a second or two head start before high-tailing it, and maybe on the off chance hit the bad guy in the process.

I know double-action revolvers fire as fast as the trigger is pulled (is that right?) so he doesn't have to cock the hammer, but how difficult is it to pull the trigger if he's just pulling it to make noise? Are double actions the exception, the rule, or is it about fifty-fifty? (the story takes place in the modern day, if that makes a difference) Also, assuming he's inexperienced, would the kick cause him to drop it? What's a realistic caliber that would startle him but not cause him to drop it? 0.38? Would a 7.62 mm, 9 mm, 0.44 or 0.45 kick too much for a novice to hold on to?

GeorgeK
04-17-2013, 12:18 AM
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=50+bmg+revolver&sa=X&rlz=1R2GGLL_enUS360&biw=1377&bih=747&tbm=isch&tbnid=n4txBvUPuqagJM:&imgrefurl=http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html%3Fb%3D1%26f%3D5%26t%3D1254960&docid=p-DDi1dCgGuyQM&imgurl=http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html%253Fi%253D34886&w=502&h=272&ei=3LFtUcLVKrW-4AOJ3IDYBw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=157&vpy=138&dur=2759&hovh=165&hovw=305&tx=73&ty=189&page=1&tbnh=137&tbnw=253&start=0&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0,i:87
That's one that he'd almost certainly drop

If he's of at least average health and size I'd be surprised if he dropped something that wasn't a magnum. It's the ammo, not the caliber really that gives the kick

Many gun clubs will let you rent a firearm for use on their range

Chris P
04-17-2013, 12:20 AM
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=50+bmg+revolver&sa=X&rlz=1R2GGLL_enUS360&biw=1377&bih=747&tbm=isch&tbnid=n4txBvUPuqagJM:&imgrefurl=http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html%3Fb%3D1%26f%3D5%26t%3D1254960&docid=p-DDi1dCgGuyQM&imgurl=http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html%253Fi%253D34886&w=502&h=272&ei=3LFtUcLVKrW-4AOJ3IDYBw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=157&vpy=138&dur=2759&hovh=165&hovw=305&tx=73&ty=189&page=1&tbnh=137&tbnw=253&start=0&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0,i:87
That's one that he'd almost certainly drop

Lol

GeorgeK
04-17-2013, 12:23 AM
I know, I didn't even know that they actually made things like that. That's definitely a Dirty Harry weapon.

Dave Hardy
04-17-2013, 12:30 AM
Using the double-action feature of a trigger generally requires a heavier pull than using the single-action feature. In my limited experience automatic pistols have more of a kick than revolvers. I can feel the kick of my 9mm Makarov more than that of my .357 Taurus. I've never dropped either one while firing.

One issue is the relative size of one's hand compared with the grip. If you have small hands on a big pistol, you don't get quite as steady a grip.

The sheer noise of firing may give more of an impact than the kick of the weapon. I once stood next to a guy firing a .357 w/out hearing protection. Bad mistake. I won't do that again. A .38 is noisy & has some mild recoil (I shot them when I qualified as an armed guard), which your character could realistically react to. A .22 target pistol is pretty mild, while a .44 magnum is a hand cannon.

Of course, being hyped up on adrenalin while kicking bad guys in the shins might well have an effect on your character too! :-)

Chris P
04-17-2013, 12:33 AM
Errrr..... even I'm pretty sure that's not a real weapon. Aren't those 50 cals anti-tank guns and fired from tripods?

And thanks for the input. My character's about 30 or so and in good health, so the caliber of the gun wouldn't really affect his ability to hold it? Makes sense.

I'll have to wait until I get back to the States to visit a gun club, which shouldn't be too hard to find.

GeorgeK
04-17-2013, 12:42 AM
Errrr..... even I'm pretty sure that's not a real weapon. Aren't those 50 cals anti-tank guns and fired from tripods?
.
But it is such an awesome (as in comical) idea.
I see it showing up in an Ahnold type movie. Maybe a real life action movie based on Yosemite Sam?

Chris P
04-17-2013, 12:43 AM
Using the double-action feature of a trigger generally requires a heavier pull than using the single-action feature. I thought that might be the case, although to be effective it can't beTOO hard to pull In my limited experience automatic pistols have more of a kick than revolvers. Really? I thought some of the recoil energy was transferred to the bolt to eject the shell and load the next one. But, experience trumps theory. I can feel the kick of my 9mm Makarov more than that of my .357 Taurus. I've never dropped either one while firing. I had a guy tell me the first time he shot a Civil War black powder pistol the recoil caused the gun to conk him on the forehead head.

One issue is the relative size of one's hand compared with the grip. If you have small hands on a big pistol, you don't get quite as steady a grip. Good point, although my MC's a 30-ish average sized guy.

The sheer noise of firing may give more of an impact than the kick of the weapon. Hmmm, that's something I might want to make use of, especially since they're inside when it happens I once stood next to a guy firing a .357 w/out hearing protection. Bad mistake. I won't do that again. A .38 is noisy & has some mild recoil (I shot them when I qualified as an armed guard), which your character could realistically react to. A .22 target pistol is pretty mild, while a .44 magnum is a hand cannon.

Of course, being hyped up on adrenalin while kicking bad guys in the shins might well have an effect on your character too! :-)

Thanks for the info!

Chris P
04-17-2013, 12:46 AM
But it is such an awesome (as in comical) idea.
I see it showing up in an Ahnold type movie. Maybe a real life action movie based on Yosemite Sam?

AW really, really needs a Yosemite Sam font so I can reply. ALL CAPS BOLD just doesn't seem to be enough.

ebbrown
04-17-2013, 01:00 AM
First time I shot a sig sauer, it nearly jumped out of my hand, and I ended up with a couple little blood blisters. After the first shot, however, it did not happen again. I have small hands though, prolly makes a difference the first time.

WeaselFire
04-17-2013, 01:01 AM
Having no experience with handguns...
Go to a local range and rent some and try them. Nothing beats first-hand experience.

As for inexperienced, the first handgun I ever shot was a Smith and Wesson Model 29 in .44 Magnum. Yep, Dirty Harry's gun. 14 years old, scared and nervous and my uncle sent me out in the back yard to try it. Didn't drop that one, so I'm not sure why your MC would.

9 mm would be common. So go try one. A Glock 17 is a great starter to learn with. Just don't make the same mistake I did the first time I shot that .44 Magnum. Took a chunk out of my forehead with the hammer on the recoil because I didn't lock my elbows. Last time I did that. Ever. :)

By the way, the .50 caliber Desert Eagle doesn't have a lot of recoil effect to it, too big and heavy to transfer it all to the shooter. Try a subcompact in .45 ACP for the recoil effect.

Jeff

ebbrown
04-17-2013, 01:08 AM
Just don't make the same mistake I did the first time I shot that .44 Magnum. Took a chunk out of my forehead with the hammer on the recoil because I didn't lock my elbows. Last time I did that. Ever. :)



Jeff

Ouch.

WriteKnight
04-17-2013, 01:15 AM
For a real time look at stupid people using guns - check out this video of epic gun fails.

http://youtu.be/dmtOEI7sAAs

Don't know whether to laugh, cry or puke when I watch it. But you can see for yourself, people using guns who have no experience, or no real EXPECTATION for what firing the gun will feel like. Different people, different guns.

Dave Hardy
04-17-2013, 01:18 AM
Ah yes, locked elbows make a world of difference! I don't recall ever bonking myself in the head, though I think I came close a few times (or maybe I did and I'm just suppressing the memory).

The thing about automatics, is that the energy goes into the slide (as you pointed out), but the slide runs back to its stopping point, just above the joint of your thumb and palm. In a revolver the recoil is diffused more through the frame, I find them easier to control.

A little OT, since it's about rifles, but I was at a range a few days ago, teaching my daughter how to shoot with an old bolt action .22. The guy next to us had a Mosin-Nagant. It went off like a cannon indoors. Unless I had my eye on the muzzle I might not even notice when my daughter fired the .22. The guy kindly let me fire a few shots from the Mosin-Nagant. I'd sight in and squeeze the trigger and the whole sight pattern vanished as the muzzle kicked up. And you kind of feel it when something that loud goes off, it sort of rattles your chest.

ebbrown
04-17-2013, 01:22 AM
For a real time look at stupid people using guns - check out this video of epic gun fails.

http://youtu.be/dmtOEI7sAAs

Don't know whether to laugh, cry or puke when I watch it. But you can see for yourself, people using guns who have no experience, or no real EXPECTATION for what firing the gun will feel like. Different people, different guns.

Oh, my. Speechless.

slhuang
04-17-2013, 01:23 AM
I know double-action revolvers fire as fast as the trigger is pulled (is that right?)

Yes, that's correct. The trigger pull in double action mode needs more strength than if you draw back the hammer, however, sometimes significantly more.



so he doesn't have to cock the hammer, but how difficult is it to pull the trigger if he's just pulling it to make noise?
Depends on the firearm. Considering his inexperience, if the hammer's not back, I would say it will probably take more strength than he'd expect. He'd press his finger on it, find quite a bit of resistance, and then he'd probably squeeze his whole hand together to pull harder on the trigger.

The noise will probably shock him even if he's expecting it, and will probably be much louder and more explosive than he anticipates, unless he's heard the gun fire earlier in the scene. And maybe even then.



Are double actions the exception, the rule, or is it about fifty-fifty? (the story takes place in the modern day, if that makes a difference)
For modern revolvers, double-action is the rule. (Technically they're both double- and single-action (DA/SA), because you CAN draw the hammer back and fire in them single-action. Double-action only (DAO) revolvers exist as well--no hammer to draw back. But the most common ones today are DA/SA.)

Single-action only (SAO) revolvers (where you HAVE to draw back the hammer) were what was used in the Old West. But I've never seen an SAO revolver manufactured in the present day that wasn't a Western replica or something.



Also, assuming he's inexperienced, would the kick cause him to drop it?
Very unlikely. I've never seen anyone drop a handgun because of the kick.



What's a realistic caliber that would startle him but not cause him to drop it? 0.38? Would a 7.62 mm, 9 mm, 0.44 or 0.45 kick too much for a novice to hold on to?Someone else mentioned the increased kick of Magnum ammunition -- .357 Magnum or .44 Magnum would be powerful enough that it might hurt his hand and make shooting the gun a violent-feeling experience. But I still don't think he'd drop it, especially if he's strong and in shape.

As to caliber:

.38 Special, .357 Magnum, and .44 Magnum are the most common revolver cartridges in my experience, .38 Special being the most common. If you want something medium with a good bang, go with .38 Special. In choosing your gun, it might be helpful to know that your villain could have .38 Special ammo in a firearm chambered for .357 Magnum (though not the other way around).

Not many revolvers chambered in 7.62. I've never even seen one.

9mm isn't a revolver caliber. I think the odd revolver is built for it, but most of your readers would think you had it wrong. (Nerd warning: Most revolver cartridges are rimmed so as to sit in the cylinder correctly; 9mm is rimless so as to feed into semiautomatics correctly. 9mm and .38 Special are actually the same diameter, but are decidedly not interchangeable.)

Not all that many modern revolvers chambered in .45.

And then there's the .50 caliber wrist-breaking hand-cannons another poster linked to :D . . . (don't give him one of those).

ETA: I've elided the concepts of "cartridge" and "caliber" here a bit, and I feel bad about that. "Caliber" refers to the diameter. "Cartridge" refers to the ammunition cartridge as a whole. .38 is a caliber; .38 Special is a cartridge. Common cartridges are often referred to by their calibers as shorthand -- so, .38 for .38 Special. So, for instance, when I refer to 9mm here I'm referring to the 9x19mm Parabellum cartridge. (I know you probably don't care, OP, but I'm feeling pedantic with myself!)

slhuang
04-17-2013, 01:40 AM
In my limited experience automatic pistols have more of a kick than revolvers. Really? I thought some of the recoil energy was transferred to the bolt to eject the shell and load the next one. But, experience trumps theory. I can feel the kick of my 9mm Makarov more than that of my .357 Taurus. I've never dropped either one while firing.
Chris P, you're absolutely right -- all else being equal, a revolver will have more kick, because on a semiauto some of the recoil energy goes into rechambering.

But you're never really going to have a revolver and a semiauto that are otherwise equal, right? :) So I wouldn't say it's really a useful rule when it comes to writing about guns! It's really individual to each gun and its ammo, and people sometimes have different subjective experiences, as well.

Dave, I suspect your differing experiences have more to do with weight -- more massive guns have less recoil, because the gun absorbs more. A Makarov is a pretty small gun (and doesn't, IMHO, have the smoothest firing experience anyway); I suspect that's why you feel more recoil with it, especially if your Taurus is a big 'un. :)

Dave Hardy
04-17-2013, 01:53 AM
Dave, I suspect your differing experiences have more to do with weight -- more massive guns have less recoil, because the gun absorbs more. A Makarov is a pretty small gun (and doesn't, IMHO, have the smoothest firing experience anyway); I suspect that's why you feel more recoil with it, especially if your Taurus is a big 'un. :)

Hmm, got to admit you have a point there. Makarovs are not exactly designed for comfort. I'm just happy if no parts fall off while I'm shooting it.

slhuang
04-17-2013, 02:03 AM
Hmm, got to admit you have a point there. Makarovs are not exactly designed for comfort. I'm just happy if no parts fall off while I'm shooting it.

Hahaha right? :D Ah, Makarovs . . .

vagough
04-17-2013, 05:17 AM
For a real time look at stupid people using guns - check out this video of epic gun fails.

http://youtu.be/dmtOEI7sAAs

Don't know whether to laugh, cry or puke when I watch it. But you can see for yourself, people using guns who have no experience, or no real EXPECTATION for what firing the gun will feel like. Different people, different guns.

Oh dear. Some of those were, well, pretty scary. Makes me awfully glad we took the basic pistol course before ever going to the range.

Stanmiller
04-17-2013, 05:37 AM
Having no experience with handguns (I shot a .22 revolver once when I was a teenager, that's it) I'd like to know what an inexperienced person in a panicky situation would feel when he fired one, and how easy he would find it.

I have a scene where the hero throws flour in the bad guy's face, then kicks him in the knee, causing the bad guy to drop his revolver. The good guy grabs it, then fires it wildly just to get a second or two head start before high-tailing it, and maybe on the off chance hit the bad guy in the process.

I know double-action revolvers fire as fast as the trigger is pulled (is that right?) so he doesn't have to cock the hammer, but how difficult is it to pull the trigger if he's just pulling it to make noise? Are double actions the exception, the rule, or is it about fifty-fifty? (the story takes place in the modern day, if that makes a difference) Also, assuming he's inexperienced, would the kick cause him to drop it? What's a realistic caliber that would startle him but not cause him to drop it? 0.38? Would a 7.62 mm, 9 mm, 0.44 or 0.45 kick too much for a novice to hold on to?

If you want to give him something that'll king-hell surprise him, give him one of the several Smith and Wesson small-frame Airlites or Airweights (Aluminium alloy J-frames) in .38 Special +P or .357 Mag.

Those things are punishing to shoot. (Small grip + light weight + short barrel = massive muzzle blast and jarring recoil impulse.)

Stan

BDSEmpire
04-17-2013, 05:42 AM
It's pretty easy to accidentally discharge a firearm. In a high stress situation for a novice user it's likely you'll put some holes into the walls, floors, or bric-a-brac. Pretty much anything but what you are aiming at.

Guns are loud as hell. It would be a great idea to go out to a range and try out some pistols. I agree with WeaselFire, you're not going to beat personal experience.

Cyia
04-17-2013, 05:45 AM
Errrr..... even I'm pretty sure that's not a real weapon. Aren't those 50 cals anti-tank guns and fired from tripods?



There's a Desert Eagle 50 that's a handgun, but a novice likely wouldn't be able to fire it with accuracy.



If you want to give him something that'll king-hell surprise him, give him one of the several Smith and Wesson small-frame Airlites or Airweights (Aluminium alloy J-frames) in .38 Special +P or .357 Mag.

Those things are punishing to shoot. (Small grip + light weight + short barrel = massive muzzle blast and jarring recoil impulse.)

Stan

(highlighting mine)

A 357 will put you on your butt if you're not ready for the kick. And it will take *several* practice shots to get to the point you can even hold one steady without having your hands jerk up, sideways, or both.

Chris P
04-17-2013, 10:24 AM
Thanks everyone! Too many comments to reply, but I've responded in the reps. Too bad I'm in Uganda because I'm sure dozens of my friends in the US would love to take this slightly leftist Peace Corps hippie to the gun range! :D [Which I would gladly do, btw, I'm not THAT slightly leftist Peace Corps hippie].

WeaselFire
04-17-2013, 06:44 PM
Too bad I'm in Uganda...
Just pick up one of Idi Amin's old AK's and go shoot at the airport...

Oops. Wrong era. :)

Seriously, there are plenty of opportunities for you to get experience, including ranges and hunting lodges, in Uganda. By the way, beautiful country. Have a good friend that did missionary work along the Congo (then Zaire) border and they vacationed in Entebbe.

Jeff

Steve Collins
04-17-2013, 07:34 PM
If you were in a high stress environment you wouldn't notice the trigger pull at all. If it's a pretty standard .38 Revolver the double action pull on the trigger would be 10 - 12 lbs, or 3-5 on single action.

jmare
04-18-2013, 09:38 AM
Having no experience with handguns (I shot a .22 revolver once when I was a teenager, that's it) I'd like to know what an inexperienced person in a panicky situation would feel when he fired one, and how easy he would find it.

I have a scene where the hero throws flour in the bad guy's face, then kicks him in the knee, causing the bad guy to drop his revolver. The good guy grabs it, then fires it wildly just to get a second or two head start before high-tailing it, and maybe on the off chance hit the bad guy in the process.

I know double-action revolvers fire as fast as the trigger is pulled (is that right?) so he doesn't have to cock the hammer, but how difficult is it to pull the trigger if he's just pulling it to make noise? Are double actions the exception, the rule, or is it about fifty-fifty? (the story takes place in the modern day, if that makes a difference) Also, assuming he's inexperienced, would the kick cause him to drop it? What's a realistic caliber that would startle him but not cause him to drop it? 0.38? Would a 7.62 mm, 9 mm, 0.44 or 0.45 kick too much for a novice to hold on to?

[Helpful stuff]
Just a couple of things to keep in mind: Revolvers and pistols have different recoils to them. Since revolvers have a solid frame, the recoil travels straight back. Pistols tend to climb due to the inertia of the the action. It's a subtle difference, but it does exist. Going to a range is the best way to get the feel for both and to feel the difference for yourself.

As others have said, double action refers to the way the gun functions rather than the overall category of its function. All modern handguns are semi-automatic, i.e., one round per trigger squeeze.

Any caliber can startle the shooter if they aren't expecting it.

[Not so Helpful Stuff]
That's one thing that puzzles me about your scenario, at least as it's presented. If the hero gains control of the gun, why is his first instinct to run? Also, why does he shoot wildly, rather than to kill or incapacitate the bad guy? Your scenario--as presented--seems like the hero is very young or too inexperienced to disarm an attacker based on the what his intended actions are after he gets the gun. It is possible, but very unlikely that an attacker would drop his gun just because somebody kicked him in the knee, without shattering it. Which comes back to why somebody capable of doing such damage would be so uncomfortable around guns and/or run even though the attacker is disarmed.

I'm sure you've got all these little details figured out, or at least thought about it. But if not, I thought I would share my thoughts on your proposed scene and some of the potential issues you may face in getting it to be believable. Good luck. Hopefully this helps.

Chris P
04-18-2013, 10:08 AM
[Not so Helpful Stuff]
That's one thing that puzzles me about your scenario, at least as it's presented. If the hero gains control of the gun, why is his first instinct to run? Also, why does he shoot wildly, rather than to kill or incapacitate the bad guy? Your scenario--as presented--seems like the hero is very young or too inexperienced to disarm an attacker based on the what his intended actions are after he gets the gun. It is possible, but very unlikely that an attacker would drop his gun just because somebody kicked him in the knee, without shattering it. Which comes back to why somebody capable of doing such damage would be so uncomfortable around guns and/or run even though the attacker is disarmed.

I'm sure you've got all these little details figured out, or at least thought about it. But if not, I thought I would share my thoughts on your proposed scene and some of the potential issues you may face in getting it to be believable. Good luck. Hopefully this helps.

Thanks for that insight. To be honest, I wrote it that way because I figured that's how the character would react; simply attempt to get away. I will consider, though, whether that's really his most realistic action in that scenario--he's holding the gun on the guy he's just disarmed when another arrives and he figures he can't shoot both.

GeorgeK
04-18-2013, 05:20 PM
[Not so Helpful Stuff]
That's one thing that puzzles me about your scenario, at least as it's presented. If the hero gains control of the gun, why is his first instinct to run? Also, why does he shoot wildly, rather than to kill or incapacitate the bad guy? Your scenario--as presented--seems like the hero is very young or too inexperienced to disarm an attacker based on the what his intended actions are after he gets the gun. It is possible, but very unlikely that an attacker would drop his gun just because somebody kicked him in the knee, without shattering it. Which comes back to why somebody capable of doing such damage would be so uncomfortable around guns and/or run even though the attacker is disarmed.

I'm sure you've got all these little details figured out, or at least thought about it. But if not, I thought I would share my thoughts on your proposed scene and some of the potential issues you may face in getting it to be believable. Good luck. Hopefully this helps.In fight or flight mode people can fluctuate back and forth, fight when cornered and flee as soon as an oppurtunity presents itself. It's not an either-or scenario for many people. If the kid was wearing a steel toed shoe, I could definitely see that causing enough pain to the knee that someone other than a trained soldier might drop their weapon.

Summonere
04-18-2013, 07:51 PM
If you were in a high stress environment you wouldn't notice the trigger pull at all. If it's a pretty standard .38 Revolver the double action pull on the trigger would be 10 - 12 lbs, or 3-5 on single action.

This is pretty much what I was going to say, too.

What's even strangely more, your character likely won't even be aware of the noise of firing -- or any other noise, for that matter -- as the result of what's called auditory exclusion. And he'll likely have absolutely no perception of recoil, either. And being untrained, it's very likely he'll do nothing more than point the revolver at the bad guy and pull the trigger. What this means is that he can, even at very close range, miss. Especially if he and the bad guy are moving.

But hey, it's fiction, so you can play it in whatever way makes the scene coolest. As William Goldman once put it, the obligation is not to be absolutely factual all the time (that's often boring), but to write what is believable in the context of the scene.

Of course if your character has just dusted the bad guy with flour, I'm thinking two eggs and a good beating with a whisk may follow...:)

jmare
04-18-2013, 11:36 PM
Thanks for that insight. To be honest, I wrote it that way because I figured that's how the character would react; simply attempt to get away. I will consider, though, whether that's really his most realistic action in that scenario--he's holding the gun on the guy he's just disarmed when another arrives and he figures he can't shoot both.

Okay, that makes more sense. Like I said, my puzzlement was probably just a lack of information and you had already considered these things. From the OP it sounded like there was one attacker, running from multiple attackers is understandable.


In fight or flight mode people can fluctuate back and forth, fight when cornered and flee as soon as an opportunity presents itself. It's not an either-or scenario for many people. If the kid was wearing a steel toed shoe, I could definitely see that causing enough pain to the knee that someone other than a trained soldier might drop their weapon.

Like I said, it was a question of why someone who has overpowered a single assailant would flee from someone who is no longer a, or at least a reduced, threat. I understand that in high-stress situations people don't always act logically, but as this is fiction, it might cause readers to balk at a hero running away from a fight he's just won.

Drachen Jager
04-19-2013, 12:37 AM
I don't know if you've covered this, Chris, but if there is a big puff of flower in the guy's face, and a spark to ignite it (say, from a pistol being fired) the flour is likely to explode.

It wouldn't be a massive explosion, but it might burn your character's hands and/or the bad guy's face.

Just thought it was worth mentioning.

Drachen Jager
04-19-2013, 12:42 AM
I know, I didn't even know that they actually made things like that. That's definitely a Dirty Harry weapon.

I'd bet it's a fake.

Along with these BirdMan specials. (sorry for large image sizes and dragging this discussion off-track)

http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/attachments/powder-keg/1432d1045880652-new-50-cal-jadedbig.jpg

http://i37.tinypic.com/2450q38.jpg

http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/images/nyte-sytes.jpg

http://www.rangus.de/Bilder_v_R/Nuke50ad01large.jpg

Hendo
04-19-2013, 06:30 AM
The most likely thing that would happen, especially if it's someone who has never fired before is that they will shoot wide and low to the left of where they're aiming (this is based on a right handed shooter) It's also why there are a high number of fatal/serious gunshots to the legs.

You can search youtube for "Pulp Fiction Divine Intervention" to see kinda what I'm talking about. Although for the movie's sake they had the bullets circle them lol


When most people shoot a gun for the first time they do something called anticipating the shot. You know the gun is going to kick back so you tense up and break your wrist in anticipation of the shock (by break your wrist I mean jerk them down to counter the upkick of the gun which will pull your sighting down)

Another beginner problem that usually comes paired with anticipation is over squeezing the trigger. When you squeeze too hard the tip of the gun pulls in the direction opposite of the hand you're holding it in. So a righty over squeezing will pull the tip to the left. Add the longer trigger pull of a revolver into that equation and you can be shooting pretty far left.

Now how far off you shoot also depends on distance from the target. Up close it might not seem like much... maybe only a couple of inches off. But back up by several yards and those inches can turn into more than a foot or two.

If you ever have the opportunity to go to a range and shoot, have someone mix a dummy round or two in with your others and you'll be able to see it happening. I've had that done to me during qualifications a few times to work out kinks in my shooting.

As for kick, our carry was a .40 glock 22 and my tiny ex-girlfriend was able to control it when I took her to the range in spite of never having shot before. I've personally never shot a revolver before but when my little brother was about 12 years old he shot my grandpa's. I can't remember what it was but I do remember them saying it was the biggest cal revolver in existence at the time and he managed to hold onto it. Granted his arms did kick pretty high up lol

Sonata
04-19-2013, 05:17 PM
[QUOTE=Dave Hardy;8118293]Using the double-action feature of a trigger generally requires a heavier pull than using the single-action feature. In my limited experience automatic pistols have more of a kick than revolvers. I can feel the kick of my 9mm Makarov more than that of my .357 Taurus. I've never dropped either one while firing.
/QUOTE]

That's wild! I have a .357 Magnum Taurus, which is truly a peach to shoot. Its 6 inch barrel makes it heavier and so smooth. Recovering from shots is relatively easy. If I load .38sp in it, its just a hair worse than a .22 cal IMO.

I also have large hands for a female, so when I shot a semi-auto Makarov 9mm, it was the most painful hand-gun experience I've ever had. Nasty little thing!

Barrel length may play a role in the comfort of the shooter. Shooting our .38 Colt Detective Special with a short barrel always hurts my hand. Its excellent for concealment and carry, but a mean little bugger to shoot. The grip doesn't fit me. Whereas the .357 is virtually impossible to conceal, but extremely accurate.

Weight, barrel length, and even age of the pistol will play a role in its percieved recoil. Generally semi-autos will absorb some of that recoil in the slide action, making it easier to recover.

Also, elbow locking. I've always been taught thats a great way to hurt yourself, but maybe something has changed in shooting technique. All the force is then transferred into your shoulders and wrists - ouch. I never lock up and I've never even come close to dropping a gun, not even my DH's 44 mag, nor injured myself or missed my target. Just a thought.

OP - Who are the bad guys? As in, why they are carrying guns might tell us what kind they would likely have. Size of the firearm, caliber, barrel length, hammer/action, number of rounds, etc. Any info there could help us describe it to you.

GeorgeK
04-19-2013, 10:37 PM
Like I said, it was a question of why someone who has overpowered a single assailant would flee from someone who is no longer a, or at least a reduced, threat. I understand that in high-stress situations people don't always act logically, but as this is fiction, it might cause readers to balk at a hero running away from a fight he's just won.
Knocking a firearm away from an assailant is not the same as overpowering them, even if the character picks it up. From the character's perspective, the assailant might have another weapon to pull out imminently

Chris P
04-19-2013, 11:29 PM
The villains are a ragtag group who have armed themselves with whatever they can find. Because of where the story takes place, most of the weapons are old, even WWII and Cold War old. As mentioned, the hero has grabbed the dropped gun of the guy he blinded and kicked hard enough to make him fall. He's holding the gun to the guys' head when another bad guy shows up. If he shoots the first guy, the second will shoot him, and if he shoots the second guy the first will likely overpower him. So he fires blindly just for a distraction and to get a few seconds head start (and if he hits one of the baddies, so much the better).

I think I have enough to go on here, so thanks for all the input everyone.