Looking for a copy-editor

iwannabepublished

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I have a three book series totaling about 280,000 words that I feel needs the help of a good copy-editor to check for spelling, grammar and punctuation issues. Obviously, any additional comments would be welcome. Previously, I sent a few samples out to suggested editors and found two that were acceptable to me. I picked one, who promised to to do a thorough edit and then a second 'polishing' pass. The estimated time for all three books was 10 to 12 weeks. It has now been more than 3 months and I have yet to receive the 'polishing' edit on the first book. I told that editor that I was very unhappy with her inability to maintain her own schedule. I won't sever my relationship with the first until I have a firm commitment from someone else. I attempted to contact the second editor but have not heard back in almost a week. Both editors offered a 3 book deal for around $1,000. Each offered the '2-pass' procedure.

If anyone can recommend someone, I'd really appreciate the information.
 

FabricatedParadise

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280,000 words for a thousand bucks?

That's a bargain-basement rate.

This is truly a very low price, and I would be concerned about the quality of edits you may or may not receive.

Most editors charge at least $.01 per word for a proof read. Some do offer flat-fee pricing for higher word counts. But, even a flat fee could run you double what these editors quoted you. Mine would.

Another thing you need to consider, if you're hoping for comments and notes beyond proofing, is whether or not the editor you choose has knowledge of/ experience in your specific genre. If he or she isn't knowledgeable, you could receive notes that will work against you.
 

iwannabepublished

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This is truly a very low price, and I would be concerned about the quality of edits you may or may not receive.

Most editors charge at least $.01 per word for a proof read. Some do offer flat-fee pricing for higher word counts. But, even a flat fee could run you double what these editors quoted you. Mine would.

Another thing you need to consider, if you're hoping for comments and notes beyond proofing, is whether or not the editor you choose has knowledge of/ experience in your specific genre. If he or she isn't knowledgeable, you could receive notes that will work against you.

Thanks for the feedback. Based on what the two editors I mentioned did with my sample, I was happy with their work. While I am not specifically looking for general comments on my work any I received would be gladly received. By the way, the genre of my stories is action/adventure.
 

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Most of the self published books I've seen have required the attentions of a good editor.

Most also have had problems which could have been resolved by a good copy editor.

I find the books which require just copy editing a far more satisfying read than those which require structural editing.

Just a thought.
 

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280,000 words for a thousand bucks?

That's a bargain-basement rate.

Exactly what I was thinking. Having done a lot of research on editors and worked with three different editors on just one book (yes, I did go overboard but no regrets, I'm just broke) I would be concerned about the standard of editing.

Then again, you said you were happy with the sample so let's hope everything works out for you. If not, it will simply be something to learn from and move on.

There are very competent and reasonably-priced (by industry standards) copy editors on AW, by the way.

All the best!
 

Jamesaritchie

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Perhaps that's true. However, both editors commented that based on the sample provided they did not see any significant errors. Maybe that is part of the reason for the low price.

This bothers me, too. At what point do you get a firm quote that isn't based on what the editor might see later?

I don't think $1,000 is terribly low, if all you want is someone to fix grammar and punctuation, but if you want anything at all beyond simple grammar and punctuation, the price should be at least double what you're paying, and would still be a bargain.
 

thothguard51

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Just remember, you get what you pay for...

You might think 1,000 is a deal but when you break it down to 3 books, that $333 a book and to me, that says the editors are not in the professional realm of editing. I could be wrong on this, but the price almost always says I am not...
 

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Freelance copyeditor weighing in:

I do indeed think $1k is :eek: low for three books/280K words. My years of skill and experience (and track record) are worth quite a bit more than $0.0036 per word. Even to check "only grammar and punctuation."

"Only"? :gaah

You definitely get what you pay for.
 

Maryn

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Amen. I know a man online who is not a native English speaker. He shopped around for an 'editor,' and I use the term loosely, to correct punctuation and grammar only, and to mark any awkwardness in his English. He paid over a thousand dollars for an 80 page screenplay.

The editor introduced errors by 'correcting' what was already okay and overlooked other grievous mistakes.

Maryn, thinking price is not the deciding factor where skills are needed
 

blacbird

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I can recommend someone:

You.

Matters of spelling, grammar and punctuation aren't the stuff that requires Stephen Hawking's intellect. You'll become a much better writer if you spend the time necessary to master these things on your own. Your word-processor's spelling and grammar checkers aren't perfect, but they most certainly do help. And there are abundant free resources available on-line, notably the Purdue OWL.

Depending on somebody else to do this simple elbow-grease work is both a needless expense and an excuse for laziness.

caw
 

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I can recommend someone:

You.

Matters of spelling, grammar and punctuation aren't the stuff that requires Stephen Hawking's intellect. You'll become a much better writer if you spend the time necessary to master these things on your own. Your word-processor's spelling and grammar checkers aren't perfect, but they most certainly do help. And there are abundant free resources available on-line, notably the Purdue OWL.

Depending on somebody else to do this simple elbow-grease work is both a needless expense and an excuse for laziness.

caw

Blac, you've just dismissed the skill and talent of several of our members.

Copy editing isn't "simple elbow-grease work", it's a very specific skill. Very few people have the ability to do it well. If it were as easy as you suggest, would publishers spend real money on copy editors?

I agree that it's advisable for writers to understand about grammar and punctuation and spelling, and to get them all as right as they can: but that doesn't mean that we can all copy edit our own work effectively. There's a lot more to copy editing than checking grammar and spelling. And as for online resources: they don't do the job. Not at all.
 

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Copy editing isn't "simple elbow-grease work", it's a very specific skill. Very few people have the ability to do it well. If it were as easy as you suggest, would publishers spend real money on copy editors?

Very, very true.

After sending what I thought was a truly polished manuscript - the one on which I spent thousands of dollars with 3 editors - to my publisher, I was surprised to find how many little errors his own copy editor picked up. Her skill is in all the finer details that my other editors may have but were not paid to use.

You'll be amazed at how much a copy editor can pick up, or add to your manuscript, in areas that you might believe is perfect.
 

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I agree that it's advisable for writers to understand about grammar and punctuation and spelling, and to get them all as right as they can: but that doesn't mean that we can all copy edit our own work effectively. There's a lot more to copy editing than checking grammar and spelling.
True, but, to be fair, the OP did say that he was hiring an editor specifically and solely for "spelling, grammar and punctuation issues". I do agree with the caw-man that authors should have a good grasp on those.

How can an author judge whether someone is competent to catch grammar issues if the author doesn't understand grammar themselves? Does the author just blindly accept changes in punctuation and sentence structure and assume anyone who accepts money for editing must be doing it right?
 

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That's a bargain-basement rate.

I don't think $1,000 is terribly low, if all you want is someone to fix grammar and punctuation. . . .

True. In these times where "fixed" pensions are gutted by inflation and poor retirement fund management, and we're threatened to be bulldozed over fiscal cliffs, some of us with lots of hard-earned writing and editing chops would rather work than sit on a high horse.

I'm happy to provide my best services for 1/3 cent per word. I'm working every day, my clients are happy to pay upon satisfaction (list provided for prospective clients), and I don't yet need a refrigerator box nor a bridge to sleep under.

"You get what you pay for" sometimes gets you what you need.
 

Susan Coffin

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True, but, to be fair, the OP did say that he was hiring an editor specifically and solely for "spelling, grammar and punctuation issues". I do agree with the caw-man that authors should have a good grasp on those.

How can an author judge whether someone is competent to catch grammar issues if the author doesn't understand grammar themselves? Does the author just blindly accept changes in punctuation and sentence structure and assume anyone who accepts money for editing must be doing it right?

I agree. If the OP should be able to throughly edit "spelling, grammar and punctuation" before sending to a copy editor.

By the same token, I also agree with Old Hack that copy editors have specific skills. I am editor of a professional newsletter and make sure I thoroughly edit before sending it to my copy editor (she's a professional), and she always finds things I miss. Copy editors are very specialized. Even though a newsletter is not the same as a novel, I would think the concept of copy editing is similar.
 

absitinvidia

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I don't think $1,000 is terribly low, if all you want is someone to fix grammar and punctuation, but if you want anything at all beyond simple grammar and punctuation, the price should be at least double what you're paying, and would still be a bargain.


I don't care how clean the author thinks the manuscript is--280,000 words comes out to well over a thousand pages. Double that because you're looking at two full passes. Divide that into an hourly rate and you're making less than you would flipping burgers.

It's insultingly low for a trained copy editor.
 

FabricatedParadise

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I don't care how clean the author thinks the manuscript is--280,000 words comes out to well over a thousand pages. Double that because you're looking at two full passes. Divide that into an hourly rate and you're making less than you would flipping burgers.

It's insultingly low for a trained copy editor.

This.

While I do understand that some talented editors (in tough financial situations) might be willing to take on a project for less than they would under ideal circumstances, I would say it's better to err on the side of caution.

Since my "day job" is editing for a house, I don't take on many freelance projects anymore and can afford to be picky. My rates have absolutely gone up since I stopped freelancing full time, but even before my rates went up, $1000 for 280k words would have been out of the question.

Bottom line, yes there are probably a few good editors out there, working for a pittance, but it's more likely that you'll end up with a not-so-good one for that price.

In regards to the above post discussing the need (or lack thereof) for an editor, I'll say this. I'm an editor by trade; I know my stuff, and I wouldn't publish my own work without letting another professional editor have a go at it. Even the best writers/ editors will miss something in their own work.

If an author plans to self-pub, he isn't doing himself any favors skipping the editing stage. If the author plans to submit to publishers and/or agents, though, a freelance editor is only necessary if the author's technical grasp of the English language, including grammar and usage, is lacking. But, in most cases, a good beta reader (or three) will do the trick.
 

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It's important to find not just an editor, but a good editor.

Many of the authors of the self published books I've reviewed have told me that I won't find mistakes or problems with their books as they've had them "professionally edited"; and yet their books are often chock-full of problems.

I've noticed that books which have been edited by iUniverse, AuthorSolutions, and other names within that organisation almost always suffer from clumsy, pedestrian editing and still show plenty of punctuation and grammar mistakes, with a hefty sprinkling of homophone substitutions too.
 

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I agree with the other posters noting how low a rate that is. I've been a freelance editor for 17 years and even at the start of my career I couldn't have charged that little. A copy editor is reading much more slowly than a reader or even you as a writer. The point is to catch the nitty gritty and that takes time. There's no way around it. My estimate for that would be closer to $2500 and even at that I know I'd be taking a loss, probably making less than $15 per hour. My usual rate is minimum of $40 per hour, and I know many copy editors charging upwards of $80 per hour.

I am happy to speak with you if you decide to search for another editor.
 

iwannabepublished

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I've been reading all the posts about the bargain basement price I was quoted for copy-editing my three books. I have to tell you all that you are 100% correct. I ended up using two people. The first did the initial pass on the first book and was never heard from again. The second person went through all three books in record time.

I turned next to a person that read the 'unedited' first book and told me it needed work. He promised to re-read the edited book and write a review for me. After the book went though both editors, I sent him a copy, expecting it to be relatively 'clean'. Much to my surprise, he found nearly 100 errors that were not caught. Most were simple things like a missing period or quote. Some were more a difference of personal style than hard copy-editing issues. A few were things like using 'to' instead of 'too'.

I can't say if the poor editing that was done by the second person was a result of rushing during the holidays or, as others have stated, simply the result of someone that is really not a copy-editor, but thinks they are. I've read other posts in different places where authors sing the praises of this person, so maybe I just had a singular bad experience.

So now my book(s) have gone through working with a beta reader, two 'professional' (or at least paid) editors and a final reader by someone who clearly has a sharp eye. I hope there are now no (or at least very few) errors because I put them out on Amazon. I think it would not be proper to name these two 'editors'. But, if anyone really wants to know you can PM me.

The moral of the story is, it pays to pay for a real professional editor.
 

wampuscat

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I'm wondering if speed also had something to do with it. According to the editorial freelancers association, a basic copy edit is 5 to 10 formatted pages an hour. Even at 10 pages an hour, that's 112 hours to edit 280,000 words. Since your first post was a month ago, I'm wondering if the edits were rushed. Just a thought. I have been paid for copy editing work in my professional life, but I've never edited novels. I don't know proper protocol or process for such a task, so I may be off the mark here. I only know it would take me quite a few weeks to accomplish such a task.
 
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iwannabepublished

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I'm wondering if speed also had something to do with it. According to the editorial freelancers association, a basic copy edit is 5 to 10 formatted pages an hour. Even at 10 pages an hour, that's 112 hours to edit 280,000 words. Since your first post was a month ago, I'm wondering if the edits were rushed. Just a thought. I have been paid for copy editing work in my professional life, but I've never edited novels. I don't know proper protocol or process for such a task, so I maybe off the mark here. I only know it would take me quite a few weeks to accomplish such a task.

I sent the manuscript to the editor on 11/29 and received an edit on 12/5. A VERY short period of time for a book just over 90,000 words. The editor's comment was:

"[FONT=&quot]The story is well-written and there wasn't much that needed to be changed."

[/FONT]
I thought it was ready for publication. Until, as I stated above, someone else read the book. Next time, I'll know better.
 

FabricatedParadise

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I'm wondering if speed also had something to do with it. According to the editorial freelancers association, a basic copy edit is 5 to 10 formatted pages an hour. Even at 10 pages an hour, that's 112 hours to edit 280,000 words. Since your first post was a month ago, I'm wondering if the edits were rushed. Just a thought. I have been paid for copy editing work in my professional life, but I've never edited novels. I don't know proper protocol or process for such a task, so I maybe off the mark here. I only know it would take me quite a few weeks to accomplish such a task.

I don't think you're off the mark at all. Edits (depending on the depth of editing needed) can range anywhere from 5-15 pgs an hour for me. I'd put proofing at closer to 15 pages. It's developmental editing that takes closer to 5 pph. But even at my fastest, I would still take about 5 weeks to complete edits that extensive. That's assuming it was my only project.

At $1000, it's just a little over $13 an hour. The chances of an experienced editor working for that amount is very slim.

OP - It sounds like you've learned a hard lesson. I'd recommend that next time, you research standard prices for editing services and expect to pay that. If an editor is offering to do it for a lot less, chances are you're not going to get the level of services you're hoping for.