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View Full Version : Well, this was perhaps the most annoying thing I've ever read.



Mharvey
12-24-2012, 05:14 AM
The only reason this is worth mentioning is because it's the 6th hit if you google "Absolute Write." It rates our site at a 1.4 out of 5 stars.

sitejabber.com/reviews/www.absolutewrite.com

It's clear to me that this is a place where the people who get banned for being asshats go to complain about Absolute Write. They even explain why in some of their "sob stories" such as registering only to post once or twice only for the purposes of self-promotion, then throw a hissy fit when they get their thread locked. Normally, I'd write this off, but it seems only 18 reviews were posted, almost all of them by pure tossers. It shows an extremely one-sided view of the site.

I've gone ahead and registered with that site to post a 5 star review of Absolute Write under the name Matthew H.
If you're up to it and feel it's warranted, I'd encourage anyone else to do the same. Don't lie - just give it a more balanced perspective. Not everyone who reviews it should be some imbecile with a grudge.

Mods, if this isn't an appropriate place for this thread, I apologize. Move it wherever you see fit. Thanks.

quicklime
12-24-2012, 05:17 AM
this wasn't the pity-party site I thought you would reference....apparently there are several. the bullying site had some comments about AW including one guy explaining how helpful he'd always been, and he hadn't even changed his screen name. I sat back thinking "I remember him; he was a prick."

Which suggests to me that the simple truth of asshattery is 99% of all asshats have no idea they're actually asshats.

Sophia
12-24-2012, 05:28 AM
Try not to let it get to you. I realise that's not easy, because you care about this community. But responding in the way you're suggesting is not necessary. Have you heard of 'the author's big mistake'? It is a similar situation to that. Don't respond to a bad review.

AW can't be all things to all people, and it doesn't try to be. It is what the members make it, and overall it's a great place that helps a lot of people. But sometimes it doesn't suit some people, and that's okay, because there are lots of other places that might be a great fit for them.

That you want to defend AW is very kind. Try to let it go.

Mharvey
12-24-2012, 05:37 AM
Try not to let it get to you. I realise that's not easy, because you care about this community. But responding in the way you're suggesting is not necessary. Have you heard of 'the author's big mistake'? It is a similar situation to that. Don't respond to a bad review.

AW can't be all things to all people, and it doesn't try to be. It is what the members make it, and overall it's a great place that helps a lot of people. But sometimes it doesn't suit some people, and that's okay, because there are lots of other places that might be a great fit for them.

That you want to defend AW is very kind. Try to let it go.

If I were actually an Administrator, I would agree with you. I would also frown upon an Admin soliciting the community to "go and fix this". But I'm not an admin, nor have a financial stake in Absolute Write's success, so the comparison is a bit off IMHO.

It's closer to me reading a book, loving it, and then going on a site where everyone has just trashed it for reasons I thought were ridiculous... like: "I sent fanmail to the author and they never responded!"

I think it's completely reasonable to post a single review, as someone who is not invested monetarily in the book, then tell all my friends who also read the book, to post their honest thoughts. Just my opinion, though.

jeffo20
12-24-2012, 05:45 AM
Honestly, after perusing the thread over there, I wouldn't bother. It's very clear that those are people who's minds are already made up. Trying to offer a different opinion seems more likely to result in the sort of shout downs they accuse this site of encouraging. Better to just let people make up their own minds about it, in my opinion.

Little Ming
12-24-2012, 06:02 AM
Try not to let it get to you. I realise that's not easy, because you care about this community. But responding in the way you're suggesting is not necessary. Have you heard of 'the author's big mistake'? It is a similar situation to that. Don't respond to a bad review.

AW can't be all things to all people, and it doesn't try to be. It is what the members make it, and overall it's a great place that helps a lot of people. But sometimes it doesn't suit some people, and that's okay, because there are lots of other places that might be a great fit for them.

That you want to defend AW is very kind. Try to let it go.

x10

I know you mean well, Mharvey, but I think it's better to just walk away from this.

Mharvey
12-24-2012, 06:21 AM
I really don't see the harm here. I'll be the first to say you should never defend your own work, but Absolute Write isn't my work. I don't see how posting my honest feelings on - perhaps - the first site people will see on Google that rates Absolute Write based on its ranking is such a wrong and morally shady thing to do. Nor do I think it's morally questionable to post the link here and say: "vote honestly, so there's more of a balanced perspective." If you think the site sucks, tell them. At least you'll be giving an opinion on content... not some stupid grudge because Aunty Mac didn't buy you a pony after your second post.

All it boils down to is sharing your opinion with others. If you want to, great. If not, great... but I don't get how it's wrong.

jclarkdawe
12-24-2012, 06:24 AM
Life's real simple. You do things. Some people like them. Others don't. So what. The question is whether you're satisfied with what you did. If you are, great. If not, improve.

I've gotten personal comments on other sites about the critiques I've given that were not polite. After I got done with a witness, the witness was so mad the bailiffs escorted me to my car (the judge ruled in my client's favor). Yeah, I tick off people. I probably shouldn't. But I'm not going to change the mind of those who don't like me, and I'm not going to spend any effort on the issue.

Life's real simple. I do things. Some I need to improve on. Others I don't. The opinion of the peanut gallery is their problem.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

dangerousbill
12-24-2012, 06:26 AM
I know you mean well, Mharvey, but I think it's better to just walk away from this.

I responded.

GrayLensman
12-24-2012, 06:36 AM
AW can't be all things to all people, and it doesn't try to be. It is what the members make it, and overall it's a great place that helps a lot of people. But sometimes it doesn't suit some people, and that's okay, because there are lots of other places that might be a great fit for them.

I wish it were that simple. I hesitated joining here when I perused the forums, found the TIO one. I was very much off-put that there were thread no only illustrating personal denigration of people, but celebrating it. There's an unprofessional streak here.

There's a lot... LOT... of good stuff here that, in the end, convinced me to come in, so to speak. And the good is a hell of a lot bigger than the negative "reviews" on that site claim. But there is more than a grain of truth in them.

Mharvey
12-24-2012, 06:40 AM
I wish it were that simple. I hesitated joining here when I perused the forums, found the TIO one. I was very much off-put that there were thread no only illustrating personal denigration of people, but celebrating it. There's an unprofessional streak here.

There's a lot... LOT... of good stuff here that, in the end, convinced me to come in, so to speak. And the good is a hell of a lot bigger than the negative "reviews" on that site claim. But there is more than a grain of truth in them.

And no one will say you can't post a review giving the site 1, 2 or 3 stars as someone who has - at least - done more than just sign-up, use this community purely to advertise their crappy e-book on their first post... and then stomp their feet when they were called on their transparent asshatery.

dangerousbill
12-24-2012, 06:48 AM
Not everyone who reviews it should be some imbecile with a grudge.


It seems like the kind of site that would attract vindictive rejects.

It's kind of like traveladvisor.com , which is an excellent site for screening prospective hotels before a trip. But the reviews have to be considered advisedly--people don't generally bother posting reviews unless they're pissed off over something, so the average of all reviews is more negative than reality.

BenPanced
12-24-2012, 06:53 AM
Different day, same shit.

Beachgirl
12-24-2012, 07:06 AM
I read the reviews. Since I'm one of those paranormal romance writers they seem to look down upon, what would be the point in expressing my opinion over there?

I will say here, however, that had it not been for the advice and encouragement I received at AW I doubt I would be published today.

Manuel Royal
12-24-2012, 07:27 AM
When I read the thread title, I thought it might be about Michael Chabon's introduction to McSweeney's Mammoth Treasury of Thrilling Tales.

But, yes, those posts on that other website are annoying. There's some truth to some of them, but also gross exaggerations. (The lengthy rant by Rebecca H., in particular. That one, I simply don't believe is factually true.)

ETA: Ah; didn't take long to find what Rebecca H./ladyinpink was talking about: Immortal Ink Publishing (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240635). I'd say she has a rather biased view of what happened there. (And a different version of what "bestselling novel" means than most of us.)

Susan Littlefield
12-24-2012, 08:14 AM
My view?

Who cares. Just because a bunch of people are having a conversation about how awful AW and it's leaders are does not mean AW and its leaders are awful. It's all about perception and perception in numbers validates. Talking trash about other people and places makes people feel better about themselves.

You can't please the world. I personally like the strong boundaries at this forum. I've been to forums where there are no moderators, or those that moderated did so poorly, and the place was chaos.

benbradley
12-24-2012, 08:38 AM
I haven't looked, I'm just asking, but how does PAMB rate on that site?

Manuel Royal
12-24-2012, 08:43 AM
I haven't looked, I'm just asking, but how does PAMB rate on that site?One star; "Not Recommended".

benbradley
12-24-2012, 08:44 AM
Try not to let it get to you. I realise that's not easy, because you care about this community. But responding in the way you're suggesting is not necessary. Have you heard of 'the author's big mistake'? It is a similar situation to that. Don't respond to a bad review.
Yes, this is "The Poster's Big Mistake."


My view?

Who cares. Just because a bunch of people are having a conversation about how awful AW and it's leaders are does not mean AW and its leaders are awful. It's all about perception and perception in numbers validates. Talking trash about other people and places makes people feel better about themselves.
ANd if they have to do that, they feel pretty bad about themselves.

You can't please the world. I personally like the strong boundaries at this forum. I've been to forums where there are no moderators, or those that moderated did so poorly, and the place was chaos.
It doesn't feel like strong boundaries, it feels like APPROPRIATE boundaries. Many other sites have "strong" boundaries but they are inappropriate for one reason or another, and that can make it worse than no boundaries at all, as in Usenet newsgroups, some of which are a lot better than many "moderated" forums.

Susan Littlefield
12-24-2012, 09:18 AM
ANd if they have to do that, they feel pretty bad about themselves.

Yep.


It doesn't feel like strong boundaries, it feels like APPROPRIATE boundaries. Many other sites have "strong" boundaries but they are inappropriate for one reason or another, and that can make it worse than no boundaries at all, as in Usenet newsgroups, some of which are a lot better than many "moderated" forums.

Same difference to me; strong boundaries in the sense I mean it here are appropriate. :)

OhTheHorror
12-24-2012, 10:25 AM
sitejabber.com/reviews/www.absolutewrite.com:rolleyes:

jjdebenedictis
12-24-2012, 12:15 PM
Okay, I had to stop reading that because it was making me angry. AW is great!

But there's only 23 reviews over there (some of them recent, and positive, given the rating's rise over the past few hours), and how many thousands of users are here and apparently pretty happy?

No need to tilt at that particular windmill.

Old Hack
12-24-2012, 12:44 PM
There are loads of places where AW is criticised. If you try to respond to them all you're going to be very busy.

If AW really were as bad as such places suggest it wouldn't have anything like the number of active, successful members it has.

AW can't please everyone, all the time. It isn't a good fit for everyone, and they're entitled to express their opinions, no matter how much we disagree with them.

I ignore such reviews, and focus instead on doing what I can to make AW the vibrant, positive place that it is.

OhTheHorror
12-24-2012, 01:07 PM
ETA: Ah; didn't take long to find what Rebecca H./ladyinpink was talking about: Immortal Ink Publishing (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240635). I'd say she has a rather biased view of what happened there. (And a different version of what "bestselling novel" means than most of us.)

Just finished reading the IIP thread, and yeesh!

Mharvey
12-24-2012, 07:27 PM
There are loads of places where AW is criticised. If you try to respond to them all you're going to be very busy.

If AW really were as bad as such places suggest it wouldn't have anything like the number of active, successful members it has.

AW can't please everyone, all the time. It isn't a good fit for everyone, and they're entitled to express their opinions, no matter how much we disagree with them.

I ignore such reviews, and focus instead on doing what I can to make AW the vibrant, positive place that it is.

I agree, but rating AW on the one that appears on the first page of Google, just beneath the site, seemed worthwhile to me. Folks who'd otherwise be good contributors might decide to give AW a pass, based on the low rating it received on such a popular site.

And yeah, that Immortal Ink thread was just painful.

leahzero
12-24-2012, 08:12 PM
From an armchair psychology standpoint, I think it'd be better to let the jilted banned members have their hate-thread without responding. Then it's a site with umpteen-thousand active members vs. a dozen complainers, and it's pretty clear what the deal is.

elindsen
12-24-2012, 08:18 PM
People suck. That's all there's to it.

G. Applejack
12-24-2012, 08:26 PM
Maybe I have an off sense of humor, but I got a good laugh out of the person who claims "They" at AW sent someone to give a 1 star review of her book. Yeah. Sure, that was why you got a 1 star. *wink*

Medievalist
12-24-2012, 08:27 PM
Honestly, please don't sweat it. People don't like being banned. Well, most people. Some people like it so much they keep creating new accounts so they can be banned again. (Hi GrayLensman!)

If you want to counteract malice, write a blog post on your own site, or welcome some new members, and help them find their "favorite" AW forum.

In the meantime, have a fabulous holiday and all manner of good things in 2013.

Ari Meermans
12-24-2012, 08:34 PM
You know, I don't think I ever mentioned how I found AW. I googled writers' forums and got quite a hit list. It just so happened while I was exploring forums from that list, a literary agent whose blog I follow recommended AbsoluteWrite in a blog post (and in several since, btw). I checked AW out. I ended my search.

It seems to me the opinion of even one well-respected literary agent—and I'm sure there are more—thoroughly trumps site "reviews" of the disgruntled, the disaffected, and predators. And, being listed in Writer's Digest's 101 Best Sites for Writers (http://www.writersdigest.com/wp-content/uploads/101Sites_2012.pdf) ain't nuthin' to sneeze at, none neither. :D

The discriminating person will always weigh sources of information. "Reviews" such as those mentioned in the OP are meaningless and don't deserve notice. Seriously. They don't.

MacAllister
12-24-2012, 08:42 PM
You know, I don't think I ever mentioned how I found AW. I googled writers' forums and got quite a hit list. It just so happened while I was exploring forums from that list, a literary agent whose blog I follow recommended AbsoluteWrite in a blog post (and in several since, btw). I checked AW out. I ended my search.

It seems to me the opinion of even one well-respected literary agent—and I'm sure there are more—thoroughly trumps site "reviews" of the disgruntled, the disaffected, and predators. And, being listed in Writer's Digest's 101 Best Sites for Writers (http://www.writersdigest.com/wp-content/uploads/101Sites_2012.pdf) ain't nuthin' to sneeze at, none neither. :D

The discriminating person will always weigh sources of information. "Reviews" such as those mentioned in the OP are meaningless and don't deserve notice. Seriously. They don't.

It's all true.

But MHarvey still goes on my AW-members-who-give-me-extra-special-warm-and-snuggly-feelings list.

AW Admin
12-24-2012, 08:48 PM
I'm going to break the link to the site, because right now, the site is getting Google Juice from being linked here.

And that just makes my head hurt.

Old Hack
12-24-2012, 09:28 PM
And, being listed in Writer's Digest's 101 Best Sites for Writers (http://www.writersdigest.com/wp-content/uploads/101Sites_2012.pdf) ain't nuthin' to sneeze at, none neither. :D

I just took a look at that listing and was somewhat surprised to find my own website included. I haven't blogged for months, either. How very nice of them to put me into the list!

Bufty
12-24-2012, 09:47 PM
I'm no technofobe, and am not sure what you mean by 'break the link', but I just used the link in post#1 and it worked.


I'm going to break the link to the site, because right now, the site is getting Google Juice from being linked here.

And that just makes my head hurt.

Alessandra Kelley
12-24-2012, 10:52 PM
I actually found Absolute Write because of snarky comments about it on another site.

In early 2011 I was hanging around the Kindleboards website, which is a pretty good site for readers of Kindle books. It has sections for writers as well, but those seemed more interested in discussing sales than techniques of writing.

I had occasionally spotted AW mentioned in those writers' threads as a dark and meanypoops place. But then someone made a post that made Absolute Write sound as if Oscar Wilde was hanging around here with Dorothy Parker and Stephen Fry waiting to pounce and make erudite, withering bons mots about unsatisfactory writers. Or words to that effect.

Who could resist?

And then of course AW turned out to be completely different than presented, a lot more open, a lot more useful, and a lot more friendly.

benbradley
12-24-2012, 11:38 PM
Don't forget the boo-birds and flying monkeys.

Richard White
12-25-2012, 01:58 AM
and jealous toady-bugs

Susan Littlefield
12-25-2012, 02:11 AM
I agree, but rating AW on the one that appears on the first page of Google, just beneath the site, seemed worthwhile to me. Folks who'd otherwise be good contributors might decide to give AW a pass, based on the low rating it received on such a popular site.

And yeah, that Immortal Ink thread was just painful.

Or, they just might hop right in to see if those "awful" reviews are right or not. :D

swvaughn
12-25-2012, 08:05 AM
Don't forget the boo-birds and flying monkeys.


and jealous toady-bugs

And PHENTERMINE!

...oh, my. I'm old...

James D. Macdonald
12-25-2012, 08:37 AM
swvaughn (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/member.php?u=7718)
Is mighty mean
To raise the ghost
Of Phentermine!

swvaughn
12-25-2012, 09:05 AM
LOL At least I didn't resurrect the thread. I do visit it from time to time, though. :D

Old Hack
12-25-2012, 11:41 AM
PHENTERMINE. Happy days. (I'm old too.)

BardSkye
12-25-2012, 10:30 PM
Everyone should visit the PHENTERMINE thread at least once.

BenPanced
12-25-2012, 10:39 PM
Don't forget the boo-birds and flying monkeys.


and jealous toady-bugs


And PHENTERMINE!
weer awl jelose loosers drugged out on PHENTERMINE.

Silver-Midnight
12-25-2012, 11:49 PM
Try not to let it get to you. I realise that's not easy, because you care about this community. But responding in the way you're suggesting is not necessary. Have you heard of 'the author's big mistake'? It is a similar situation to that. Don't respond to a bad review.

AW can't be all things to all people, and it doesn't try to be. It is what the members make it, and overall it's a great place that helps a lot of people. But sometimes it doesn't suit some people, and that's okay, because there are lots of other places that might be a great fit for them.

That you want to defend AW is very kind. Try to let it go.


Agree with this. The best thing to do would be to let it go.

rugcat
12-26-2012, 02:24 AM
Honestly, please don't sweat it. People don't like being banned. Well, most people. Some people like it so much they keep creating new accounts so they can be banned again. (Hi That one went right by me. I thought it was just another visitor to P&CE with a particular ideological bent.

Filigree
12-26-2012, 02:46 AM
Not when they use the same phrases and writing styles. They could try a little harder, but the Unabomber didn't, either.

I'd say let it go. You cannot reach the speshul snowflakes when they're in their Fortress of Solicitude, and all you'll do is rile them up.

Cyia
12-26-2012, 03:08 AM
Here. I'll save you all the trouble of finding the link:


It's the worstest place evah!!!! But I'm angry they won't let me stay!!!!

They are stupid!!! But I'm upset they don't like my ideas!!!

They don't include anyone!!! But there's so many of "them."

lastlittlebird
12-26-2012, 03:20 AM
I couldn't help it. I left a reply to a review.
Because I'm not good at processing my feelings.
And their faulty logic was like bamboo splinters under my fingernails.
But I won't look again. Best to keep out of temptation's way.

buz
12-26-2012, 03:20 AM
Everyone should visit the PHENTERMINE thread at least once.

?

{Does a search for PHENTERMINE}

Oh

my

God. :ROFL:

There's so much I just don't know...

Unimportant
12-26-2012, 03:33 AM
::follow's Buz's example and searches for the thread::

Wow. Y'all have been having way too much fun without telling me!