Is Adult POVs in YA Novel A Kiss Of Death?

twright · Feb 21, 2013

Someone raised the topic in the YA forum, about whether an adult POV is an automatic rejection in the YA market. I have a similar question that I wanted to put to agents (and editors).

I have a YA novel that has about 6 or 7 POVs, and at least half of them are adult. But even the adult POVs are about events and issues surrounding the MC. I've asked several of my beta readers whether they thought it really WAS a YA novel and so far the response (including a YA reader) was a unanimous yes...because the tone and flavor of the whole piece is consistently YA regardless of the POVs.

And yes, I know having that many POVs goes against all convention but let's assume for the sake of discussion that I'm a skillful enough writer to have pulled it off.

If, as far as agents and editors are concerned, adult POVs ARE the kiss of death, would it be pointless to market it as YA?

quicklime · Feb 22, 2013

I'm not an agent, but skillful presentation may be immaterial--if you have such an ensemble that 70% of your book is "old people thinking about the teen" I'm not sure you can market it as YA.

I'm not saying you are at 70%, just saying all your many characters may force you out of YA regardless of "skill" if you can't kill a couple off.

What % of the book is the actual kid, versus all these grown-ups?
What do they truly bring and are they needed?

those two questions may help folks answer your initial question more fully.

twright · Feb 22, 2013

quicklime said:
I'm not an agent, but skillful presentation may be immaterial--if you have such an ensemble that 70% of your book is "old people thinking about the teen" I'm not sure you can market it as YA.

I'm not saying you are at 70%, just saying all your many characters may force you out of YA regardless of "skill" if you can't kill a couple off.

What % of the book is the actual kid, versus all these grown-ups?
What do they truly bring and are they needed?

those two questions may help folks answer your initial question more fully.

The main character is YA, and the whole story revolves around her, which is why I would consider it YA.

As for percentage of characters that are teen??? If you applied that to the Twilight books, hell...most of the characters are hundreds of years old. Well, maybe not, but the point is that I'm not sure percentage can be an ironclad rule.

Theo81 · Feb 22, 2013

twright said:
The main character is YA, and the whole story revolves around her, which is why I would consider it YA.

As for percentage of characters that are teen??? If you applied that to the Twilight books, hell...most of the characters are hundreds of years old. Well, maybe not, but the point is that I'm not sure percentage can be an ironclad rule.

Well, I think they self-identify as teen, don't they? I assume that's why Edward goes to high-school, but the sum total of my knowledge comes from not being able to avoid those books completely.

I don't think it's an auto rejection, but it will depend on how it's written.

I'm currently reading Elijah's Mermaid by Essie Fox - there are two narrators (plus a cluster of other documents) who range from childhood to around 20 (I think, don't quote me, maybe a little older). It is *not* YA.

Rook by Daniel O'Malley has a 30 y/o narrator, but I think it's better suited to teens than adults (it's like the X Files meets Harry Potter.) Just my opinion.

6 or 7 POVs sounds like a lot for any book, unless you've got a particular structure, as in James Smythe's The Testimony (which is written like a talking-heads style documentary). I'd also be concerned that the tone is YA, even when the POV character isn't.

Ask some more YA readers. One YA reading Beta is not enough. That's the only way you'll be able to tell.

MandyHubbard · Feb 22, 2013

Just becuase your MC is a teen, that doesn't mean it's YA. There are plenty of teens and younger protagonists in adult fiction.

Can you possibly have an adult POV in a YA novel? Sure. Can you have 4 of 7 POVs be adults.... I'm not sold.

Teens don't want to see the world-- or even themselves-- in the eyes of their parents. Hell I didn't really want to be around my parents at all when I was a teen. There's a reason so many teens in YA have dead parents. Gotta get rid of them somehow.

Having that many POVs can be a challenge.
Having ONE pov be an adult can be a challenge.
Having 7 POVS AND having 3 or 4 be adults-- now that's a hell of a mountain to climb.

I haven't read your book, and I will say that the structure is a major ding against the marketability, IMO.

taylormillgirl · Feb 22, 2013

Oh, does this sound familiar!

See that YA sci-fi in my siggy? I broke SO many rules when I wrote it, and one of those rules was writing from adult points of view. A fellow YA writer advised me to cut the adult voices and rewrite the book from the POVs of my two main characters, the teens. I moaned and groaned and complained, then sucked it up and took her advice.

I'm glad I did. Not only did the rewrite make my book stronger, but it had a stronger YA "flavor" afterwards. And it sold. There's that.

Good luck. I've been in your shoes and I know exactly how it feels to face such a massive change.

quicklime · Feb 22, 2013

twright said:
The main character is YA, and the whole story revolves around her, which is why I would consider it YA.

As for percentage of characters that are teen??? If you applied that to the Twilight books, hell...most of the characters are hundreds of years old. Well, maybe not, but the point is that I'm not sure percentage can be an ironclad rule.

1. I did not say it is an ironclad rule, I said I suspected that the less of the book that was YA, the less likely you can shelve it as YA. As mentioned, four of seven POV (or, more importantly, say 60% of the book) being adults and their thinking is going to make it a tough sell as YA

2. Twilight might not be your best example when the MC was teen Bella Swan and the rest were sulking teens who happened to never age, but were still, clearly, sulky teens

put it this way: the fact you haven't come out with a solid argument for why you need so many adult POV and had to go to what was never, EVER marketed as adults ro sell leaves me suspecting someplace int he pit of your stomach you know where this is going already, and just don't like your own intuition. That said, if you want a very entertaining aside, go find the 1980s movie "Near Dark." It has a vampire hundreds of years old trapped in a twelve year-old's body. Thet little guy could kick the shit out of edward, physically or mentally. He was absolutely an adult. But he drank, smoked, went whoring as they drifted from town to town.....he didn't gaze longingly and sigh, then gaze some more, than sigh, then gaze...

twright · Feb 22, 2013

MandyHubbard said:
Just becuase your MC is a teen, that doesn't mean it's YA. There are plenty of teens and younger protagonists in adult fiction.

Can you possibly have an adult POV in a YA novel? Sure. Can you have 4 of 7 POVs be adults.... I'm not sold.

Teens don't want to see the world-- or even themselves-- in the eyes of their parents. Hell I didn't really want to be around my parents at all when I was a teen. There's a reason so many teens in YA have dead parents. Gotta get rid of them somehow.

Having that many POVs can be a challenge.
Having ONE pov be an adult can be a challenge.
Having 7 POVS AND having 3 or 4 be adults-- now that's a hell of a mountain to climb.

I haven't read your book, and I will say that the structure is a major ding against the marketability, IMO.

Thanks. That's kind of what I was thinking. I originally intended it to be YA, but as the story came out so did the adult POVs. And even though people who have read it say "sure, I think it's YA" it doesn't matter, if the agents and editors I pitch it to say they can't market it that way.

Completely re-writing the novel is not an option, these POVs go to the very structure of the story line. I'm not going to try to re-groom a poodle to look like a cat, if it's really NOT a cat. I just need to stop peddling it as a cat.

Sounds like I need to just market it as adult SF&F, and if it crosses over into the YA market all the better.

hlynn117 · Feb 22, 2013

twright said:
Sounds like I need to just market it as adult SF&F, and if it crosses over into the YA market all the better.

Yeah, that sounds about right. Also, 'New Adult' is becoming a thing, so if your adults are in their twenties, you might want to consider that label.

twright · Feb 22, 2013

hlynn117 said:
Yeah, that sounds about right. Also, 'New Adult' is becoming a thing, so if your adults are in their twenties, you might want to consider that label.

Hmm, that's a possibility. The computer programmers would be in the NA range, and it would only take a minor bit of tweaking to move the MC and the two LIs into that category.

Word. I think it could work!

Jo Zebedee · Mar 5, 2013

Crossover novels are in vogue at the moment.

MandyHubbard · Mar 6, 2013

Springs2 said:
Crossover novels are in vogue at the moment.

Right, but you still have to do one thing really well. It's gotta be a fantastic YA novel with teen characters that adults happen to love reading, or vice versa.

Crossover happens naturally for successful books, not as a up front plan for books that don't quite fit in either category.

Is Adult POVs in YA Novel A Kiss Of Death?

twright

quicklime

all out of fucks to give

twright

Theo81

MandyHubbard

Once Upon a Time....

taylormillgirl

Hopeless Romantic

quicklime

all out of fucks to give

twright

hlynn117

twright

Jo Zebedee

space opera-popcorn lover!

MandyHubbard

Once Upon a Time....