Some questions about how the police would investigate a shootout

mreilly19

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Hi all, I am finally writing the climax of my story, a crime drama set in L.A. in 1992. I am having a tough time figuring out police procedure in the aftermath of a shootout involving the MC, his girlfriend, and the bad guy (whereby the MC and girlfriend partner up against the bad guy).

Background:

The bad guy is lurking in the MC's apartment as part of his plan to rip off the MC by kidnapping him and compelling him to transfer 2 million dollars overseas. The MC has a legally-owned gun and a CC permit both of which the bad guy knows about. The bad guy does NOT know that MC also has a 9 mm Glock on him which he took off a street punk a few weeks before and has been meaning to turn into the cops since it's clearly hot, with a scratched-off serial number (in fact, the MC was going to turn it in that day which explains why he is carrying it).

Action:

The MC enters the apartment and the bad guy relieves him of his gun. The girlfriend enters with a gun of her own, which she does not legally possess (it belonged to her deceased mother and was put in a storage facility after the mom died). Furthermore, the girlfriend is out on bail.

Girlfriend shoots bad guy. Bad guy shoots MC. MC pulls out Glock and shoots bad guy, grazing him. Bad guy shoots girlfriend. Girlfriend shoots bad guy again, also grazing him. Bad guy flees the scene then dies falling down the stairs.

So, the cops come and find the MC and his girlfriend and take them to the hospital; they both survive. The cops also seize the illegal guns. The girlfriend tells the police (MC is unconscious) that the bad guy brought the Glock and the MC got it away from him and used it to shoot the bad guy. She also tells the cops the bad guy apparently broke into the storage facility and took her mother's gun; she found it outside the building before entering the apartment, then picked it up wondering what the hell was going on, etc. Her angle is the bad guy stole it from her and so she used it to shoot him in self-defense since she just happened to find it where he dropped it by mistake. She had the foresight to file a police report several days beforehand stating the storage facility was robbed (I describe how she suspects the bad guy might be around and up to something so she concludes this may cover her if she has to use her gun), but she does not list the gun on that police report since she claims to have had no notion that it was even there.

Questions:

How thorough will the police be in investigating this shootout? Do they account for every bullet from every gun, including the shots that went wild? Perhaps I can just have the girlfriend make her gun disappear, though I suspect that would be a stretch.

How likely is it the cops will believe the girlfriend and assume the bad guy brought the Glock/stole her gun and dropped it by mistake outside? Bad guy is dead, so nobody can contradict her claims.

How likely is it the MC and his girlfriend don't get charged with having an unlawful firearm? I need her to skate off on this one since the sequel depends on her having a clean criminal record so she can join a federal law enforcement agency (I realize her claims about the illegal guns are shady, but she is acting to protect her boyfriend - part of the theme of my story involves people committing questionable acts for a greater good and how that weighs in on the moral scale). She knows she is tied to that gun since the registration records will show it was her mother's. Since she didn't actually pack up all her mother's things and store them (she was only 15 when her mom died) she can't be assumed to have known it was in that storage facility and thereby charged with failing to turn it into the cops.

It may be a situation where the cops do consider charging these two but realize there won't be sufficient evidence to convict. I do NOT want to fall into the trap of "The cops elected to let this one go since they felt sorry for the MC/girlfriend for getting shot." I realize it's not up to the cops to feel sorry for people; the law is the law. I want the reader to feel completely confident in the manner in which this is addressed and not feel like some convenient "deus ex machina" saved these two.

A tough tangle, I know, but I'd appreciate some insight into how this would play out! Thanks in advance-
 

Sarpedon

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I don't know about the cops, but I wouldn't believe that story. It's the police's job to be suspicious, so they are likely not going to take any story at face value.

There are tests that can be done to determine whether anyone has fired a gun. I am not sure if these tests can distinguish WHICH gun was fired, but it seems critical that you find that out.

The bit about 'finding' the mother's gun is absurd. Why would he break into the storage place, steal a gun, even though he already has one (an untraceable one at that) and then clumsily drop it in the yard? I think that needs work.

And why would the MC be carrying around an illegal gun that he intended to turn into the police? Especially when he had a legal one? Is he just the most forgetful person in the world? If he took a hot gun off a street thug, he should either turn it in right away, or get rid of it. Anything else is enormously suspicious.
 

cornflake

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Yes, they will mark every shell and hole, account for every bullet, etc.

That many weapons and shooters, everyone is getting GSR tests on their hands, the weapons are printed, etc., they'll know she fired a gun, that she had the gun in her hand, etc.

If she's going to claim she had no idea the gun was in the storage locker, how's she going to claim it came from there or that it was stolen even though she didn't mention it because she didn't know? That's just way too convenient/too many holes. Cops aren't that dumb.

That she just 10 seconds ago found the gun on the street and picked it up "wondering what was going on" and thus took a gun with her instead of calling the cops and saying 'hey, there's a gun in the street' when she has no permit, so she can't be toting a gun anyplace, gives her the gun. I don't know LA laws specifically, and I know the ones here are tougher - here it's likely having had the weapon would get her a one-way, one-year ticket to jail.

How does she have a clean record if she's out on bail, btw?
 

mreilly19

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Thanks for the responses. Answers below:

Well, the girlfriend won't specifically tell the cops that the gun came from the storage locker; they'll run the serial number and find out it was registered to her mother, then say "What do you know about this?" She'll say "the gun must have been in the storage locker which was broken into; I filed the police report BEFORE the shootout." She admits she used the gun to shoot at the bad guy (and I will have the MC/girlfriend cleared of wrongdoing since it was proven to be self-defense) so isn't trying to hide that fact, but rather provide an alibi for why she had it in the first place. The implication here will be that the bad guy found and took the gun during the break-in to use in place of his own legally registered gun which he didn't want to use in the commission of a crime, for obvious reasons.

The girlfriend's claim will be she was watching to see if the bad guy was around, then spied him entering her boyfriend's apartment. She then saw her boyfriend entering as well and called the cops to let them know something was going down. Then she approached the apartment building, found the gun and stuck it in her pocket; no time to call it in since she was trying to get up there and stop the bad guy (this fits her take-charge personality; basically she suspected the bad guy would be around but worked out a scheme to get her boyfriend to stay clear so she could try to trap the guy).

The girlfriend has a "clean record" in the sense she's only been accused of a crime so far, and she later turns out to be exonerated for since she was framed. In other words, when the case gets tossed out I want her to have no police record which would prevent her from joining a federal law enforcement agency.

The MC was going to turn in the Glock that very day; he had a lot of other excitement in his life (and is a procrastinator) so just plain didn't get around to doing it beforehand.
 

cornflake

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First, you might want to check on the particular agency's guidelines because being in the system could potentially boot her out of consideration for some jobs.

Second, the MC has an illegal gun. Again, here, he's going to jail. I dunno about LA but just wandering around with a random gun because oh, you "took it off" someone and were going to turn it in to the cops but procrastinated is not any excuse for anything.

As to her, that just sounds way, way, too coincidental to me - oh, look, a gun, laying on the ground. I'll grab it and look, here's a shootout to use it in. I mean if it's not hers, why is she picking up a random gun laying on the street and sticking it in her pocket, you know? That's illegal.

Also also, just btw, how is this supposed to be self defense if they lured the bad guy there with the intent of causing something and trapping him and then going up there with loaded weapons?
 

mreilly19

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Yeah, this is the FBI, which is why I'm pretty sure I have to somehow exonerate the girlfriend before she even dares to apply. :)

I know all this sounds extremely fishy. MC does have the illegal Glock, but again he claims the bad guy brought it and the MC then fought him and took it away.

Good point about it being self defense. The backstory is that the girlfriend suspected the bad guy was around and would break into the MC's apartment to lay for him. She directs the MC away from his place telling him it'll be fumigated for roaches since she wants to keep him out of the picture (MC has a wicked temper and she fear he might shoot the bad guy, putting himself in trouble). This is more elegantly laid out, but the gist is she opts against telling the cops the bad guy is afoot since he hasn't done anything yet - she wants him to be caught in the MC's apartment. MC wanders in anyhow with the loaded gun he has a permit to carry, so she enters to save his backside. Self defense is claimed here since the girlfriend doesn't tell the cops she was staking the place out to catch the bad guy, etc. since he winds up dead anyhow.

I don't have to stick with the element of "bad guy allegedly stole the gun from the storage facility and the girlfriend found it." I agree it's weak, but I need something to get her off from charges of possessing an illegal weapon. My other option was to have the MC claim the mother's next-of-kin sold him the gun and produce a fake receipt, and the girlfriend grabbed it from the drawer of a table in the entryway of his apartment and shot the bad guy with it, but I thought that might be even more far-fetched.

First, you might want to check on the particular agency's guidelines because being in the system could potentially boot her out of consideration for some jobs.

Second, the MC has an illegal gun. Again, here, he's going to jail. I dunno about LA but just wandering around with a random gun because oh, you "took it off" someone and were going to turn it in to the cops but procrastinated is not any excuse for anything.

As to her, that just sounds way, way, too coincidental to me - oh, look, a gun, laying on the ground. I'll grab it and look, here's a shootout to use it in. I mean if it's not hers, why is she picking up a random gun laying on the street and sticking it in her pocket, you know? That's illegal.

Also also, just btw, how is this supposed to be self defense if they lured the bad guy there with the intent of causing something and trapping him and then going up there with loaded weapons?
 

Sonneillon

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At some random point, have your investigator throw his hands into the air, drop to his knees, and exclaim in ragged ecstasy, "THERE WAS A FIREFIIIIIIGHT!"
 

cornflake

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Yeah, this is the FBI, which is why I'm pretty sure I have to somehow exonerate the girlfriend before she even dares to apply. :)

I know all this sounds extremely fishy. MC does have the illegal Glock, but again he claims the bad guy brought it and the MC then fought him and took it away.

Good point about it being self defense. The backstory is that the girlfriend suspected the bad guy was around and would break into the MC's apartment to lay for him. She directs the MC away from his place telling him it'll be fumigated for roaches since she wants to keep him out of the picture (MC has a wicked temper and she fear he might shoot the bad guy, putting himself in trouble). This is more elegantly laid out, but the gist is she opts against telling the cops the bad guy is afoot since he hasn't done anything yet - she wants him to be caught in the MC's apartment. MC wanders in anyhow with the loaded gun he has a permit to carry, so she enters to save his backside. Self defense is claimed here since the girlfriend doesn't tell the cops she was staking the place out to catch the bad guy, etc. since he winds up dead anyhow.

I don't have to stick with the element of "bad guy allegedly stole the gun from the storage facility and the girlfriend found it." I agree it's weak, but I need something to get her off from charges of possessing an illegal weapon. My other option was to have the MC claim the mother's next-of-kin sold him the gun and produce a fake receipt, and the girlfriend grabbed it from the drawer of a table in the entryway of his apartment and shot the bad guy with it, but I thought that might be even more far-fetched.

Exonerated may not matter - being in the systerm may.

If he's known to the characters and they to him, the cops are going to be extremely suspicious of this entire story.

As to the entryway gun - yes, that's farfetched. How does she know it's there? Why is it there? Wouldn't it be illegal to keep it there?
 

mreilly19

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Conviction of a felony precludes someone from becoming an FBI special agent, so I think she should be ok if she's just been in the system but not convicted.

I know the cops are going to be suspicious, but the tack here should be "what can they prove?" If they don't feel they have enough to make a case then they should drop it.

The entryway gun idea is an alternative since the MC is completely golden as far as having the ability to own guns and carry them concealed. They live together, so if I go that route I can say he stashed the gun in the entryway table in case of a home invasion (this is legal since it's his apartment and he's licensed), and the girlfriend knew about it and grabbed it. I still really want her to use her own gun in this scenario but if I have to alter the story so she took his entryway gun and used it to protect them both that may work. In that scenario the question is "Is it legal for someone to defend their life/someone else's life using a firearm they are not licensed to own or carry, in the face of immediate danger, in the gun owner's legal residence?"
 

jclarkdawe

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A condition of bailing is being a good behavior. It is a burden to the defendant to prove that she was of good behavior. She violates her bail by being involved in a shootout, in that she's hanging around someone who might be involved in a shootout, i.e., bad people. She goes to jail. Then she lies to the police. A crime and another reason to violate bail.

I represented criminal defendants and I'd slap her ass in jail if I was the judge. I'm not going to sit here and sort it out as a judge, as to how bad she is. She's just going, going, gone.

Violation of bail is usually a crime, so now I've got two new crimes against her, neither of which is dependent on the other crime. In other words, you can violate bail and still be found not guilty of the original crime.

Your mileage might depend on jurisdiction here. New York City and she's going to Riker's no ifs, ands, or buts. Wyoming maybe not.

If you're carrying a gun intending to turn it into the police, it is empty, and clip removed. Actually, any time you're carrying a gun, unless you intend to shoot it, it is empty and clip removed. Unless you're an idiot. Many people, back in the days of revolvers, would chamber a casing in one chamber, so that even if the gun fired, nothing would happen.

The police are going to question them over several days and I doubt they're going to keep their story going that long. It's hard to lie over several sessions and keep the details straight. As an attorney, normally you'd let your client tell their story a couple of times, and after that, you refuse. But she doesn't have that option. She's on bail and needs to cooperate with the police, or she violates her bail conditions of being of good behavior.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe
 

cornflake

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Conviction of a felony precludes someone from becoming an FBI special agent, so I think she should be ok if she's just been in the system but not convicted.

I know the cops are going to be suspicious, but the tack here should be "what can they prove?" If they don't feel they have enough to make a case then they should drop it.

The entryway gun idea is an alternative since the MC is completely golden as far as having the ability to own guns and carry them concealed. They live together, so if I go that route I can say he stashed the gun in the entryway table in case of a home invasion (this is legal since it's his apartment and he's licensed), and the girlfriend knew about it and grabbed it. I still really want her to use her own gun in this scenario but if I have to alter the story so she took his entryway gun and used it to protect them both that may work. In that scenario the question is "Is it legal for someone to defend their life/someone else's life using a firearm they are not licensed to own or carry, in the face of immediate danger, in the gun owner's legal residence?"

On the forms yeah. In reality... Same as on the forms you can have tried cocaine X times as long as it was X long ago and in X capacity and X drug this long ago but if it looks like you like drugs a little much...

If the MC can have and carry concealed to that extent I'm going with that he is law enforcement? Otherwise I don't get how he's got this kind of permission.

That he's walking around with the Glock and doesn't get in trouble for that further leads me to that assumption.

I dunno, seems awfully convenient either way. She'd be in less danger with the other person's weapon in a lethal situation, imo. The problem with suspicious cops is they don't just go, 'oh well, probably can't prove anything, nevermind.' They dig, and dig and question until they figure out what the deal is. They know the guy and he knows them and they happen to surprise him and engage in a shootout with random weapons and kill him - that's not going to be dismissed easily.
 

jclarkdawe

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Conviction of a felony precludes someone from becoming an FBI special agent, so I think she should be ok if she's just been in the system but not convicted. But if the records shows a lack of cooperation with the police in the past, then she's not going to get in. And a question as to whether she may or may not have lied to the police is enough to not hire her by any police department.

I know the cops are going to be suspicious, but the tack here should be "what can they prove?" If they don't feel they have enough to make a case then they should drop it. Eventaully. But usually they worry at it like a dog with a bone. It's not unknown for a detective to show up a couple of months after a self-defense argument and have the shooter go through the story again. Inconsistent statements are enough here to score a conviction for manslaughter.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe
 

mreilly19

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Good stuff. I was hoping to get your input, Jim. This is in L.A. so it might be a hard situation to predict. What if the bad guy has a bad history, and has targeted the MC to rip him off, since the MC is a millionaire? He also has a grudge against the girlfriend since he is a PI who investigated her, found her clean, then tried to blackmail her into sleeping with him and she shot him down (NOT documented on a police report since it was her word vs. his)? The MC is clean and has no convictions, is a good upstanding citizen, and so this is truly a case of a bad guy picking on a couple of people who then defend themselves with firearms?

As far as the gun that was to be turned into the police goes, the MC does remove the clip, but forgets about the round in the chamber. He uses the gun to shoot the bad guy while not entirely sure there even IS that round in the chamber.

As far as keeping their stories straight, I've already established that the MC and the girlfriend are able to stick to a plan and not deviate. They're supremely self-confident and if the girlfriend says it happened such-and-such way, she'll repeat that story until Gabriel blows his horn, if that's what is required.

Also, Jim: my MC is unconscious for two days then wakes up at 11 pm on a Wednesday night to find his best friend there telling him what's happened. How long do you think it would be before the LAPD appears to get his statement (or would they be standing there throughout?)

A condition of bailing is being a good behavior. It is a burden to the defendant to prove that she was of good behavior. She violates her bail by being involved in a shootout, in that she's hanging around someone who might be involved in a shootout, i.e., bad people. She goes to jail. Then she lies to the police. A crime and another reason to violate bail.

I represented criminal defendants and I'd slap her ass in jail if I was the judge. I'm not going to sit here and sort it out as a judge, as to how bad she is. She's just going, going, gone.

Violation of bail is usually a crime, so now I've got two new crimes against her, neither of which is dependent on the other crime. In other words, you can violate bail and still be found not guilty of the original crime.

Your mileage might depend on jurisdiction here. New York City and she's going to Riker's no ifs, ands, or buts. Wyoming maybe not.

If you're carrying a gun intending to turn it into the police, it is empty, and clip removed. Actually, any time you're carrying a gun, unless you intend to shoot it, it is empty and clip removed. Unless you're an idiot. Many people, back in the days of revolvers, would chamber a casing in one chamber, so that even if the gun fired, nothing would happen.

The police are going to question them over several days and I doubt they're going to keep their story going that long. It's hard to lie over several sessions and keep the details straight. As an attorney, normally you'd let your client tell their story a couple of times, and after that, you refuse. But she doesn't have that option. She's on bail and needs to cooperate with the police, or she violates her bail conditions of being of good behavior.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe
 

jclarkdawe

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Good stuff. I was hoping to get your input, Jim. This is in L.A. so it might be a hard situation to predict. What if the bad guy has a bad history, and has targeted the MC to rip him off, since the MC is a millionaire? He also has a grudge against the girlfriend since he is a PI who investigated her, found her clean, then tried to blackmail her into sleeping with him and she shot him down (NOT documented on a police report since it was her word vs. his)? The MC is clean and has no convictions, is a good upstanding citizen, and so this is truly a case of a bad guy picking on a couple of people who then defend themselves with firearms?

He could be a priest, with a halo, and the brother of the police commissioner. Doesn't matter. She's a bad person as shown by the fact that she's on bail. Behavior when you're on bail is a much higher standard then normal. In LA, you could have that she's arraigned on a bail violation, and a hearing in a few months. It's unlikely, but with cases like Lohan, believable. And the MC has the money to pay for a good attorney for her.

As far as the gun that was to be turned into the police goes, the MC does remove the clip, but forgets about the round in the chamber. He uses the gun to shoot the bad guy while not entirely sure there even IS that round in the chamber.

How dumb is your character? Sounds like he's close to too stupid to live.

As far as keeping their stories straight, I've already established that the MC and the girlfriend are able to stick to a plan and not deviate. They're supremely self-confident and if the girlfriend says it happened such-and-such way, she'll repeat that story until Gabriel blows his horn, if that's what is required.

I loved witnesses like this. You get them to repeat their story three or four times, let them get committed to it. Then you find something stupid they've said (we all do this). It doesn't take much. My favorite was a mother who had lost a report card. Started going after how a mother should care, and shouldn't lose report cards. Half an hour later, and she's so pissed with me, she's no longer remembering what she said five minutes ago.

I've met some world-class liars. I had one client who got out of prison, went to a new car dealership that day, and drove of in a Caddy. Next he was heard of was in Illinois, when he put the Caddy into a wall. Liars can do this for a while, but it's hard to hold it together time after time when someone is looking to find inconsistencies.

The guy with the Caddy? His parole officer and I had a bet on how long he was going to last on parole. (PO had at least three days and I had a week. Neither of us thought he'd screw up this quick.) But at first, when I'd met him, I believed his stories.

Also, Jim: my MC is unconscious for two days then wakes up at 11 pm on a Wednesday night to find his best friend there telling him what's happened. How long do you think it would be before the LAPD appears to get his statement (or would they be standing there throughout?)

For a shooting? They'd have someone there, and unless they had some clear and convincing evidence, would probably be all ready to arrest him.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe
 

mreilly19

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OK, for the sake of realism, how about this approach?

The MC and the girlfriend don't try to hide or deny the fact they had and used illegal weapons. Both were shot by the bad guy so they go to the hospital to get patched up. The girlfriend is still conscious and tells the police the entire truth.

Do the cops arrest them immediately and haul them off to the LA County jail infirmary, or just post officers in their hospital rooms to do so once they're medically stable?

If they're allowed to remain in the hospital I would assume they'd be denied access to see or speak to one another (or anyone else) until they'd been arrested, arraigned and released on bail (if applicable)? That seems to make common sense.

If they're each charged with unlawful possession/use of a firearm could a good attorney negotiate it down to a lesser charge like a misdemeanor?

I may have the girlfriend wind up convicted if that is the best approach since she would "give up her aspirations to join the FBI" as a result of this. If she's convicted would she undoubtedly go to jail or could there be a probation/suspended sentence/time already served situation? Tryin to figure out the epilogue. :)
 

cornflake

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Dunno about the possibility of that in LA - in NY, there's pretty much no shot. You're going to jail for a year, no negotiation, no reduction, no one cares what your story was.
 

jclarkdawe

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You might want to read about Bernhard Goetz

It's hard to predict these types of cases. I wouldn't want an illegal weapons charge for the next year or so. You're going to get hammered. Illegal weapon a year after 9/11 and I got the charge dismissed with the prosecutor's approval. There's just too much public pressure that goes both ways and predicting it in a vacuum is next to impossible.

LA has a medical ward to their jail and that's where they'd go.

With the bail violation, the police violate her on bail and away she goes. The standard for going into custody on bail violations is rather low. Basically all the police have to show is that she was possibly of not good behavior during bail. Add in dead bodies, and the judge isn't going to have any problems sending her away. At least if she's in jail she's safe, society is safe, and the judge knows where she is. Simple solution.

But the illegal weapons charges are difficult to predict what a jury will do. Especially with dead bodies. Good day with the stars in the right place and the right client and maybe I could make this ultimately go away. Wrong day, stars in the wrong place, or wrong client and the client is going to do some time. Your scenario could go either way on the illegal weapons charge.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe
 

mreilly19

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Interesting about Bernie Goetz; I never knew he got off on all charges except the illegal firearm one.

I think I've got it all down, now. The only element I need is some way for them to communicate while in the LA jail medical ward. Can they have any visitors at all (even family) who might pass some information back and forth or is it completely sealed off? I had written that my MC's best friend is there in the hospital room when he wakes up and tells him what's been happening.

If the MC recovers and is released on bail can he visit her in jail or is that likely to be prohibited (I'm guessing it would be).

Furthermore, if the MC and girlfriend admit the weapons were illegal, the next logical step would be for them to plead guilty to the charge, which means the judge would sentence them, right? At that point I would think they'd be entirely dependent on the mercy (and mood) of the judge.

I certainly appreciate the responses; this book is slowly being sculpted and chiseled into something that makes sense and will leave the reader totally confident this is what would happen.

You might want to read about Bernhard Goetz

It's hard to predict these types of cases. I wouldn't want an illegal weapons charge for the next year or so. You're going to get hammered. Illegal weapon a year after 9/11 and I got the charge dismissed with the prosecutor's approval. There's just too much public pressure that goes both ways and predicting it in a vacuum is next to impossible.

LA has a medical ward to their jail and that's where they'd go.

With the bail violation, the police violate her on bail and away she goes. The standard for going into custody on bail violations is rather low. Basically all the police have to show is that she was possibly of not good behavior during bail. Add in dead bodies, and the judge isn't going to have any problems sending her away. At least if she's in jail she's safe, society is safe, and the judge knows where she is. Simple solution.

But the illegal weapons charges are difficult to predict what a jury will do. Especially with dead bodies. Good day with the stars in the right place and the right client and maybe I could make this ultimately go away. Wrong day, stars in the wrong place, or wrong client and the client is going to do some time. Your scenario could go either way on the illegal weapons charge.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe
 
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frimble3

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I'm curious: the gun was registered to her mother. When did they start registering guns in California? I'm wondering if it might be an older gun, that mom never did register, just put away and ignored, and the family packed it away with the other stuff. The girlfriend might have known it was there, but there'd be no connection to her.
And, I'm thinking that if the FBI ever found out about her 'cunning plan' involving entrapment, not informing the Proper Authorities, illegal guns and shootouts, I think her goose would be cooked, careerwise, whether she was convicted or not.
 

ironmikezero

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In CA, prior to 1991 there was effectively no handgun registration beyond the original selling dealer's records and the filing of the (federal) BATF form 4473. The state requirement changed in later years, several times actually, but never specifically required that handguns owned prior to such changes (grandfathered in) be registered further.

The FBI would take a dim view of your MC's overall behavior - and it would all come to light in the course of an extensive and very in-depth background investigation (mandatory prior to any offer of employment). She'd be damned lucky to escape prosecution.

She would never qualify for a security clearance; and that alone would render employment at a federal LE agency moot.
 

mreilly19

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This is a great piece of information. The handgun in question was bought around 1980 so we can therefore conclude it wouldn't have been registered and thus couldn't be linked to the girl's mother.

I may have to have her give up on the FBI agent idea, probably with an admission on her part that maybe she's too sneaky to be a proper agent anyhow since she doesn't go by the book (there are many other instances shown in the novel where she deliberately skirts the law, although in a "victimless crime" sort of way. The idea I had for a sequel really just involves my characters being involved in further investigations/action which of course they could do as a private eye team.

In CA, prior to 1991 there was effectively no handgun registration beyond the original selling dealer's records and the filing of the (federal) BATF form 4473. The state requirement changed in later years, several times actually, but never specifically required that handguns owned prior to such changes (grandfathered in) be registered further.

The FBI would take a dim view of your MC's overall behavior - and it would all come to light in the course of an extensive and very in-depth background investigation (mandatory prior to any offer of employment). She'd be damned lucky to escape prosecution.

She would never qualify for a security clearance; and that alone would render employment at a federal LE agency moot.
 

cornflake

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Yes on Goetz - same on Plaxico Burress, the dope. That's the level to which NYC is not kidding about it - you have an unlicensed gun (to have a licensed one is an incredibly expensive, time-consuming, rare long shot, and a carry permit in NYC is basically unheard of unless you literally transport diamonds on your person daily in quantity [that's traditionally the only real civilian exception to the 'hahaha' response to wanting a carry permit, diamond merchants]) you're going to jail. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200, do not attempt to plead out or hope for a big sentence reduction, enjoy your cell.

Los Angeles County I know is stricter than CA as a whole but I didn't know how far it tilts.

Good your character has given up the feds - it doesn't sound like she was a good fit. :)
 
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jclarkdawe

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Interesting about Bernie Goetz; I never knew he got off on all charges except the illegal firearm one. Because no one could show beyond a reasonable doubt that Bernie Goetz was not defending himself. This was near the height of the mugging on subway problem and people didn't have much sympathy for muggers.

I think I've got it all down, now. The only element I need is some way for them to communicate while in the LA jail medical ward. Can they have any visitors at all (even family) who might pass some information back and forth or is it completely sealed off? I had written that my MC's best friend is there in the hospital room when he wakes up and tells him what's been happening. Whether you're in a jail hospital or hospital depends upon the severity of your condition and the level of hospital care available. The hospital ward at the NH State Prison is only good for care up to what I'd call medium conditions. ICU care, for example, is not possible.

If he's unconscious, at this point in his care he would be in ICU. My guess is he'd be in a regular hospital, although I don't know how good LA's jail is. But my guess is that at least one hospital in the LA area serves as a prison hospital and has sufficient security. He would not be allowed visitors, other then in accordance with the jail's policies.

Medically you're in an interesting situation here. There is a medical privilege, but it's sort of iffy. But you also want to find out his mental functioning, including memories of what occurred just prior to him losing consciousness. Definitely the doctors and police do not want someone giving him the details of what happened.

If the MC recovers and is released on bail can he visit her in jail or is that likely to be prohibited (I'm guessing it would be). Definitely prohibited.

Furthermore, if the MC and girlfriend admit the weapons were illegal, the next logical step would be for them to plead guilty to the charge, which means the judge would sentence them, right? At that point I would think they'd be entirely dependent on the mercy (and mood) of the judge. Admitting it to the police is completely different from admitting it in court. He's got money. He'd get an attorney and the attorney would assess the case, see whether the admission about the weapon's charge can be thrown out, and talks to the prosecutor and arranges a deal. This will actually happen months from the actual shoot out. And probably beyond the time scope of your book.

I certainly appreciate the responses; this book is slowly being sculpted and chiseled into something that makes sense and will leave the reader totally confident this is what would happen.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe
 

mreilly19

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The MC is in bad shape since he's been shot in the back (upper right shoulder) and also fell, suffering an epidural hematoma when he hit his head against a table. He will need an ICU, but can be located to one in the LA area which servers as a prison hospital. I'll look up which one.

You make a very succinct point about his mental functioning - since he had the hematoma, his state of mind will be crucial not only from a medical but a criminal standpoint. I really wanted him to wake up with a friend or relative there, but I can alter the story and leave him to his own devices. Might also be a good plot element where he figures he has no idea what his GF has told the cops, but decides to go with the truth reasoning she's done the same.

If the MC and GF get their attorneys to arrange a deal, I'm thinking that it's this: the prosecutor won't charge them with illegal firearm possession if they keep their noses clean for a period of 5 years in California. If they so much as get pinched smoking a joint, they get hit hard on that illegal firearms charge. Sound convincing?
 

jclarkdawe

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If the MC and GF get their attorneys to arrange a deal, I'm thinking that it's this: the prosecutor won't charge them with illegal firearm possession if they keep their noses clean for a period of 5 years in California. If they so much as get pinched smoking a joint, they get hit hard on that illegal firearms charge. Sound convincing?

You can't dismiss the charges, or not arrest them, because of statute of limitations problems.

What you do is "Place case on file, with (or without) a finding, subject to good behavior on the part of the defendant for a period of five years." Which also means that they're being charged with a felony level of illegal firearms. (If it was a misdemeanor, you can't keep it on file for five years.)

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe