welsh dark fae

ravenlea

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Does anyone know if there is a name for dark fae in welsh mythology? I found the fair folk - y tylwyth teg - but I can't find anything on dark fae. Do they have a name? I know they aren't classified like the seelie and unseelie but was hoping to have some distinction between the "good" and "bad" fairies
 

ClareGreen

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AFAIK, the distinction between 'good' and 'bad' Welsh Fae is mostly how they're feeling at the time. Also, in Wales stories typically end badly for everyone...
 

Rufus Coppertop

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Does anyone know if there is a name for dark fae in welsh mythology? I found the fair folk - y tylwyth teg - but I can't find anything on dark fae. Do they have a name? I know they aren't classified like the seelie and unseelie but was hoping to have some distinction between the "good" and "bad" fairies
I can't give you any references at the moment to back this up but I'm pretty sure that in many cases, "Fair folk" was a euphemism in case one of the "fair folk" was actually hovering about and there was a danger of being overheard by them.

I suspect that there might not be a word for dark fae in Welsh mythology because it's like having a word for wet rain.

Medievalist will know.
 

StormChord

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Tylwyth Teg refers to the more malicious of the faerie clans; the kinder fae were called Gwragged Anwn, analogous to the Seelie of Scottish mythology. You've got the right name if you want to talk about the bad, kid-stealing fae.
 

Theo81

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Tylwyth Teg refers to the more malicious of the faerie clans; the kinder fae were called Gwragged Anwn, analogous to the Seelie of Scottish mythology. You've got the right name if you want to talk about the bad, kid-stealing fae.

It's actually supposedly Gwragedd Annwn.

I'd advise making a distinction between Welsh folklore, Victorian nonsense, and localised traditions.
 

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Note that Annwn or Anwfn (medieval Welsh orthography) is the Welsh under-/other world. Note that that is not necessarily the land of the dead, though the dead may be found there, so can otherworld residents.
 

Maythe

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I don't remember hearing/reading any Welsh fairy stories with a happy ending. I have to admit to feeling suspicious of 'nice' fairies in the way I feel suspicious of 'nice' vampires.
 

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I don't remember hearing/reading any Welsh fairy stories with a happy ending. I have to admit to feeling suspicious of 'nice' fairies in the way I feel suspicious of 'nice' vampires.

It rather depends on how one defines fairy.
 

StormChord

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It's actually supposedly Gwragedd Annwn.

I'd advise making a distinction between Welsh folklore, Victorian nonsense, and localised traditions.

Ah, thanks for clearing that up. Welsh folklore is a mythology that I'm less clear on than most, so my sources were probably influenced by the aforementioned Victorian nonsense.
 

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Ah, thanks for clearing that up. Welsh folklore is a mythology that I'm less clear on than most, so my sources were probably influenced by the aforementioned Victorian nonsense.

It's so very complicated that I go to great lengths to avoid using the term fairy for anything that isn't English/Middle English.

And even then, there are problems.

g\Gwragedd is a plural genitive meaning "women/wives";

Annwn/ Annwfn is the Welsh otherworld. Etymologyically, it's something like "other world': to wit

Games Fairies Play said:
R. I. Thomson glosses Annwfn as An Dwuyn “fearfully deep”; “the not (this) world” (PPD p. 25–26 n. 44). Patrick Sims-Williams summarizes the possible etymologies for Annwfn as follows:

Patrick Sims-Williams said:
The term annwfn was doubtless understood as intensive an- plus dwfn ‘deep’ (cf anoddyn ‘abyss’ <an- + *wo- ‘under’ + dwfn), and this may indeed be the correct etymology, as Eric Hamp has noted. . . . Ifor Williams . . . suggested that the second element might be dwfn ‘world’(cf. Gaulish dubno-, dumno-) . . . With dwfn ‘world’ as the second element, the first could be an- < *n- ‘not’, hence ‘Not-World’ (Sims-Williams 1990, 62)

It is important to note that Annwfn is very much a different world; though it appears disconcertingly easy to pass from Wales into Annwfn, even crossing without being aware of it, it is a separate world, with its own kingdoms, rulers, peoples, and customs.