Man under a tree - Emergency Services actions?

Maythe · Mar 20, 2013

I'm writing a short story in which I've dropped a tree on a character. The two chainsaws are under the tree along with the victim who is rapidly dying - he was unwisely trying to cut out one stuck saw with the other when disaster struck - the tree rolled and crushed him. I've managed to get the air ambulance paramedics on the scene but now I'm wondering how the emergency services/fire brigade would go about moving the tree from the victim. Bring their own saws and cut him out? Borrow a tractor from the landowner? Or some kind of jacking system?

The victim is going to die and this will be blatantly obvious to the attending paramedic - there's enough blood to suggest that somewhere under the tree is a chainsaw injury as well as the fact that a massive tree across the torso will generally do for most people.

The victim's sister, also a trained tree surgeon and my MC, is on site but probably not in a fit state to cut her own brother out from under a tree even if she had a saw. There is a supernatural element to this story in a 'the woodland killed him' kind of way.

It probably doesn't affect the answers much but my story is set in the UK.

Edited to add - vehicles can't access the site easily. A tractor could but probably not a fire truck. My MC could go get the tractor if she can stay calm that long...

waylander · Mar 20, 2013

Possibly try to lift it with airbags

ElaineA · Mar 20, 2013

In my experience, there are two types of people in an emergency: the panic or just-check-out type and the Dr. Spock-type. So your MCs response is going to depend of which general type she is. Is she going to panic or is she going to be analytical? Is she willing to risk her own safety to try to save her brother? I guess part of if depends on how much she loves her brother (whether they're close or distant).

I'm not sure what good a tractor would be. Are you thinking knock the tree trunk with the bucket and make it roll off the guy? Seems like that would cause more harm than good. Couldn't they rig a wire to the tree and have the helicopter lift it clear?

benbenberi · Mar 20, 2013

Not an EMS, but it seems to me a big jack or two would probably do what's immediately necessary -- lift the tree enough to slide the victim clear. You don't have to actually remove the tree, just get it out of the way enough to move the guy. A heavy-duty jack should be capable of that, as long as the ground isn't too spongy and the guy's not totally tangled in branches (in which case you probably need to cut some of those away to free him). If not a jack, some of those honking big airbags might work. I don't know what's in an air ambulance kit, but if they knew the kind of emergency they were called out on they may have been able to bring some equipment for the situation.

Maythe · Mar 20, 2013

I was thinking she'd put the front forks on the tractor, attach a strop round the tree and the forks and attempt to lift it enough for him to be removed but that might tip the tractor as it's a pretty big tree which would weigh several tons.

So far she's reacted fairly rationally although she's obviously very stressed.

@Waylander Is that a standard method of lifting heavy things for the emergency services? They would need power of some sort for that I'd assume.

waylander · Mar 20, 2013

I think that is how the fire brigade lift heavy items e.g. cars that have people trapped underneath. Do they have portable compressors to run them? I don't know but it seems possible.

clee984 · Mar 20, 2013

benbenberi said:
Not an EMS, but it seems to me a big jack or two would probably do what's immediately necessary -- lift the tree enough to slide the victim clear. You don't have to actually remove the tree, just get it out of the way enough to move the guy.

I'd agree, in that kind of emergency, that would be my first thought - just lift the weight enough to pull the victim clear.

ULTRAGOTHA · Mar 20, 2013

I'll note that if one of the places causing a lot of bleeding, internally or externally, is under the tree, removing it could cause him to bleed out right there. The tree could be acting as a sort of touriquette.

So he could be aware and talking and die very soon after the tree is removed.

If that helps your action any.

Dandroid · Mar 20, 2013

From my experience this person is SOL....

C.H. Valentino · Mar 20, 2013

Maythe said:
I'm writing a short story in which I've dropped a tree on a character. The two chainsaws are under the tree along with the victim who is rapidly dying - he was unwisely trying to cut out one stuck saw with the other when disaster struck - the tree rolled and crushed him. I've managed to get the air ambulance paramedics on the scene but now I'm wondering how the emergency services/fire brigade would go about moving the tree from the victim. Bring their own saws and cut him out? Borrow a tractor from the landowner? Or some kind of jacking system?

However is fastest and safest. We took a flipped combine machine off a guy with another combine once. That was pretty intense.

Maythe said:
The victim is going to die and this will be blatantly obvious to the attending paramedic - there's enough blood to suggest that somewhere under the tree is a chainsaw injury as well as the fact that a massive tree across the torso will generally do for most people.

In crushing and cutting of the legs, you are looking at severing the femoral artery - with pressure (like the tree) - he might get 15-20 mins. Once the tree is removed - 3-5 tops. Then, he's dead.

Maythe said:
The victim's sister, also a trained tree surgeon and my MC, is on site but probably not in a fit state to cut her own brother out from under a tree even if she had a saw. There is a supernatural element to this story in a 'the woodland killed him' kind of way.

It probably doesn't affect the answers much but my story is set in the UK.

Edited to add - vehicles can't access the site easily. A tractor could but probably not a fire truck. My MC could go get the tractor if she can stay calm that long...

Like I mentioned, WHATEVER you got, we will use on scene. Emergencies, like this, mean creative thinking and flawless execution of them on the first try. Sometimes it goes well, sometimes... people die.

Maythe · Mar 20, 2013

Oh I'm liking the idea of removing the tree and then he dies. And double whammy for her if she's the one using the tractor to move it... I feel like I'm torturing my MC - I shouldn't be enjoying it!

@Dandroid what does SOL mean?
@CH Valentino That combine incident must have been a nightmare.

Buffysquirrel · Mar 20, 2013

SOL -- shit out of luck

I think the tractor wouldn't have the weight to balance the tree. Depending on the size of the tree.

Dandroid · Mar 20, 2013

Look into compartment syndrome

King Neptune · Mar 20, 2013

How big is ther tre? IOf it is so big that the people from the local fire company can't get it off him, then digging some of the soil out from under would work. If you are killing the guy off, then it doesn't make much difference. You could have them work for half an hour, and then the victim will die regardless of what they try, so anything will do. If he was using a chainsaw that didn't have a working chain brake, then he should expect to die. Bit the injury wold be more likely a severed foot than a thigh cut. I have nicked boots a fair number of times, but I have never cut anything higher with a chainsaw.

Seriously, if I found myself under a tree that I cut down, and that has come close to happening, then I would dig the soil under me away until I could slide out. If the treetrunk was not supported so that it followed me down the hole, then I would pile the soil under the trunk so that it would stay at the same level.

It could be a suspenseful story.

ULTRAGOTHA · Mar 20, 2013

Maythe said:
I feel like I'm torturing my MC - I shouldn't be enjoying it!

But... but....

That's half the fun!

"No, no. Go ahead. Give him morphine! Let him crash!" <--Advice I received from a gleeful doctor when discussing medical options for tortured MC.

jclarkdawe · Mar 20, 2013

It depends upon how stable the patient is. If compartment syndrome is there in full force, I might have a lot of time to deal with the patient without causing more harm. If the patient is actively bleeding and going downhill fast, I might have no time.

If I have no time, whatever I've got and as fast as possible. Ideally though, I'd go with airbags. Slide them under the tree and inflate (portable air tanks). Airbags are best because they cradle the tree as it rises, and we don't get a roll problem.

Rescues carry chainsaws, lift equipment, and moving equipment. I'd suggest going down to your local fire/rescue and asking for a tour and their thoughts on how they'd go about this.

Patient is going to have two large bore IVs inserted, be put on O2, a backboard ready to rock and roll, before moving the tree. If compartment syndrome is present, you will not have time after moving the tree to get this stuff organized.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

cornflake · Mar 20, 2013

Firefighters carry many a power tool - the firehouse local to me has chainsaws, circular saw, etc., on the basic truck. They test them very often, taking all that sort of gear out and running the blades to make sure they're in working order, have power, etc. So it may be a combo approach, where they'd saw off parts of the tree to make what's on him a more manageable piece.

Maythe · Mar 20, 2013

Thanks everyone this is all really helpful

I Think the airbags would be the safest way to do it but the combo of cutting the tree up then using a tractor to move the remaining chunk might have more drama/potential for torturing my MC. I might have to rack up the possibility he'll survive otherwise it's all inevitable from the tree falling onwards and my ending will be 'meh'.

Maythe · Mar 20, 2013

King Neptune - I was thinking of a left arm injury - as the tree rolls it knocks his saw up and towards his left arm.

bellabar · Mar 21, 2013

If it's only an arm that is stuck, have you considered leaving the tree where it is and amputate the arm instead?

King Neptune · Mar 21, 2013

Maythe said:
King Neptune - I was thinking of a left arm injury - as the tree rolls it knocks his saw up and towards his left arm.

Just an arm pinned! Almost anyone could be out within ten minutes. Digging he soil away from under the pinned arm would free it easily and painlessly. If the ground is too rocky for that, then a large tree wouldn't grow there.

Dandroid · Mar 21, 2013

King Neptune said:
Just an arm pinned! Almost anyone could be out within ten minutes. Digging he soil away from under the pinned arm would free it easily and painlessly.

I am not so sure about that.

Maythe · Mar 21, 2013

No I meant the arm injury was the chainsaw injury. The tree trunk of a mature ash tree is across his torso, also pinning the injured arm.

King Neptune · Mar 21, 2013

Dandroid said:
I am not so sure about that.

It wouldn't hurt any more than it being pinned there.

King Neptune · Mar 21, 2013

Maythe said:
No I meant the arm injury was the chainsaw injury. The tree trunk of a mature ash tree is across his torso, also pinning the injured arm.

How did the character manage to injure his arm with a chainsaw. I suppose that it could be done, but modern chainsaws require both hands on the saw for it to operate, one to hold the saw and one to be holding the clutch on. It is possible to run one with one handle, but there is no control, and it is at arms-length. That's why foor and leg injuries are by far the most common chainsaw injuries.

Man under a tree - Emergency Services actions?

Maythe

waylander

Who's going for a beer?

ElaineA

All about that action, boss.

benbenberi

practical experience, FTW

Maythe

waylander

Who's going for a beer?

clee984

Bearded and serious

ULTRAGOTHA

Merovingian Superhero

Dandroid

C.H. Valentino

Wording!

Maythe

Buffysquirrel

Dandroid

King Neptune

ULTRAGOTHA

Merovingian Superhero

jclarkdawe

Feeling lucky, Query?

cornflake

practical experience, FTW

Maythe

Maythe

bellabar

figuring it all out

King Neptune

Dandroid

Maythe

King Neptune

King Neptune