How do you decide WHERE to begin your story?

zarada · Feb 26, 2013

this applies primarily to novels, obviously, as short stories usually work themselves out.

i have been agionising over the rewriting of an existing WIP from an entirely new perspective, with new and expanded sobplots and characters, etc... BUT, i am absolutely lost as to where to start.

some main points already agreed upon (me and muse) in regards to the lifting of the curtain:

the MC must be present
the scene must be important to the MC or the story
there must be at least some tension, but NO whammies (can't hit the reader over the head right off the bat... where could we possibly go to from there??)
the whole of it must in a subtle way foreshadow the gist of it all.

but.... cannot for the life of me decide where, oh, where??

seun · Feb 26, 2013

Take five published books and read the openings to each. I'd bet all the the money in my pocket (about 3 quid) they start with someone interesting doing something interesting or at least experiencing something interesting.

Mr Flibble · Feb 26, 2013

Hard to say without knowing your story but where does it all start to go wrong for your MC? At what point will their life never be the same again? Start a paragraph or two before that...

zarada · Feb 26, 2013

seun said:
Take five published books and read the openings to each. I'd bet all the the money in my pocket (about 3 quid) they start with someone interesting doing something interesting or at least experiencing something interesting.

um, thanks, that's already verified and established -- see my 1 to 4. but i appreciate your chipping in

zarada · Feb 26, 2013

Mr Flibble said:
Hard to say without knowing your story but where does it all start to go wrong for your MC? At what point will their life never be the same again? Start a paragraph or two before that...

well, it's complicated. more like where the MC begins to see a glimmer of hope thing. but already done that, and i didn't like how it turned out. it makes it all too... predictable?

Mr Flibble · Feb 26, 2013

It's always complicated.

But perhaps you could expand so we can get where you're coming from? How would that make it predictable? etc.etc.

Kerosene · Feb 26, 2013

I like a slow rumble opening. That needs:
- Insert of character. Bring me a character I can care for, and showcase why I should care for them.
- Conflict, of some kind. Doesn't have to be the major one, but at the end of the chapter I need to see the major conflict.
- A goal. The character has to make up their minds to do something, either for the entire novel or the foreseeable future.
- Some kind of foreshadowing. "This is going to happen." And try to complicate that.
- Avoid prologues as much as possible for now. Focus on the opening first chapter, that's it.

Look at the ending (you have on in sight, right?). And ask yourself how everything starts in motion towards that.

EDT: You can make hope misleading. If someone is going to happen and we all know it, then distract us with something shiny until it happens--that's a surprise.

Chris P · Feb 26, 2013

WillSauger said:
I like a slow rumble opening. That needs:
- Insert of character. Bring me a character I can care for, and showcase why I should care for them.
- Conflict, of some kind. Doesn't have to be the major one, but at the end of the chapter I need to see the major conflict.
- A goal. The character has to make up their minds to do something, either for the entire novel or the foreseeable future.
- Some kind of foreshadowing. "This is going to happen." And try to complicate that.
- Avoid prologues as much as possible for now. Focus on the opening first chapter, that's it.

Look at the ending (you have on in sight, right?). And ask yourself how everything starts in motion towards that.

EDT: You can make hope misleading. If someone is going to happen and we all know it, then distract us with something shiny until it happens--that's a surprise.

As said above, it's always complicated. The opening to one of my novels was exactly these points here: a character deciding to do something (the goal) for a very good reason (caring about the character) despite reasons not to (the conflict) and subtle foreshadowing (foreshadowing) that it might not be such a good idea after all. Everyone hated it. I posted it here and could hear the yawns through my monitor. I ditched the chapter, added about 500 words to the beginning of chapter 2, then posted it as the opening, to rave reviews.

I'm not saying your advice is bad, Will, quite the opposite, but the problem with a formula is someone (like me) can look at it and say "but I've DONE that!" and still not have a workable opening (like I had--or didn't have, as the case may be).

What seems to be working better for me is to start like the OP mentioned about short stories: in the middle of something happening and let it work itself out. If the action is convincing enough, the reader will continue through and pick up the "set up" bits as he or she goes. True, someone can do this and still not have a workable opening, which is why it's always complicated. It's all in the execution and follow-through to the next part of the book.

zarada · Feb 26, 2013

Mr Flibble said:
It's always complicated.

But perhaps you could expand so we can get where you're coming from? How would that make it predictable? etc.etc.

heehee. i'm afraid this would take more of your and my time than we can spare right now. you'll just have to trust me :tongue

Mr Flibble · Feb 26, 2013

Um, well, not a lot more I can say then, really! Maybe study a few openings, see what works? Unless you could give us the potted version?

zarada · Feb 26, 2013

i agree with Will

i agree with Chris

it's just this... actual touching the tip of the pen to paper thing leaving behind a legible trail of ink. AND keep myself from tearing up the page before reaching the bottom. metaphorically speaking, as i use a laptop most of the time.

zarada · Feb 26, 2013

Mr Flibble said:
Um, well, not a lot more I can say then, really! Maybe study a few openings, see what works? Unless you could give us the potted version?

i believe that i will, in due course. thanks

Kerosene · Feb 26, 2013

Chris, I agree with you that sometimes a book needs to start in media res, but some not so much.
I write SFF, so I can get away with it more.
I'm just offering my thoughts in hope that they generate something.

Rhoda Nightingale · Feb 26, 2013

My beta tells me. Really.

The last two manuscripts I actually finished, I started in the wrong place. And either she, or someone in SYW, or someone in my workshop pointed out where I should have started. So right now, I still have no idea. I know that what they told me works better than what I had before, but I still don't understand quite why.

bearilou · Feb 26, 2013

Consider that your beginning will be more apparent on where you need to start once you've reached the end.

My process? I just pick a place that at first blush appears to be as close to the events of the story taking off and write from there. In the editing, after the story has been written, is when I determine whether I really started at the right place or not.

And funny...answering this question has illuminated where I was having problems in a short story I was writing and why it was taking me so beastly long to finish it.

...I've started in the wrong place!

Stevewritesbooks · Feb 26, 2013

Start as close to the action as you can. Start Late.

As far as your "Rule 3" - You can make the reader ask "Where do you go from THAT?" in your opening, as long as you've got a direction to go in. (I'm thinking of the bombastic intro to Saints Row 3 at the moment, but a book equivelent escapes me.)

Bufty · Feb 26, 2013

Originally posted by Zarada:

heehee. i'm afraid this would take more of your and my time than we can spare right now. you'll just have to trust me

Nope.

Wherever you start, remember the reader must have a reason to turn the page - he will not read on for ever simply because you have written stuff on the page.

What you have written must be interesting to read, but it must also lead somewhere, preferably sooner than later.

Routine is boring - so start your story at or very close to where your protagonist's routine is irreversably interrupted and he is forced to follow a path of no return.

That's about as vague as I can make it but still hopefully be of some help in assisting you to work out where to start.

Whatever you write should lead you on to what you write next -in other words future events unfold based upon previous events and what you have already written, so if you cannot get beyond the foot of page one- scrap it and start afresh.

CourtneyC · Feb 26, 2013

I'd say start your story where your MC is trying to do something towards their story goal (as opposed to trying to do the dishes). This is a hard question, and I may still not have gotten it right. I wrote my MS in chronological order, but after some feedback, went back and lopped off my first 3 chapters and replaced it with one paragraph. That allowed me to sprinkle in clues about what had already happened. I KNEW my original opening was important so I originally started there, but I kept trying to rush through the scene to get to the "good stuff," and my Betas protested that I wasn't giving the scene enough emotion.

Cutting my original beginning was liberating and helped me add suspense at my new opening. All best to you as you work through it for yourself. Other eyes are invaluable with this.

quicklime · Feb 26, 2013

seun said:
Take five published books and read the openings to each. I'd bet all the the money in my pocket (about 3 quid) they start with someone interesting doing something interesting or at least experiencing something interesting.

this, although not knowing your story we can't say "start at the apple-cart on Sunday morning" and give you a specific.

quicklime · Feb 26, 2013

zarada said:
um, thanks, that's already verified and established -- see my 1 to 4. but i appreciate your chipping in

yeah....just so you know, this sort of thing isn't helpful.

Seun gave you an ugly truth, but he was kind enough to give you a truth instead of a platitude. It has to start someplace interesting, but you also gotta take the wheel--we can offer suggestions, given some CLUE (which you haven't shared) what the story is about, but even then, you kinda gotta take the reins. Sorry if that doesn't seem helpful, but it is pretty much what everyone in-thread is saying, and none of them are colluding to make your life difficult.

Jamesaritchie · Feb 26, 2013

I don't really think of it in complicated terms, and I hate lists of what to do and how to do it. Short story or novel, I drop what I hope is an interesting character into an interesting situation, and let him work his way out of it.

In media res or no in media res, character and story need to be there immediately, or why would anyone keep reading?

zarada · Feb 26, 2013

quicklime said:
this, although not knowing your story we can't say "start at the apple-cart on Sunday morning" and give you a specific.

might as well ask you to write the story for me, huh?

zarada · Feb 26, 2013

quicklime said:
yeah....just so you know, this sort of thing isn't helpful.

Seun gave you an ugly truth, but he was kind enough to give you a truth instead of a platitude. It has to start someplace interesting, but you also gotta take the wheel--we can offer suggestions, given some CLUE (which you haven't shared) what the story is about, but even then, you kinda gotta take the reins. Sorry if that doesn't seem helpful, but it is pretty much what everyone in-thread is saying, and none of them are colluding to make your life difficult.

actually, platitudes (say, like 'taking the wheel') can often be of value.

have i by chance passed you on the right on I-75 a couple hours ago?

quicklime · Feb 26, 2013

zarada said:
might as well ask you to write the story for me, huh?

ok, my general policy is something like this: Everyone has an off day, it usually takes at least two instances of prickishness before I'm out. That said, you have three already:

the one quoted on top

"um, thanks, that's already verified and established -- see my 1 to 4. but i appreciate your chipping in"

"heehee. i'm afraid this would take more of your and my time than we can spare right now. you'll just have to trust me "

I'm entirely expendable, there's lots of good folks on this board. But I also doubt I'm the only one who does this.....if you're looking for advice, dissing the folks who take their time to give it isn't the greatest way to get it. And the sad fact is this is where a LOT of too-clever-by-half new writers fail, because they don't deal well with finding out, just maybe, they aren't the smartest kid in the class any longer. You came seeking help, but you're gonna severely limit the help you ever get.

Best of luck,
Quick

Bufty · Feb 26, 2013

You did say you were 'absolutely lost as to where to start'.

You're being given sound advice, friend.

'Thank you' is the recommended response.

zarada said:
might as well ask you to write the story for me, huh?

How do you decide WHERE to begin your story?

not afraid to leap

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fishing for little gods...

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