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Calliea
12-23-2012, 05:53 PM
I've been wondering about this every now and then and I talked to two guys about the topic, but I wonder if I could maybe have some more people give me their opinions so my sample was bigger :D

Statement: It is a very popular belief/wanted pattern than men should be manly.

What guys said: Women like manly men.

a) Now my question is: in reality, when it comes to said manliness are men trying to impress women or - alike the fair sex does with their beauty - the other men? If they grow a macho beard and pretend to see 8 colors only, is this to look good in the eyes of women or men or simply their own selves?

b) Girls: what is your actual preferrence: manly man with beard, a beautiful man or do you appreciate both depending on the specimen?

http://sanfranciscoba.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/james-bond1.jpg

or

http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/3400000/I-am-Don-Juan-DeMarco-don-juan-demarco-3447407-800-600.jpg

or both

(just manliness-wise)

~~

I started wondering again this time after arguing with my (male) friends on League :D

I called this: http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120201041324/leagueoflegends/images/3/3e/Malzahar_OriginalSkin.jpg

better than

http://riot-web-static.s3.amazonaws.com/images/news/October_2011/2011.10.11%20Graves%20Reveal/Graves03.jpg

And hell hath no fury like a men's outrage :D

How about you? Any opinions? Any tomatoes to throw at my face? :D

crunchyblanket
12-23-2012, 06:03 PM
What is manliness, anyway? Are we talking about the masculine stereotypes - dominance, aggression, unwillingness to talk about feelings or express emotion, being the provider/breadwinner, being physically stronger? Because it seems to me that the very concept of 'manliness' is so vague as to be meaningless.

Further: are we talking looks, personality or both? Because I'd take Cillian Murphy above either of your examples, and he's not 'traditionally' masculine-looking (even when he grows a beard.)

Personally, I have no interest in stereotypes of masculinity, or in restrictive ideas of how genders ought to behave/think/feel. But then, I'm a very unfeminine woman.

Cella
12-23-2012, 06:23 PM
Lots of thing evoke notions of masculine to me. Some traits are physical but many more are behavior-driven. As far as what I find appealing in a person (man or woman), their personality/sense of humor is definitely the greatest component. Whether or not they themselves are ascribing to societal norms probably doesn't cross a man's mind on a very conscience level any more or less than it does a woman's, IMO.

I was putting on makeup prior to a formal wedding one time, while the rest of my family was over. I was applying it the dining room table because of the crowd, and after some time of observing me, my older brother commented, "It's funny how women do all this to impress each other." The insight stuck with me because my husband prefers me not to wear much makeup, if any, and yet...



:)

scribofelidae
12-23-2012, 06:39 PM
Not a fan of beards in a particular, but … it depends. I can appreciate what's attractive in a person, but so much of what pushes my buttons depends more on how they move, how they talk, how they think.

Re: beards and their general lack, probably why I'm a Kili fan at the moment. :)

Mr Flibble
12-23-2012, 06:45 PM
Any guy who has to 'prove' his manliness has, imo, failed somewhat....

A manly man is one who is competent and confident but not crowing about it, and accepts other people's competence and confidence. Super muscles/beard not required. (Nice bonus perhaps) I was actually talking last night with my hubby about this, and nominated the ideal manly man who doesn't need to prove it: Hicks from Aliens.

Attitude is more manly than muscles or beard or lack thereof.

PS: Can I tag team both of your examples? :D

leahzero
12-23-2012, 07:11 PM
:Wha:

Calliea
12-23-2012, 08:03 PM
In this particular case the question is more about the very general impression of a guy - looks, the way he dresses or moves. Perspectives change a ton when we get to know someone but that's impossible to judge based on photos or even pictures of fictional characters :)

Maze Runner
12-23-2012, 08:26 PM
I'd say the minute a man does anything for the sole purpose of being perceived by either women or men as manly, is the minute that his manliness is questionable.

Most men I know who've grown a big beard have done so in the hope that they may be able to tolerate their faces.

IAMWRITER
12-23-2012, 08:29 PM
For me it depends. But I love a man with a beard.

See... http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=wwe+sheamus+beard&um=1&hl=en&tbo=d&biw=1366&bih=600&tbm=isch&tbnid=ztv4PrmhTebDoM:&imgrefurl=http://seattle.sbnation.com/2012/3/1/2835946/wrestlemania-28-guide-primer-cm-punk-chris-jericho-the-rock-hhh-undertaker-john-cena&docid=oBkQVb_-tLy6DM&imgurl=http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/999049/bio-sheamus2.jpg&w=686&h=384&ei=WTDXUKxFqdLRBfrzgfgC&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=2&vpy=129&dur=4123&hovh=168&hovw=300&tx=167&ty=74&sig=104165267981167203428&page=1&tbnh=121&tbnw=211&start=0&ndsp=23&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:85
OR ...http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=david+beckham+beard&num=10&hl=en&sa=X&tbo=d&biw=1366&bih=600&tbm=isch&tbnid=qHiGEApQ2UX8fM:&imgrefurl=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/picturegalleries/6336890/David-Beckhams-beard-plus-his-hairstyles-and-fashion-changes-through-the-years.html%3Fimage%3D26&docid=3oLW3DkkUrJiyM&imgurl=http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01502/20091014-beard_1502739i.jpg&w=620&h=400&ei=CjHXUIXBC9SM0wXfi4BI&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=1043&vpy=166&dur=2018&hovh=180&hovw=280&tx=101&ty=52&sig=104165267981167203428&page=1&tbnh=135&tbnw=210&start=0&ndsp=27&ved=1t:429,r:8,s:0,i:175

Either one for Christmas please! *leaves to search google for more pictures*

scribofelidae
12-23-2012, 08:35 PM
I'd say the minute a man does anything for the sole purpose of being perceived by either women or men as manly, is the minute that his manliness is questionable.


Exactly. Gender performance is not the point of the thing. And if the goal is finding a partner, then hiding what you need to be showing is going to attract the wrong one.

Maze Runner
12-23-2012, 08:47 PM
Exactly. Gender performance is not the point of the thing. And if the goal is finding a partner, then hiding what you need to be showing is going to attract the wrong one.

I mean, inherent in any "act" is a self perceived void or inadequacy. The same may be true of women who alter themselves to suit men. Either way, I think it's very unattractive. Falseness always is.

Ambrosia
12-23-2012, 08:50 PM
The first three images are a yes for me. All three. The last one--the dude with the gun--no. I can see how he might seem a stereotypical masculine image, but just--no. Ugly, in my opinion.

Xelebes
12-23-2012, 10:30 PM
Most men I know who've grown a big beard have done so in the hope that they may be able to tolerate their faces.

Yep. This is why I do it.

rhymegirl
12-23-2012, 10:40 PM
I like all kinds of men.

Intelligence appeals to me so the guy who plays Spencer Reid on Criminal Minds is appealing to me. (Matthew Gray Gubler) I also find him very sweet and kind, as well as attractive.

But I also like the bearded look, such as the way Viggo Mortensen looked as Aragorn in The Lord of the Rings.

My husband looks good with a beard so I usually encourage him to keep it. But if he wants to shave it off that's his choice.

scribofelidae
12-23-2012, 11:19 PM
I mean, inherent in any "act" is a self perceived void or inadequacy. The same may be true of women who alter themselves to suit men. Either way, I think it's very unattractive. Falseness always is.

Agreed.

Also, ditto to Ambrosia's comments on the gun fella.

Stubbly works. Big beards make me wonder what's under 'em. Speaking of which, has anyone else seen the documentary Mansome? It was interesting, but they tended to get really off track. The whole section on beards, and the fellow treating bearding as a sport. That that was odd. :Wha:

Dreity
12-23-2012, 11:52 PM
I'm not too crazy about facial hair, generally speaking. That said, my husband has a goatee and I think it looks great on him. I'm pretty sure the main reason he likes it is because without it he thinks he has too much of a baby face.

I've honestly never looked at the League champions in that way, but if I had to choose I'd say Vladimir is the sexiest, post-portrait redo anyway. Something about that smirk. :e2brows: Looks are negotiable, but my men must have both a streak of inner darkness and the ability to make good puns, which basically means Vlad is my perfect fantasy man. :P

Vito
12-24-2012, 12:47 AM
Now that I'm squarely and securely in the middle-aged demographic group, I've come to appreciate the many non-masculine talents and qualities that I've developed through the years. I can fit any -- I repeat ANY -- number of dishes, pots & pans, utensils, you name it -- into a single dishwasher load. A feminine skill, I know, but one that I'm quite proud of.

I'm also very handy at coupons, even though I keep 'em in my back pocket or in my wallet instead of one of those fancy "coupon keeper" thingies that old ladies always whip out when they're waiting in the supermarket line.

One thing I've noticed is that my so-called feminine side seems to be maturing in a matronly Martha Stewart-ish direction, rather than, say, a Kardashian-like "party girl" configuration. (Further proof: my cat eats more than I do, and I'm on a first-name basis with the cashiers at my local Dollar Tree stores).

On top of it all I have a beard, but I keep it reasonably trim and tidy. Martha would want it that way...

Ken
12-24-2012, 02:36 AM
... dress the way that's required. That goes for grooming too. If I had any personal preference, I've long since forgotten it.

jjdebenedictis
12-24-2012, 03:03 AM
I was thinking about something similar to this today. I've never much liked romance novels, and I started to wonder if it's because so many romances have a carefully crafted Alpha Male as the love interest. Y'see, my kneejerk reaction to Alpha Male characters is to wonder why the heroine is even interested in that bag full of dicks. Controlling, arrogant jerks just grate on me.

I like a guy who can be my best friend, with all the equality, good humour and mutual respect that entails. Physically, I prefer the tall, slim, boyish look to a big burly guy, but I'm pretty flexible in those tastes--if I'm in love with him, the person inside that skull, then the physical attraction follows.

Merrit
12-24-2012, 03:25 AM
As far as manliness goes for me having a penis is manly. While aggressive behavior, and inability to discuss emotions etc... is Machismo. I am not a huge fan of machismo, or facial hair for that matter. I am not a fan of chest hair.
In the opposite case, I am not a fan of female characters who act helpless or whiny. I do not like them model thin and well endowed either ( which I see often unfortunately).
I prefer them to be more real and less of the stereotypical beauty or brawn.

Mr Flibble
12-24-2012, 03:40 AM
I was thinking about something similar to this today. I've never much liked romance novels, and I started to wonder if it's because so many romances have a carefully crafted Alpha Male as the love interest. Y'see, my kneejerk reaction to Alpha Male characters is to wonder why the heroine is even interested in that bag full of dicks. Controlling, arrogant jerks just grate on me.

Hell yes.
I have to say I don't have a physical type (as in slender, muscly, whatever, as long as they aren't really extreme one way or another).

But I am a sucker for a guy with long hair (in fact the only guy I ever dated who didn't have long hair was the guy in the army. But if he'd not been in there, he'd have had long hair...). Other than that, it's the eyes. Not the colour just....gotta have nice eyes. That's what I notice first. Physical shape comes later.

Real men aren't afraid to have long hair :)

LadyV
12-24-2012, 04:13 AM
Pierce Brosnan! :heart: I used to have such a thing for him.

I tend to gravitate toward the manly type, sans beard, or somewhere in between. Baby-faced pretty boys just don't it for me. But regardless of appearance, macho-ism is ugly.

backslashbaby
12-24-2012, 08:29 AM
I like any appearance except for an arrogant smirk (unless he's on the runway).

I tend to prefer folks who put their own spin on things (even a little bit), but Lord knows I've dated guys who wouldn't deviate an inch from what their peers were wearing.

It's just not about looks, although they are great for self-expression sometimes. And sometimes a guy is just exceptionally attractive to me, but that never matters. It's the packaging; that's all :) I like a lot of different wrappings!

Liralen
12-24-2012, 09:46 AM
Pierce Brosnan was always a bit effeminate for my taste, especially his voice.

But then, I'm the girl who, no matter how many times or how many versions of Beauty and the Beast she reads, I'm always disappointed when the Beast turns into another sillydamn prince.

Jehhillenberg
12-24-2012, 10:01 AM
Since physical is what instantly catches the eye, gotta admit I'm partial to [kempt] facial hair. I love hair, period. Facial hair is a turn-on, not a necessity. For me, it just adds something...and now that I think, it may be an underlying biological attraction to "manliness." :Shrug: Deep voice? Yes, please. Height is pretty much a given, since I'm a tall chick.

But attitude and personality is the make-or-break. Confidence without conceit.


The example: Pierce Brosnan is handsome. :) <3 him.

BigWords
12-24-2012, 10:04 AM
Real men aren't afraid to have long hair :)

:popcorn:

Shadow_Ferret
12-24-2012, 10:05 AM
I have no idea what is meant by manliness.

But... 8 colors? There are that many?

BeatrixKiddo
12-24-2012, 10:26 AM
There's a funny documentary I saw recently that you might enjoy called Mansome. It was done by the same guy who did Super Size Me. In Mansome, he talks about his own grooming practices, etc. But the rest of the movie is mostly about what other guys do (some famous, some not). Manscaping, etc, is a newer term used.

Personally, I'm one of those weird girls that likes extra hairy on a guy. But I guess more guys are shaving more areas, more these days, to appeal to modern women. I say a man should only shave what he truly wants to shave, and then leave the rest alone.

BenPanced
12-24-2012, 10:52 AM
Oh, yeah, this is going to end in tears...

Jehhillenberg
12-24-2012, 11:02 AM
There's a funny documentary I saw recently that you might enjoy called Mansome. It was done by the same guy who did Super Size Me. In Mansome, he talks about his own grooming practices, etc. But the rest of the movie is mostly about what other guys do (some famous, some not). Manscaping, etc, is a newer term used.

Personally, I'm one of those weird girls that likes extra hairy on a guy. But I guess more guys are shaving more areas, more these days, to appeal to modern women. I say a man should only shave what he truly wants to shave, and then leave the rest alone.

http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/misc/smiley-vault-misc-128.gif (http://www.smileyvault.com/)

This.

Liralen
12-24-2012, 11:05 AM
Oh, yeah, this is going to end in tears...

Only if you wax ;)

BigWords
12-24-2012, 11:18 AM
Girls like the caveman look.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-9Ly4lsWhP0U/T9B75zs-qII/AAAAAAAAANI/R2MTOTnk7IA/s512/butterfly1.png

jjdebenedictis
12-24-2012, 12:35 PM
I love long hair on a guy too. That combination of soft, flowing hair and the harder, squarer features of a man? Mmm-hmm.

I strongly prefer he let his hair grow out south of the border, too. The aesthetic appeal of a scrotum is not improved by increased visibility.

LadyV
12-24-2012, 05:56 PM
The aesthetic appeal of a scrotum is not improved by increased visibility.
:ROFL:

Oh, I did forget to mention that I have a thing for guys with a thick head of hair. Don't ask we why though.

Ambrosia
12-24-2012, 06:38 PM
Hell yes.
I have to say I don't have a physical type (as in slender, muscly, whatever, as long as they aren't really extreme one way or another).

But I am a sucker for a guy with long hair (in fact the only guy I ever dated who didn't have long hair was the guy in the army. But if he'd not been in there, he'd have had long hair...). Other than that, it's the eyes. Not the colour just....gotta have nice eyes. That's what I notice first. Physical shape comes later.

Real men aren't afraid to have long hair :)
omg yes!

I like beards if it fits the face, too. Some men shouldn't wear beards. Some men shouldn't be without them. ;)

And the eyes. Long eyelashes and I literally melt! :D

Throw in a guitar and you've got me. ;)


I have no idea what is meant by manliness.

But... 8 colors? There are that many?
:ROFL:

Calliea
12-24-2012, 06:51 PM
Haha, some of your replies guys cracked me up :D

Merry Christmas everyone by the way! I can't seem to find the official wishes topic, so I'll be hip and do it here.


I'm not too crazy about facial hair, generally speaking. That said, my husband has a goatee and I think it looks great on him. I'm pretty sure the main reason he likes it is because without it he thinks he has too much of a baby face.

I've honestly never looked at the League champions in that way, but if I had to choose I'd say Vladimir is the sexiest, post-portrait redo anyway. Something about that smirk. :e2brows: Looks are negotiable, but my men must have both a streak of inner darkness and the ability to make good puns, which basically means Vlad is my perfect fantasy man. :P

Hahahaha. You have NO idea how many times my friends whined Vlad looks girly after the remake :D I have named my mastery pages for him to contradict their beef. HE IS HOT. Period. I'm a girl so my Vlad-man judgement is more valid, of course. And yes, his pun joke is my favorite in game. Well, after Koggy.

~~

And of course long hair are manly. The manliest and beardest of men had long hair so everyone who says otherwise should take a look at cavemen or some vikings :D

seun
12-24-2012, 08:14 PM
I have grown my winter beard. :e2brows:

Sadly, it's the only hair on my head.

cray
12-24-2012, 08:41 PM
I have grown my winter beard. :e2brows:

Sadly, it's the only hair on my head.


don't forget the stuff growing out of your ears.

Ambrosia
12-24-2012, 08:44 PM
don't forget the stuff growing out of your ears.
You know, when my husband and I were together he used to make me pluck his ear hairs. I did it out of love, but it was gross.

Just sayin'.

BigWords
12-24-2012, 09:26 PM
don't forget the stuff growing out of your ears.

Ear hair is cool. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/05/health_guinness_medical_record_breakers/img/1.jpg)

Paperback Writer
12-24-2012, 09:31 PM
Does anyone like boyish looks anymore? I need to get scruffy

backslashbaby
12-24-2012, 11:07 PM
Boyish is wonderful! I'm embarrassed by how fast boyish good looks can turn my head, because I'm above all that shallow stuff, you know :D

Early Leonardo, anyone? Aesthetically, it's just not the same with him trying to scruff up so much. It's not age, either. Please, guys, don't you all scruff up. I like a scruffy guy, but I like boyish, wicked charming looks, too. It's kind of like ice cream flavors ;) :D

Dreity
12-25-2012, 04:47 AM
Hahahaha. You have NO idea how many times my friends whined Vlad looks girly after the remake :D I have named my mastery pages for him to contradict their beef. HE IS HOT. Period. I'm a girl so my Vlad-man judgement is more valid, of course. And yes, his pun joke is my favorite in game. Well, after Koggy.


My husband thought his hair was doofy before, so the new look is an improvement in his eyes. You can tell your friends it's not just us girls with superior judgement! :P

He also reminds us of a lot of our favorite anime villains and anti-heroes now, so that could be another reason. Hubby openly admits to having a man-crush on Haji from Blood+. The saving grace of an otherwise mediocre series...

Koggers is our mutual favorite champ for emotes in general. :D

ladyleeona
12-25-2012, 07:19 AM
omg yes!

I like beards if it fits the face, too. Some men shouldn't wear beards. Some men shouldn't be without them. ;)

And the eyes. Long eyelashes and I literally melt! :D

Throw in a guitar and you've got me. ;)


:ROFL:

:Guitar:Guilty as charged :evil.

As far as hair, I'm weird in that I like it really short (think military cut) or really long. Head hair only, not ear hair. Or nose hair, for that matter. :Wha: :scared:Facial hair is good for some, not good for others. Whatever works, I guess.

On the OP's topic: Ol' Pierce and his particular look does nothing for me. Also, ninjas are way cooler than Rambos. :)

Manliness to me is confidence without bravado, regardless of the muscle or facial hair or manscaping situation.

Liralen
12-25-2012, 10:59 AM
I strongly prefer he let his hair grow out south of the border, too. The aesthetic appeal of a scrotum is not improved by increased visibility.

But then there's the involuntary flossing situation . . . although stubble's not great either.

Ken
12-25-2012, 04:32 PM
... confidence is fine, in both men and women. A lack of it isn't so horrible though. Some very nice people don't have much to speak of. And it's kind of a shame they're not valued more. They can make for good relationships too.

_Sian_
12-25-2012, 05:47 PM
A guy is manly when he can assert his opinion, admit he's wrong about it, and not put anyone down in the process. At least that's it for me.

As for what I personally find attractive - general health and well being, no smoking, all the teeth intact, and I'm a sucker for long hair and intelligence. Someone I can share things with, and looks clean and healthy. And so far the general patten has been for them to be at least three years older than me.

SomethingOrOther
12-25-2012, 05:54 PM
Boyish is wonderful! I'm embarrassed by how fast boyish good looks can turn my head, because I'm above all that shallow stuff, you know :D

Early Leonardo, anyone? Aesthetically, it's just not the same with him trying to scruff up so much. It's not age, either. Please, guys, don't you all scruff up. I like a scruffy guy, but I like boyish, wicked charming looks, too. It's kind of like ice cream flavors ;) :D

I like this post. :D

KellyAssauer
12-27-2012, 01:47 AM
Beard, no beard :Shrug:
personal pref is clean shaven,
but more importantly...
Do they look good in a suit?
Do they have more than one suit?
Do they sometimes wear them to work...

:D

That turns my head...

kkbe
12-27-2012, 04:59 PM
Screw the suit. Beards are good if well-maintained. Nice smile, good teeth. Confident. Intelligent. Funny. Kind to mother and sisters. Supports women's rights. Generally easy-going. Well read. Great communicator. Varied interests. Nice lips and now I'd better stop, right now.

:)

Jehhillenberg
12-28-2012, 12:43 AM
:) Oh God :e2thud: I'm floored, kkbe! Look what you've done! :D

Suits are always nice. Very nice.

fireluxlou
12-28-2012, 01:15 AM
A man who will always have my heart is Joaquin Phoenix. But my love interests irl have been of either gender and none of them have really been alike in aesthetics or personality. I don't like the concept of man or manliness though, because it makes me think 'woman and womanliness' and silly standards placed upon what it means to be a woman, to look like one, then makes me think we have to conform to certain gender norms and blah. The only trait I really look for in a man is a man, who doesn't cheat on me,'We accept the love we think we deserve' I suppose.