Benefits of an MFA?

Ridley · Apr 7, 2013

So I have a question for everyone...
I decided to apply for an MFA program and I was accepted (yay), but I am seriously questioning the benefits of the program. How much does an MFA really help if you're not looking to become a professor? I've read online the degree itself does not do much in terms of breaking into the publishing field. How true is this? Though I love the idea of being able to hone my writing skills and learn from those more knowledgeable than myself, I guess I'd like a more clear idea of exactly what it is I'm getting into! Thanks to anyone with feedback

Mr. Anonymous · Apr 7, 2013

we've been having this discussion, more or less, here, if you want to take a look: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266394

IMO, it can definitely be worth it, both in terms of the opportunity it gives you to grow as a writer, and in terms of the connections you can make.

But it does make a difference which program you got into. Some programs offer full funding. Some do not. Unless you're sure you can afford it, it might not be the best good idea to get into debt over an MFA, especially if you're not interested in teaching.

Also, the quality of the faculty varies, again, depending on the program. You want to make sure that the faculty at the program you got into are faculty you want to spend 2-3 years learning from.

gettingby · Apr 7, 2013

I will say that I have seen quite a few anti-MFA posts. I am starting an MFA program in the fall. The reason I am going is to become a better writer and get to fully focus on it for the next few years. My program is fully funded plus a stipend. Those are the benefits, I think.

I am wondering why you are questioning it now, after you got in.

Ridley · Apr 7, 2013

Thanks for re-directing me, I wasn't sure if I was posting in the right place. I'm questioning it now because I don't start until the fall, and I know that it's a big commitment time and money-wise. I won't be going into debt but I also won't be able to work my current well-paying full time job either. I truly want to go but I just have some doubts on whether or not it's worth it.

Deleted member 42 · Apr 7, 2013

Ridley said:
Thanks for re-directing me, I wasn't sure if I was posting in the right place. I'm questioning it now because I don't start until the fall, and I know that it's a big commitment time and money-wise. I won't be going into debt but I also won't be able to work my current well-paying full time job either. I truly want to go but I just have some doubts on whether or not it's worth it.

Talk to faculty in the school you're contemplating; the department should have a graduate adviser that's part of the department's staff.

That person would be a good starting point. You might also ask if you could talk to some alumni.

V1c · Apr 7, 2013

Ridley said:
Thanks for re-directing me, I wasn't sure if I was posting in the right place. I'm questioning it now because I don't start until the fall, and I know that it's a big commitment time and money-wise. I won't be going into debt but I also won't be able to work my current well-paying full time job either. I truly want to go but I just have some doubts on whether or not it's worth it.

It really depends on what YOu and only YOU are after in terms of if an MFA is worth it. If it's money and job security, MFA ain't gonna cut it. I'd be making at least 20K more than I am now had I stayed in the working world instead of taking three years to study the craft.

If it's to study the craft- well, it's good for that. It can also be INCREDIBLY frustrating for that. I went to an Ivy undergrad and my working class neighborhood thought that was pretentious. MFA was a thousand times worse. Not all people, mind you, but a good portion were very prescriptive in their writing and thinking and beleived only certain things were 'literature' and were quick to label people outsiders and then beneath them. Not that all programs are like that, either, but be aware that if you are going in for comraderie and art you may find something else. I got so incredibly sick of reading about one classmates fascination with his penis or one girls '50 shades of gray' fantasies of being a teacher and having to fend off the romances of 'older students just out of the military'

But if you want time, the MFA is good. And that was what I wanted. Time to write. Time to read. Time to indulge myself and practice and learn (and I learned way more outside the classroom, save for a couple really good classes). I didn't go into "more" debt because it was fully funded, but I didn't come out with the world waiting for me, either literary or working. It was fulfilling in some level of self, but nothing profound. It's a luxury.

Something to consider.

Jamesaritchie · Apr 8, 2013

Any type class, and degree, and type of education will be largely useless to at least half who get it. It's really the top ten percent, those who have the work ethic, the intelligence, and the talent, who benefit the most from any type of degree. Simply put, no degree makes much of a difference to most who get it. The person makes the degree, and not the other way around.

If YOU get all you can from the classes, if YOU take full advantage of all it offers, and if YOU have the talent to make proper use of what you learn there, the MFA will be far more than worth it, no matter what you do later in life. If can, if YOU are the right kind of person, be the deciding factor in your career.

Phaeal · Apr 8, 2013

Make sure that the program is supportive of the genre in which you want to work. Not just tolerant -- supportive, or even better, enthusiastic. I'd also want to contact people who'd been through the program for detailed info on the way it actually works. Also, on the interpersonal politics I'm likely to run into.

Since the only guaranteed gain will be the time you spend in the program, make sure it will indeed be a gain and not a pain.

OtterFactory · Apr 8, 2013

I think it's also important to consider your unique style with which you work with respect to writing.

My professors suggested I apply for an MFA, and at first I was conflicted because I didn't want to go straight into graduate school when I had just finished my undergrad. Ultimately, after a lot of introspection, I decided not to go because I write extremely slowly, and not only that, but my forte is in novel-writing (and poetry, but I didn't apply for poetry)--and a majority of the funded programs are focused on short-fiction, which ultimately I really don't care for. And, finally, I much prefer to work on my own than with other people, working at my own pace, and teaching myself the craft by reading as much as I can.

So, keeping all that in mind, it really didn't seem wise to accept their offer because I wouldn't have gotten anything unique out of the experience, except perhaps a sense of community. Plus I would have taken up a spot in which someone else might have benefited.

Like others said, if you go for the right reasons, then it would be extremely beneficial to you.**

ETA: ** Ignoring monetary concerns. My offer was from a fully-funded program; if I had had to go into debt the decision would have been a swift NO.

WeaselFire · Apr 8, 2013

Ridley said:
So I have a question for everyone...

Might look at:

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266394

Jeff

Terie · Apr 8, 2013

WeaselFire said:
Might look at:

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums...y first reply to the OP already linked to. ;)

GeorgeK · Apr 9, 2013

On the teaching side, a master's degree would qualify you to teach at a community college or a 100 or 200 level class at a university if that university even accepts any masters for teaching positions. Most of them only accept doctoral degrees for teaching positions. A master's degree is also not a teaching certificate which most high schools would require for you to teach there.

shaldna · Apr 9, 2013

I did a Masters for shits and giggles. No, seriously. I love to write, I'm already very qualified in my professional field, and several others, and the opportunity came up, so I went for it. I studied for fun and I loved every second of it. Do I think it will help my writing career? Not really, that's not really the focus of the course. Do I think it helped me think about my writing in a different way? For sure.

Like any other course, you get out what you put in. My goal going in wasn't to improve my writing career prospects, I just wanted to learn and be around like minded folk.

mayqueen · Apr 9, 2013

GeorgeK said:
On the teaching side, a master's degree would qualify you to teach at a community college or a 100 or 200 level class at a university if that university even accepts any masters for teaching positions. Most of them only accept doctoral degrees for teaching positions. A master's degree is also not a teaching certificate which most high schools would require for you to teach there.

This. I'm a doctoral candidate and I adjunct at other schools in my area. If you want a full-time faculty position, an MFA isn't going to help you at all.

But, if you want time to study your craft and build connections in the publishing world, and if it makes sense for you financially, I say go for it.

Axordil · Apr 10, 2013

I suspect for many, the greatest value of an MFA is that it provides a "Real Reason" to build up the writing habit and associated mental musculature. To which I say: whatever works, works.

I do believe there is value in being in the constant company of writers, physically or virtually, and MFA programs accomplish that too. It's not even a "misery loves company" thing so much as...well, go read the "Things non-writers say to us" thread.

A friend (with a novel published through a small press, so he wasn't exactly new at this) went to Vancouver for an MFA program. He was at a point in his professional and personal life where it was possible, and he seems to be thriving. It will be instructive to read his prose when he returns.

djf881 · Apr 14, 2013

Ridley said:
So I have a question for everyone...
I decided to apply for an MFA program and I was accepted (yay), but I am seriously questioning the benefits of the program. How much does an MFA really help if you're not looking to become a professor? I've read online the degree itself does not do much in terms of breaking into the publishing field. How true is this? Though I love the idea of being able to hone my writing skills and learn from those more knowledgeable than myself, I guess I'd like a more clear idea of exactly what it is I'm getting into! Thanks to anyone with feedback

An MFA is not a professional degree that gives you a credential for any job, other than maybe teaching MFAs. The purpose of an MFA program is to give you two years to polish your craft without having to work a non-writing job to feed yourself.

I think there are two kinds of MFA programs: The first offers generous subsidies to bring talented young writers to the campus to teach undergrads and participate in the campus art scene. These are the programs you'll want to look at. They are full-time degrees and you will have to move to where the school is located.

The funding available at these programs should be sufficient to fully cover your tuition, fees and board, and many will pay you some kind of stipend if you teach.

The second kind of MFA program exists to extract money from wannabe writers. This is any MFA you have to pay for, whether it's at Columbia or some low-residency part-time for-profit outfit. I think you should avoid any MFA that is not fully funded.

Sometimes, professors at prestigious MFA programs can refer you to agents who don't otherwise read submissions from new authors. Other than that, you're still coming in through the slushpile. Mentioning your MFA may make some agents slightly more likely to request your manuscript, but only if you are a graduate of a top program.

amergina · Apr 14, 2013

Well, this "wannabe" writer found her low-residency MFA program rather useful, for what it's worth.

I do also have a BA from a "real" writing program. I found my "wannabe" MFA much more useful, as it actually talked about the business of writing.

But whatever.

thethinker42 · Apr 14, 2013

djf881 said:
I think there are two kinds of MFA programs: The first offers generous subsidies to bring talented young writers to the campus to teach undergrads and participate in the campus art scene. These are the programs you'll want to look at. They are full-time degrees and you will have to move to where the school is located.

The funding available at these programs should be sufficient to fully cover your tuition, fees and board, and many will pay you some kind of stipend if you teach.

The second kind of MFA program exists to extract money from wannabe writers. This is any MFA you have to pay for, whether it's at Columbia or some low-residency part-time for-profit outfit. I think you should avoid any MFA that is not fully funded.

Okay, I'm a little confused. With few exceptions, everyone I know who's earned a graduate degree has paid for it. I don't understand how paying tuition and such means you're getting what sounds like a worthless degree from a place that, quote, "exists to extract money from wannabe writers". Not everyone is able to take advantage of full-time residency programs, and the part-time non-residency programs are a godsend for those people. I'm failing to understand how that is a bad thing or automatically means the program is only to take money from wannabe writers.

kaitie · Apr 14, 2013

Not to mention there are fewer financial aid opportunities for master's degrees in general. There might be a couple of scholarships available, and maybe a couple of assistanceships, but there are never going to be enough to cover every person, and often those positions don't cover full tuition. There's a reason so many people (myself included) end up paying for our master's degrees with loans. There just aren't the same opportunities as there are for undergrad degrees. I wasn't in the money-maker for my school, btw, and I still came out with an awful lot in student loans.

School programs have to make money. Professors have to be paid, supplies bought, etc. If a school is actually able to pay for all students to attend for free, that money is coming from somewhere. Having to pay for a program doesn't make it a leech.

Programs should be evaluated based on who the professors are and the success of students who graduated. A program that covers tuition could be terrible, and one that students go into massive debt for might be fantastic. That's why it's always important to consider these things before choosing any program.

My boyfriend is currently working on a MS at a highly competitive school. He chose it because the students who graduate have a very high employment rate and tend to get paid more than those graduating from other universities, and the professors are among the top in the field. Even with a GA, he's still paying quite a bit for it.

That's the nature of higher education. Any school that's just taking in "wannabe" writers (I really dislike this term, because I think so many of us are "wannabe" writers) and churning them out to make money, they won't have a high rate of success. Choose accordingly.

Maryn · Apr 14, 2013

Whether your master's is funded depends largely on the field of study. I have two kids in grad school. One is having to pay for everything, although a program offset a small amount of that. For now, he's stopping at his master's to see what the job market in the field is doing.

The other is finishing up a free ride to a PhD, having received a stipend which pays X amount per semester up to a certain number of semesters. If you "live cheap," you can live on it. In that field, the rule of thumb is that if you are not offered a deal like that, you shouldn't even consider the program.

Maryn, just sayin' what she knows to be true

blacbird · Apr 14, 2013

Framed and hung, the diploma helps keep the dust off a small portion of a wall.

caw

thehundreds · Apr 14, 2013

As far as there not being jobs for people who get their MFA...

At the end of the day, I think we're all in this to be published. If you're published -- in the wholly traditional sense, with either the slowly trickling number of short stories getting placed in semi-acclaimed or acclaimed journals/mags, or if you get a book placed with an established publisher, or any combination of these two options -- your MFA coupled with this success will inevitably lead to teaching opportunities if you so desire to seek them out.

Many slow writers who are successful teach because they simply can't produce enough to work live comfortably as being a writer alone, or they don't want to freelance.

So no -- getting a MFA won't lead to jobs. But finding success in the field you're so passionate about will put you in a good position to rise above the others who are simply sitting on their MFA after having had 2-3 years of free time to write.

Deleted member 42 · Apr 14, 2013

kaitie said:
]Any school that's just taking in "wannabe" writers (I really dislike this term, because I think so many of us are "wannabe" writers) and churning them out to make money, they won't have a high rate of success. Choose accordingly.

Any school doing that is not going to have solide accreditation or faculty, either.

This kind of problem is one of the reasons I tell students applying for any degree at any level to talk to currently enrolled students as well as alums.

Anyone pursuing a graduate degree with an eye towards employment in the field should also look very closely at placement, not just in the aggregate, but on the individual level. Are graduates being offered jobs? What kind of jobs? Where? How do they feel about their education in retrospect?

Deleted member 42 · Apr 14, 2013

thehundreds said:
Many slow writers who are successful teach because they simply can't produce enough to work live comfortably as being a writer alone, or they don't want to freelance.

I would strongly urge anyone pursuing any degree in the humanities with an eye towards a teaching career go peruse the ads in The Chronicle of Higher Education and in Higher Education.

Ken · Apr 14, 2013

... cost of a Masters: $20,000 plus.
Cost of a 12-pk of PaperMate disposable pens and Marble notebook: $4.99 plus tax.

(That's not to devalue education. Just to point out that it is an investment!)

Benefits of an MFA?

Ridley

Mr. Anonymous

Just a guy with a pen & a delusion

gettingby

Ridley

Deleted member 42

V1c

Hmmmmm

Jamesaritchie

Phaeal

Whatever I did, I didn't do it.

OtterFactory

WeaselFire

Benefactor Member

Terie

Writer is as Writer does

GeorgeK

ever seeking

shaldna

The cake is a lie. But still cake.

mayqueen

practical experience, FTW

Axordil

Is this thing on?

djf881

AW Addict

amergina

Pittsburgh Strong

thethinker42

Abnormal Romance Author

kaitie

With great power comes

Maryn

At Sea

blacbird

thehundreds

Deleted member 42

Deleted member 42

Ken