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ReflectiveAcuity
01-07-2013, 06:49 PM
My wife and I did as millions of others around the world did over the holidays; we went shopping at the local mall. On that particular day, nearly every square inch of the building was jammed-packed with shoppers. Every store filled to capacity, except for one, which I’ll get to in a moment. As we walked along a corridor, practically rubbing elbows with others, I turned my head and looked into Waldenbooks. Aside from the clerk at the register and a single individual near the back of the store reaching up to one of the shelves, the store was completely empty! I turned to my wife, who is well aware of my love of books, and I said, “Look at how empty that store is. That is sad. That is really sad.”

She remarked something about how, more and more, people are turning to the Internet or electronic devices for their reading. That picking up an actual hardcover or paperback book and turning its pages is becoming a thing of the past.

That is sad.

RA

cornflake
01-07-2013, 06:52 PM
I have returned to this forum to post this question. I hadn’t visited or written in this forum for a while because, quite frankly, I was very disappointed in what appeared to be extensive rudeness exhibited by many of the members here. But that’s neither here or there; I have a very sad story to tell.

My wife and I did as millions of others around the world did over the holidays; we went shopping at the local mall. On that particular day, nearly every square inch of the building was jammed-packed with shoppers. Every store filled to capacity, except for one, which I’ll get to in a moment. As we walked along a corridor, practically rubbing elbows with others, I turned my head and looked into Waldenbooks. Aside from the clerk at the register and a single individual near the back of the store reaching up to one of the shelves, the store was completely empty! I turned to my wife, who is well aware of my love of books, and I said, “Look at how empty that store is. That is sad. That is really sad.”

She remarked something about how, more and more, people are turning to the Internet or electronic devices for their reading. That picking up an actual hardcover or paperback book and turning its pages is becoming a thing of the past.

That is sad.

RA

Considering they went out of business last year and liquidated, that's not particularly surprising, except for the part sbout there being a clerk in there to begin with.

Alpha Echo
01-07-2013, 06:57 PM
Well, every time I'm in Barnes and Noble, it's packed. I went after Christmas with my giftcards. Of course, people weren't just buying books.

I do think that bookstores are falling away, but I think part of it is because everyone orders online. I do. If I'm not at the used bookstore or using giftcards at Barnes and Noble, I'm ordering through Amazon (yes, I do, sorry) or Literary Guild when they have sales.

I do go to the used bookstore quite often though. Which reminds me, I need to go again this weekend. I have a ton of books to trade.

cornflake
01-07-2013, 06:58 PM
Well, every time I'm in Barnes and Noble, it's packed. I went after Christmas with my giftcards. Of course, people weren't just buying books.

I do think that bookstores are falling away, but I think part of it is because everyone orders online. I do. If I'm not at the used bookstore or using giftcards at Barnes and Noble, I'm ordering through Amazon (yes, I do, sorry) or Literary Guild when they have sales.

I do go to the used bookstore quite often though. Which reminds me, I need to go again this weekend. I have a ton of books to trade.

I believe I saw an article about physical book sales getting a good bump over the holidays as ppl bought them as gifts.

Briony-zisaya
01-07-2013, 07:02 PM
I love my Kindle, it goes everywhere with me. That being said I will never stop purchasing paperback copies of books. Some I buy for Kindle out of convenience, but I also still buy paperback copies because I like the feel of a book in my hand. Hubby and I just discussed this a few days ago because we recently moved and alot of my books are in storage in a different state and I wish I would have brought them to begin with because I want to read a particular book again. He said we could just get it on my ereader. NO! I want to hold it in my hand. For me at least they are not ever going to be obsolete.

mccardey
01-07-2013, 07:05 PM
e-books are also books, of course. And let's not get Medi started on the papyrus thing...

;)

Tepelus
01-07-2013, 07:14 PM
I went to a BAM! bookstore in the Sandusky Mall a week ago and there were at least a couple dozen people in there, maybe even more. People are still buying paper books. I don't think they'll ever go away.

I still like physical books, but I just got a Kindle Fire for Christmas which I'll use to buy books that either aren't available in paper form or I just don't want in paper form, plus I can get a hold of a lot of the classics for free and read them on that which is more convenient than reading on my laptop. I can also watch movies on my KFire that my boyfriend won't want to watch, or while he's taking up the TV with his video games.

Alpha Echo
01-07-2013, 07:32 PM
I have a kindle, and I was so excited with it when I first got it (about a year ago) that I thought I'd use it all the time. I hardly use it at all. I only really use it when I'm getting my hair done or waiting at the doctor's office or something. I prefer books. It's kinda sad because when I was all excited with the new Kindle, I went NUTS buying kindle books. I downloaded a lot of free crap that was just that - crap. Most of what I downloaded for the Kindle was crap. IDK. Now I'm rambling.

leahzero
01-07-2013, 08:11 PM
Considering they went out of business last year and liquidated, that's not particularly surprising, except for the part sbout there being a clerk in there to begin with.

This. o.O

Are you sure it was a Waldenbooks? Because they don't exist anymore.

And yes, printed books are on the decline. It's doubtful they'll COMPLETELY disappear for a while yet. The MP3 didn't completely wipe out the CD, cassette, or record, after all. But it is very likely that printed books will go the same route: used by a minority for fetishistic or other unconventional purposes.

Ebooks, however, are a booming market.

And why is it sad that ebooks are overtaking print? Aside from hashing out the ebook vs. print argument again (see: a billion other threads on this topic), if people are reading, people are reading. Period.

cray
01-07-2013, 08:17 PM
I have returned to this forum to post this question. I hadn’t visited or written in this forum for a while because, quite frankly, I was very disappointed in what appeared to be extensive rudeness exhibited by many of the members here. But that’s neither here or there; I have a very sad story to tell.

My wife and I did as millions of others around the world did over the holidays; we went shopping at the local mall. On that particular day, nearly every square inch of the building was jammed-packed with shoppers. Every store filled to capacity, except for one, which I’ll get to in a moment. As we walked along a corridor, practically rubbing elbows with others, I turned my head and looked into Waldenbooks. Aside from the clerk at the register and a single individual near the back of the store reaching up to one of the shelves, the store was completely empty! I turned to my wife, who is well aware of my love of books, and I said, “Look at how empty that store is. That is sad. That is really sad.”

She remarked something about how, more and more, people are turning to the Internet or electronic devices for their reading. That picking up an actual hardcover or paperback book and turning its pages is becoming a thing of the past.

That is sad.

RA


good lord....
what's the point of the mentioning the rudeness?




Considering they went out of business last year and liquidated, that's not particularly surprising, except for the part sbout there being a clerk in there to begin with.

exactly. well almost exactly.
ack! i'm sorry cornflake, that was rude.

i meant to say that if my memory serves me waldenbooks went out of business in 2011.

please accept my apologies.

AVS
01-07-2013, 08:20 PM
I hope book stores do not become obselete. I got a Kindle paperwhite for Christmas. I've long held off getting one, something nostalgic about physical books I guess. I love book stores and the thought of them going the same way as record stores is a sad one.

However, I can get books instantly, and perhaps more importantly I can carry my library of Very Important Books with me at all times. If I read a book on the Kindle and love it (really love it) I will order a hard copy too.

On a more positive note, I can already see I am buying and accessing more books than I did, and I feel that's a general experience.

Medievalist
01-07-2013, 08:29 PM
She remarked something about how, more and more, people are turning to the Internet or electronic devices for their reading. That picking up an actual hardcover or paperback book and turning its pages is becoming a thing of the past.

That is sad.

I think part of the problem is that Amazon is selling so many printed books that smaller chains and sometimes smaller bookstores are no longer able to compete.

I'm seeing used book stores coming back, and thriving, and in some areas, independent, locally owned book stores are back and doing well. I'm hoping both trends increase.

I'm hoping that it means that more printed books will be produced as durable objects, with better paper, ink, and bindings, so that they will last.

But I also am very grateful that more books are available as ebooks; I have a hard time reading many print books because of the type, and because my hands get tired rapidly when I have to grip anything.

ReflectiveAcuity
01-07-2013, 09:22 PM
Considering they went out of business last year and liquidated, that's not particularly surprising, except for the part sbout there being a clerk in there to begin with.


Are you sure it was a Waldenbooks? Because they don't exist anymore.


i meant to say that if my memory serves me waldenbooks went out of business in 2011.

In response to those who have pointed out how Waldenbooks went out of business in 2011, it was in fact a Waldenbooks for many years at that location in the mall I visited, and I’m almost certain it was still a Waldenbooks' sign I saw hanging above the store’s entrance. I just did some research, however, to clear up my confusion, and realized you are all correct. The store at that mall is now a “Books-A-Million”.

ReflectiveAcuity
01-07-2013, 09:26 PM
I'm seeing used book stores coming back, and thriving, and in some areas, independent, locally owned book stores are back and doing well. I'm hoping both trends increase.

Me too.

shadowwalker
01-07-2013, 09:58 PM
Maybe it's just the location. The two B&Ns in the city near me are always filled, and over Christmas you could barely move. And although they do have other items (games, DVDs, etc) the crowds were among the books.

Medievalist
01-07-2013, 10:10 PM
The store at that mall is now a “Books-A-Million”.

I believe that Books-A-Million primarily sells remaindered books, that is new books that are excess stock or liquidated "remaindered" stock from the distributor or publisher.

That might explain the low traffic during a shopping period when people are typically looking for specific books for gifts.

Write_Askew
01-07-2013, 10:24 PM
I came in here totally expecting a discussion about this article (http://mhpbooks.com/the-slow-death-of-barnes-and-noble/) foretelling the downfall of Barnes and Noble in a manner similar to the late (and missed) Borders. I can't say I agree with all that's in the article, but it did give me food for thought.

That said, I can't imagine a time when there aren't books in print. I'm sure fifty years from now I'll look back on that comment and laugh, but I try not to envision a future without pen and ink books. It bothers me. I think there is still a market out there for paperback books. I hope there is.

My town's Borders closed and I was disappointed. If my town's Barnes and Noble closed too, I might go crazy. There aren't any indie stores where I live, and a scarily low number of used book stores.

This may not be a great contribution to this conversation, since books can be printed without the existence of brick and mortar stores, but I thought it was worth considering.

Medievalist
01-07-2013, 10:35 PM
There aren't any indie stores where I live, and a scarily low number of used book stores.

This may not be a great contribution to this conversation, since books can be printed without the existence of brick and mortar stores, but I thought it was worth considering.

No, I think it's important. I'm increasingly weirded out by Amazon's tactics. I think the DOJ is looking at the wrong corporations.

Brick-and-mortar stores are still driving books sales in ways that people outside of sales and publishing may not realize.

And I think that's especially true of Barnes and Noble, who in some ways get ebooks much better than Amazon. I love the way they sell both print and ebooks in their store. I read an interview that I'll try to find with someone in the executive hierarchy of B and N who noted how often readers would buy a print and an ebook copy of a book; that matches my personal habits, as well as the data I helped collect in the dawn of ebooks about how people read and bought books.

I truly don't see ebooks and printed books as competitor, any more than I see paperback and hardcover as true competitors.

I do think we'll see better quality POD production methods, that prices of POD will come down and quality will go up, and I think we'll see more options like the Espresso Book Machine, (http://www.ondemandbooks.com/) as well as easy to use digital vending systems for ebooks.

At least, that's my hope.

LJD
01-07-2013, 10:44 PM
I was at Indigo (Chapters-Indigo is the main chain here) a few days before Christmas and it was packed. The line to pay was about 15 minutes.

Komnena
01-07-2013, 11:08 PM
I bought a Kobo when Borders closed. I still remember feeling a bit of a traitor when I opened its box and my pleasure when I discovered that it was possible to obtain a classic library and carry it around in my purse. Books are books. I still love my printed books and always will. But I think it is also a great thing to have a small library in my purse for trips and the doctor's office.

Vito
01-07-2013, 11:13 PM
Are Books Becoming Obsolete?


I hope not. I usually can't tolerate sitting in front of a computer screen (or a Kindle or a Nook or a whatever) for more than 15 minutes at a time, so printed books are my main reading source. I also don't like audiobooks.

The other day I was thinking about something. Remember that old "Twilight Zone" episode in which Burgess Meredith plays the role of a bookworm who gets locked in a bank vault during a nuclear attack? And then he leaves the vault, discovers that he's the only one who survived the explosion, and happily builds stacks of books that he wants to read in his sweet sweet solitude? Well, that episode wouldn't have been very much fun if ol' Burgess had been using a Kindle!

IAMWRITER
01-08-2013, 12:32 AM
Last time I was in a bookshop I had to wait in a quene of about ten minutes to get served - granted it was a week before Xmas but still.

I hope physical books never became rare, nevermind extinct. They've survived all these years with just as many people loving them.

I myself dream of having a physical book printed and on shelves, maybe point to someone and say "I wrote that!". Also no e-books can ever replace the smell of a new book or an old book for that matter.

Ken
01-08-2013, 12:57 AM
I have returned to this forum to post this question. I hadn’t visited or written in this forum for a while because, quite frankly, I was very disappointed in what appeared to be extensive rudeness exhibited by many of the members here.

... what's this about "rudeness?" No one here is rude. You must be imagining things. People on AW are very nice and polite to one another. Sorry, but I just don't get this part of your post -- at all.

ReflectiveAcuity
01-08-2013, 02:12 AM
... what's this about "rudeness?" No one here is rude. You must be imagining things. People on AW are very nice and polite to one another. Sorry, but I just don't get this part of your post -- at all.

While reading your comment I began chuckling at what I thought was very humorous sarcasm. Then I reached the end and wondered if you were actually being serious. Well, let’s just say that I am confident from your comment that things have changed since the last time I was active here on an almost daily basis. I can tell you there was a time when it seemed all anybody wanted to do in this forum was attack others for nearly anything the person had said. I got the impression that there were a hell of a lot of people in here menopausing.

I once started a thread where I discussed my thoughts about the difference in writing styles of male and female novel authors. The thread was very popular and attracted a great flow of responses. So a moderator shut down the thread and never explained why, only stating that it was time to “stop this”, or something to that effect. It was still there, you just couldn’t post any more replies.

Anyway, hopefully things are a lot better here.

RA

jjdebenedictis
01-08-2013, 02:13 AM
I have returned to this forum to post this question. I hadn’t visited or written in this forum for a while because, quite frankly, I was very disappointed in what appeared to be extensive rudeness exhibited by many of the members here. Making a point of saying that is incredibly rude.

backslashbaby
01-08-2013, 03:17 AM
People might not be in the mood to hear of/discuss personal conflicts when reading threads on forums like AW. Your title is intriguing. Folks may be excited to discuss it, but then they run into a bit of drama.

I'm straightforward and share my opinion too often, probably. So I get that :) It's Office Party, so maybe the personal comments about the forum are less inappropriate than they'd be in another sub-forum. In PC&E, we get to share a lot of strong opinions, for instance :D

But I agree that the crit of the forum was unnecessary in this thread. Folks may just want to discuss your OP subject in peace (as in, not having to wade through any drama).

I hope this post was helpful to show why some folks get irritated about how you did the OP. That's why I think it's 'wrong', anyway.

Alessandra Kelley
01-08-2013, 03:51 AM
It's remarkable bad luck how someone with only 32 posts managed to post on a daily basis and get an experience of rudeness. I am sorry for your misfortune.

Be that as it may, I've been an ardent book reader and fan all my life. I have haunted libraries and bookstores and web sites, drinking in the wonderful books.

But Waldenbooks and Books a Million stores always gave me headaches. I mean literally. There was something about their bland, uncaring atmosphere that made me feel sorry for the books there, but in no way enticed to browse.

I don't think an empty mall chain remaindered bookstore is indicative of something so momentous as the Death of the Book.

Write_Askew
01-08-2013, 07:58 AM
No, I think it's important. I'm increasingly weirded out by Amazon's tactics. I think the DOJ is looking at the wrong corporations.

Brick-and-mortar stores are still driving books sales in ways that people outside of sales and publishing may not realize.

And I think that's especially true of Barnes and Noble, who in some ways get ebooks much better than Amazon. I love the way they sell both print and ebooks in their store. I read an interview that I'll try to find with someone in the executive hierarchy of B and N who noted how often readers would buy a print and an ebook copy of a book; that matches my personal habits, as well as the data I helped collect in the dawn of ebooks about how people read and bought books.

I truly don't see ebooks and printed books as competitor, any more than I see paperback and hardcover as true competitors.

I do think we'll see better quality POD production methods, that prices of POD will come down and quality will go up, and I think we'll see more options like the Espresso Book Machine, (http://www.ondemandbooks.com/) as well as easy to use digital vending systems for ebooks.

At least, that's my hope.

I'm glad to hear I hadn't entirely missed the mark. I have yet to purchase an e-reader, although that has a lot to do with the fact that I would probably never get anything done if I had one. Its bad enough that I have a house full of books...but having a tablet full of them too would prevent me from ever getting any writing done. I remember the last time I was in an airport bookstore the guy there was trying to convince me to buy one by telling me I could fit every book I owned on it. I laughed at him. I felt bad for a moment and then I laughed again. Not only could I never afford to re-buy all of them, but it would take a remarkably large tablet to hold them all. Between my partner and I, we actually have a real library in our home. We're at something like 2000 volumes and growing every day.

More to the point, though, I like having the paperbacks. I think you make an interesting point about paperbacks and hardbacks being in competition with one another. I have a few authors of series that I collect their first edition paperbacks, and I'm always at war with whether or not I want the hardback too. Sometimes I can't resist.

That said, though, there are some authors who publish e-book exclusives. Romance author Eloisa James, for example, has several books that are not in print, but only in ebook format. I almost turned a cartwheel whenever I found out she was releasing a collection of a few of her e-books in paperback. I think its brilliant marketing. I've almost bought a tablet several times because there are authors I love printing e-book exclusives. I think they would make great companion marketing pieces, if done correctly.

While I was irritated to see B&N rip out entire sections of my local store in install a nook station, I'll admit that it has done a lot for their sales, from what I can see. There's always a ton of people in there purchasing and learning more about them. Not to mention they're really savvy about putting books out that also have e-book formats, so you can have both.

I'll look forward to that article, if you can find it.

benluby
01-08-2013, 08:08 AM
Our local Borders went out of business last year, which surprised my wife and I, as it was usually fairly busy. We were regular customers, in fact, buying a couple books each every time we went up there.
Sadly, we have no other actual book stores in this town.

mccardey
01-08-2013, 11:05 AM
It's remarkable bad luck how someone with only 32 posts managed to post on a daily basis and get an experience of rudeness.

Oh, I dunno - perhaps he just ran into a lot of women writers..?

Caitlin Black
01-08-2013, 11:41 AM
Kind of off-topic (kind of) but when did B&N put in a Nook area in their stores? We don't have that chain where I live, but I ask because 1.5 years ago, when I was doing a retail class, I needed to write a paper (well, more like a presentation) on an innovative idea for a retail store.

I chose a book store, and said that I'd love to be able to sell e-books in an actual book store, which I thought might go a long way to saving the failing stores down here from increased revenue.

I couldn't quite work out the logistics of being able to sell the ebooks for any more than online (to turn a profit) aside from maybe getting a discount from the publisher and selling them at online-prices anyway...

But yeah, this thread is the first I've heard of a physical book store selling ebooks, and it piqued my interest (and made me wish I owned a book store 1.5 years ago, so I could've been the first to do it :tongue).

davidh219
01-08-2013, 12:13 PM
Print books are still alive and well, I assure you. Brick and mortar book stores are another matter, however. Online shopping is the new thing, and that means that the only stores that have a secure future are department stores like Walmart, and convenience stores like Walgreens. Specialty stores are becoming less common, and book have always been a specialty item. Online shopping is the perfect platform for specialty items though. Any bookstore would burst at the seems trying to cater to everyone's tastes, but Amazon has ALL of the books. I, personally, buy almost all of my books off Amazon.

Add that to the fact that, while the amount of regular readers on the planet compared to a hundred years ago has increased, the actual percentage of readers compared to the population as a whole has decreased.
And, yes, a lot of people read their books on an e-reader these days as well. This cuts into the profit margins of brick and mortar book stores even more.

What it all boils down to is an economy that makes it harder for traditional book stores to stay in business. The ones that get by do it by only carrying the most profitable items. The new stuff, the trending stuff, the books that were made into big movies in the past few years, etc. I never, EVER go into plain old book stores, because I know that there's nothing there that I would be interested in, and even if there is it would be less expensive somewhere else. If I'm not buying books off Amazon or Ebay I'm buying them from a thrift shop.

Basically Walmart is going to enslave us, is what I think I'm trying to say, so...yeah.

Civic
01-08-2013, 12:47 PM
They better not be! I prefer a physical cover-and-pages book in my hand rather than reading a mini monitor; I do that eight hours a day anyway. Besides, I'd like to read without worrying about battery life.

Caitlin Black
01-08-2013, 12:58 PM
One thing to keep in mind is that, in the event of an emergency, flinging an ereader at someone may hurt more than flinging a paper book at them.

Unless it's a thick hardcover book, or War And Peace or something.

This is why the future of novels is that they will be printed on a broadsword. Mmhmm.

/derail

Write_Askew
01-08-2013, 09:03 PM
Kind of off-topic (kind of) but when did B&N put in a Nook area in their stores? We don't have that chain where I live, but I ask because 1.5 years ago, when I was doing a retail class, I needed to write a paper (well, more like a presentation) on an innovative idea for a retail store.

I chose a book store, and said that I'd love to be able to sell e-books in an actual book store, which I thought might go a long way to saving the failing stores down here from increased revenue.

I couldn't quite work out the logistics of being able to sell the ebooks for any more than online (to turn a profit) aside from maybe getting a discount from the publisher and selling them at online-prices anyway...

But yeah, this thread is the first I've heard of a physical book store selling ebooks, and it piqued my interest (and made me wish I owned a book store 1.5 years ago, so I could've been the first to do it :tongue).

I think the one in my B&N was put in about a year or so ago. They got rid of the section in the back where they used to have all of the CD's and movies and moved some of the stacks back there. The whole center of the store is now a huge Nook promo area. In the center there's a bunch of different styles of Nooks on little counters rather like you see at cell phone stores for the phones. They have a bunch of magazines and books on the inside walls, showing you what you can get on the Nook. They offer tech help as well. If you're new to e-books and such, its great opportunity. I see a ton of older people (my grandmothers age) in there learning. Its a great marketing tool.

Not owning a tablet myself, I have no idea what else they do. I'll have to go check it out and report back. Its an interesting concept, isn't it?

Medievalist
01-08-2013, 09:48 PM
In the 1990s The Voyager Company created kiosks to sell ebooks and multimedia enriched ebooks on CD-ROMs. We partnered with Borders, Chapters, and a number of independent book stores.

buz
01-08-2013, 10:55 PM
One thing to keep in mind is that, in the event of an emergency, flinging an ereader at someone may hurt more than flinging a paper book at them.

Unless it's a thick hardcover book, or War And Peace or something.

This is why the future of novels is that they will be printed on a broadsword. Mmhmm.

/derail

*imagines a little screen with scrolling text on a broadsword*

...this is even better than your e-readers in bookstores idea. Maybe a little impractical, but who cares. It's awesome.

Dorky
01-08-2013, 11:54 PM
I don’t think they are. I think a lot of people are buying online more. Even with that said, a lot of the Barnes&Noble stores in my area still get pretty busy in the evenings.

There’s ebooks to take into account too. They’re convenient to read on and buy from. I think that the e-readers may account for some people buying less physical books. However, since it is so easy to read on, I also think it makes it easy for non-readers to discover something they enjoy reading or for ardent readers to discover new authors :) As a result, these new readers may end up buying physical copies of books they are particularly fond of.

Caitlin Black
01-09-2013, 02:19 AM
Thanks Write Askew. That's interesting Medi.

And Buz - yeah, I have some nice ideas once in a while. :tongue

Silver King
01-09-2013, 06:05 AM
...I got the impression that there were a hell of a lot of people in here menopausing.
Didn't you mean to say, ...a lot of women in here menopausing?

I can't imagine the condition would apply to any of the males among us.


...I once started a thread where I discussed my thoughts about the difference in writing styles of male and female novel authors. The thread was very popular and attracted a great flow of responses. So a moderator shut down the thread and never explained why, only stating that it was time to “stop this”, or something to that effect. It was still there, you just couldn’t post any more replies.
You either have a faulty memory or are deliberately misleading others: The thread was not popular in the least, nor did it attract a great flow of responses, as you claim. The discussion lasted a mere one hour and sixteen minutes, with a total of fourteen posts before it was closed for obvious reasons.

You can see for yourself here (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232453), and I'd recommend that you reread the thread to learn how best to word your posts so that you don't encounter similar problems in the future.

In addition, stop exaggerating the way you've been treated here and acting as if you've been wronged in some way. If anything, you're the one who's been rude, at least in this discussion, while insulting women and any other clear thinking person with your "menopausing" reference.

For your own sake, don't ever lie or exaggerate or disrespect anyone in this room again, or anywhere else on AW. I won't ask that of you again, so please take note of that advice.

buz
01-09-2013, 06:21 AM
Didn't you mean to say, ...a lot of women in here menopausing?



I really don't think that makes it better... ;)

Alessandra Kelley
01-09-2013, 06:31 AM
Print books are still alive and well, I assure you. Brick and mortar book stores are another matter, however. Online shopping is the new thing, and that means that the only stores that have a secure future are department stores like Walmart, and convenience stores like Walgreens. Specialty stores are becoming less common, and book have always been a specialty item. Online shopping is the perfect platform for specialty items though. Any bookstore would burst at the seems trying to cater to everyone's tastes, but Amazon has ALL of the books. I, personally, buy almost all of my books off Amazon.

Add that to the fact that, while the amount of regular readers on the planet compared to a hundred years ago has increased, the actual percentage of readers compared to the population as a whole has decreased.
And, yes, a lot of people read their books on an e-reader these days as well. This cuts into the profit margins of brick and mortar book stores even more.

What it all boils down to is an economy that makes it harder for traditional book stores to stay in business. The ones that get by do it by only carrying the most profitable items. The new stuff, the trending stuff, the books that were made into big movies in the past few years, etc. I never, EVER go into plain old book stores, because I know that there's nothing there that I would be interested in, and even if there is it would be less expensive somewhere else. If I'm not buying books off Amazon or Ebay I'm buying them from a thrift shop.

Basically Walmart is going to enslave us, is what I think I'm trying to say, so...yeah.

Well, now, that's interesting.

I notice you live in Chicago. So do I.

I live within walking distance of no less than six bookstores, only one of which is a chain (Barnes and Noble). The others are all independent bookstores: one academic, one general, two secondhand, and one comics and games bookshop.

The comics shop is only a few years old, but the others have been here for decades. They were here before a humongous Borders got built on a busy neighborhood intersection, and they remain here now that Borders has gone bankrupt and its shiny new building converted into retail and a nightclub.

Granted, it's an academic neighborhood. Nevertheless, my Chicago neighborhood supports five thriving independent bookshops, all independent of the university too (the Barnes and Noble is its "official" bookshop).

And guess what? None of them carry "the most profitable items. The new stuff, the trending stuff, the books that were made into big movies in the past few years." They are all different from each other, but together they carry an eclectic mix of fabulous academic books, scholarly art books, the best children's book department in Chicago, seriously valuable collectible and antiquarian books, just about any of the great books of literature in a used or inexpensive paperback form, fun remaindered books, comic books, gaming books, cookbooks, mysteries, science fiction, and technical manuals.

There are some things that can't be found around here. Most magazines. Novelizations of the latest Hollywood blockbusters. Big, candy-colored TV show character kids' books. Pop religion. All the mainstays of the trendy stores.

And yet somehow our bookstores thrive.

Silver King
01-09-2013, 06:36 AM
I really don't think that makes it better... ;)

You're right, of course. Thank you for pointing that out. What I meant to convey was that he used menopause to apply to "people" in general when what he meant to do was insult women in particular. That's the way I read his post anyway, and I have a pretty good feel for intention most of the time.

Caitlin Black
01-09-2013, 07:30 AM
Actually, my impression of that comment was to try to covertly offend either gender. It works two ways - the implied "woman's problems = irrational" thing as well as the implied "men seeming like women = inferior."

I was offended as a human being, not as either gender.

(Then again, I tend to not give people the benefit of the doubt when they say something incendiary. Call me a hard-arse, but that's just me.)

KellyAssauer
01-09-2013, 08:41 AM
Some historians say the modern printing press with moveable type began in 1454... and if it's true, that means physical books have been around for 559 years.

This digital age provides a new mode of presenting the written book, but it probably won't replace it. We need hard copies. If we don't have them, then 5 years from now when all of the current ereaders can't upgrade to the mandated new OS... someone can go back and scan all the real ones again...

And besides... When's the last time you went into your local computer store, stopped just inside the doorway, and took in a big deep breath of that intoxicating scent...

I'm guessing never?


Didn't you mean to say, ...a lot of women in here menopausing?

SK? Can you explain Cray to me? ;)

Medievalist
01-09-2013, 08:45 AM
As much as I personally love ebooks, I worry about how the digital divide will be a problem.

There are a lot of young people today in various places (including the U.S.) who have little or no real access to digital technology.

If literacy and the spread of literacy is dependent on digital tech, we're creating a serious problem for the near and distant future.

mccardey
01-09-2013, 10:04 AM
I got the impression that there were a hell of a lot of people in here menopausing.




Oh, bless him - isn't he precious? And that whole thread started off so terribly well! (No I'm not going to quote it, but since he keeps referencing it, I imagine it's fair game to talk about it...?)

Where's my popcorn?

Booker
01-09-2013, 10:19 AM
^whatever mccardey said (although not sure whats she talking 'bout)

MacAllister
01-09-2013, 10:44 AM
It's probably about uterus juice. Just, yanno, in s00per-s3Kret woman-code.

mccardey
01-09-2013, 10:46 AM
It's probably about uterus juice. Just, yanno, in s00per-s3Kret woman-code.

Just try not to get it on anything...

Booker
01-09-2013, 10:49 AM
It's probably about uterus juice. Just, yanno, in s00per-s3Kret woman-code.


Woot? Nonetheless I love it!

MacAllister
01-09-2013, 10:52 AM
I can't actually take credit for it. I'm echoing a post made by a member who then had second thoughts and deleted it.

mccardey
01-09-2013, 10:56 AM
I so wanna buy that member a drink.

("Member" sounds rude, doesn't it? Or is it just me? I'm getting this terrible mental image..)

Medievalist
01-09-2013, 10:57 AM
Oh, bless him - isn't he precious? And that whole thread started off so terribly well! (No I'm not going to quote it, but since he keeps referencing it, I imagine it's fair game to talk about it...?)

Where's my popcorn?

Oh, I guess you checked the post history. It's just ducky.

mccardey
01-09-2013, 10:58 AM
Oh, I guess you checked the post history. It's just ducky.

I did. It was. :roll:

Medievalist
01-09-2013, 10:58 AM
Oh, Mac - are you menopausing again...? Just try not to get it on anything.

I expect you lot all have girl cooties.

MacAllister
01-09-2013, 11:23 AM
Uterus.

Vagina.

Ovulate.

Cervix.

Menopause.

Labia.

Mammaries.

Clitoris.

(There. I have girl-cootied the whole thread. BAHAHAHAAH!!!! SK, if you need to delete this later for public disorderly conduct in your room, I completely understand. But it seemed, er...hysterical...at the time.)

Sydneyd
01-09-2013, 11:27 AM
Uterus.

Vagina.

Cervix.

Menopause.

Labia.

Mammaries.

Clitoris.

(There. I have girl-cootied the whole thread. BAHAHAHAAH!!!! SK, if you need to delete this later for public disorderly conduct in your room, I completely understand. But it seemed, er...hysterical...at the time.)

You forgot menstruation

I mean, let's not leave that gem out.

MacAllister
01-09-2013, 11:33 AM
You forgot menstruation

I mean, let's not leave that gem out.

Indeed! Well-taken, and thank you. :D

Medievalist
01-09-2013, 11:41 AM
You forgot menstruation

I mean, let's not leave that gem out.

Exactly. I hear it's bad to skip menstruation.

benbradley
01-09-2013, 11:43 AM
My member has boy cooties. Maybe the pharmacist can give me something for it.

MacAllister
01-09-2013, 11:46 AM
It seems to me that Silver King has the situation well in hand.

Vespertilion
01-09-2013, 11:47 AM
Circle, circle, dot, dot--now you have a cootie shot.

*squints*

Or boobs.

Medievalist
01-09-2013, 11:52 AM
Circle, circle, dot, dot--now you have a cootie shot.

Alack and well-a-day, some problems are ab ovo, and have no cure.

I think girl cooties are, like, permanent.

Vespertilion
01-09-2013, 11:53 AM
What a load of pap.

(s)

Medievalist
01-09-2013, 11:55 AM
What a load of pap.

(s)

[cough]

Thanks for the mammaries.

I'm going to have nip this in the bud.

Old Hack
01-09-2013, 11:57 AM
Oh good grief, I love this thread.

mccardey
01-09-2013, 11:59 AM
You forgot menstruation.

I mean, let's not leave that gem out.

Sydney - you missed a period.

(Don't worry - I fixed it for ya)

Medievalist
01-09-2013, 12:00 PM
Oh good grief, I love this thread.

I expect our amazing Silver King will hate us all.

evilrooster
01-09-2013, 12:03 PM
You lot have completely ballsed up the OP's lovely thread, you know.

Caitlin Black
01-09-2013, 12:50 PM
:)

KellyAssauer
01-09-2013, 03:44 PM
You lot have completely ballsed up the OP's lovely thread, you know.

Yes, but we've been so terribly polite about it.
I mean that counts for something, right?

:D

evilrooster
01-09-2013, 03:51 PM
I have returned to this forum to post this question. I hadn’t visited or written in this forum for a while because, quite frankly, I was very disappointed in what appeared to be extensive rudeness exhibited by many of the members here.

If I could briefly return to the OP, I'd like to make a simple observation of human behavior.

Coming into a community to tell them that they're rude, collectively or (anonymously) individually, is not a very good way to get them interested in what you have to say. People identify with their communities, and tend to find it difficult to hear them criticized, particularly unspecifically, and especially on home turf.

As a writer, you should consider your audience. Whatever else you did in this posting, you did not do that. The degree to which people in this thread engaged with your anecdote anyway is to their credit.

Old Hack
01-09-2013, 04:19 PM
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

Sorry, rooster. Did you say something? I was too busy menopausing to hear.

KellyAssauer
01-09-2013, 04:29 PM
Sorry, rooster. Did you say something? I was too busy menopausing to hear.

Pretty sure rooster was just apologizing, again, for being such a bossy newbie. ;)

Whoa. Is it really hot in here, or is it me?

KellyAssauer
01-09-2013, 05:37 PM
“Kelly Louise, don’t you dare...” my voice was soft, yet insistent as I watched my daughter pause her pink pudgy seven-year-old finger inches from the dangling lip of a large metal contraption in the shape of a giant flower bloom. The handwritten label hanging from an attached iron crank read: 1920’s Victrola.

She brought her hand down and then scoured the contents of a display case in the rear of the odds-and-ends shop that we had wandered into in an attempt to find her father a birthday gift. The ritual was that I’d ask him what he wanted for his birthday, and he’d lock his gaze into my eyes and say “I have everything I ever wanted” - a response that made my knees weak, but never solved the issue.

This year, little Kelly insisted she buy Daddy something with her own money. We examined the case contents together. A cloth backed board held lapel buttons with I Like Ike, Peace symbols, Union Jacks, and larger black circles that read simply: Parental Advisory. I could see my girls reflection in the glass, how she clutched her bank fob. Her familiarity with today’s mode of funds transfer made me feel as dated as the shop’s contents. I hadn’t quite caught onto that instant purchase hand jiggle of what went for money in 2045.

I stooped to her level and we scanned the bottom shelf where rows of brightly colored plastic cases of days gone by were identified as Eight-track tapes, Atari Games, iPods, eReaders...

Wha?

It could happen! :Shrug:

mccardey
01-09-2013, 05:39 PM
Troubling, on so many levels...

evilrooster
01-09-2013, 06:27 PM
Sorry, rooster. Did you say something? I was too busy menopausing to hear.

Well, menobloodyPLAY, woman!

buz
01-10-2013, 01:06 AM
I can't actually take credit for it. I'm echoing a post made by a member who then had second thoughts and deleted it.


I so wanna buy that member a drink.

("Member" sounds rude, doesn't it? Or is it just me? I'm getting this terrible mental image..)

Well, sometimes I throb.

Sorry...I honestly have a hard time telling when I'm being totally inappropriate and then I read it again and I thought maybe I'd crossed the line of appropriateness. But I've been told by important people to put it back.

I don't remember it exactly...it was something to the effect of--

It is true that, as a woman, I'm prone to flying into a menopausal rage at the slightest provocation, like the Hulk, except instead of gamma rays, my muscles are bulging with uterus juice. Unless it's a premenstrual rage, in which case I turn blood red and murder everyone in my path as I eat all the cake in the universe.

--or something.

I apologize for my shitty judgement call. I blame it on my current premenstrual ovary-hysteria. Can I still be a member?

benbradley
01-10-2013, 01:51 AM
* backs away slowly from thread *

Cavalcade
01-10-2013, 06:53 AM
There used to be a dozen or more book stores in my area, now there are only two. One sells used books, and it always looks pretty deserted. The other store sells new books only and is located in a shopping mall. It is always conspicuously quiet, and will likely be gone once their lease expires.

Silver King
01-11-2013, 05:38 AM
Uterus.

Vagina.

Ovulate.

Cervix.

Menopause.

Labia.

Mammaries.

Clitoris.

(There. I have girl-cootied the whole thread. BAHAHAHAAH!!!! SK, if you need to delete this later for public disorderly conduct in your room, I completely understand. But it seemed, er...hysterical...at the time.)
Delete it? Heck, I want it enshrined, which is why I'm going to stick this thread to the top of Office Party for a while. :)


I expect our amazing Silver King will hate us all.
Love is more like it. :Thumbs:

BardSkye
01-11-2013, 07:53 AM
Silver King delete something that good? Never. He's a sweetheart down under those flashing silver scales.

Kaylabirdy
01-11-2013, 08:10 AM
If the question is regarding printed books vs. ebooks...

Half of me wants to say that printed books will never go out of style. The smell of old pages? The feel of the weight in your hand? The beauty of leather-bound hardcover? Gold leaf on the edge that is worn in places over time? These things are timeless and will exist for years to come.

The other half of me looks at my spending habits over the past couple years for ebooks vs. printed books and says it's just a matter of time before printed books and personal libraries are a thing of myth and legend.

Despite that, some books are too good not to get in print. When I get them, I think to myself that someone...someday...will have access to this book when others have long forgotten it because I got it in print. Maybe some great niece or great nephew (I have no kids of my own) will inherit my personal library and remember me as their great aunt who wanted them to know the joy and love of a good printed book.

It's just a downright heart-wrenching happy thought when I think about my book obsession like that! :P

backslashbaby
01-11-2013, 09:41 PM
Y'all forgot endometriosis.

One day I'll learn how to harness it and use it for my superpower of doom. Muahahahaha!

L. Y.
01-14-2013, 04:43 AM
So this is how one gets a thread stickied....

:evil






...nah, I better not.

*wanders off to welcome some new members*


:D

epullins
01-21-2013, 01:08 PM
I am fairly young but I guess I am old fashioned because I would choose a good old fashioned hard cover book over my tablet. But then again I used to like to use a notebook and pens versus my laptop when in college taking notes (which was just less than two years ago). I have no idea what the rest of the thread was talking about but I just wanted to randomly state my case on the sad and alarming rate of those obsolete pleasures we called books.

Komnena
01-21-2013, 05:52 PM
epullins
It has been my experience that digital bookstores sell books long out of print in physical form. I just finished reading one such I really enjoyed titled 54'40 or fight by Emerson Hough.

Old Hack
01-21-2013, 09:17 PM
Just because a title is out of print doesn't mean print copies are no longer available (http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/SearchResults?an=Emerson+Hough&bt.x=42&bt.y=16&sts=t&tn=54%2740+or+fight).

Heh.

Wilde_at_heart
01-21-2013, 09:59 PM
I think part of the problem is that Amazon is selling so many printed books that smaller chains and sometimes smaller bookstores are no longer able to compete.

I'm seeing used book stores coming back, and thriving, and in some areas, independent, locally owned book stores are back and doing well. I'm hoping both trends increase.

I'm hoping that it means that more printed books will be produced as durable objects, with better paper, ink, and bindings, so that they will last.

But I also am very grateful that more books are available as ebooks; I have a hard time reading many print books because of the type, and because my hands get tired rapidly when I have to grip anything.

And niche stores as well. A 'Comic Book' shop just expanded where I live and they sell books as well as graphic novels.

It's the Big Box chain store that might be on its way out and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.

benbradley
01-21-2013, 10:55 PM
And niche stores as well. A 'Comic Book' shop just expanded where I live and they sell books as well as graphic novels.

It's the Big Box chain store that might be on its way out and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.
This is a problem for us NaNoWriMo types who have had write-ins at the cafes in the big box stores. I've bought books there because I was at write-ins.

What bothered me about the big box stores wasn't that they existed, but that they multiplied so much that they put so many of the smaller and indepent, new and used bookstores out of business (I saw this happening with Walgreens and other pharmacies - it seemed to be a business model at the time - expand to as many retail stores as possible, then sell off the ones making the least profit - for pharmacies those mostly became Dollar Generals). For older Atlanta bookstores there was Oxford, which ISTR was up to being a three-store chain, and also the wonderful Oxford Too which was Atlanta's biggest used bookstore (with probably more volumes than any other area bookstore, new or used, has ever had) until it went out of busines circa 1997. I'm surprised Book Nook survived, but they also have big selection of comics, CDs and LPs.

And as Old Hack points out, used copies of most any book ever printed will continue to be available, the only question is price. If it's rare and in demand, it's gonna cost. I might as well post this blog entry from a little while back - amazingly, my sources haven't changed much:

http://ben-bradley.blogspot.com/2007/08/how-and-where-i-buyget-books.html

And even new ebooks will be available as printed books for "a nominal charge" through Espresso book machines and whatever newer technology comes along. For a lasting book I'm hoping for something that prints with ink instead of copy machine/laser printer toner.

epullins
01-22-2013, 02:15 AM
Yeah, I have one Im reading now. A nice paperback by Dean Koontz. My 56 year old mother id trying to convince me to go digital and maybe I will one day but I still enjoy the old fashioned way. I couldn't have said it better than LadyKaybird. I have an crate full of old books from the 1800's that my mom purchased from an auction and I love going through them because they are a quite antiquated.

Komnena
01-22-2013, 04:58 AM
I buy books from abebooks on a regular basis. I enjoy reading printed books. It's just a bit difficult to put 800 of them into my purse. Also, I'm on a tight budget on both money and space. Digital books take up no extra space and many excellent ones are free.

Old Hack
01-22-2013, 11:09 AM
It's just a bit difficult to put 800 of them into my purse.

True, but I don't often feel the need to carry 800 books around with me at any one time. Two or three is usually enough for me.

Komnena
01-22-2013, 04:19 PM
We'll just have to differ on that issue, because on trips I've found the readers much easier to carry around. I too once viewed the readers with misgivings. I felt like a traitor when I took the Kobo out of its box. I stopped feeling like one when I discovered how easy the readers made it to have a good classic library literally at your fingertips.

Ol' Fashioned Girl
01-22-2013, 05:52 PM
I'm with Komnena. I resisted... but it was futile.

Komnena
01-22-2013, 06:22 PM
I surrendered when Borders closed.

Shadow_Ferret
02-06-2013, 01:01 AM
I guess I'm obsolete, too, then.

My only real misgiving about eBooks are that you can't buy them used.


You can't collect them. Well, I guess you could but its not the same as having a shelf full of first editions.


And you can't get them signed. I mean, there are digital signatures, but that's not quite the same, is it?


Ok. I guess I have 3 misgivings.

Komnena
02-16-2013, 05:19 PM
True, you can't buy them used but you can get many excellent ones free.
I have a good sized collection of ebooks.
True, I can't get them signed. However, I don't know of many classic authors who are still signing their books.
You can take ebooks on trips without risking losing your physical copies of your "shelf of first editions." I am working on collecting ecopies of Walter Farley books so that I can have them outside the house and yet not risk my physical copies.

Flutterlight
02-28-2013, 01:06 PM
My problem with ebooks is that no matter what device you read them on, it takes longer than if one was just to read text on paper. (LINK (http://www.pcworld.com/article/200491/Reading_On_Paper_Is_Faster_Than_iBooks_on_the_iPad .html)) This is especially true for me. When I read for fun, I'll average about 100 pages an hour. It takes me twice as long to read on a screen, and I get a headache after a while.

Additionally, a lot of fields in academia tend to prefer the book. Books have a definite advantage in the field of Art History, because every time you look at an image on a screen the colors change depending on what angle you're viewing from. The ability to quickly flip through pages is incredibly helpful when doing research.

I do, however, see the e-book industry eventually becoming larger than the print industry. E-books are appealing to customers because of the lower cost, and publishers like them because they can be sold for a higher margin. But books are not going to die out entirely.

Komnena
02-28-2013, 04:20 PM
Welcome Flutterlight!
I certainly hope that physical books don't die out. I enjoy reading physical books. There is no question but that physical books are much better for research.
But neither would I want to try reading a heavy art book in the checkout lane. Also, an older cousin of my husband can no longer read physical books. She has been able to do some reading on an Ipad.

Flutterlight
02-28-2013, 05:37 PM
Thanks Komnena!

That's really interesting. Is it that the Ipad is lighter and that's easier for your husband's cousin?

My problem with e-books is super dark text on a bright screen hurts my eyes and aggravates my dyslexia. I can't even use normal highlighters because the extreme contrast is painful. I had to buy gray markers. With a printed text, you generally don't have that problem and if you do, dimming the lights a bit can make it easier to read.

Medievalist
02-28-2013, 07:26 PM
My problem with e-books is super dark text on a bright screen hurts my eyes and aggravates my dyslexia. I can't even use normal highlighters because the extreme contrast is painful. I had to buy gray markers. With a printed text, you generally don't have that problem and if you do, dimming the lights a bit can make it easier to read.

Most of the various ebook platforms/readers allow you to adjust the font and the background; there's often a built in option for reading at night, too.

I would suggest looking, if you're curious, at one of the eink based readers, like a Kindle or a Nook, rather than the backlit options, like the iPad and most other tablets.

Some people prefer eink, some prefer back lit LCD screens.

I have to say that reading ebooks on the 3rd generation Retina iPad is quite startling in terms of clarity and clear text.

And the digital facsimiles of medieval mss. are exceedingly useful, beautiful, and well-done. It does get a little heavy for prolonged reading, and I do sometimes use a special pillow.

Flutterlight
02-28-2013, 07:50 PM
Unfortunately, I didn't mean the backlight itself was the problem, although it does contribute. Very dark text on a stark white, or neon backgrounds just hurts my eyes. It doesn't matter what the actual medium is. I've even had problems with paper & ink before.

The kindels with gray backgrounds are less awful than ipads, but the grey is just light enough that it still is problematic when paired with the pitch black, crisp text. And those new paperwhite screens are just awful.

I just wasn't built to use e-readers, it seems.

zarada
02-28-2013, 08:04 PM
there will always be books; on clay tablets, stone, paper, parchment, leather, skin, zinc foil, bark, and a zillion other materials yet unidentified. tablets, i'm sorry to say, will not work without electricity.

don't burn your paperback library, yet.

Caitlin Black
03-01-2013, 02:35 AM
But we can burn our hardcovers, right? Right?!

*desperately tries to put out flames*

:D

Medievalist
03-01-2013, 02:48 AM
But we can burn our hardcovers, right? Right?!

*desperately tries to put out flames*

:D

In all seriousness, be very cautious about burning books from the last twenty years or so; it's toxic. Lead, formaldehyde, and earlier, even mercury.

Komnena
03-01-2013, 03:27 AM
Print size can be adjusted on the Ipad so that older eyes can read it.
I have no intention of burning any of my books. Donating them to thrift stores, yes, but not burning them.

Caitlin Black
03-01-2013, 04:03 AM
In all seriousness, be very cautious about burning books from the last twenty years or so; it's toxic. Lead, formaldehyde, and earlier, even mercury.

I didn't know that, but seriously, I would *never* burn a book!

I'd feel almost as bad about burning a book as I would about killing someone. Neither is anything I have the constitution or personality for.

If I really wanted to get rid of a book that I didn't like, and nobody would take it (not even second-hand stores) - which has happened once - I'd recycle it. :)

benbradley
03-01-2013, 08:35 AM
In all seriousness, be very cautious about burning books from the last twenty years or so; it's toxic. Lead, formaldehyde, and earlier, even mercury.
Really? There was a brouhaha a few years ago about older childrens' books, especially as being resold in thrift stores, that books older than 20-30 or so years (I forget the exact age) couldn't be sold as books for childrens' use as they had lead in the ink.

I would have thought NEWER books would be LESS toxic - especially if they're to be sold in California.

Medievalist
03-01-2013, 10:43 AM
Really? There was a brouhaha a few years ago about older childrens' books, especially as being resold in thrift stores, that books older than 20-30 or so years (I forget the exact age) couldn't be sold as books for childrens' use as they had lead in the ink.

I would have thought NEWER books would be LESS toxic - especially if they're to be sold in California.

Part of the problem is that heat changes things.

The glue on hard covers is particularly nasty, as are metallic inks.

Medievalist
03-01-2013, 10:44 AM
Print size can be adjusted on the Ipad so that older eyes can read it.

In some apps; not, unfortunately, in all of them.

Medievalist
03-01-2013, 10:50 AM
I didn't know that, but seriously, I would *never* burn a book!

One of the harder things I had to learn to do in the early days of the invention of ebooks was to buy books, and slice off the binding so we could scan the pages using a sheet feeder, in order to make ebooks.

Don't laugh; I had a hard time the first time I did it not crying, and I still feel a little guilty.

That was in 1992-94.

Flash forward to 2007, when I had to move. I still had many of those severed books, wrapped in paper with masking tape around the package.

I threw them out, and yes, I still feel uncomfortable.

Can you say "The book is NOT a talisman."

(YES IT IS!)

Old Hack
03-01-2013, 11:17 AM
It SO is.

Caitlin Black
03-01-2013, 11:25 AM
Poor books. :(

The worst I've ever done to a book is write, in black texta along the edges, rude words on an Italian-to-English dictionary. This was back when I was incredibly frustrated in my Italian class, because I didn't understand it the way I did the sciencey subjects.

I think I wound up selling it in a garage sale, maybe... Or maybe I still have it... I don't know. Last I saw it was when I was going through all my possessions to see what could go into the garage sale.

I have a hunch I kept it, actually, as I want to learn Italian properly one day.

Poor innocent dictionary...

zarada
03-01-2013, 12:11 PM
...Flash forward to 2007, when I had to move. I still had many of those severed books, wrapped in paper with masking tape around the package.

I threw them out, and yes, I still feel uncomfortable...





and well you should, they could easily have been bound into real books again... all you needed is glue, some fabric, and cardboard for the covers. for the first few, it will have looked like a homemade job, but... you'd still be having the books. once you get the hang of it, you can make them look as nice as you want.

edit: actually it didn't dawn on me that i could do this myself until a short while ago when one my fave paperbacks came apart at the seams (from overuse).

Flutterlight
03-01-2013, 02:09 PM
I actually own a couple of books about bookbinding in case something like that happens to my books. (I've got some older art history volumes I can easily see falling apart at some point.)

Medievalist
03-01-2013, 07:45 PM
and well you should, they could easily have been bound into real books again... all you needed is glue, some fabric, and cardboard for the covers. for the first few, it will have looked like a homemade job, but... you'd still be having the books. once you get the hang of it, you can make them look as nice as you want.


Re-binding a cut up book printed in the 1980s that's been through a sheet-fed scanner is pointless. For one thing; there isn't gutter/inner margin enough left to bind.

It's especially pointless when the book is a paperback. Acidic paper doesn't last.

Binding any book in the fashion you describe isn't going to produce something durable.

Caitlin Black
03-02-2013, 01:44 AM
This reminds me of an author interview in the back of Good Omens by Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett, where they talk about how the fans getting that book signed have always had very battered copies.

One got dropped in the bath tub, another fell apart and was held together by duct tape.

/random

LOG
03-05-2013, 07:31 AM
I like the concept of ebooks, but I wish publishers would stop trying to gouge people by keeping ebooks at the same price (if not higher) than their physical copies. People have been telling me for years that the market's in flux. How long does it take to adjust to the idea that you sell something that costs less to produce at a lesser price?

Just saw one book on B&N, it's a piece of fiction based on the Forgotten Realms setting of D&D. Not exactly high art, but I like them well enough for light reading now and again. They want $15 for the thing. Even worse, it's 45% off. WTH?
No. Just no.
I've bought 2,000 page epics for less.

Better yet, I've thought of perusing Atlas Shrugged several times, but every time I checked it's priced at $20+ USD.

[/griping]

Caitlin Black
03-05-2013, 08:51 AM
Well, I played around with mum's ereader yesterday and got it working. Downloaded a free ebook to try it out, then found 3 free ebooks preloaded into Kindle-For-PC, which also went on there.

It's probably too soon to tell if I like ereaders, but it was pretty painless getting it to work, and I like the immediacy of it - I can download something instantly without going into a store or waiting for delivery (usually from overseas). So points for that. :)

Old Hack
03-05-2013, 11:05 AM
I like the concept of ebooks, but I wish publishers would stop trying to gouge people by keeping ebooks at the same price (if not higher) than their physical copies. People have been telling me for years that the market's in flux. How long does it take to adjust to the idea that you sell something that costs less to produce at a lesser price?

While it seems obvious that e-books should cost less because they're not a physical object, that's not actually the case.

There's not that much difference in print and electronic production costs: printing does cost, but then so does formatting and updating.

What difference there is is usually mopped up by the higher royalties the authors are paid, which I have no problem with.

buz
03-06-2013, 12:32 AM
I like the concept of ebooks, but I wish publishers would stop trying to gouge people by keeping ebooks at the same price (if not higher) than their physical copies. People have been telling me for years that the market's in flux. How long does it take to adjust to the idea that you sell something that costs less to produce at a lesser price?

Just saw one book on B&N, it's a piece of fiction based on the Forgotten Realms setting of D&D. Not exactly high art, but I like them well enough for light reading now and again. They want $15 for the thing. Even worse, it's 45% off. WTH?
No. Just no.
I've bought 2,000 page epics for less.

Better yet, I've thought of perusing Atlas Shrugged several times, but every time I checked it's priced at $20+ USD.

[/griping]

It is priced at $14 for a paperback and $13 for an ebook on B&N. (http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/atlas-shrugged-ayn-rand/1100012229)

Also, there are these things called libraries...:D :D

Looking at other random books on B&N, I'm consistently seeing that the ebook is priced slightly lower than the physical versions. I'm not saying that that's the case all the time, as this is a very cursory look I'm taking here, and I'm not diving into Amazon (I don't enough about Amazon's publisher/pricing mess), but I'm not convinced yet that it happens the other way around a whole lot...

TheDancingWriter
05-03-2013, 01:24 AM
I love reading on my Surface. I read books quicker because I don't have to hold it. I can lie in my bed however I like without having to worry about adjusting a book.

I know I'd love to buy The Fault in Our Stars on my Surface, but it costs more than the physical copy! Just what???

SuspiciousCookie
05-03-2013, 01:44 AM
I wasn't sure about necroing this thread before (even though it's a sticky), but now I guess it doesn't matter anymore.

I'm sure having a light screen with all my books in it instead of a large collection of thick and heavy paper books would come in handy.

However, I still somehow prefer the good ol' books you can hold in your hands and flip the pages. How does it work on an electronic device, anyway? Do you have to scroll the page down to read on, or do you click to advance to the next page immediately? Because, I wouldn't really like the former. It would feel to much like a script, like the first draft of a book, instead of a finished and published one.

Maybe I'll get one of 'em Kindles or something like that at some point. But if so, it would probably take quite a while. Holding a book in my hands is also a good way to become more muscular. I need those muscles on my tiny little cookie arms.

Cheers,
Cookie

UndergoingMitosis
05-03-2013, 02:56 AM
I wasn't sure about necroing this thread before (even though it's a sticky), but now I guess it doesn't matter anymore.

I'm sure having a light screen with all my books in it instead of a large collection of thick and heavy paper books would come in handy.

However, I still somehow prefer the good ol' books you can hold in your hands and flip the pages. How does it work on an electronic device, anyway? Do you have to scroll the page down to read on, or do you click to advance to the next page immediately? Because, I wouldn't really like the former. It would feel to much like a script, like the first draft of a book, instead of a finished and published one.

Maybe I'll get one of 'em Kindles or something like that at some point. But if so, it would probably take quite a while. Holding a book in my hands is also a good way to become more muscular. I need those muscles on my tiny little cookie arms.

Cheers,
Cookie

You click to advance the page. No scrolling on any e-reader I know of.

For the record, I was really resistant about buying an e-reader, and I'm into gadgets. My grandmother bought me a nook for Christmas a couple years ago and I returned it for some paper books instead. I am officially the worst granddaughter ever. Especially because I have now purchased a kindle and I love it.

I've had it since January, and the fact that I can look at a book, decide that I want to read it, and then be actually reading it in a matter of seconds is ridiculously awesome. College had made me into a bit of a literary snob, but buying a book on kindle seems like less of a commitment, so I've taken chances on books that I wouldn't have otherwise. And for 5 bucks or less, they cost less than a large latte. If I don't like it, that's cool. I don't even have to look at it on the shelf, staring at me, mocking me for being so foolish as to purchase a terrible book. Okay, maybe that's a little neurotic, but still. The kindle is pretty nice.

The best thing about it has been discovering self-pubbers. Some of them are really, really good, and you can often get books for a dollar--or even free, if the author is running a promotion. I've read some pretty bad books this way, but also some really great ones. I still love my paper books, but I think I love them the way some music enthusiasts love vinyl. Paper books have a really great *feel*, so I don't think they're going anywhere. I think as time goes on, though, we'll see less and less of them.

JQ377
05-05-2013, 07:37 AM
I don't think obsolete is the right word. Reading on a computer/tablet is great for getting lots of stuff quick but (at least to me) it's just not the same.

J.S.F.
05-12-2013, 10:01 AM
While I've been fortunate enough to have been published in e-book form (yay, pat myself on the back a little) I've always wanted to be published in book form. Much as I've embraced the new cybertech stuff floating around, there's nothing like holding a new book in your hands, smelling the ink and the paper, knowing that it's real in the sense of touching it. You can't touch cyberspace.

I don't think books will ever disappear entirely, but there might be a turndown somewhere along the way as digital gains more and more exposure and usage in certain countries.

Komnena
06-06-2013, 04:09 PM
True, you can't touch cyberspace. But neither does cyberspace take up a lot of space in the car. On long trips I've found digital a huge help. I can take digital copies without risking my physical copies. For me at least, it is not either/or.. My digital collection complements my physical one.

Medievalist
06-08-2013, 03:11 AM
FWIW, I put "books becoming obsolete" in the same catagory as "librarys becoming obsolete."

First of all, where on a computer (or iPad) are you going to scribble your "notes" as you're reading?

Either in the margin or by using a digital stickie note. I've been doing this on ebooks since 1992.

Komnena
06-08-2013, 06:15 AM
Or in a WordPerfect file like I do for physical books.

Chase
06-08-2013, 11:13 PM
To both camps naysaying paper books are obsolete and electronic books are but a fad, I hope there's room in the future for both.

Especially here in the Pacific northwest, trees are a renewable resource, so keep on reading and writing on paper (if you can get the hang of it from the tech help below).

On the other hand, e-mail is the best-ever communication tool for the deaf, and I much prefer on-screen editing. The switch to e-books will be more gentle for me than the hilarious switch from scrolls to bound books ("Norwegian Medieval Tech Support" has been featured here at AW a few times, but it's still funny--subtitles are in Norse and English):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQOf20Xrd1o

Medievalist
06-08-2013, 11:39 PM
To both camps naysaying paper books are obsolete and electronic books are but a fad, I hope there's room in the future for both.

Me too. One of the things I've loved about the ease of buying recycled paper for book printing is that it's low acid paper.

So old people like me who mourn the Penguin classics with all our notes that's we've used for teaching for mumble-mumble years falling apart into brittle shards have less of that even with mass produced paper backs.

The printed codex book is a technologica marvel. It's portable. It requires no external energy for use. And with even a little care, a modern low-acid paperback can last quite a long time.

But I love the fact that I have a digital facsimile of the Book of Kells, and Luttrell Psalter (http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/sacredtexts/ttpbooks.html) on my iPad.

rhymegirl
06-09-2013, 02:31 AM
It's funny whenever I ask my sister what page she's on in whatever book she's reading she'll say something like, "I don't know. I'm at 27 percent." (when reading on her Kindle)

Sigh. I always know exactly what page I'm on in my paperbacks or hardcovers.

Medievalist
06-09-2013, 04:05 AM
iPads don't "dog-ear" without breaking (wink,wink)!

Actually, they do. Back in the early 1990s the basic feature set and User Interface for ebooks was developed, and it hasn't really changed much.

You can with pretty much any ebook in any app or device expect:

search
highlight
annotate via a sticky note
doggear a page corner with a note
Enlarge type

We also allowed readers to:
Select a passage to quote and it included an automatic citation
Annotate in the margins
Export all highlighted text, annotations with a citation to a .rtf file or as a file to be imported into a copy of the same book.

Roxxsmom
06-10-2013, 10:57 AM
It's funny whenever I ask my sister what page she's on in whatever book she's reading she'll say something like, "I don't know. I'm at 27 percent." (when reading on her Kindle)

Sigh. I always know exactly what page I'm on in my paperbacks or hardcovers.

Interesting. I have a nook reader, and it gives page numbers, but I don't think they always (or usually) correlate in any way with the actual pagination of the paper book. I have one e-book where each page I turn (in the default font size) advances the page count by one (and occasionally skips a page number). Another e-book I read recently is the opposite. I have to turn 3 or more virtual pages to get the count to advance by one. And some of my e-books have stated electronic page counts that are similar to the paper page count of the paperback, while others are very different.

I wish the things had a way to access word counts for the book as a whole, but in nook at least, there doesn't seem to be a way to do this. As a writer, I am always interested in the actual word counts of books I'm reading, and it's hard to get any real sense of it (even estimate) with an e-book.

I like my nook reader. It's convenient to be able to get the books immediately. But sometimes I want to read a real book still, so I hope paper doesn't disappear any time soon. I always had that silly wantabee writer fantasy of seeing a book I wrote displayed in a book store or library someday, or of being in a waiting room somewhere and seeing someone reading a battered and much loved paperback with my name on it. Obviously e-books don't really allow for this.

In fact e-books keep your reading preferences pretty secret unless someone looks over your shoulder or knows you well enough to ask what you're reading. It used to amuse me to occasionally be on a bus or plane and see a mature looking man or woman in a business suit with a pulpy paperback (like the adventures of Conan) in hand. Gave me faith in humanity, it did.

mccardey
06-10-2013, 11:00 AM
Yep, just call me an 'old fashioned' curmudgeon.

Suddenly, I miss JAR :(

ETA: (and back on topic) Can I just mention here, that I never appreciated my kindle until this weekend when I was packing up my books to move house. I don't love my kindle, and it doesn't love me: but it doesn't weigh much. So, yanno - there's that.

Komnena
06-10-2013, 04:15 PM
Neither do physical books love you. I have accumulated far too many of them and now I have the task of sorting them.

Medievalist
06-10-2013, 10:03 PM
Yep, just call me an 'old fashioned' curmudgeon. I prefer typing with ALL fingers to two-handed "thumbing" a screen. And, I actually still have (somewhere) an old-fashioned, mechanical slinging-arm, typewriter (as backup) should this computer fail and I need to write a REAL letter to someone.

I get that. I note I really am a medievalist, with particular expertise in paleography/codicology/history of the book.

I love the codex book as an artifact. I especially love beautifully made books using quality paper, typesetting and binding.

I also note that I can't read most of 'em these days because my eyesight is fading rapidly.

So I don't think it's an either-or thing. Nor do I think paperback-or-hardcover is an either-or thing. I'd like to see the best options offered for all books and all readers.

Komnena
06-12-2013, 07:11 PM
I too would like to see everyone get the best option for them. I love picking up copies of my favorite books and turning to my favorite scenes in them. But I also find that I can no longer read small print. Digital is easier on my eyes than most paperbacks.

Demian
06-13-2013, 05:45 AM
Forgive me if someone's covered this: I like paper books and think they'll always have their place in our society due to two things, hammock-camping in the wet season and bathtub reading. Won't do either of those with my Kindle (at least not after I ruined the last two).

Demian
06-13-2013, 05:56 AM
I have just spurted many liquids on my monitor. :)

thothguard51
06-13-2013, 06:27 AM
Are Books Becoming Obsolete?

As reported by the AAP in the Publishers Lunch Newsletter...

***

The AAP reported StatShot monthly sales statistics for January. Total trade sales of $455.7 million were virtually flat compared to the same month a year ago (down just $3.2 million), though adult sales of $355.4 million were up 8.4 percent from the same point last year thanks to gains in trade paperbacks (up 10.6 percent) and hardcovers (up 8.3 percent).

Adult ebook sales of $110.1 million were up only 10.1 percent compared to January 2012, but were just $7 million off the month's reported trade paperback sales, now comprising the second-largest segment for adult books. The small ebook increase also confirms there was a much smaller post-holiday boost in digital sales as compared to the same time a year ago.

Children's/YA sales suffered a downturn, however. Sales of $100.3 million represented a 23.6 percent decline from the same period a year ago, largely due to a big drop in hardcover sales (down 29.3 percent to $44.7 million.) And ebook sales also declined a significant 36 percent in January, at $14.4 million, continuing to reflect the difference between rising Hunger Games sales in late 2011 and declining sales in the second part of 2012.

In all, ebooks comprised 27.3 percent of sales in January, as they rose less than $2 million compared to December.

***
Everyone thought trade publishing was dead with the explosion of e-books and the decline of Barnes and Noble, not to mention the downward spiral of the economy. Based on the this report and others that have come out for 2012, I don't think print books are going anywhere anytime soon...

K.B. Parker
06-13-2013, 06:36 AM
I'm practically glued to my electronics for everything else, but nothing beats holding a book in my hands. I don't like reading novels on computers, nooks, crannies, or Ipads. I don't know if I could ever adjust to reading them electronically. I tried reading 'Game Change' on my computer and gave up half way through and went out and bought a copy.

I just see a book as a book and I wish technology would just leave this one thing alone.

Silent Assassin
06-22-2013, 06:42 PM
No, it's not obsolete. Books I think are nice because you can't run out of batteries. You also can't break a book as easily. You also can lend books. You also can discover books easier. It also feels more significant to have a book. It also doesn't lend itself up to possible computer failure. You also can wrap a book as a gift. Also a Dr. Seuss book is better when a kid can hold it and feel it. Also you can't sell an E-Book. You also can't use E-Books as coasters.

There you go.

coolcat500_07
06-22-2013, 10:37 PM
I used to be a hard copy book snob. Then I discovered Kindle, that joyous device that allows me to access and own the nation's library with one click. The market is changing for reading now, so that more people are reading digitally, but there is still a place for type-written pages. I enjoy convenience, but there is nothing like the smell and feel of pages in my hand. I can't imagine not owning Harry Potter in hardback for example.

BeatrixKiddo
06-28-2013, 12:18 AM
I still like actual books and the fact that the last major chain Barnes & Nobles might be closing, has me quite depressed. I buy books online too, but I still like to wander around a bookstore.

I never thought I'd see the "death" of most bookstores in my lifetime.

Nonfic
06-29-2013, 08:36 PM
Barnes and Noble stock recently fell by 17%, so they may be going the way of Borders. So I would agree with Beatrix.

I used to buy a lot of books, but now I just read online, or even on the kindle app on my phone. Why go all the way to the bookstore or wait for delivery when I can download an ebook almost instantaneously.

In the long term physical books will become obsolete, although of course there will still be a market for them just like you can still go to a blockbuster.

LOG
07-04-2013, 08:22 AM
I hope to see the advent of print-on-demand books, especially with the rise of 3D printing.
As far as browsing goes, an idea that occurred to me would be to create virtual libraries. Could initially just be for monitors and the like, but they could eventually expand for things like the Oculus Rift.

fivetoesten
07-04-2013, 06:36 PM
I hope to see the advent of print-on-demand books, especially with the rise of 3D printing.
As far as browsing goes, an idea that occurred to me would be to create virtual libraries. Could initially just be for monitors and the like, but they could eventually expand for things like the Oculus Rift.

Wow, never heard of Oculus Rift. Looks like kind of an obnoxious version of Google Glass. There are already virtual libraries. There is the open library, and, if it qualifies, overdrive.com.

I don't know how 3D printing would help with POD, except for maybe printing a cover. There is already the espresso machine (http://www.geek.com/gadgets/the-espresso-book-machine-brings-the-gutenberg-press-to-the-small-brick-and-mortar-757852/), which has been around for a while.

LOG
07-04-2013, 10:00 PM
Wow, never heard of Oculus Rift. Looks like kind of an obnoxious version of Google Glass.
The two aren't really related.


There are already virtual libraries. There is the open library, and, if it qualifies, overdrive.com.Not what I meant. Those are digital libraries.
Imagine a library, set with your desired preferences, and then generated so you can browse books visually--like at a physical library. I suppose G Glass could do something like that, but with the Oculus Rift and additional equipment, you could literally walk around a virtual library. Of course, that assumes "the charm of the browsing experience" is worth going to such lengths for. I wouldn't mind it. The problem with most searches for books is that it's so limited in what you can take in from it, and you generally only find what you're looking for. By browsing I can find stuff I didn't even know I wanted to read.



I don't know how 3D printing would help with POD, except for maybe printing a cover. There is already the espresso machine (http://www.geek.com/gadgets/the-espresso-book-machine-brings-the-gutenberg-press-to-the-small-brick-and-mortar-757852/), which has been around for a while.I meant that since 3D printing is becoming more popular, things like POD for books, and maybe even other mediums, will become more readily available at the personal level. Stuff like the Espresso still requires you to go to the dealer.

benbradley
07-04-2013, 10:43 PM
The two aren't really related.

Not what I meant. Those are digital libraries.
Imagine a library, set with your desired preferences, and then generated so you can browse books visually--like at a physical library. I suppose G Glass could do something like that, but with the Oculus Rift and additional equipment, you could literally walk around a virtual library. Of course, that assumes "the charm of the browsing experience" is worth going to such lengths for. I wouldn't mind it. The problem with most searches for books is that it's so limited in what you can take in from it, and you generally only find what you're looking for. By browsing I can find stuff I didn't even know I wanted to read.
Oh, now I see what you mean by "virtual library" - if you see other titles "shelved" next to the book you're looking for, you can find other interesting books you didn't know existed. This could be easily added to current computerized catalog systems

I remember both card catalogs and microfilm catalog machines, and THEY had the books listed in order. ISTR microfilm had two sections, one with titles listed alphabetically, and the other sorted by call number. Computer catalogs certainly COULD do this, though I haven't seen any that do.

I've noticed that online dictionaries have a similar "problem" - they don't show the words immediately before and after the word you're looking up, so there's no way to browse the page and find and learn new words the way you can in a printed dictionary.

I meant that since 3D printing is becoming more popular, things like POD for books, and maybe even other mediums, will become more readily available at the personal level. Stuff like the Espresso still requires you to go to the dealer.
This isn't directly related to 3d printers, but yes, progress in robotics-related fields is sure to drop the cost of book binding machines for POD, though I think they'll still be high cost for a while. Meanwhile, copy shops and office supply stores will have such POD machines and other bookbinding capabilities.

ianuschristius
11-12-2013, 11:45 PM
Even do I'm one of those writters that publishes books in a e-format, I still like to read book in it's old fashioned way, sitting in the chair and browse the book. One of the reasons why I like to read text books better than e-books is that I have a problem with reading digital letters on the computer screen, it affects my vision, which is already very bad. Even If I download some e-book or pages from the net, I always print it on the paper and read. The reason why I publish in e-format because it's free, and I publish it in the way I want it to look like.

Megan_Now
11-17-2013, 05:58 PM
I refuse to read digital books. And it hurts my eyes to stare at the screen for hours.

It isn't the same, to be honest. And I feel serious readers will also usually choose real paper books to e-books.

If any of my writings ever get published I don't know if I will want it to be in digital format.

Old Hack
11-17-2013, 10:11 PM
it hurts my eyes to stare at the screen for hours.

Me too.


It isn't the same, to be honest. And I feel serious readers will also usually choose real paper books to e-books.

I don't care how serious my readers are, so long as they buy my books. If that means they buy digital editions, I'm fine with that.


If any of my writings ever get published I don't know if I will want it to be in digital format.

As not everyone shares your preference for print editions, not allowing your books to be sold in digital editions would mean leaving money unearned. Do you really think this is wise?

Medievalist
11-17-2013, 10:42 PM
The problem with most searches for books is that it's so limited in what you can take in from it, and you generally only find what you're looking for. By browsing I can find stuff I didn't even know I wanted to read.

Cataloging librarians know this; that's why most library digital catalogs have an option to display a "shelf list"; that is the books shelved in a range, mimicking their placement on a shelf.

Lisagh
11-18-2013, 12:23 AM
The bookstore where I live is always packed. More so at Christmas. I hope books aren't becoming obsolete, because I still love to pick them up for a read and smell the new paper inside.

buz
11-18-2013, 12:48 AM
I refuse to read digital books. And it hurts my eyes to stare at the screen for hours.

It isn't the same, to be honest.

That's fair enough, but...


And I feel serious readers will also usually choose real paper books to e-books.

What is a serious reader? What is a NOT-serious reader? A reader is someone who reads; I'm not sure that seriousness should factor in.

Voracious readers might choose e-books because you can then schlep twenty books around with you in a nice handy-dandy e-reader instead of trying to fit them all in your suitcase. Which never works. Books take up a lot of space. ;)

(And then I get to my hotel room and read all six of my books in like three days and I'm all DAMMIT I wish I had room to take more...)


If any of my writings ever get published I don't know if I will want it to be in digital format.

So you like not selling books then? :D

Megan_Now
11-18-2013, 03:17 PM
So you like not selling books then? :D

Yes I know, the only way a book can sell is if it is an e-book. Right? :rolleyes:

Megan_Now
11-18-2013, 03:27 PM
What is a serious reader? What is a NOT-serious reader? A reader is someone who reads; I'm not sure that seriousness should factor in.


I am a serious reader and I'll never, ever buy e-books. Ever. I'll give up reading before I purchase an e-book. I know a lot of people who also will never read an e-book either.

I love the the feel/smell of a good old real book. Something e-books can never give a reader. Also traveling with books is not my concern considering most people who will be getting my books are kids....not adults.

Also, until they find a way to prevent people from being able to copy an e-book I am more worried of people trying screw me out of sales by copying a digital version of my book and posting it, for free, online.

usuallycountingbats
11-18-2013, 04:32 PM
I refuse to read digital books. And it hurts my eyes to stare at the screen for hours.

It isn't the same, to be honest. And I feel serious readers will also usually choose real paper books to e-books.

If any of my writings ever get published I don't know if I will want it to be in digital format.

I have owned my Kindle for about 3 years now. In that time I have very unseriously read over 200 books on it. I must have spent hundreds of pounds on ebooks. I hate to think what I could have achieved if only I'd been a serious reader! Must.Try.Harder.

I actually very very rarely buy actual books now. My exceptions are autobiographies, because I like the pictures in hard format. I have recently bought 2 books because I couldn't get them as ebooks. It took me well over a year to make that decision. In contrast, I have bought 4 or 5 ebooks in the past week. Part of that is because I read a lot away from home, and not having to lug books/being able to buy instantly is a real draw for me (I'm often in a field, miles from a loo let alone a bookshop!). The other consideration is there are over 1000 books in my house. I am running out of space.

I'd suggest you might be a) alienating your readership and b) (and in my opinion more importantly) be doing yourself out of some cash by taking that attitude to ebooks.

In fact I have directly contributed to writers' income more since I got the kindle than I ever did whilst amassing my book collection, back when I was a serious reader. Why? Because 95% of my proper books came either from friends who passed them on to me or from the Oxfam/other charity bookshops, where I could pick up even the latest bestseller for a couple of quid, and discover new authors with minimal expenditure. The authors saw precisely zero in royalties from that, got exactly no increase in sales figures, and had absolutely no way to target me with their marketing. They didn't even know I existed as a reader.

Old Hack
11-18-2013, 04:50 PM
Yes I know, the only way a book can sell is if it is an e-book. Right? :rolleyes:

That's not what was implied.


I am a serious reader and I'll never, ever buy e-books. Ever. I'll give up reading before I purchase an e-book. I know a lot of people who also will never read an e-book either.

I know a lot of people who I'd count as serious readers who much prefer reading digital editions, for all sorts of reasons: disability is one of them.

I find it extraordinary that you'd prefer to avoid making your book available to them because they like a format you're not keen on.

And I find it disconcerting that you think it's appropriate to be so disrespectful of others, just because they aren't averse to reading digital editions. Implying that people can't be "serious readers" if they don't share your preferences seems extraordinarily dismissive, and verging on rude.


I love the the feel/smell of a good old real book. Something e-books can never give a reader. Also traveling with books is not my concern considering most people who will be getting my books are kids....not adults.

My children read more digital books than print books now. You're turning your back on a big portion of the market.


Also, until they find a way to prevent people from being able to copy an e-book I am more worried of people trying screw me out of sales by copying a digital version of my book and posting it, for free, online.

Piracy is a big problem. But most writers whose books are good still manage to sell them in good quantity even when pirate editions exist.

Once!
11-18-2013, 05:05 PM
Didn't we have this same discussion a few years ago about typewriters versus those new fangled word processors? I seem to recall people saying that they hated word processors for all manner of reasons. They didn't like the screens, they were worried about losing their work, it was a fad which wouldn't catch on, there was something more personal about a typewriter which a computer could never match.

It was the same when digital cameras started to become available. I'll never give up my 35 mm SLR because ...

Or when Apple introduced a computer in the form of a tablet. It will never catch on because ...

Or when those motorcar thingies started to frighten the horses at the turn of 20th century ...

Or before that when steam engines on railway tracks started to put canals out of business ...

Who would want a mobile phone?

Heck, we could even go back to John Henry competing against a steam driving machine ...

What I do know is this. The manager at my local newsagent/ bookstore recently told me that every year she was reducing the number of shelves for novels because fewer were being sold in paper. By contrast, she was increasing the amount of shelf-space for picture books and newspapers in Polish.

I'm bilingual. I can read paper or e-book with an open mind. I'm starting to prefer the latter (but preferably Kindle over I-pad).

benbradley
11-19-2013, 01:20 AM
I am a serious reader and I'll never, ever buy e-books. Ever. I'll give up reading before I purchase an e-book. I know a lot of people who also will never read an e-book either.

I love the the feel/smell of a good old real book. Something e-books can never give a reader. Also traveling with books is not my concern considering most people who will be getting my books are kids....not adults.

Also, until they find a way to prevent people from being able to copy an e-book I am more worried of people trying screw me out of sales by copying a digital version of my book and posting it, for free, online.
I've just got a business idea, and I'm wondering how much of a market there is for this.

It appears that when only e-editions are available, some people will stop reading. However, surely I could buy the right to make a printed copy of an e-book, print it on an Espresso or similar POD machine, and sell the physical book to someone who would otherwise never read it.

Didn't we have this same discussion a few years ago about typewriters versus those new fangled word processors? I seem to recall people saying that they hated word processors for all manner of reasons. They didn't like the screens, they were worried about losing their work, it was a fad which wouldn't catch on, there was something more personal about a typewriter which a computer could never match.
That sounds familiar, but wasn't this not years but DECADES ago? I recall Isaac Asimov writing an editorial about finally getting the hang of word processing software circa 1980, and of course Jerry Pournelle wrote in his Byte column "Chaos Manor" about the equipment he used in excruciating detail.


It was the same when digital cameras started to become available. I'll never give up my 35 mm SLR because ...
Some people still haven't. I actually have a Nikkormat lying around somewhere...

Or when Apple introduced a computer in the form of a tablet. It will never catch on because ...... it was named after a feminine hygiene product!

Or when those motorcar thingies started to frighten the horses at the turn of 20th century ...
Did the buggy whip manufacturer employees get unemployment compensation?

Who would want a mobile phone?Who would WRITE A NOVEL on a mobile phone? I saw a guy doing just that on his iphone. I wonder if he also played kalimba.

Heck, we could even go back to John Henry competing against a steam driving machine ...
How about priests with quills compared to Gutenberg's press? I wonder if he's spinning in his grave, hearing that his press is finally becoming obsolete.

Medievalist
11-19-2013, 01:23 AM
I've just got a business idea, and I'm wondering how much of a market there is for this.

It appears that when only e-editions are available, some people will stop reading. However, surely I could buy the right to make a printed copy of an e-book, print it on an Espresso or similar POD machine, and sell the physical book to someone who would otherwise never read it

Publishers are already there; you can right now print out POD printed books of OP or digital only books from several publishers at businesses with an Espresso Book Machine.

I suspect we'll see more signing up.

dill16
11-22-2013, 09:08 PM
As someone who works in Interlibrary Loan, I can tell you that paper books are going nowhere. One of our biggest hurdles is making sure that we are following copyright restrictions. You can't borrow digital books from other academic universities just yet.

I work for a huge university with several, semi-independent branches. Students come in all of the time complaining, "But we own it and such-and-such-branch!" Yes, two out of the nine regional campuses may have digital access to this publication, but the main university does not. We're working on it, but switching to digital sharing is expensive and time consuming.



I refuse to read digital books. And it hurts my eyes to stare at the screen for hours.



I have the opposite problem. I have to make the fonts bigger so that I can read in bed without my glasses/contacts on and the light turned up. I call it reading granny style.

Blaine
12-03-2013, 02:54 AM
Back to the original post.

I’m a baby boomer that grew up long before the person computer and electronic age. I have always loved books, but I have moved up to the electronic age and a Nook, I even get many of my magazines via the Nook. It is just so convenient because I travel a lot. I can carry a large library of books with me wherever I go. Also with age comes diminished eyesight and the ability to change font size is a real plus for me. I do however spend a great deal of time in Barnes & Nobel, one of their managers told me that the Nook has helped keep them afloat.
What amazes me today is one can store a complete law library in a Laptop computer with room left over, same with the medical libraries. What technology has done for research is just amazing, what once took days to research can now be done in hours.

shadowwalker
12-03-2013, 09:19 AM
I hope I'm not the only one who saw this:

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/nov/25/young-adult-readers-prefer-printed-ebooks

I'd say print books are pretty safe for a while. :)

StefR
12-19-2013, 07:44 AM
Books are like lovers, sure there are a lot of alternatives available for emergencies, but you really want the real thing don't you??

RensPen
12-20-2013, 05:49 AM
I guess the answer could be yes-the sale of hardcopy books is declining due to the ease and comfort of simply buying one online from any wifi capable device, but at the same time I really hope not! There is nothing I love more than meandering through local book stores, sitting in a quiet corner to read for a few moments, and being able to pass on a great book to a friend or loved one.

Old Hack
12-20-2013, 11:09 AM
the sale of hardcopy books is declining due to the ease and comfort of simply buying one online from any wifi capable device

I'm not sure that sales of print editions are declining in any significant way.

And if they are, then how can you be sure they're declining "due to the ease and comfort of simply buying one online from any wifi capable device"? (I assume you mean digital editions.)

DeadCities
12-20-2013, 11:37 AM
I can't comment on wether books are becoming obsolete, is there any statistical data to suggest this? I'm far too lazy to look it up myself, nor do I care enough. I love *real* books, e-books have zero appeal to me, though some of my friends have e-readers and they look like nifty gadgets, especially for reading on the go like on the bus or something. I hope books never die, though it does seem like our society is becoming less intelligent as a whole, and most people don't have the time or inclination to read between internet and tv. The used bookstore near my apartment is like my Shangrilah, if it closed I would become seriously depressed, though it does seem to be doing well (though I think thats mostly due to their amped-up dvd section, which is what I see most customers browsing when I'm in there).

Old Hack
12-20-2013, 05:30 PM
I can't comment on wether books are becoming obsolete, is there any statistical data to suggest this? I'm far too lazy to look it up myself, nor do I care enough.

If you don't care enough to find out for yourself, why should anyone else find out for you?


it does seem like our society is becoming less intelligent as a whole, and most people don't have the time or inclination to read between internet and tv.

Frequent readers make up only a small percentage of the population as a whole: I remember reading some time ago that less than 30% of the UK's population had ever been inside a bookshop.

But this doesn't suggest to me that "our society is becoming less intelligent as a whole", and I find that claim to be both patronising and offensive. What does it say about our children, and all the hard work that they put in every day?

Medievalist
12-20-2013, 08:48 PM
I can't comment on wether books are becoming obsolete

Ewe'll never know if you don't read threads before posting, she said sheepishly.

DeadCities
12-21-2013, 10:44 AM
Ewe'll never know if you don't read threads before posting, she said sheepishly.

I work, go to school, and write for two hours a day, I don't have time to go through every single post on a thread before I respond.

DeadCities
12-21-2013, 10:48 AM
If you don't care enough to find out for yourself, why should anyone else find out for you?



Frequent readers make up only a small percentage of the population as a whole: I remember reading some time ago that less than 30% of the UK's population had ever been inside a bookshop.

But this doesn't suggest to me that "our society is becoming less intelligent as a whole", and I find that claim to be both patronising and offensive. What does it say about our children, and all the hard work that they put in every day?

If someone asks "are books becoming obsolete?" And someone answers, I expect them to have some data backing up their point. And lol that you posted a statistic right after saying "why should anyone do it for you?"


But this doesn't suggest to me that "our society is becoming less intelligent as a whole", and I find that claim to be both patronising and offensive. What does it say about our children, and all the hard work that they put in every day?

In the immortal words of Nigel Powers "Got an issue? Here's a tissue." I don't see what was so offensive about what I said. Maybe "less intelligent" is too strong, what I meant it most people prefer to sit around and watch an episode of pawn stars than read a novel. To me this is a stupid way to waste your time but then again here I am arguing over meaningless issues with a stranger over the internet.

gingerwoman
12-21-2013, 11:01 AM
I'm ordering through Amazon (yes, I do, sorry) or Literary Guild when they have sales.

.
Yes sorry if I want print I order through Amazon too (ironically) because when I tried a book depository here in New Zealand.
The book took longer to get to me than it takes Amazon to send from the USA. It took ridiculously too long, and the last time I tried to order a book from a store's system the person behind the counter fiddled around and couldn't find it on their system. Like it or not Amazon has been reliable for print books every time. Even when they didn't turn up, which might have been something to do with the post or people stealing from the post they replaced the missing books. I can just rely on them to get whatever I want. I don't have any book stores with a really wide range of books near me. I used to go to Borders but they died.

Old Hack
12-21-2013, 12:49 PM
I work, go to school, and write for two hours a day, I don't have time to go through every single post on a thread before I respond.

I work, look after my children, look after my home, project-manage a large renovation job, spend a ridiculous amount of time reading, and still take the time to read threads before I post in them.

It's a matter of courtesy, which we're pretty keen on at AW.

Also, you might like to re-read Medievalist's comment. I think you missed her joke.


If someone asks "are books becoming obsolete?" And someone answers, I expect them to have some data backing up their point. And lol that you posted a statistic right after saying "why should anyone do it for you?"

Lol indeed.

You're very good at missing the point.

But that has nothing to do with you telling us you're too lazy to look things up for yourself then asking us to do that work for you.


In the immortal words of Nigel Powers "Got an issue? Here's a tissue."

In the immortal words of Mac in the Newbie Guide (which I strongly suggest you read), we have one rule here: respect your fellow writer. If you don't understand what that entails it can be distilled down to this: don't be a jerk.

You're breaking our one rule.

Read the Newbie Guide before you post here again. There's a link to it at the top of the page.

DeadCities
12-21-2013, 12:59 PM
I work, look after my children, look after my home, project-manage a large renovation job, spend a ridiculous amount of time reading, and still take the time to read threads before I post in them.

It's a matter of courtesy, which we're pretty keen on at AW.

Also, you might like to re-read Medievalist's comment. I think you missed her joke.



Lol indeed.

You're very good at missing the point.

But that has nothing to do with you telling us you're too lazy to look things up for yourself then asking us to do that work for you.



In the immortal words of Mac in the Newbie Guide (which I strongly suggest you read), we have one rule here: respect your fellow writer. If you don't understand what that entails it can be distilled down to this: don't be a jerk.

You're breaking our one rule.

Read the Newbie Guide before you post here again. There's a link to it at the top of the page.

I apologize if you thought I was being a jerk, I was always bad at inferring the tone of what I try to say through messaging. I wasn't asking people to do research for me, I MEANT that if anyone had relevant info I would be interested in it. You ignored everything else I had to say contributing to the conversation and accused me of being offensive (for example, if instead, you had said "I disagree, why do you think people are less intelligent? I could have given you a thought out answer. However nope, I was "patronizing" and "offensive" I like to think of myself as a nice guy, it is not my intention to be patronizing, thus if that comment had been less provocative I would have expounded on what I meant.) , so I guess I got my back up. I suppose then, that I will not be posting very much since that is too much of a time commitment that I could be spending writing! Sorry for the misunderstanding. (is it possible to delete these? I feel bad for hijacking this thread.)

Ol' Fashioned Girl
12-21-2013, 07:05 PM
Actually, we don't delete messages on AW - unless they're spam - we're writers; and we own our words - as I've learned the hard way, sometimes. Picking up tone is often difficult, especially over the wild-n-woolly 'net, that's why it's so important to write what you mean and mean what you write.

You'll get the lay of the land, DeadCities. Hang in there; read the Newbies Guide OldHack referred you to; visit the rooms and threads that interest you. You'll become an ol' hand around here in no time. AW's folks are some of the best folks in the world - and unsurpassed when it comes to helping writers do everything from knit a sweater to cook a kick-ass souffle. We even, occasionally, help out with things like writing, crafting the perfect query letter, and arguing about commas and grammar. Welcome to AW.

Now... carry on. ;)

HarvesterOfSorrow
12-21-2013, 09:25 PM
It's all good, Taylor. All a misundersanding. A sure thing to happen on the interwebs :Thumbs:

:welcome:

Creative Ghost
12-22-2013, 12:25 AM
I never thought I'd read an e-book. Then I got a Samsung Note tablet. And--wow! Now, I can't imagine reading a book any other way.

One of the annoyances I hated when reading a paper book was that at a certain point in my life I began needing to use reading glasses to read. I've never needed glasses in my life (and my non-reading vision is exemplary.) Reading on my tablet solved that.

To be honest, having a tablet or e-reader is just so convenient that I have no desire to read a paper book again. All day now, I can read research, articles, web posts and blogs and books - all on one handy convenient device that changes the font size and the lighting to suit my particular situation.

I can read them all in the car, in my bed, on the couch, in the bathroom, at the counter, at the dinner table, on a plane, on a train or bus - all while scouring the web, answering emails, making notes and hell - even writing.

All without the awkwardness that comes with maneuvering a hardcover or the sore thumb that comes with holding open the pages of a paperback. Not to mention the volume and weight of carrying around all those books and magazines.

As for bookstores, it was in the mid 2000's that I noticed that they were already disappearing from a lot of malls. A very, very small percentage of youth today are interested in reading, and the percentage declines as they get older and have less leisure time.

My family is filled with intelligent, savvy people - yet hardly any of them read books. Not because they're stupid, but because they're just too busy with the many parts of life - working, raising kids, trying to have family time, etc.

Anyway, I read somewhere recently that the sales of e-books have evened out and paper books are still alive and well.

Noniej
12-22-2013, 09:34 AM
Will ye all stop with the 'serious reader' thing? I don't know if you mean to tell me I'm stupid for reading ebooks but that's the inference I'm taking.

Anyway, I used to think I wouldn't buy an eReader - until I won a gift card and did just that. I love it - I read much more than I used to because I can increase the text size and it's so much easier on my eyes :-) It's backlit so I can read away to my heart's content while hubby is snoring away beside me. Plus - books are cheaper, and I'm only a click away from my favourite authors.

Honestly, for anyone who thinks they're past it or above it or whatever, just try it - I think you'll be surprised. Merry Christmas.

amaliegreen
12-22-2013, 10:44 AM
In the past seven years, I have moved twelve times (soon to be thirteen). I've lived in different parts of four states and two countries. Many of these moves have been via airplane, which required whittling down my possessions to the bare minimum. I'm single and have proven inept at finding an actual career thus far, so I've spent the first half of my twenties traveling and taking temporary jobs. Periodically, I return to my childhood home before heading out again. I'm here now until my next move (to a new job) at the beginning of March.

Here, where I grew up, I have five plastic tubs full of books. I wouldn't give them up for anything, and I always take a few favorites with me, but my Kindle finally makes it possible to move frequently without reducing my reading options. I'm the kind of reader who can finish four average-length novels on one long flight. I read hundreds of books every year. My Kindle makes that possible.

I respect everyone else's right to feel otherwise--it's entirely subjective--but I love e-books and print books equally. I hope they can co-exist and thrive. I don't think print books are obsolete, nor that they are likely to be anytime soon.

DGamelan
12-22-2013, 12:15 PM
Will ye all stop with the 'serious reader' thing? I don't know if you mean to tell me I'm stupid for reading ebooks but that's the inference I'm taking.

I second this. I read ebooks, and am a serious reader, but I don't have the same easy access to books as others.

I buy ebooks because the ones I'm interested in are cheaper, more widely available, and make it much easier to read more often. What I could have spent on a printed book, I could instead get two or more ebooks. That is a huge matter to me, as I have neither funds nor nearby bookstores.

I often rely on the growing availability of ebooks to finally have access to the more analytic and academic books I could not otherwise hope to get hold of. As much as said books may help me with my current writing project, poverty makes it impossible to plonk down $100+ every time I want one.

Not to mention that many sf/f books on my wishlist have ebook editions that are 1/3 of the price of their print versions.

This is not to say that I am against print books. I do try to purchase physical copies when I desperately want to show support for the author, but life circumstances make it difficult to obtain things others take for granted.

Phoebs
12-29-2013, 06:24 AM
I don't think books are dead yet. It's true... a lot of people like to read books on electronic devices, but I also know so many people who claim that nothing beats the experience of reading an actual book.

I've never read an e-book, or read on a kindle or iPad so I can't compare. But I love the feel of a book, and I love being able to annotate them with my own illegible notes.

I don't think that will ever go out of style completely.

Gurdyman
12-29-2013, 10:48 PM
I have searched the thread and nobody has mentioned the October issue of the Scientific American. There is an article about why the brain prefers paper over electronics. Results are preliminary, but studies seem to indicate that the brain remembers more information from paper books because it can better "map" the locations of facts or ideas inside a physical stack of paper.

I don't buy ebooks but I do download them from the library. I dislike reading them, even on my notebook and handheld computers. I think they are just a pain in the neck. I only read them this way because the library doesn't have the paper versions.

DKRisDKR
01-02-2014, 10:20 PM
I find an e-reader most valuable for obtaining/reading out of print books.
Recently, for example, I was able to do research on the Boer Wars (both of them) by reading (then current) publications that would otherwise be unavailable to me. The books and peridocials were obtained at no cost via the Web. Amazing.

Alaska is so isolated from many research resources that e-books present a viable means to do that research.

Paper books are nice, if you can find them or if they even still exist...

E-books also present an excellent tool and a way to read older works at low to no cost - opening reading to many on a tight budget.

RensPen
01-11-2014, 01:35 AM
I'm not sure that sales of print editions are declining in any significant way.

And if they are, then how can you be sure they're declining "due to the ease and comfort of simply buying one online from any wifi capable device"? (I assume you mean digital editions.)

Book stores in general have been "going under" for years now, i.e. borders book store, and those that aren't completely bankrupt are heading that way. Everything: book stores, video companies, and now even schools. Think of how many online classes there are available now, from grade school on up. DVD players are discontinued because you can download your favorite movies( to rent or own) straight from iTunes. I'm not saying I know exactly what's happening around the nation but it seems obvious enough(to the point of assumption) that this is the way life is heading.

PhoenixFlames
02-02-2014, 02:53 AM
That would be sad if bookstores became obsolete.

VioletInstincts
02-16-2014, 07:46 AM
That would be sad if bookstores became obsolete.

I agree! But I love my Kindle. Sometimes, I just need a paper book. I usually need them when it is a book I'm not reading for pleasure, but reading so it can help me. Examples: how to, family tree and game guides.

My hubby asked me if I wanted a Kindle a few years back. I half way smiled at him thinking he meant well. Then he started talking about how many books I could keep on one.

I went ahead and got it. After having my Kindle for about three weeks, I would never want to be without one. I would carry two books around with me. The one I'm reading and the one I will start next. Sometimes I was in places where the book covers would not be good to show around...ahem pulled out my Kindle. I drive a distance to work and want something interesting to pass the time. I pull out my Kindle and plug it up to my vehicle and let it read to me.

So from a reader's stand point, it is more convenient to have the majority of my books on a Kindle. For the other 10% of my books, it is imperative that they are in physical form.

T-Willard
02-19-2014, 08:02 PM
I think that eBooks are actually going to bring up the amount of people who read for entertainment.

Books have been getting more and more expensive, ($8.99 for a freakin' paperback? Why don't you just rob me?) and many are getting thinner and thinner. They involve a significant amount of investment as far as time and effort, and nobody likes going to the bookstore any more.

When was the last time you were in a bookstore? Finding the book you're after is a PitA at the least, and if you're lucky and what you are after is the latest and greatest book then they'll have a couple of copies, and you can get out of there. Many places, here in the states, the book stores are full of calenders, games, and other crap.

Electronic book readers make it so I can sit right there, without bothering to go to the bookstore and put up with all the crap involved in going to the store. I can hit it up, do a quick search that doesn't involve others, download the book instantly, then kick back and read it.

It doesn't take up the limited space I have in my house, I don't have to worry about losing it or forgetting it in the car, or whatever. Sure, there's some of that with the book reader, but all in all it's more convenient (and serves more purposes then one book) and easier to carry around.

Which makes people more likely to read. They don't lose their place, they don't have to worry about how long they have. They can just knock it right out.

More people reading, means that more people are likely to spree buy a book in the checkout line for the supermarket, more likely to pick up a book at a yard sale or in the airport gift shop, or even order one online because it's preorder and the book doesn't come out on ebook for 3 months after the hardcopy comes out.

With movies becoming more of the same ol' same ol' (Come on, they made a movie based on the game Battleship, does anyone trust Hollywood any more?) people are finding that buying books for their Kindle (which can be charged in the lighter of their car, making it a must-use accessory now) is cheaper and last longer than a movie.

A Blu-Ray or DVD costs between $15 and $40, you can get an easy dozen quick and cheap eBooks for that price, or a handful. Hey, you can grab a trilogy off of Amazon for $5.99 of complete books available at the book stores.

I don't think books are becoming obsolete, any more than the VCR or DVD or cable made the big 3 networks obsolete.

I think that it'll actually cause a resurgence in reading.

jeffo
02-21-2014, 04:55 PM
It is indeed quite interesting to read everyone's comments here about eBooks -- in most cases, I can relate to many of the comments. I, too, never considered buying an e-reader, but won one in a contest -- and absolutely loved it. I think one of my favorite things about eBooks is the quantity -- there are so many more eBooks that will never see physical print. While that does give rise to some quite horrible writings, it also lets even more authors suddenly show up on the scene. And no, I'm not saying that because I'm bitter because no one would publish my book (seriously, I've only written magazine articles so far).

It is interesting to compare the change to other changes in history. As for me, I see it as just that -- it's a change. Will physical books ever go away? Who knows? I bet at one time people could never imagine life without horse plows, either! :)

Rbel
03-07-2014, 02:36 AM
I'm sure there will always be people who enjoy reading and escaping regular life through stories. I personally, have tried and hate reading on my phone or other devices. I prefer holding a copy in my hands, seeing it on paper.

Primus
03-14-2014, 08:08 AM
Books have been getting more and more expensive, ($8.99 for a freakin' paperback? Why don't you just rob me?) and many are getting thinner and thinner. They involve a significant amount of investment as far as time and effort, and nobody likes going to the bookstore any more.


Not sure what you're talking about here, but…okay. I personally still like going to the bookstore, not only because I like physically shopping for books (also, I kind of like the smell of bookstores), but also because I don't have an e-reader. I'm old-school. I still like to hold my books and feel the paper in my hands. That said, I probably will get an e-reader one of these days.

benbradley
03-19-2014, 06:57 AM
http://www.offthemark.com/System/2013-08-16

On the other hand, I don't see an 8-track cartridge sitting at the bar.

RookieWriter
03-23-2014, 05:44 AM
I still buy print books but I also use e-books and audio books. They all have their advantages and disadvantages, so whatever works best for people is cool with me, as long as they keep supporting books. I personally love the e-books because of how easy they are to get and carry around. On my nook, which is smaller than many hardcovers I own, I can carry hundreds, probably thousands, of books anywhere I want. It makes it a lot easier when traveling or moving. Almost all of my books are purchased at Barnes and Noble, Amazon, or when the local library has a book sale.

nilacqua
03-30-2014, 07:54 AM
I got a nook last fall, mostly so I could access technical libraries that have online presences(Safari Online) on the bus. My work reading is all technical and requires a great deal of skimming and searches, things which e-readers excel at(much better than indexes). The same is true for fun reading, easier to find quotes. If it is a quick series(ie Hunger Games), it's very practical to just buy the next in the series directly on the e-reader.

If it's a more involved book, something to spend time on, it is nice to have a physical copy. Its batteries don't die. It doesn't strain your eyes. You can lend it out. It looks nice on the bookcase. Though the last part is a double edged sword. When my wife and I move, half our boxes are of books, and we get rid of a fair number. If we had e-readers from the beginning, we would still have all of those books, ones we look for before realizing that we got rid of, and much easier moves.

Honestly, I'm still on the edge about digital vs physical copies of books.

Day Agent
04-19-2014, 09:41 PM
I'd say book will be around until printable material runs out. Trends in digitization will likely continue, elevating the exclusivity of physical books and upping their status as gifts.
That said, nooks, tablets and phones will ultimately merge into heritage items, which will level the distinction somewhat.

ArtisticRabbit
04-21-2014, 08:42 AM
Personally, I love my Kindle Fire HD. It felt so good when I finally got to buy it after saving up the money (cheaper than an iPad but still kinda pricey).

That being said, I will always have a spot for physical books, and I suspect that most other readers do, too, so I don't see them going anywhere anytime soon. I'll fill my Kindle with loads of ebooks, and then buy my favorites in print format so I can have them forever. Saves up on room, too, since I already have a ridiculous amount of books. We move around quite a bit.

Nancyleeny
05-04-2014, 02:18 PM
I have Kindle on my iPad, but I don't really like reading on it. I won't buy an instructional ebook ever again! Whether it's a book on jewelry making or a cookbook, looking at it in kindle makes it harder for my brain to process.

I'm not crazy about it for novels - I lose my place and don't have a sense of how far along I am in the work which, for some reason, matters to me when I read. When I travel, however, it's ok, because I don't have to drag books along.

sophiabegum1980
05-13-2014, 03:27 PM
I think books will "never" become obsolete, but "book sales" will always be affected because of technology such as the Kindle.

I think this kind of technology brings about sad times for books. I think it also encourages the younger generations to avoid books, and that could be quite dangerous.

Thrillerlover
06-27-2014, 09:39 PM
I'm not a big fan of reading novels on the Kindle, but I do find myself increasingly listening to books on tape.

annak97
07-11-2014, 09:55 PM
Books will never become obsolete. Sure, in the simplest form, maybe, eventually, in the far future, we won't have paperbacks and hardcovers anymore. But think about it. Writing is a facet of art, just as books are a facet of writing, and art is part of our humanity. Books have the power to transport someone to another world, to completely immerse them in words and images, to thrill their veins with fear and with love and with excitement. Books will never become obsolete, because that means humanity will become obsolete. It is in our very natures to appreciate art, and thus to appreciate words and books and stories. So sure, the physical paperback book might eventually disappear. But not in our lifetime, not when we still love the feel of paper in our hands, the fresh smell, and the sounds of a spine cracking. Because while we still love them, there will always be someone who has the power to make them.


I apologize for the rant. I get carried away about writing and books. But then again, this is the best place to get carried away about such things :D

BookmarkUnicorn
07-12-2014, 07:34 AM
Where I live we don't have any used book stores or normal book stores for that matter. Your only chance to find a book and actually pick it up and touch it is at Walmart or the tiny book section at Safeway, both often at full price. Buying online is really the only way I even get to see most books. I do have a kindle paperwhite but often I can buy a book for much cheaper in paperback. I don't think paper format will ever totally die out, not while there are still collectors that love the smell and feel of a nice old book.

gcommon
07-15-2014, 09:49 PM
Not speaking of ebooks; books aren't reliant on electricity or any other type of technology to function. Of course you have to print them with technology but after it's printed it's a self sustaining source of entertainment. If something ever happens as we revert back to a time without tech or power, we'll still have our books. Paper documents hold more power then electronic ones do.

kylaurel
07-16-2014, 12:08 AM
I think that e-books will eventually replace print for fiction, but it will take a while. The market share grows every year as more and more people get turned on to e-readers and tablets. I'm an old fart (68 years old) and I prefer reading e-books. However, others I know in my age group are divided in their preference. Some want only print, others only e-books, and some read both. Even my 87-year old aunt reads fiction on a Nook Color.

It used to be whenever I moved from one home to another, I had to lug hundreds of books; now I can take thousands on a lightweight gadget. Can't beat that! And I love being able to make the text whatever size I want and being able to click on a word I'm not sure of and see the definition. I like mysteries and often go back in a book to see something I think I read that I later think might have been a clue. In a print book that requires time and a lot of page-flipping. With an e-book, if I can remember just a few words, I can usually search for the spot. Give me an e-book any day for fiction!

However -- I think print is here to stay for instructional manuals, art and photography books, etc. At least for me. I prefer magazines in print, too. I just can't get the hang of reading them on tablets or e-readers.

Whether a book is print or digital or audio -- it's still a BOOK! That's what matters.

elizrose23
07-16-2014, 06:00 PM
I truly feel there is a passion for books that will keep them around, regardless of technology. Everyone who prefers books to ebooks, including myself, seems to become so impassioned when the topic comes up: They love books and they will fight for their books. I also agree with those who have made the point it is an art form, and that is one of the reasons it will remain.

Also, and I know this involves children's literature and not adult, but what about picture books? Is everyone really going to get rid of that? It's so nice to have a child interact with something that doesn't need a charge. I've seen kids read on iPads, and it's not the same. They don't engage with the text in the same way. And this is just personal preference, but I myself would never want to sit down with a tablet or kindle at night to read to my kids before bed.

I'm sorry this is turning into a rant, but I love books. I love the weight of them, I love displaying them in bookcases, providing me a nice visible journey of where I've traveled in the land of stories. I love physically turning the page, the smell of the paper, and how each printed book feels different and is unique. There is an emotional connection to books that I just can't find with ebooks, and I know many others who feel this way as well, and they're not old, like myself (I'm 27). We would have this debate in college literature classes and those who preferred books were always the majority.

So, in summary, and I could be very wrong, time will tell, but I think books are here to stay because the love for the printed text is just too strong.

Sweetwheat
07-18-2014, 01:07 AM
hmm. I but books from traditional published authors through B&N, but from Indies through my Kindle. If that helps answer your Q. lol.

Leslie Williams
07-18-2014, 06:36 AM
I heard someone say that if an EMP hit the US in one of 4 places (not big cities but where internet is vitally routed etc) it would take out all computer technology and take 20 years to recover. So hang on to your print books :}

leslie williams

Also, I enjoy ordering from ABE Books, used and often incredibly cheap and they come in the mail and are waiting in your mailbox when you've had a hard day.

soho-syndrome
07-21-2014, 08:19 PM
I have nothing against ebooks (I read on my iPhone all the time), but when I discover a book that I really enjoyed I go ahead and buy the hardbound copy of it. At the end of the day, nothing beats the feel and smell of crisp pages :)

Mojocastle
07-29-2014, 09:11 AM
I don't feel the want for paper books will ever die out, even if the need does. Ebooks give people the instant gratification hit they enjoy, but being able to hold the physical book is soothing, and depending on the location one wishes to read in, better suited than an electronic device. Also, you don't have to worry about charging them.

Komnena
07-29-2014, 05:05 PM
Disasters can strike physical books too. I am sorting through my physical books because of bedbugs. I'm having to throw out many of them. I guess there's no such thing as a perfect solution.
If you value your printed books I would suggest you start securing them in ziplock bags now. I'm having to do it in a rush job. I wish I had started doing this years ago.

SquirrellyGirl
08-08-2014, 01:47 AM
It looks like I am in the minority, but I have to admit that I love ebooks, for a bunch or reasons. I have a bookcase (or two) in every single room of my house, and every one is overflowing. I have books in boxes, stuck in drawers, under every bed... I've considered turning an entire room of my house into a library (if only I had an extra room!). The books I have take up A LOT of space. I can have all those books in one hand on my Nook. I can also share my entire virtual library with all the other people in my house simultaneously, which means that we don't fight over the book we're all currently reading anymore (we all have Nooks). And I never lose a book, they're all right there forever. I have spent hours searching every one of those book cases because Kid #3 has just grown into a series her brothers outgrew years ago, and now I can't find #7 and she's just finished #6, and I don't want to buy it because I KNOW I have it somewhere! And when I really can't find #7 and give up, I walk to the computer, type the title into the search box, click pay, and that book is instantly there. She can continue reading, even though it's 11pm on Friday night.

tianaluthien
08-10-2014, 10:50 PM
I spent about 4 1/2 years working in a bookstore (Indigo, of the Chapters-Indigo chain in Canada), and about halfway through my time we started selling the Kobo e-reader to compete with the Kindle from Amazon.

I understand that ereaders have their place (I mean, if you travel a lot it's perfect: instead of carrying 5 books with you because you don't know what to read, you carry your entire library in something that fits in your handbag).

But.

I still hate them. And I was thankfully never given a shift where I had to sell them because I would have done a very poor job of it. I love the feel of a book between my fingers, the smell of the pages. I love walking into a bookstore and browsing the stacks. I love roving through my own bookshelves and discovering something I haven't read yet, or re-discovering an old friend, pulling it out to read a much loved passage.

As much as possible, I try to buy my books from the store itself and only order online if I absolutely cannot get it any other way (I've discovered bookdepository which is AMAZING. Ships from the UK but free shipping to Canada, no matter how much your order totals. Sweet. And so dangerous.).

I do not think books will ever go out of style. Thus far they have withstood the test of time and I think they will continue to do so. Ereaders are a new technology and (IMHO) the craze for them will eventually settle and they will find their niche alongside print volumes.

That being said, I don't know about the future of big chain bookstores. I know that selling gift product was, quote, "What saved us [this] Christmas." And yet smaller bookstores in the city, like Paragraph, are doing well.

writingdalloway
08-19-2014, 07:29 PM
Post modern literature is dead. Post publishing literature is the next big thing!

Matty lll
08-20-2014, 01:09 AM
Never!

C.bronco
08-30-2014, 08:00 AM
Books will Never become obsolete because I will slay those who seek to stifle books with my Elder Wand! They will run, crying, and I will decadently roll in pages, laughing at their folly. Mwa ha ha!

Or,


Just no. Sometimes the internet and electricity goes out. Books don't run out of juice or rely on technology to exist.

ColdWintersNight
09-12-2014, 08:45 AM
They said theater would die once TVs were made. Soooo..yeah.

Godyth
09-18-2014, 11:20 PM
I, too, enjoy my Kindle. I read novels on it. It can go in my bag so that if I'm sitting and waiting anywhere, I can pull it out. However, I do love the tactile nature of a book. I like to be able to flip back and forth, to stick in post it notes and mark in the margins (my working copies), but I especially just love to sit and read with the occasional turn of a page. It's a zen thing.
Having said that, I ponder the question of the eventual demise of the printed book.
No one thought that photography would ever go away, but try to find a camera that's not digital. "Well, I can buy one on Ebay" you say, and my answer to that is: yes, you can. Now try to find the film, and the developer and all the other little things that make wet lab work possible. Is traditional photography still practiced? Yes, by a very few who are dedicated and are willing to pay extra to those few, small independent companies who make small batches of materials once or twice a year for the diehards. But, is photography as we knew it gone? Yes, on a practical level.
So, will books disappear? Probably not. But, will they continue to be produced in the way we now understand them to be published, by the 10's of thousands or millions through large publishing houses? Maybe not. Small runs of very special books by very special authors subsidized by the handful of dedicated readers willing to support a specialized market might be the future.

Komnena
09-20-2014, 06:34 AM
Godyth
Film has mostly gone, true. But do digital cameras not take photographs just like film cameras did?

Creative Ghost
09-20-2014, 07:21 PM
Godyth
Film has mostly gone, true. But do digital cameras not take photographs just like film cameras did?Yes. Just as ebooks tell stories with words just like print books do. Only digitally.

jtsavoy
09-22-2014, 05:32 PM
As a writer, I find the e-book format works best for me in my current situation.

With Scrivener as my main tool, I see greater control over the finished product in the ebook format. However, I also recognize that there are pros and cons to each. The main bookstores in NY have all but dried up. Which is sad. They tried adding a lot of other amenities to make it more reader friendly (cafes, reading nooks, even play areas for kids) in several large chains. Unfortunately fewer and fewer people shopped to support the staff, rents, inventory, etc of large chain retails. BnN is still hunkered down, but some great spots are gone.
I did like my discovery of new works from the cream of the crop when I did check into those old bookstores. It had also been my dream to walk into some places and see my covers next to my fav authors. Funny enough, now I get the same sensation opening my iBooks and seeing my stuff in my own personal bookstore next to those same inspirations.
Not really an answer to the question. Just early Monday thoughts!

juniper
09-22-2014, 10:55 PM
I, too, enjoy my Kindle. I read novels on it. It can go in my bag so that if I'm sitting and waiting anywhere, I can pull it out. However, I do love the tactile nature of a book. I like to be able to flip back and forth, to stick in post it notes and mark in the margins (my working copies), but I especially just love to sit and read with the occasional turn of a page.

This is pretty much me, except for the Kindle part (I don't do Amazon books). I started out with a Kobo a couple of years ago but went to the Nook because Kobo customer service is just awful.

I really like the tactile aspects of reading. The paper pages. The holding the book. Being able to turn back a couple of pages to find a certain passage again.

With physical books I can remember where on a page a specific sentence or paragraph was - "About halfway through the book, on the left side, near the bottom." Can't do that on ebooks, since the pages all flow together. I can't instantly tell how far along I am in the ebook - have to check the page number (and some ebooks don't have the pages numbered ... that's a problem).

But - I took my Nook on vacation this summer and it was wonderful. Wonderful! A bunch of books with me that weren't heavy and cumbersome carrying around through airports. Plus I was at a place that doesn't have electric lights in the bedrooms so at night I could read without a flashlight - I have a Nook Glowlight that has its own lighting.

So - I swing both ways on books. I like THIS because ... and THAT because ... I guess I just like books, period. :)

larissahinton
09-25-2014, 01:27 PM
It looks like I am in the minority, but I have to admit that I love ebooks, for a bunch or reasons. I have a bookcase (or two) in every single room of my house, and every one is overflowing. I have books in boxes, stuck in drawers, under every bed... I've considered turning an entire room of my house into a library (if only I had an extra room!). The books I have take up A LOT of space. I can have all those books in one hand on my Nook. I can also share my entire virtual library with all the other people in my house simultaneously, which means that we don't fight over the book we're all currently reading anymore (we all have Nooks). And I never lose a book, they're all right there forever. I have spent hours searching every one of those book cases because Kid #3 has just grown into a series her brothers outgrew years ago, and now I can't find #7 and she's just finished #6, and I don't want to buy it because I KNOW I have it somewhere! And when I really can't find #7 and give up, I walk to the computer, type the title into the search box, click pay, and that book is instantly there. She can continue reading, even though it's 11pm on Friday night.

This is exactly why I love my kindle. I can store a ton of books on one device and not have to lug five books in a tote bag. And, I don't have to get the eye rolls from my family that I have a bag that's about the same size of me. Not to mention, I don't have to worry about my shoulders getting all achy.

Don't get me wrong, I still love going to the library and borrowing books. I like reading books in print form. I just don't like to walk away with a tower of books and pray I can make it to the car.

Anyway, I don't think books are obsolete. My public library is always packed. Always. And my students (yes, I'm an English teacher) from my last years group mostly read print books even though they are allowed to use their cell phones or ereaders. It's too early to tell with this years group since they haven't really gotten used to the daily reading yet (a.k.a. still equal reading with torture or sleep time). So all of this to say, books aren't going anywhere. The book stores may become obsolete (like Borders) but not actual books.

Locke
09-26-2014, 10:32 PM
Godyth
Film has mostly gone, true. But do digital cameras not take photographs just like film cameras did?

I sort of get what you're saying, but speaking as a person who counts photography among his creative pursuits, no, they don't. Digital presents a whole different set of challenges than film. I realize I'm being somewhat pedantic (FWIW, the old 220 or 35mm film formats which were popular as consumer cameras don't have much if any of an advantage to their digital counterparts), but there really are some limitations, to the point that many professional photographers (protogs, to use the lingo) who keep a film camera or two around, even if not in formats that most people twenty years ago would expect to buy in a convenience store.

But the analogy somewhat holds true. Just as digital photography offers people a lot in the way of cost savings and convenience, as do digital books. But there's a certain art to printed books that's lost in the digital format. You can't rub the nice heavy bond between your fingers or proudly browse the spines on your bookshelf. You also can't collect signed first editions, which is a hobby I find is becoming more and more rare.

And the analogy continues with it's effect on the industry. Since everybody effectively now has a camera in their pocket, there's a proliferation of slightly off-focus, centered subject, completely blown highlights or mired in shadows photos out there, not to mention the people who tote around huge DSLR's that have never changed a lens in their life and leave the camera in its automatic exposure mode. The equivalence in literature is the number of people who have convinced themselves that there exists some guardian controversy among book publishers and have used this opportunity to foist their genius upon the world without a modicum of attention to editing or style.

So, it is what it is, and I expect that books will settle into the same blurry lines as photography has, where anybody can take pictures with a nice camera, but only those who give the prerequisite attention to form and craft can stand apart. Paper books will live on, though they may become more expensive and specialized than their digital counterparts. That's honestly not what writers should really be worried about, however, because it's the words on the page that we need to build in order to stand out from the crowd.

C.bronco
09-30-2014, 06:35 AM
I went to an actual real-life bookstore on Saturday that had new books. It was awesome!!!

Godyth
10-01-2014, 10:34 PM
Godyth
Film has mostly gone, true. But do digital cameras not take photographs just like film cameras did?

At the risk of hijacking this thread, my answer is "no, absolutely not". For family snaps going into scrapbooks, basic magazine production or for images online, then digital is fine. But, if you are examining photos on a critical level as a work of art, there is no comparison. There is a quality, a fineness, to film work that digital can never recreate. Never.
If you don't have a basis of experience for what film looks like, then it's difficult to explain, but any film photographer will tell you that film and digital are worlds apart.
Digital will always have pixels that get in the way of the image. Film can deliver a clarity unsurpassed by even the most expensive digital system.
That's why film photographers cling to their cameras and lenses and lighting systems and struggle to keep the art form alive. It cannot be recreated digitally.

Hapax Legomenon
10-01-2014, 10:51 PM
Most people for memory books and such just use digital photos, and for art purposes you use film. There are many, many MANY things that an artist will use that are considered "obsolete" because there is an easier way for someone who is not an expert to do them.

Godyth
10-01-2014, 10:59 PM
So, it is what it is, and I expect that books will settle into the same blurry lines as photography has, where anybody can take pictures with a nice camera, but only those who give the prerequisite attention to form and craft can stand apart. Paper books will live on, though they may become more expensive and specialized than their digital counterparts. That's honestly not what writers should really be worried about, however, because it's the words on the page that we need to build in order to stand out from the crowd.
Yes, agreed.
The analogy between cameras and books extends to the loss of education in the finer points of the art forms. Just as anyone can tote around an iPhone and take pics (they're just as good, right?) now anyone can self-publish. Which means that to add to the plethora of badly composed, out of focus selfies out there, there are also badly composed, poorly edited self-published books flooding Amazon.
Not to say that there aren't lots of people self-publishing whose work isn't good, but so much of it is mediocre.
That's my point.
We are now a consumer society that is content with mediocrity. That's the sad commentary.
The good news is that I expect that there will always be authors who strive to create the best works that they can, who will build worlds rich in language that elevates writing, keeps us entertained, educates us or advances culture. That's what we should be concerned with, and those are the ones that will stand the test of time.

Godyth
10-01-2014, 11:03 PM
Most people for memory books and such just use digital photos, and for art purposes you use film. There are many, many MANY things that an artist will use that are considered "obsolete" because there is an easier way for someone who is not an expert to do them.
Yep, like trying to explain to someone the difference between real printmaking (lithography, etching et al) and giclée prints. Not the same. Just not.

ColdWintersNight
10-04-2014, 09:20 AM
In NY there's this awesome book store that sells books for 1 buck. They have no idea whats new or in, so the newest craze can be just be a one dollar, and a hardbound. It's like treasure hunting. And I get such a rush when I find the book I was looking for. No thrill like that on a kindle.

D S LILLICO
10-08-2014, 01:38 AM
It is the same with video games. There is nothing better than opening a new game box or book and smelling the inside. I am all for digital to help broaden audiences but there hopefully is always a choice.

I choose physical copies where I can, even if it costs a few more quid.

Ian Thompson
10-13-2014, 01:12 AM
I hope their not, what will I prop my coffee table up with!!

On a less childish note I doubt it there's always new readers discovering books.

gingerwoman
10-13-2014, 01:16 AM
My wife and I did as millions of others around the world did over the holidays; we went shopping at the local mall. On that particular day, nearly every square inch of the building was jammed-packed with shoppers. Every store filled to capacity, except for one, which I’ll get to in a moment. As we walked along a corridor, practically rubbing elbows with others, I turned my head and looked into Waldenbooks. Aside from the clerk at the register and a single individual near the back of the store reaching up to one of the shelves, the store was completely empty! I turned to my wife, who is well aware of my love of books, and I said, “Look at how empty that store is. That is sad. That is really sad.”

She remarked something about how, more and more, people are turning to the Internet or electronic devices for their reading. That picking up an actual hardcover or paperback book and turning its pages is becoming a thing of the past.

That is sad.

RA
For quite some time I've bought print books via Amazon because of the wide selection. I actually started doing that back in 1996 before Amazon was .....well what it is now. I also buy ebooks.

There are lots of online stores for books, I think that's more the issue.

Quentin Nokov
10-13-2014, 04:10 AM
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/6f/b7/e3/6fb7e3bb4d76d8ab134f8a76c8aa361b.jpg

kylaurel
10-18-2014, 11:17 PM
Love the cartoon! Besides being funny, there's a lot of truth to it. I prefer reading fiction and some nonfiction on my Nook for a lot of reasons. I love being able to make the print whatever size I want and being able to search for something I remember reading earlier in the book. I like being able to look up a word that I'm not sure of, and I like being able to highlight and comment, then easily remove both without damaging the "book." And, of course, being able to have thousands of books on a tiny device can't be beat.

That said, there will always be a place for print books, particularly ones with lots of pictures or graphics. And some people will always prefer reading all books in physical form. I do think bookstores are likely to be facing an even bigger struggle in the future. That's progress, as the buggy maker said with commiseration to the ice man. I do like that an ebook lover can buy through Kobo and support the local bookstore at the same time, but I'm not sure that's going to be enough. And Amazon and ebooks aren't entirely to blame--big box stores selling books has also cut into the customer base of bookstores.

Voluptua von T
10-27-2014, 02:09 AM
Hmm. I like the way youtube opens up video content to new and riskier shows and concepts, and to minorities. I like the way Ebooks open up publishing. I'd rather have a book in my hands, but I think we should welcome any form of publishing that weakens the power of gatekeepers.

Just like great cinema talents get discovered in the much cheaper and more accessible theatre spaces, isn't it nice that now Ebooks mean some of the next bestsellers can be picked by readers rather than publishers?

Sorry if this point has already been made over and over, I only had time to read a chunk of the thread.

theotter
01-10-2015, 06:16 AM
As long as people write them, no. Also, the fact that you are even asking that question shows people still care.

C.bronco
01-10-2015, 07:15 AM
My son gets actual books from the school library, and reads them on the bus ride home! It makes my heart ahappy.

Bryan Methods
01-18-2015, 11:11 PM
The way we're acquiring books is changing, and there are more and more people who almost never read. But it's also easier and easier to reach a much wider audience and choose books from other cultures. It's pretty exciting!

TeamWingless
01-30-2015, 09:46 PM
Well when the zombie apocalypse hits and all electricity stops circulating, people are going to be really sad when their Kindle libraries blow up in their faces. But honestly books aren't dying, it's the selection process that's becoming stricter IMO. For instance, why buy a dime novel for $5 when you can get it for $.99 on your phone? You were paying for the paper and it's not a very good book anyway. HOWEVER, the Pulitzer Price winning scifi poem ANIARA goes for $149 used! If I really fall in love with a book, I buy the hardcover for my shelf, I'm one of those people who has read every book in their library and painstakingly selected which ones to display (I only say this because I know of people who have Proust and Dumas in their libraries just to appear cultured and have never actually read them). So in summary, I don't think it's all books that are becoming obsolete, just the cheap ones ;)

rockondon
03-17-2015, 09:48 PM
Quentin's cartoon is perfect.
There will always be a demand for books, and authors. I would guess that digital books outsell paper books in the future, but that's nothing to be concerned about.

juniper
03-17-2015, 09:56 PM
Until last month, I could go browse through a pretty good used bookstore just 2 miles away. It had been in business for 30 years and had 3200 sq feet of space. Last month, it closed. They said they couldn't compete with digital sales.

A few years ago the Borders nearby closed. Now the only options for books for me are about 13 miles to Powells or 13 miles to Barnes and Noble.

There's a store called Book Warehouse that opened in an outlet mall nearby, but it's just remainders, apparently.

I can spend hours in a bookstore. I had a Kobo and now a Nook, which is great for travel, but I still prefer a paper book for most of my reading.

Although the text book for this term I got an ebook, on a rental from Amazon. One-third the price of buying it, and I could make highlights and notes from it that printed out. I really liked that. Much easier to hold the iPad than a heavy textbook.

Chase
03-17-2015, 11:44 PM
Now the only options for books for me are about 13 miles to Powells

I have four times as far to drive to Powell's Bookstore than your cute little dog chauffeurs you :D, but I never miss a visit there when we're in Portland. Great maze inside, innit?

My WIP's on my laptop, and I edit exclusively online every day, so reading for pleasure is always a book with renewable wood pages (:applause:, Oregon lumberjacks). We also subscribe to a daily local newspaper.

Old school in Albany.

benbradley
03-18-2015, 01:07 AM
I first heard of Powell's in the 1990s, the decade I perused the aisles of the late Oxford Too bookstore (and most other bookstores, thrift stores, library sales and flea markets in Atlanta). Online buying has greatly reduced my need for finding unusual, out of print and other hard-to-find titles (which are not often available in electronic form even in the 21st Century), but I still need to make a Pilgrimage.

Kronisk
03-29-2015, 03:28 AM
There are pros and cons with digital. We all know the cons such as rampant piracy (which I will not go into because get me rambling about the majors' desire to turn the Internet into TV II, and look out) or loss of moderation.

For me, the pros of my e-readers are very simple and impossible to argue with. I cannot stand the Times New Roman style print almost exclusively used in printed books. Something about it just makes me strain to read, and although I respect that the publishing industry has got to have a set standard, it takes a very good book indeed to get past the strain I feel when reading Times New Roman on paper.

The less I say about Jon Stewart and "it's like an iPad, only thicker", the better. But both my iPad and TRS-T3 can do a buttload of things that a book cannot. Annotations, for instance.

So where I am going with this is that I can change the font face, size, and even physical orientation of my ebooks. If I think the text is narrowed into too small a part of the "page", I can invoke a function to zoom in. These little things alone have improved the enjoyability of reading for me to no end. (And this is a big point because I was a hyperlexic child that found reading uncomfortable no matter how much people pressured me to do it.)

When new things come along, it in my opinion behoves the old to either pick up their game in response, or get out of the way.

kdaniel171
04-09-2015, 09:49 PM
I think e-books will never win the e-books vs. printed books battle.
Yes, It's cheaper.
Yes, It's easier and faster to get the book.
Yes, It's lightweight.

But there's something special about holding paper book in your hands, turning pages, smelling it.
It can't be matched with pixels on a screen.

The Alchemist
04-10-2015, 06:59 PM
I don't think book stores will ever completely go away but there is no doubt that people are turning more and more to electronic sources for reading. I believe book stores will become (if not already) a supplier for the "niche" market of people who like having books in paper format. Physical books won't go extinct but they will probably be restricted to hole-in-the-wall type places as opposed to big retail stores like Barnes and Noble. Here in Miami we have a great store called Dunbar Old Books that has a lot of old/out-of-print stuff that would be hard to find elsewhere. Places like that will live on when Barnes and Noble is no longer needed in today's society.

heza
04-10-2015, 07:20 PM
Has anyone posted this article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/why-digital-natives-prefer-reading-in-print-yes-you-read-that-right/2015/02/22/8596ca86-b871-11e4-9423-f3d0a1ec335c_story.html) anywhere yet?


Textbook makers, bookstore owners and college student surveys all say millennials still strongly prefer print for pleasure and learning, a bias that surprises reading experts given the same group’s proclivity to consume most other content digitally.