Which manual of style to use for novels?

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Fresie

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to check punctuation?

Yes, what surprises you so much? All manuals of style have a chapter devoted to punctuation. I always check my writing against my (admittedly dated) edition of Chicago Manual of Style, but the other day a couple of readers complained that my book apparently had "too many commas" so I thought I'd better check it against something more modern...
 
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WriterBN

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A style manual will only go so far. Commas can be used with discretion in many cases where the meaning of the sentence is unclear without them. It may help to post examples.
 

zarada

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Yes, what surprises you so much? All manuals of style have a chapter devoted to punctuation. I always check my writing against my (admittedly dated) edition of Chicago Manual of Style, but the other day a couple of readers complained that my book apparently had "too many commas" so I thought I'd better check it against something more modern...

sorry i see what you mean. it just didn't occur to me that other writers may go by what a manual says.

i use punctuation instinctively -- comma where I want the reader to slow down, semicolon where i want them to pause briefly, etc. like writerBN says, a style manual goes only so far... a novel is a living, breathing entity, while the style manual has more of a manufctured existence.
 

quicklime

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sorry i see what you mean. it just didn't occur to me that other writers may go by what a manual says.

i use punctuation instinctively -- comma where I want the reader to slow down, semicolon where i want them to pause briefly, etc. like writerBN says, a style manual goes only so far... a novel is a living, breathing entity, while the style manual has more of a manufctured existence.


you do realize commas are used for specific purposes, and semis are as well; you can join independent thoughts like this with a semi but you can't just put it in as a "pauser"...correct?

Failing that, you do realize an agent is likely to realize it, and you do realize what their most likely assumption will be regarding your (mis)use, right?


a style manual has limitations, like the fact you can use a well-placed fragment regardless of it being a fragment, but the only positive I can envision for the idea of putting things "where you feel" without regard for their function or correct usage comes to the next guy in line, as his work is likely to look that much better by comparison.
 

evilrooster

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Which manual of style would you suggest to check punctuation in a novel?

Realistically, they're much of a muchness. If your readers are saying you're overusing commas, I'd pay more attention to that as a separate problem than to any particular manual.

sorry i see what you mean. it just didn't occur to me that other writers may go by what a manual says.

i use punctuation instinctively -- comma where I want the reader to slow down, semicolon where i want them to pause briefly, etc. like writerBN says, a style manual goes only so far... a novel is a living, breathing entity, while the style manual has more of a manufctured existence.

A novel is a living, breathing entity, and grammar, punctuation and sentence structure are the skeleton that holds it up and gives it shape. Stretching the analogy, a style manual is like an anatomy text: it tells you that the knee bone is connected to the shin bone, so you can build the shape of living creature that you need.

Unless your instincts are very, very good, using punctuation instinctively is going to harm your ability to convey your meaning to your reader. Commas and semicolons do more than simply indicate where a reader should breathe.

A comma can be used to set a phrase, like this one, apart from a sentence. It can be used to delineate a sequence of words, phrases, or terms. It can even be used to address the reader, zarada.

Meanwhile, semicolons are used to join two sentences together. Each should be grammatically complete on its own; they merely share a topical relationship.

On a very practical level, people are a lot less likely to buy your work if your punctuation (and capitalization) aren't within grammatical norms. Unless you're James Joyce, readers don't like weird grammar. And the level of editing required to correct it is expensive and time-consuming.
 
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Polenth

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Personally, I find the style guides usually recommended far too American. I have my own set of guidelines based on common British English use. Plus, individual stories may have their own requirements that differ from normal (for novel-length, I write this up as a document). But it is important to have a standard and be consistent.
 

Fresie

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Thank you so much, guys! Yes, I think I can see your point now: you consider style manuals to be paper versions of the Word grammar check :) In this respect, I can't agree more. I just wanted to make sure I knew the rules and didn't abuse "instinctive punctuation". How, for instance, should I punctuate these two examples:

The land was now to our left and the sky to our right.

But the wind grew stronger, the waves bigger, and the swell heavier.


Instinctively (or most likely obeying some long-forgotten rule), I'd put commas after "sky" and "swell" but I suspect this is exactly what two of my readers meant by "too many commas". :)
 

Maythe

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Your existing commas, or lack of them, seem fine to me in those sentences but my grammar is also'instinctive' and I'm working on gaining a firmer knowledge base on the subject so will be interested in what others have to say.
 

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I would punctuate them exactly as they appear. Further commas would be excessive to my eye. Neither of those examples would drive me to reference to check either.

As far as style guides go I haven't really needed the big ones for narrative.

The Elements of Style is within reach as is an old guide from my college days called The Concise English Handbook. Anything that isn't covered there I generally fall back on the Internet for a recommendation (which is a potential landmine I suppose but hasn't burned me too bad so far ... beyond mixing metaphors.)
 
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wampuscat

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I'd start with the Chicago Manual of Style, assuming an American audience.
 

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Thank you so much, guys! Yes, I think I can see your point now: you consider style manuals to be paper versions of the Word grammar check :)

No, we don't.

Style manuals discuss all sorts of tiny things in great depth, such as when to use an en-dash and when an em-dash would be more appropriate, how to correctly punctuate ellipses, how text should be indented, and all sorts of other wonderful stuff. Word's grammar check just highlights things it interprets as grammar errors. The two are miles apart.

I'd start with the Chicago Manual of Style, assuming an American audience.

I wouldn't. CMOS is far too detailed and technical for most writers to need it, and it's very expensive to buy, too. A basic book on grammar and punctuation is all the OP needs, if that: there are plenty of guides to grammar and punctuation online, and more articles about them than I can count.
 

wampuscat

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I wouldn't. CMOS is far too detailed and technical for most writers to need it, and it's very expensive to buy, too. A basic book on grammar and punctuation is all the OP needs, if that: there are plenty of guides to grammar and punctuation online, and more articles about them than I can count.

Good to know! Thanks!
 
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