Interesting, worrying article by Scott Turow

Status
Not open for further replies.

Manuel Royal

Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
4,484
Reaction score
437
Location
Atlanta, Georgia
Website
donnetowntoday.blogspot.com
The Slow Death of the American Author.

This really struck me:
Scott Turow said:
Best-selling authors have the market power to negotiate a higher implicit e-book royalty in our advances, even if our publishers won’t admit it. But writers whose works sell less robustly find their earnings declining because of the new rate, a process that will accelerate as the market pivots more toward digital.

And there are many e-books on which authors and publishers, big and small, earn nothing at all. Numerous pirate sites, supported by advertising or subscription fees, have grown up offshore, offering new and old e-books free.


The pirates would be a limited menace were it not for search engines that point users to these rogue sites with no fear of legal consequence, thanks to a provision inserted into the 1998 copyright laws. A search for “Scott Turow free e-books” brought up 10 pirate sites out of the first 10 results on Yahoo, 8 of 8 on Bing and 6 of 10 on Google, with paid ads decorating the margins of all three pages.



If I stood on a corner telling people who asked where they could buy stolen goods and collected a small fee for it, I’d be on my way to jail. And yet even while search engines sail under mottos like “Don’t be evil,” they do the same thing.
Often I feel like I missed out on the career I could have had -- not only because I'm getting old, but because of the changes in the world of publishing. I started writing seriously in 1976; if I'd stuck with it and started getting published, none of this stuff would've been an issue because it didn't exist yet.
 

Pearl

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 14, 2009
Messages
523
Reaction score
35
Location
NYC
Those piracy sites worry me. I don't understand why nothing is done to stop piracy and other illegal activity online. The Internet has been around for almost 20 years, and illegal issues became more common about 15 years ago. What's taking so long to police the Internet? I know it is tricky and complex, but I think things like piracy, harassment and such have been going on for too long to ignore.

Just my two cents.
 

ElaineA

All about that action, boss.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 17, 2013
Messages
8,582
Reaction score
8,521
Location
The Seattle suburbs
Website
www.reneedominick.com
My gut instinct to this was that the House and Senate could nip this in the bud pretty easily with a little legislation and then I remembered how much money Google, Yahoo and Microsoft have to throw around on campaigns. It's exactly as Turow described: taking a fee for promoting piracy. Openly and without fear of repercussion.

My only question was why Turow qualifies this as the death of the "American Author." I'd be curious to find out what protections European authors have that American authors do not, if any of our intrepid British and EuroZone authors care to chime in. I understand the library fee (a small one, but better than American libraries do). Are there also differences in copyright law and internet piracy enforcement in those areas? Just curious...
 

thothguard51

A Gentleman of a refined age...
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
9,316
Reaction score
1,064
Age
72
Location
Out side the beltway...
People uploading free pirated versions of book more than likely would not have bought them anyway. Still it ticks my unpublished ass off that they can even do this.

You wanna get the governments involved in stopping this action, put wiki-leaks-leaks on those sites. The governments will shut them down...eventually.
 

A.P.M.

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 20, 2010
Messages
924
Reaction score
182
I've seen sites where my books are pirated and every time I want to leap through the screen and strangle the people who steal them. Every sale counts, and this goes double for newbie or small-time authors.

I do like to think, though, that for every person who pirates a book there are many others who buy them legitimately.
 

ElaineA

All about that action, boss.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 17, 2013
Messages
8,582
Reaction score
8,521
Location
The Seattle suburbs
Website
www.reneedominick.com
That a lot of it isn't in the US?

I guess I'm not really sure what you mean. I had a whole answer written but now that I look again, I think I'm not clear about what you're saying. So rather than post an idiotic response, I'd better wait for clarification. Is it that you are saying that the piracy isn't in the US therefore legislation wouldn't apply to the pirates?
 

kuwisdelu

Revolutionize the World
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
38,197
Reaction score
4,544
Location
The End of the World
Oh joy another piracy thread...

A Internet search engine that doesn't actually search the Internet ceases to be a useful search engine.

What's taking so long to police the Internet?

Because why would you want to kill the Internet?

ETA: Before anyone accuses me of approving or condoning piracy, I'm not. I just find the prospect of an Internet "policed" the way some would like it to be a far more terrifying prospect.
 
Last edited:

buz

edits all posts at least four times
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 11, 2011
Messages
5,147
Reaction score
2,040

Pearl

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 14, 2009
Messages
523
Reaction score
35
Location
NYC
I don't really trust anyone to police the entire internet without fucking up the whole thing indiscriminately.

A compelling example.

I'm not looking to kill the Internet, I just find it disturbing that so much crap happens and not just piracy (harassment, revenge porn,etc.) and there's no way to stop it. It's just sad to me. *shrugs*
 

Beachgirl

Not easily managed
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 5, 2012
Messages
3,848
Reaction score
232
Location
On a beach, of course.
That a lot of it isn't in the US?

I guess I'm not really sure what you mean. I had a whole answer written but now that I look again, I think I'm not clear about what you're saying. So rather than post an idiotic response, I'd better wait for clarification. Is it that you are saying that the piracy isn't in the US therefore legislation wouldn't apply to the pirates?

It means that a lot of these pirated sites are not run out of the U.S. and there is little the U.S. can *or will* do about it. For instance, I know several authors whose books (mine included) were pirated by a site out of China. Not only does the site owner scoff at take-down notices, but he posts the sender's personal information on his site just to piss them off.

Having one of my books pirated chaps me to no end. But as was said upthread, most of the people who get books from pirated sites wouldn't have purchased it anyway. Heck, a lot of people who download from these sites do it just to have huge catalogues and never even read what they download. I personally see no sense to that, but I'm not going to waste my time trying to figure out why people do the stupid things they do. As for pirated sites that actually charge money, many of them are simply fronts to illegally obtain credit card information, so I figure the people who fork over their card info to these bastards will get what they deserve eventually.
 

ElaineA

All about that action, boss.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 17, 2013
Messages
8,582
Reaction score
8,521
Location
The Seattle suburbs
Website
www.reneedominick.com
Oh joy another piracy thread...

Well, maybe for those of you who've been around long enough to make 25,000+ posts it seems repetitive, but for those of us who are newer, and who are responding to a recent opinion piece by a well-established author, I'm not sure the derision is fair.

This isn't about piracy, per se, but the huge companies driving searchers to the known piracy sites. You don't have to police the internet. If there is a "cost" to the search engine companies for participating in this, they can make a Cost-Benefit Analysis-based decision as to whether it's worth it to them. You're not shutting down the pirates or telling Google, Yahoo or MS they are committing a felony, but that they'll be fined for engaging in profiting off illegal trade. Just because it's happening on the internet doesn't make it special.

The funniest part is that Google and MS are locked in perpetual battle over proprietary code and whatnot. Somehow their own intellectual property is sacred while the writers, musicians, etc. whose works are pirated (and earning them a profit) must be lesser intellects and not worth protecting. I guess. Anyway, it seems disingenuous and hypocritical to me. But maybe I'm just a dumb writer.
 

kuwisdelu

Revolutionize the World
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
38,197
Reaction score
4,544
Location
The End of the World
This isn't about piracy, per se, but the huge companies driving searchers to the known piracy sites. You don't have to police the internet. If there is a "cost" to the search engine companies for participating in this, they can make a Cost-Benefit Analysis-based decision as to whether it's worth it to them. You're not shutting down the pirates or telling Google, Yahoo or MS they are committing a felony, but that they'll be fined for engaging in profiting off illegal trade. Just because it's happening on the internet doesn't make it special.

The funniest part is that Google and MS are locked in perpetual battle over proprietary code and whatnot. Somehow their own intellectual property is sacred while the writers, musicians, etc. whose works are pirated (and earning them a profit) must be lesser intellects and not worth protecting. I guess. Anyway, it seems disingenuous and hypocritical to me. But maybe I'm just a dumb writer.

But I find the idea that Google is driving or profiting from piracy to be a ludicrous argument with no intellectual merit. It would also be extremely non-trivial to automagically blacklist search results that point to piracy sites without breaking a lot of its functionality as a search engine.
 

ElaineA

All about that action, boss.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 17, 2013
Messages
8,582
Reaction score
8,521
Location
The Seattle suburbs
Website
www.reneedominick.com
It means that a lot of these pirated sites are not run out of the U.S. and there is little the U.S. can *or will* do about it.
Yep, totally get that. But we could do something to protect the copyright from the Giants sending people to the pirates. Those big 3 are all US based companies, one virtually in my backyard, and we could make it uncomfortable for them to earn money off the backs of pirates if we had the fortitude. But as you say, we don't.

As for pirated sites that actually charge money, many of them are simply fronts to illegally obtain credit card information, so I figure the people who fork over their card info to these bastards will get what they deserve eventually.

I'm a firm believer in karma. :D
 

kuwisdelu

Revolutionize the World
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
38,197
Reaction score
4,544
Location
The End of the World
Yep, totally get that. But we could do something to protect the copyright from the Giants sending people to the pirates. Those big 3 are all US based companies, one virtually in my backyard, and we could make it uncomfortable for them to earn money off the backs of pirates if we had the fortitude. But as you say, we don't.

You can report offending content to be removed from Google here.
 

kuwisdelu

Revolutionize the World
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
38,197
Reaction score
4,544
Location
The End of the World
Using Google to find a pirated copy of something to download is pretty entry level anyway. Experienced pirates have far better tools available to them.
 

Manuel Royal

Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
4,484
Reaction score
437
Location
Atlanta, Georgia
Website
donnetowntoday.blogspot.com
Thank you. I've bookmarked it for the unlikely day when I am published AND pirated. I yearn for that day. Honestly. ;)
I haven't had any books published yet, but for a while I was paid to write a fiction column. Several times I found that somebody (for reasons I don't know) had taken one of my columns, used search-and-replace to replace some of the words, and stuck it in a completely unrelated website. That was enough to make me want to kill. (Even though technically AOL owned the rights to my columns.)
 

ElaineA

All about that action, boss.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 17, 2013
Messages
8,582
Reaction score
8,521
Location
The Seattle suburbs
Website
www.reneedominick.com
Using Google to find a pirated copy of something to download is pretty entry level anyway. Experienced pirates have far better tools available to them.

I don't think Turow is saying there's anything to be done about the pirates. Obviously, that's impossible to stop. I believe the thrust of the article was that our government, if it's going to provide copyright protection, shouldn't be whittling away at the rights. And that giant multi-billion dollar companies should maybe have an obligation to take reasonable steps not to drive searchers to those sites. Yes, it's only a small piece of the pie, but it's something rather than nothing.

As you say, the functionality of the search might be impaired, but I have infinite respect for the abilities of programmers. Who'd 'a thought someone could make the wolves on Game of Thrones look so real? (Don't tell me they're real...)
 

kuwisdelu

Revolutionize the World
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
38,197
Reaction score
4,544
Location
The End of the World
I don't think Turow is saying there's anything to be done about the pirates. Obviously, that's impossible to stop. I believe the thrust of the article was that our government, if it's going to provide copyright protection, shouldn't be whittling away at the rights. And that giant multi-billion dollar companies should maybe have an obligation to take reasonable steps not to drive searchers to those sites. Yes, it's only a small piece of the pie, but it's something rather than nothing.

But no search engine drives people to pirate sites. You get what you search for.

I don't think copyright infringement should be a criminal offense anyway (and for a long time it wasn't — only a specific subset of copyright infringement is a criminal offense). It should stay a civil offense.

I don't think it's the government's job to police piracy any more than it's their job to provide security guards to malls or install security cameras in department stores.

As you say, the functionality of the search might be impaired, but I have infinite respect for the abilities of programmers. Who'd 'a thought someone could make the wolves on Game of Thrones look so real? (Don't tell me they're real...)

No one's ever even made a perfect porn filter, and there's more money in that.
 

AlienGirl

Banned
Joined
Oct 14, 2011
Messages
253
Reaction score
25
To me it's more of a question of why does it hit writers so hard... Sort of depressing that all we have is words, we can't let people into our imagination in an interactive way like musicians and filmmakers. So there is no real experience to sell, only words.

And words, well...Information is free. That goes for education (you can copyright textbooks but not physics), no logical reason why it shouldn't go for fiction, really. It's not a tangible product. Neither is music nor films in the digital age and as far as I know, those industries are still thriving despite the fact they are pirated tons more than books are - reading is a minority thing as it is.

You can't perform a book live or stream it in a cinema to have people pay for that. Authors don't have fans in the same sense musicians and actresses do. So there won't be this sense of support, of buying a book because you want to see this particular author succeed. No hype over the person rather than the books, of why this author is the best, most talented etc. So the author might as well be anyone in most people's eyes.

And anyone can write a story. A good one, maybe not, but everyone has an imagination all the same. And most people's tastes in art is not refined at all. So all it takes to succeed as far as popularity to the masses is imagination.

So how do you make imagination valuable, as if yours is better than others somehow? Tough. I think this battle is already lost. Screenwriting might be the new way for novelists in the future, with films becoming more dynamic and complex. And someday there will maybe be a way to create your own virtual world and have people experience it for a fee, and be inside the story like in a videogame. So being able to create good characters and tell a good, realistic story will be a big thing. And so being a good writer will be rewarded because not anyone can do that.

Until then, I think authors will be underdogs, unless they're the 0.000001% whose story really blows up. Or have connections. Or crazy luck.
 

sunandshadow

Impractical Fantasy Animal
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 17, 2005
Messages
4,827
Reaction score
336
Location
Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Website
home.comcast.net
I'm not looking to kill the Internet, I just find it disturbing that so much crap happens and not just piracy (harassment, revenge porn,etc.) and there's no way to stop it. It's just sad to me. *shrugs*
That's not an internet problem at all. I know half a dozen people who are basically abused by their bosses but afraid to quit because it's so chancy to find another job. Not to mention the eternal problem of children bullying each other. It's a human nature problem.
 

ElaineA

All about that action, boss.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 17, 2013
Messages
8,582
Reaction score
8,521
Location
The Seattle suburbs
Website
www.reneedominick.com
I don't think it's the government's job to police piracy any more than it's their job to provide security guards to malls or install security cameras in department stores.

You've conflated the issues neatly. Neither Turow, nor I, said it was the government's job to police piracy. Turow said the government has chipped away at the rights given in the Constitution. My point, that the companies should have an obligation, isn't a matter of government decree. I wish that they recognized the intellectual property of a writer, a filmmaker or a musician as keenly as they do their own. But they don't.


No one's ever even made a perfect porn filter, and there's more money in that.

Touche. But it doesn't mean they can't. It just means they don't. Since this is a writer's website, I'm not going to argue on porn's behalf. I'm sure they have their own provider-bonding sites.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.