Do Countries Have Different Tastes in Reading?

Ken · Apr 12, 2013

... have always had that impression.

That readers in Europe for instance are inclined towards a different array of novels than here in the States. It's probably something that can be verified or refuted fairly easily if you know where to look: by comparing seller lists between countries and noting any differences.

This ties in with writing in that if you happen to write books of one sort or another that aren't entirely popular in your own land maybe you might do something radical like submitting to markets elsewhere, if feasible.

The topic occurred to me when reading an article about a bestselling author in Japan: Haruki Murakami. His latest which has just been released in Japan will have a press run of 1/2 a million and had 20,000 pre-orders on Amazon! There's talk about him being a nobel prize candidate and his books sound pretty deep and intense. Would an author of such sort make such a splash elsewhere? Maybe so.

He's been translated into 40 different languages. So there is worldwide appeal. But maybe this still says something about differences in readers throughout the world. That tastes vary from country to country, some, making it not so unreasonable for writers to consider sub'ing outside their own countries, when desperation sets in ;-)

A link to the Haruki Murakami article.
Check out the towering stack of books!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2013/apr/12/haruki-murakami-colourless-tsukuru-tazaki

kuwisdelu · Apr 12, 2013

I think culture most definitely has an impact on the kind of fiction people both produce and consume.

I've found myself relating much more to the kind of fiction that Nonwestern cultures tend to produce, which is why Murakami is my favorite author, and I'm such a big fan of anime.

Another of my favorite authors, David Mitchell, is very popular in Eastern markets, probably for this reason.

ellio · Apr 12, 2013

This is a link to a totally wonderful article on tumblr about how Western literature is deemed as boring if it lacks conflict whereas East Asian literature often has no conflict and relies in exposition and contrast to keep the reader's interested.

Well worth reading. Includes cartoons, too!

kuwisdelu · Apr 12, 2013

ellio said:
This is a link to a totally wonderful article on tumblr about how Western literature is deemed as boring if it lacks conflict whereas East Asian literature often has no conflict and relies in exposition and contrast to keep the reader's interested.

Another thing I've noticed is that Western audiences tend to like strong and active characters, whereas many Nonwestern audiences like stories with weak and passive characters.

I prefer reading about weak and passive characters.

Scribhneoir · Apr 12, 2013

kuwisdelu said:
I prefer reading about weak and passive characters.

Why?

kuwisdelu · Apr 12, 2013

Scribhneoir said:
Why?

I can relate to their stories better. They're more interesting to me.

I've posted extensively about why in this thread dedicated to them.

jjdebenedictis · Apr 12, 2013

On one hand, a good book is a good book, and a story that appeals to us is one that appeals to us as a human being. Thus, a great story will jump borders just fine.

On the other, what resonates with a reader does depend on who that reader is, and their culture helps shape who they are in terms of their frustrations, fears, and hopes.

I've read (don't know if it's true) that in India, a lot of men read romance novels. The article theorized it's because India is, in general, so wild about love stories that there's no stigma attached to a guy liking his Harlequin Presents books.

I also remember an agent noting at a conference that he had once rep'ed a book that was oppressively claustrophobic and dark, and that featured disturbing, mentally unstable characters. The book did okay in the North American market, but it absolutely flew off the shelves in former Soviet bloc countries.

Culture creates some of the empty places in a person's psyche that books help to fill.

Ken · Apr 12, 2013

kuwisdelu said:
I prefer reading about weak and passive characters.

... Beckett is your writer then.
One of his more accessible troves:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stories_and_Texts_for_Nothing

He's known for his plays, Waiting for Godot in particular,
but he wrote a lot of stories and novels too which are excellent.

ellio said:
This is a link to a totally wonderful article on tumblr about how Western literature is deemed as boring if it lacks conflict whereas East Asian literature often has no conflict and relies in exposition and contrast to keep the reader's interested.

Well worth reading. Includes cartoons, too!

... cartoon was neat

Fascinating article. One of my basic complaints about novels has always been that conflict is requisite. I'm fine with conflict, but have long longed for novels without such, in which stuff just happens, etc. Closest I got to that was Mansfield Park, by Austen, which is among my favs. Will have to check out some Eastern novels, including Murakami's. Maybe I've been missing out -- big time!

kuwisdelu · Apr 12, 2013

Personally, I think Haruki Murakami's are full of conflict. It's just that it's all internalized and very subtle.

Paul · Apr 12, 2013

I prefer reading about weak and passive characters.

Ken said:
... Beckett is your writer then.

!

Can't imagine a statement I could disagree more with.

Paul · Apr 12, 2013

kuwisdelu said:
Personally, I think Haruki Murakami's are full of conflict. It's just that it's all internalized and very subtle.

jus' like Beckett's

Scribhneoir · Apr 12, 2013

kuwisdelu said:
I can relate to their stories better. They're more interesting to me.

I've posted extensively about why in this thread dedicated to them.

Interesting thread. Can't say that I find weak and/or passive characters who stumble through their stories very appealing, but I might read a book or two from among those mentioned, just to say I did.

kuwisdelu · Apr 12, 2013

Scribhneoir said:
Interesting thread. Can't say that I find weak and/or passive characters who stumble through their stories very appealing, but I might read a book or two from among those mentioned, just to say I did.

Sometimes I prefer the ones where they're dragged, but stumbling is good too.

Ken · Apr 12, 2013

kuwisdelu said:
Personally, I think Haruki Murakami's are full of conflict. It's just that it's all internalized and very subtle.

Paul said:
Can't imagine a statement I could disagree more with.

... "westerners demand conflict," as ellio's linked to article states. "And if they read a novel in which there ain't any they'll go so far as to invent it," adds Ken while ducking behind the podium to dodge a tomato; too late, alas.

:e2tomato:

kuwisdelu · Apr 12, 2013

Ken said:
... "westerners demand conflict," as ellio's linked to article states. "And if they read a novel in which there ain't any they'll go so far as to invent it," adds Ken while ducking behind the podium to dodge a tomato; too late, alas.

I could be wrong, but I thought Paul was disagreeing with Beckett's characters being described as weak and passive?

Ken · Apr 12, 2013

kuwisdelu said:
I could be wrong, but I thought Paul was disagreeing with Beckett's characters being described as weak and passive?

... oops. Overlooked that. Good catch.

frimble3 · Apr 12, 2013

What about 'strong and passive'? Absolutely determined to just sit there and do nothing? Resolutely not making decisions. Like a big rock sitting in the swift-flowing stream.

kuwisdelu · Apr 12, 2013

frimble3 said:
What about 'strong and passive'? Absolutely determined to just sit there and do nothing? Resolutely not making decisions. Like a big rock sitting in the swift-flowing stream.

I've enjoyed stories where the main character is determined to do nothing, but usually as a result of his or her weakness, and not wanting the responsibility of making any kind of active decision.

Not my kind of story, but your example can work, too. You have Achilles in The Illiad.

Paul · Apr 13, 2013

kuwisdelu said:
I could be wrong, but I thought Paul was disagreeing with Beckett's characters being described as weak and passive?

You're right, he was.

lolchemist · Apr 13, 2013

ellio said:
This is a link to a totally wonderful article on tumblr about how Western literature is deemed as boring if it lacks conflict whereas East Asian literature often has no conflict and relies in exposition and contrast to keep the reader's interested.

Well worth reading. Includes cartoons, too!

I LOVE this article! Thank you!!! I've stated before elsewhere that I love stories without conflict only to be ripped to shreds and informed that stories without conflict cannot exist and that every decision a character makes is a conflict and blah blah blah. I have saved this in my links now so I can use it as a shield the next time someone tries to *inform* me so adamantly.

Jamesaritchie · Apr 13, 2013

Well, western fiction sells very well in just about every country in the world. I've even had western sells all over hell and gone. It seems to me that if our bestsellers also sell so well in almost every country out there, the problem might with this internal conflict novels they sell on their on. If they like those novels so much, then why do they buy so many millions of western bestsellers?

Dave of Mars · Apr 13, 2013

Have you asked someone that speaks another language what an English word means in their language, and they stare into space for a while, until they shrug their shoulders and say there isn't really a word for it?

Different languages not only have different words, but they have different concepts, different ideas. If you've ever come across someone who just can't tell you what a foreign word means because there's no comparison then it shows that that language has an idea that English entirely lacks. When you learn a new language, not only are you learning new words and ways of speaking, but it's as if you're learning a brand new mental operating system. Stories written in other languages are thus probably going to have new conventions when it comes to storytelling and new ideas that you've never even considered, since you haven't even had the words to think them.

Laer Carroll · Apr 13, 2013

One of the problems in discussing something like this is the habit of making generalizations too broad: East vs. West being passive vs. active, for instance. Chinese literature has thousands of years of tales about heroes who are very active, of stories full of conflict, as just one example.

Another is the US vs. Europe, the US going for more active stories, Europe echoing the stereotypical East in preferring more passive characters.

Perhaps there is some truth in this, as immigrant countries like the US and many South American countries, Australia, and so on were first populated by people who made the hard decision to act, to immigrate, to struggle with the new country. Not to stay home and endure, to struggle in more subtle and hidden ways against oppressors and their hard daily lives.

But as time goes by different cultures and subcultures mix. Sometimes they enrich each other and artists create more complex works. Sometimes the works become more universal, and perhaps blander.

Over the last few decades, for instance, I’ve noticed that French and Italian cinema have created more action-oriented movies. Conversely, more US theater goers have come to enjoy slower and more nuanced movies. Where the conflicts include more internal and social conflicts as well as physical conflicts. Not all certainly, but more.

Ken · Apr 13, 2013

Laer Carroll said:
the US and many South American countries, Australia, and so on were first populated by people who made the hard decision to act, to immigrate, to struggle with the new country. Not to stay home and endure, to struggle in more subtle and hidden ways against oppressors and their hard daily lives.

... predisposing them to like stories that feature protags who battle anatags. Really neat evaluation !

Dave of Mars said:
Have you asked someone that speaks another language what an English word means in their language, and they stare into space for a while, until they shrug their shoulders and say there isn't really a word for it?

Different languages not only have different words, but they have different concepts, different ideas. If you've ever come across someone who just can't tell you what a foreign word means because there's no comparison then it shows that that language has an idea that English entirely lacks. When you learn a new language, not only are you learning new words and ways of speaking, but it's as if you're learning a brand new mental operating system. Stories written in other languages are thus probably going to have new conventions when it comes to storytelling and new ideas that you've never even considered, since you haven't even had the words to think them.

I asked a librarian to translate an English phrase into Japanese for a story I was working on and they reacted just like you said offering me an approximation in the end. Same with a Russian phrase, when I asked a Russian librarian. So you are most likely right. Sure wish I could learn another language besides English, for reasons you've stated. Just ain't swift enough to manage that unfortunately. Took French for four or five years in JHS and high school. All I got out of that is how to say hello and how to say, "I go the mountains." Je vais a la campangne :-(

lolchemist said:
I love stories without conflict

We should start a club or something

Laer Carroll · Apr 13, 2013

I speak four languages, at differing levels of fluency. I'm working on French now.

The staring into space is most often simply trying to remember the right word or phrase, not difficulty translating an alien idea. It's true that every language has its particular "taste" and nuances. But people are people everywhere and we share universal experiences, joy and sorrow, pain and pleasure, etc.

____________________________

On a personal level. Of my six novels only one has an over-arching plot, the main character’s pursuit of revenge on a ring of sex slavers who tried to kidnap her and force her into prostitution.

The latest is a young-adult novel about a young woman discovering and developing her burgeoning super-powers. The action is a series of baby steps, then longer steps, as she learns to fight crime and to help people. To grow into being a superhero. The emphasis is more on personal growth and development, less on the action.

The other four are somewhere in between, each including several longer and longer episodes leading up to a final long novella-length episode.

I’ve had criticisms of this, by people who wanted a more active over-arching plot. I appreciate their viewpoint. But I have to remind myself that I can’t please everyone. I have to focus on pleasing those readers who enjoy the more “European” approach to story that is what I’m trying to use and improve upon.

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