Oh dear. Times...oh quite a lot

Creepy. I had a suspicion before I clicked on this thread what it would be about. Creepy.

Creepy as shit. Assuming his story (including a lot of conspicuous modesty and keeping quiet about his awesomeness - yeah whatever dude) is true at all... Still creepy.

Quite a few SF writers and fans are tweeting how he went over the line--far over the line.

I was the first to respond to that thread on GR. It did not offend me at all. I certainly see the points the posters are trying to make about the language, and I'm sure everyone is entitled to their opinion.
However, now that it has been brought up here at AW, I will tell you what is disturbing to me.
It is disturbing to me that my inbox at GR was filled up with hate mail from people calling me names. All my books were immediately shelved as "authors-to-avoid," by someone immediately after the hate mail commenced.
I find the behavior of some of the people in that thread way more disgusting that what Hugh shared. I would have loved to continue the conversation in an adult manner, where we discussed why it offended or didn't offend, but being targeted for harassment is just a bit too much for me.

I truly appreciate the moderators here, and I get so much more value out of the conversations at AW. There have been times I have not always agreed with someone here, but it had always been respectful. I think it says a lot about this community that stuff like that does not go on here.

Wow that's awful! :-( bah humans!

Just a reminder; Mr. Howey is a member.

Though he would do very well to remember that SF fandom is small and insular, and there's a lot of people who know a lot of people.

Medievalist said:

Though he would do very well to remember that SF fandom is small and insular, and there's a lot of people who know a lot of people.

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This.

Well said, EBBrown.

If a person's first line of attack is some sophomoric shot at someone's gender or physical features, is their opinion following that really going to be worth consideration?

Mr Flibble said:

I purposefully haven't got into the comments, for just that reason. And it's...well it seems odd that you can't say 'Actually dude, this seems a bit off/over the line' without that happening.

Perhaps it was just poorly thought out on his part. I hope so..*is diplomatic*. But the reactions seem at least as problematic (again, why I decided to stay away from the comments).



One reason I hesitated to comment/post. However, yes SFF is smallish and this has gone down like a lead balloon all over my twitterfeed (and elsewhere), so I thought perhaps it might be worth discussion.

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Yeah <sigh> I have learned my lesson. Quite an eye opener, that whole business.

I hate gendered slurs. Hate hate hate them. That said, I know a lot of people who think nothing of using them because they don't have an awareness of the broader institutional implications. Heck, I used to be one of them.

In other words, I don't think he's necessarily a bad person for having used the word "bitch" . . . but as the comments have been coming in, I do hope he takes some time to sit down, do some research, and educate himself. I did look at the comments, and a lot of people pointed out the problems with his language very politely, so I hope he chooses to learn from them.

His comments about autism, however, and the denigrating comparisons to Amy from The Big Bang Theory, made me horribly, horribly depressed. For those unfamiliar with the show, Amy is a great character whom the show codes as non-neurotypical. It is inconceivable to me that someone would EVER consider her character an appropriate comparison for someone who was viciously rude, and I find it highly problematic. Comparing a rude person to a non-neurotypical person specifically because that person is non-neurotypical is like . . . aaaa, I can't even articulate how insulting and marginalizing and factually incorrect that is! It's like the people who compare homosexuality to pedophilia; I just want to scream inarticulately about argh not the same thing!

I'd been meaning to get around to Wool. Not so excited about it now.

slhuang said:

In other words, I don't think he's necessarily a bad person for having used the word "bitch" . . . .

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The real problem is that "bitch" is just the tip of the ice berg; the reference to the fantasy crotch-grabbing Hugo acceptance, and then spotting the poor woman in the audience and saying "suck it, bitch" is over the top.

I'm going to remember that in any context at all that involves Mr. Howey.

Because that's not just offensive, it's threatening.

Medievalist said:

The real problem is that "bitch" is just the tip of the ice berg; the reference to the fantasy crotch-grabbing Huge acceptance, and then spotting the poor woman in the audience and saying "suck it, bitch" is over the top.

I'm going to remember that in any context at all that involves Mr. Howey.

Because that's not just offensive, it's threatening.

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Oh, uh . . . wow. I didn't see his last line under the graphic. Until I read it I interpreted the crotch-grabbing as one of those stupid frat-guy-esque victory dances instead of . . . what he clearly means by it.

Okay, yeah, I am severely creeped out as well now, and substantially angrier.

He's now trying the "it was supposed to be a joke" explanation. I don't buy that. The tone was horribly threatening (and offensive and demeaning to all kinds of people). I was going to buy his first book. But now? I don't think so.

Isn't a joke supposed to be funny? Maybe I'm missing something here but I'm sure laughter is supposed to be involved somewhere.

Although I'm still finding all the 'modesty' in his post amusing. But I don't think he intended that to be funny.

It's notable that in the dream-fantasy of sexually harassing her in public, the crowd does not react badly. This is a reflection of SFF culture, where women who are harassed are told they deserved it, men are just being men, it's to be expected if you're a woman in a male-dominated environment (like a science fiction convention), other women don't mind being harassed and other excuses.

The moment he called her a bitch, he made it about her being a woman, and the fantasy just reinforced that.

This is in an environment where it isn't rare. The last issue of the Science Fiction Writers of America magazine has this in an article of advice for new writers: "[Barbie] has always been a role model for young girls, and has remained popular with millions of them throughout their entire lives, because she maintained her quiet dignity the way a woman should."

Women in science fiction are great, as long as they shut up and look pretty, like Barbie. They can't have opinions. They have no space to be mildly jerkish or hold unpopular opinions without being called crazy bitches. One such incident wouldn't get much comment, but this keeps happening. It's a quiet week when no one in genre decides to kick a woman for wanting a place in it, so for a lot of us, this was a "Oh no, not again" moment.

Something to consider before deciding it's not so bad.

slhuang said:

His comments about autism, however, and the denigrating comparisons to Amy from The Big Bang Theory, made me horribly, horribly depressed. For those unfamiliar with the show, Amy is a great character whom the show codes as non-neurotypical. It is inconceivable to me that someone would EVER consider her character an appropriate comparison for someone who was viciously rude, and I find it highly problematic. Comparing a rude person to a non-neurotypical person specifically because that person is non-neurotypical is like . . . aaaa, I can't even articulate how insulting and marginalizing and factually incorrect that is! It's like the people who compare homosexuality to pedophilia; I just want to scream inarticulately about argh not the same thing!

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...and that's the other point. You don't get a free pass for using crazy as an insult because you said non-neurotypical people are your best buds. Or if you are yourself.

MacAllister said:

Yeah. I'm disappointed, too. Post-apocalyptic fantasy is usually right up my alley - but this puts Mr. Howey squarely in the OSC category, when deciding how to spend my reading dollars.

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The obliviousness to how close fannish connections are goes hand-in-hand with his "I was only joking."

He wasn't joking. He's certainly not going to be on my lists for panels or book reccs.