Double standards for racial slurs?

Before anyone is tempted to post about how confusing/unfair this is to them personally...please go do the research on the topic before you do so. Thanks! There are plenty of helpful resources stickied at the top of the forum. The Racism 101 links are particularly useful.

<3 Jay Smooth. He is dead right on this, like so many things.

What he says can be extrapolated, IMO, to things like male comics making rape jokes about women. And to much of the "controversial" stuff that comics say in general about race, sex, etc.

The relationship of the speaker to the audience concerning the word or topic in question is of utmost importance. And things tend to get wonky when you're a public figure speaking to a vast, unknown, and diverse audience. The wider the audience and the less personal and understanding one's relationship with them, the more likely that a sensitive subject, communicated without subtlety, respect, compassion, etc., will cause offense.

Pretty damn simple, IMO.

My understanding is, it's the sentiment that's the issue rather than the letters/phonemes. But using a word that is ordinarily a slur on oneself is the only way, or at least the best way by several orders of magnitude, to demonstrate that you're not endorsing the sentiment.

In the other direction, I've heard of forums attempting to curb the expression of antisemitism by banning "Jew," or of homophobia by banning "gay" -- neutral terms that can be used opprobriously.

I don't think an outsider can use a slur without it coming across as offensive, whatever the intent, but as Jay Smooth said, that's not a double standard.

Great video. It was the kindest way to say "Duh, ya big stupid." and that requires finesse. I like that guy. I've never seen him before.

If anyone says racial slurs and can't deter them blame the government. I don't ever say anything deragatory but the government issues the laws that protect its citizens. Saying a slur is a form of harrasment and the government should take steps in my humble opinion even to regulate the internet even if we still don't have a way of stopping people short of helping them as a form of thinking that needs correctional behavior. There's a lot wrong with how people view the world since people reverse their opinions as soon as you give them an example or just plain ignore you; even though they are sadistic when the law can't do anything.

LJ,
Thanks for the post, and the new add to my daily feed. Great stuff.

LJ Hall said:

Watch more of his stuff. Seriously. He's got one on misogny and internet trolling that's definitely worth a watch.

He's also got this one about that whole finessing thing you mentioned. He makes a really good point about the difference between saying 'dude, you're a racist' when someone says something problematic, or instead saying 'dude, that was a really racist thing to say.' The difference between pointing out what someone DID or pointing out what they ARE. They're always going to knee-jerk into denial if you flat out say 'you're racist' because they don't think they are. But if you focus on what they said and why that was a problem, the conversation's way easier and won't get derailed as often.

I'm a fan of his, if that wasn't obvious. He was hilarious during the election. (Plus he could totally get it. I'm just saying.)

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I used to have a quote from him in my sig line from his rant against homophobia in hip-hop / in general (the whole "no homo" thing). I co-sign J Smooth.

He said that very well.

I am going to look up more of his stuff.

Ah, this guy! Thank you. I saw his video about "Hey, that's racist" vs "Hey, that thing you said is racist" a long time ago, but foolishly didn't bookmark it. Not making that mistake again!

He makes a really good point. But hearing anyone use that word still makes me sick to my stomach. I can't argue about what people say amongst themselves in private. But, if you don't want a way of speaking to catch on to those outside of your private circle, then keep it there. Otherwise the conflict might never end.

I like this guy. Thanks for sharing.

Maria S said:

He makes a really good point. But hearing anyone use that word still makes me sick to my stomach. I can't argue about what people say amongst themselves in private. But, if you don't want a way of speaking to catch on to those outside of your private circle, then keep it there. Otherwise the conflict might never end.

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Word.

Maria S said:

He makes a really good point. But hearing anyone use that word still makes me sick to my stomach. I can't argue about what people say amongst themselves in private. But, if you don't want a way of speaking to catch on to those outside of your private circle, then keep it there. Otherwise the conflict might never end.

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I couldn't. Agree. With. This. More.

Really.

i third that.

These observations also perfectly fit the offensive use of the term "gay" as a generic insult, especially among young people, and the flying of the Confederate flag, prominent in some quarter as a symbol of identification with the American South, and/or (somehow) as a symbol of "individualism"

caw

I and my native friends use "Injun" sometimes when we're together.

Yeah, I'd be pretty uncomfortable if I heard a non-native use it.

Maria S said:

But, if you don't want a way of speaking to catch on to those outside of your private circle, then keep it there.

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I don't really agree. I think the example he used--about putting his arm around his date and calling her honey in a bar--makes sense. Everyone in the bar can see and hear him doing it. That doesn't make it his fault if someone else does it. We're all still responsible for our own actions and speech.

Something I've noticed is if you're a critics darling like Quentin Tarantino you get a lot more slack than most mere mortals do to "go there" and stomp around where others tread far more lightly.

What is the least authentic moment in Pulp Fiction, the movie that put Q.T. on the map? Not the stabbing Uma Thurman through the breastbone with a shot of adrenalin. Not the anal rape of Marcellus Wallace whose ass is literally saved by Bruce Willis. It’s after Vincent Vega blows Marvin’s brains out and they end up at Jules Winfield’s “friend’s house.”

For the entire movie Jules is a bad-ass. He takes shit from nobody, not even his boss, Marcellus. Yet when he’s standing in front of his “buddy” Jimmy (played by Quentin Tarantino) he turns into a straight-up PUNK.

Jules: Mmmm! Goddamn, Jimmie! This is some serious gourmet shit! Usually, me and Vince would be happy with some freeze-dried Taster’s Choice right, but he springs this serious GOURMET shit on us! What flavor is this?
Jimmie: Knock it off, Julie.
Jules: [pause] What?
Jimmie: I don’t need you to tell me how fucking good my coffee is, okay? I’m the one who buys it. I know how good it is. When Bonnie goes shopping she buys SHIT. I buy the gourmet expensive stuff because when I drink it I want to taste it. But you know what’s on my mind right now? It AIN’T the coffee in my kitchen, it’s the dead nigger in my garage.
Jules: Oh, Jimmie, don’t even worry about that…
Jimmie: [interupting] No, No, No, No, let me ask you a question. When you came pulling in here, did you notice a sign out in front of my house that said “Dead Nigger Storage”?
Jules: Jimmie, you know I ain’t seen no…
Jimmie: [cutting him off again; getting angry] Did you notice a sign out in front of my house that said “Dead Nigger Storage”?
Jules: [pause] No. I didn’t.
Jimmie: You know WHY you didn’t see that sign?
Jules: Why?
Jimmie: ‘Cause it ain’t there, ’cause storing dead niggers ain’t my fucking business, that’s why!

There is a difference between using “nigger” to be historically accurate or realistic (Martin Scorsese knows how to do this and not be gratuitous in the usage) and doing it because Tarantino is one of those White guys who thinks he’s so down with the chocolate he has a ghetto pass to say what he wants and charge you $10 to watch him do it.

I say he doesn’t.

kuwisdelu said:

I and my native friends use "Injun" sometimes when we're together.

Yeah, I'd be pretty uncomfortable if I heard a non-native use it.

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I have a friend (an older guy) who has it as part of his nickname that he chose to differentiate himself from all the other Johns folks might be talking about (he's Lumbee, btw). When my dad and I talk about him, I always look around to see who might overhear us!

Some years ago, I had the distinct pleasure of serving as a "celebrity judge" for the Chicago Fire Department Chili Cookoff. I had previously overheard Italian-Americans call each other "dago" and Polish-Americans say "polock" [sp?], but I never heard racial epithets being tossed around with such reckless abandon until that day. As one of only two or three blacks there, I felt that I was watching the old "Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom" TV show and that I was getting a rare glimpse of whites in their own habitat.

A folk duo had been hired to provide the entertainment, and at one point, they called out, "How many [k-words, p-words, d-words, etc] in the house?" Guys cheered and pumped their fists in the air when they recognized their epithet. I braced myself and waited for the n-word, but thank God, they didn't get to that one.

Throughout the event, this duo would pick out guys at random and make obnoxious jokes about their particular ethnic group. They called out one Hispanic guy and told him to get his '57 Chevy off the blocks in his front yard. A black guy happened to walk by, and they pounced, asking him, "Hey, what football team are you on?"

"I'm not on the football team," the guy answered.
"OK, what basketball team are you on?" they were sneering at this point.
"I'm not on the basketball team," brotherman answered.
"OK, so what team are you on?"
"I'm on the chess team." Total silence. The two clowns didn't have a comeback for that one.

I did a writeup on the event in my community paper and simply reported what I saw without expressing any outrage. In fact, I didn't make a big deal out of it at all, but I did make sure that the paper made the rounds (if you know what I'm sayin'). The following year, the chili cookoff was totally different—the musical duo was gone and no one made any references to race or ethnicity. This cookoff had been held for years, but I think that I was the first black person from the "outside" to attend—or at least the first black person from the media. I believe that my writeup embarrassed the Fire Department, and I was happy to see some changes made as a result.

LJ Hall said:

Given the response of some Black people to Django Unchained, I'd say you're not the only one who feels this way. Did you see Spike Lee ripping into him a couple days ago?

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I respect Spike Lee, but instead of just criticizing Tarantino, why doesn't he just make a movie? If he made a movie that was his response to DJANGO UNCHAINED, that could be really interesting. I think there are probably a lot of people out there who agree with him, but they don't have the resources he has.