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LJ Hall
11-21-2012, 05:41 AM
This issue has come up a few times in threads here, and though I have no authority to talk about it, I did want to recommend ya'll to my personal favorite video on the subject. This (http://www.illdoctrine.com/2012/06/the_last_word_on_the_n-word.html) was put out by Jay Smooth in response to Gwyneth Paltrow tweeting a particular song title about people in Paris. :)

Short and sweet, and it's a good point for writers to hear, talking about how language is always affected by the relationships of the people who are talking. (You should really just watch everything else he puts out. The man is brilliant.)

Choice quote:

"The rule that says Black people using that word amongst themselves is one thing and anyone else using it is a different thing is not a double standard. What that is is a standard. It's doing what a standard is supposed to do."

Kitty Pryde
11-21-2012, 05:53 AM
Before anyone is tempted to post about how confusing/unfair this is to them personally...please go do the research on the topic before you do so. Thanks! There are plenty of helpful resources stickied at the top of the forum. The Racism 101 links are particularly useful.

Unimportant
11-21-2012, 07:28 AM
Thanks for posting that link, LJ! Brilliant, succinct, and inarguable.

leahzero
11-21-2012, 05:31 PM
<3 Jay Smooth. He is dead right on this, like so many things.

What he says can be extrapolated, IMO, to things like male comics making rape jokes about women. And to much of the "controversial" stuff that comics say in general about race, sex, etc.

The relationship of the speaker to the audience concerning the word or topic in question is of utmost importance. And things tend to get wonky when you're a public figure speaking to a vast, unknown, and diverse audience. The wider the audience and the less personal and understanding one's relationship with them, the more likely that a sensitive subject, communicated without subtlety, respect, compassion, etc., will cause offense.

Pretty damn simple, IMO.

calieber
11-21-2012, 07:26 PM
My understanding is, it's the sentiment that's the issue rather than the letters/phonemes. But using a word that is ordinarily a slur on oneself is the only way, or at least the best way by several orders of magnitude, to demonstrate that you're not endorsing the sentiment.

In the other direction, I've heard of forums attempting to curb the expression of antisemitism by banning "Jew," or of homophobia by banning "gay" -- neutral terms that can be used opprobriously.

I don't think an outsider can use a slur without it coming across as offensive, whatever the intent, but as Jay Smooth said, that's not a double standard.

Perks
11-21-2012, 07:38 PM
Great video. It was the kindest way to say "Duh, ya big stupid." and that requires finesse. I like that guy. I've never seen him before.

LJ Hall
11-22-2012, 03:27 AM
Great video. It was the kindest way to say "Duh, ya big stupid." and that requires finesse. I like that guy. I've never seen him before.

Watch more of his stuff. Seriously. He's got one (http://www.illdoctrine.com/2012/06/all_these_sexist_gamer_dudes_a.html) on misogny and internet trolling that's definitely worth a watch.

He's also got this one (http://www.illdoctrine.com/2008/07/how_to_tell_people_they_sound.html) about that whole finessing thing you mentioned. He makes a really good point about the difference between saying 'dude, you're a racist' when someone says something problematic, or instead saying 'dude, that was a really racist thing to say.' The difference between pointing out what someone DID or pointing out what they ARE. They're always going to knee-jerk into denial if you flat out say 'you're racist' because they don't think they are. But if you focus on what they said and why that was a problem, the conversation's way easier and won't get derailed as often.

I'm a fan of his, if that wasn't obvious. He was hilarious during the election. (Plus he could totally get it. I'm just saying.)

names
11-23-2012, 05:12 AM
If anyone says racial slurs and can't deter them blame the government. I don't ever say anything deragatory but the government issues the laws that protect its citizens. Saying a slur is a form of harrasment and the government should take steps in my humble opinion even to regulate the internet even if we still don't have a way of stopping people short of helping them as a form of thinking that needs correctional behavior. There's a lot wrong with how people view the world since people reverse their opinions as soon as you give them an example or just plain ignore you; even though they are sadistic when the law can't do anything.

Williebee
11-23-2012, 05:40 AM
LJ,
Thanks for the post, and the new add to my daily feed. Great stuff.

Jcomp
11-23-2012, 09:38 PM
Watch more of his stuff. Seriously. He's got one (http://www.illdoctrine.com/2012/06/all_these_sexist_gamer_dudes_a.html) on misogny and internet trolling that's definitely worth a watch.

He's also got this one (http://www.illdoctrine.com/2008/07/how_to_tell_people_they_sound.html) about that whole finessing thing you mentioned. He makes a really good point about the difference between saying 'dude, you're a racist' when someone says something problematic, or instead saying 'dude, that was a really racist thing to say.' The difference between pointing out what someone DID or pointing out what they ARE. They're always going to knee-jerk into denial if you flat out say 'you're racist' because they don't think they are. But if you focus on what they said and why that was a problem, the conversation's way easier and won't get derailed as often.

I'm a fan of his, if that wasn't obvious. He was hilarious during the election. (Plus he could totally get it. I'm just saying.)

I used to have a quote from him in my sig line from his rant against homophobia in hip-hop / in general (the whole "no homo" thing). I co-sign J Smooth.

Kitty27
12-04-2012, 10:03 AM
He said that very well.

I am going to look up more of his stuff.

Rhoda Nightingale
12-08-2012, 08:02 PM
Ah, this guy! Thank you. I saw his video about "Hey, that's racist" vs "Hey, that thing you said is racist" a long time ago, but foolishly didn't bookmark it. Not making that mistake again! :D

Maria S
12-14-2012, 07:38 PM
He makes a really good point. But hearing anyone use that word still makes me sick to my stomach. I can't argue about what people say amongst themselves in private. But, if you don't want a way of speaking to catch on to those outside of your private circle, then keep it there. Otherwise the conflict might never end.

Myrealana
12-14-2012, 10:26 PM
I like this guy. Thanks for sharing.

Lavern08
12-14-2012, 11:08 PM
He makes a really good point. But hearing anyone use that word still makes me sick to my stomach. I can't argue about what people say amongst themselves in private. But, if you don't want a way of speaking to catch on to those outside of your private circle, then keep it there. Otherwise the conflict might never end.

Word.

Jehhillenberg
12-24-2012, 11:18 AM
He makes a really good point. But hearing anyone use that word still makes me sick to my stomach. I can't argue about what people say amongst themselves in private. But, if you don't want a way of speaking to catch on to those outside of your private circle, then keep it there. Otherwise the conflict might never end.

I couldn't. Agree. With. This. More.

Really.

aruna
12-24-2012, 01:55 PM
i third that.

blacbird
12-26-2012, 10:26 AM
These observations also perfectly fit the offensive use of the term "gay" as a generic insult, especially among young people, and the flying of the Confederate flag, prominent in some quarter as a symbol of identification with the American South, and/or (somehow) as a symbol of "individualism"

caw

kuwisdelu
12-26-2012, 11:59 AM
I and my native friends use "Injun" sometimes when we're together.

Yeah, I'd be pretty uncomfortable if I heard a non-native use it.

Celia Cyanide
12-27-2012, 05:42 AM
But, if you don't want a way of speaking to catch on to those outside of your private circle, then keep it there.

I don't really agree. I think the example he used--about putting his arm around his date and calling her honey in a bar--makes sense. Everyone in the bar can see and hear him doing it. That doesn't make it his fault if someone else does it. We're all still responsible for our own actions and speech.

nighttimer
12-27-2012, 01:01 PM
Something I've noticed is if you're a critics darling like Quentin Tarantino you get a lot more slack than most mere mortals do to "go there" and stomp around where others tread far more lightly.

What is the least authentic moment in Pulp Fiction, the movie that put Q.T. on the map? Not the stabbing Uma Thurman through the breastbone with a shot of adrenalin. Not the anal rape of Marcellus Wallace whose ass is literally saved by Bruce Willis. It’s after Vincent Vega blows Marvin’s brains out and they end up at Jules Winfield’s “friend’s house.”

For the entire movie Jules is a bad-ass. He takes shit from nobody, not even his boss, Marcellus. Yet when he’s standing in front of his “buddy” Jimmy (played by Quentin Tarantino) he turns into a straight-up PUNK.

Jules: Mmmm! Goddamn, Jimmie! This is some serious gourmet shit! Usually, me and Vince would be happy with some freeze-dried Taster’s Choice right, but he springs this serious GOURMET shit on us! What flavor is this?
Jimmie: Knock it off, Julie.
Jules: [pause] What?
Jimmie: I don’t need you to tell me how fucking good my coffee is, okay? I’m the one who buys it. I know how good it is. When Bonnie goes shopping she buys SHIT. I buy the gourmet expensive stuff because when I drink it I want to taste it. But you know what’s on my mind right now? It AIN’T the coffee in my kitchen, it’s the dead nigger in my garage.
Jules: Oh, Jimmie, don’t even worry about that…
Jimmie: [interupting] No, No, No, No, let me ask you a question. When you came pulling in here, did you notice a sign out in front of my house that said “Dead Nigger Storage”?
Jules: Jimmie, you know I ain’t seen no…
Jimmie: [cutting him off again; getting angry] Did you notice a sign out in front of my house that said “Dead Nigger Storage”?
Jules: [pause] No. I didn’t.
Jimmie: You know WHY you didn’t see that sign?
Jules: Why?
Jimmie: ‘Cause it ain’t there, ’cause storing dead niggers ain’t my fucking business, that’s why!

There is a difference between using “nigger” to be historically accurate or realistic (Martin Scorsese knows how to do this and not be gratuitous in the usage) and doing it because Tarantino is one of those White guys who thinks he’s so down with the chocolate he has a ghetto pass to say what he wants and charge you $10 to watch him do it.

I say he doesn’t.

LJ Hall
12-27-2012, 11:21 PM
There is a difference between using “nigger” to be historically accurate or realistic (Martin Scorsese knows how to do this and not be gratuitous in the usage) and doing it because Tarantino is one of those White guys who thinks he’s so down with the chocolate he has a ghetto pass to say what he wants and charge you $10 to watch him do it.

I say he doesn’t.

Given the response of some Black people to Django Unchained, I'd say you're not the only one who feels this way. Did you see Spike Lee ripping into him a couple days ago?

backslashbaby
12-28-2012, 12:44 AM
I and my native friends use "Injun" sometimes when we're together.

Yeah, I'd be pretty uncomfortable if I heard a non-native use it.

I have a friend (an older guy) who has it as part of his nickname that he chose to differentiate himself from all the other Johns folks might be talking about (he's Lumbee, btw). When my dad and I talk about him, I always look around to see who might overhear us!

patskywriter
12-28-2012, 04:07 AM
Some years ago, I had the distinct pleasure of serving as a "celebrity judge" for the Chicago Fire Department Chili Cookoff. I had previously overheard Italian-Americans call each other "dago" and Polish-Americans say "polock" [sp?], but I never heard racial epithets being tossed around with such reckless abandon until that day. As one of only two or three blacks there, I felt that I was watching the old "Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom" TV show and that I was getting a rare glimpse of whites in their own habitat.

A folk duo had been hired to provide the entertainment, and at one point, they called out, "How many [k-words, p-words, d-words, etc] in the house?" Guys cheered and pumped their fists in the air when they recognized their epithet. I braced myself and waited for the n-word, but thank God, they didn't get to that one.

Throughout the event, this duo would pick out guys at random and make obnoxious jokes about their particular ethnic group. They called out one Hispanic guy and told him to get his '57 Chevy off the blocks in his front yard. A black guy happened to walk by, and they pounced, asking him, "Hey, what football team are you on?"

"I'm not on the football team," the guy answered.
"OK, what basketball team are you on?" they were sneering at this point.
"I'm not on the basketball team," brotherman answered.
"OK, so what team are you on?"
"I'm on the chess team." Total silence. The two clowns didn't have a comeback for that one.

I did a writeup on the event in my community paper and simply reported what I saw without expressing any outrage. In fact, I didn't make a big deal out of it at all, but I did make sure that the paper made the rounds (if you know what I'm sayin'). The following year, the chili cookoff was totally different—the musical duo was gone and no one made any references to race or ethnicity. This cookoff had been held for years, but I think that I was the first black person from the "outside" to attend—or at least the first black person from the media. I believe that my writeup embarrassed the Fire Department, and I was happy to see some changes made as a result.

Celia Cyanide
12-28-2012, 05:29 AM
Given the response of some Black people to Django Unchained, I'd say you're not the only one who feels this way. Did you see Spike Lee ripping into him a couple days ago?

I respect Spike Lee, but instead of just criticizing Tarantino, why doesn't he just make a movie? If he made a movie that was his response to DJANGO UNCHAINED, that could be really interesting. I think there are probably a lot of people out there who agree with him, but they don't have the resources he has.

fadeaccompli
12-28-2012, 07:45 PM
I respect Spike Lee, but instead of just criticizing Tarantino, why doesn't he just make a movie? If he made a movie that was his response to DJANGO UNCHAINED, that could be really interesting. I think there are probably a lot of people out there who agree with him, but they don't have the resources he has.

I don't think that's really a fair response, though. Criticism doesn't have to come paired with an ideal and perfect replacement in order to be valid, even if the criticism is being given by someone in roughly the same field. I can read a Heyer novel and talk about why I don't like how that one went without needing to go write my own romance novel in Georgian England that does it better, even if I do write novels.

"I hate what happened there; I'm going to do it better!" can inspire some excellent art, mind. But making a movie is an even huger process than writing a novel. I don't think it's fair to insist that he go devote years of his life and huge sums of money and hundreds of other people in doing something similar-but-better, when he might want to do other projects instead, just to make his criticism more effective in some way.

Celia Cyanide
12-29-2012, 05:27 AM
I don't think that's really a fair response, though. Criticism doesn't have to come paired with an ideal and perfect replacement in order to be valid, even if the criticism is being given by someone in roughly the same field. I can read a Heyer novel and talk about why I don't like how that one went without needing to go write my own romance novel in Georgian England that does it better, even if I do write novels.

"I hate what happened there; I'm going to do it better!" can inspire some excellent art, mind. But making a movie is an even huger process than writing a novel. I don't think it's fair to insist that he go devote years of his life and huge sums of money and hundreds of other people in doing something similar-but-better, when he might want to do other projects instead, just to make his criticism more effective in some way.

And in this case, I think it is fair. He's supposed to be a filmmaker, and in recent years, he's been far more well known for attacking other filmmakers than for making his own movies.

kuwisdelu
12-29-2012, 05:40 AM
I just had to google Spike Lee to see what he's made only to find out that he's apparently shooting a remake of Oldboy. Goddammit, that movie doesn't need to be remade. It's already perfect!

Kim Fierce
12-29-2012, 06:53 AM
I like Tarantino movies, but not some of the words he throws around. In Pulp Fiction I noticed that when they show Jimmie's wife coming home, she is black, so that should have made it even LESS ok for Jimmie to say it, not more.

When my bi-racial niece was 2 years old she looked me in the eye and said the n-word for the first time. (I lived with her and my sister from the time she was 6 mos. old to over 2 years.) I told her not to say that word and wacked her on the butt. But then I got confused lol. For one, I know that without a doubt she did not hear that word from a white person. We would not associate with anyone white who would use that word in a derogetory way, and yeah, it means both my sister and I have dropped some friends (and even family) because of it. And two, since my niece is black, I thought to myself, "She's allowed to say it" haha. But then I decided, you know what, she is two years old so I was right in telling her not to say it! It is not a word said in our close family by either color. But quoting a song with that word in the title? Not sure how you're going to get around that one!

nighttimer
12-29-2012, 09:53 AM
Given the response of some Black people to Django Unchained, I'd say you're not the only one who feels this way. Did you see Spike Lee ripping into him a couple days ago?

Yes, I did. Spike's problem is he frequently criticizes other filmmakers for their films and opens himself up for the same kind of treatment when one of his craps out (dogs out Clint Eastwood's Flags of Our Fathers while his own Miracle At St. Anna tanks).

I don't have that problem. Whether its lazy, stupid rappers or hipster directors, I don't find extensive usage of the N-word all that entertaining.

fadeaccompli
12-29-2012, 07:16 PM
And in this case, I think it is fair. He's supposed to be a filmmaker, and in recent years, he's been far more well known for attacking other filmmakers than for making his own movies.

I'm still not sure how that follows. Because he's made movies before, he ought to always be better known for his movies than his criticism?

But then, I'm generally in favor of more critique, and especially in favor of knowledgable critique. A good critic is a marvelous thing, and a critic who has a solid knowledge of the field they're critiquing is even more likely (though not guaranteed) to be a good one. If no one else is stepping up to the bat with this sort of commentary, or if the other people who are don't get any audience because they're not as well known, it sounds like he's doing an excellent job in raising these sorts of questions in a place where they're likely to be heard.

Celia Cyanide
12-29-2012, 09:02 PM
I'm still not sure how that follows. Because he's made movies before, he ought to always be better known for his movies than his criticism?

Making movies is what what most filmmakers want to be known for.

Kitty27
12-29-2012, 10:34 PM
I hear the N word a thousand times in one day. I use it in one of my novels quite a lot. I grew up hearing it. Quite a few Blacks are not fond of the word,either.

The thing is that it's an "insider" word. You hear it from someone of your own race and give a Kanye shrug. You understand it's not a diss,not mean spirited,etc. It has almost become a term of endearment. You hear it from someone outside your race and it's like an instinctive reaction of WTF did you just say?

Tarantino obviously has an obsession with the word. But it needs to be understood that no matter how cool you may be,you just cannot say this word in REAL life. You just can't. People ask why and come with the old "But they can say it!"

Yes,we can. With abandon. Because we are Black. That's the raw truth.

It's usually the entitled folks who basically can't understand why a member of a group they secretly look down upon are telling them what to do. I have a very dear friend who once said sane White people not only don't say the word,they don't want to say it.

Spike Lee annoys me. He gets on my last damned nerve. From going in on Tyler Perry(who like it or not,portrayed a very real mother figure in the Black community) to this boycott, he needs to focus on the increasingly crappy output he has been doing the past few years. Yes,it's annoying that a Black director most likely wouldn't have been given the chance to do a Django. Yes, Quentin Tarantino loves himself the N word. But Spike has to focus on getting movies out that he obviously wants to do.

And make sure they are quality while he's at it.

thebloodfiend
12-29-2012, 10:49 PM
I respect Spike Lee, but instead of just criticizing Tarantino, why doesn't he just make a movie? If he made a movie that was his response to DJANGO UNCHAINED, that could be really interesting. I think there are probably a lot of people out there who agree with him, but they don't have the resources he has.I don't think he has to. I think, as a whole, what he's saying is that he finds white guys making blaxploitation films to be rather distasteful and disrespectful. I don't necessarily disagree, but I haven't seen the film and I wish Spike saw it before he commented on it.

Making a blaxploitation film probably isn't on his agenda, and making a film about slavery—aka, Roots—probably isn't up there, either. I, personally, don't think Spike will ever make a really popular movie again. Why waste money making a comeback film? It's been proven time and time again that the majority of movie goers prefer movies like The Help and The Secret Life of Bees and Driving Miss Daisy over Bamboozled.

We recently saw John Singleton make that thing, Abduction. Singleton, of Boyz in the Hood and Rosewood. That's probably all Spike could get a lot of audiences to come out and see right now.

Besides, Aaron McGruder already tackled something similar in The Story of Catcher Freeman.

Celia Cyanide
12-29-2012, 11:09 PM
I don't think he has to. I think, as a whole, what he's saying is that he finds white guys making blaxploitation films to be rather distasteful and disrespectful. I don't necessarily disagree, but I haven't seen the film and I wish Spike saw it before he commented on it.


I don't think he has to see the movie just to find the idea of a while guy making a blaxploitation movie distasteful. I find that rather distasteful, and I've seen DJANGO UNCHAINED, and I even liked it. I think there are a lot of things Tarantino doesn't get. He has always struck me as someone who believes that just because he likes something that makes him an expert.


Making a blaxploitation film probably isn't on his agenda, and making a film about slavery—aka, Roots—probably isn't up there, either.

It doesn't have to be either of those things for it to be a response. David Cronenberg's THE BROOD was a response to KRAMER VS KRAMER.


Why waste money making a comeback film?

If he did do a "comeback film," it wouldn't be a waste of money.

fireluxlou
12-30-2012, 04:27 PM
I doubt Spike Lee has the backers or financial investors willing to even support him making such a movie. Hello we're talking about Hollywood here, where black people have little clout, little support. Tarrantino can get a film like this made because he's white and Tarrantino. But I doubt Spike Lee would even have half the support. It'd probably be stuck in development hell or something like that and if the studio picked it up he might get dropped for a white director like what usually happens.

crunchyblanket
12-30-2012, 05:16 PM
I just had to google Spike Lee to see what he's made only to find out that he's apparently shooting a remake of Oldboy. Goddammit, that movie doesn't need to be remade. It's already perfect!

You're kidding me, right? Why would you even touch a film like that? So much of it is dependant on Korean culture and it'll end up completely lost in translation, or missing vital elements...


I and my native friends use "Injun" sometimes when we're together.

Yeah, I'd be pretty uncomfortable if I heard a non-native use it.


It's the same as the word 'pikey'. My family and I throw it around, and my husband knows enough about our background and culture that I don't feel uncomfortable when he uses it. But if I heard an 'outsider' use it, I'd raise an eyebrow.

Celia Cyanide
12-30-2012, 08:42 PM
I doubt Spike Lee has the backers or financial investors willing to even support him making such a movie.

I'm curious how "such a movie" would differ from the movies he is already making, and is able to get funding for? Like crunch and kuwi, I was kind of surprised he was doing a remake of OLDBOY. He can get the rights and funding to do that?

Merrit
12-30-2012, 09:21 PM
I cringe every time I hear someone use a racial slur. I do not care what color their skin is or what culture they were raised in. I hate the use of them by anyone. My family is mixed, I am fair skinned like my mother and my brother is darker skinned like my father. I grew up hearing snarky comments because I have dark hair, light eyes and white skin. I heard equally nasty stuff said by others because of my brothers darker skin. No matter who said it or who it was directed at, it hurt to hear other say things. I think it would be better if we treated each other like humans instead of using racial slurs. That is just my opinion because of my experiences being called a half-breed when I was growing up.

Lavern08
12-30-2012, 11:05 PM
I cringe every time I hear someone use a racial slur. I do not care what color their skin is or what culture they were raised in. I hate the use of them by anyone...

Indeed. :(

kuwisdelu
12-30-2012, 11:48 PM
You're kidding me, right? Why would you even touch a film like that? So much of it is dependant on Korean culture and it'll end up completely lost in translation, or missing vital elements...

Nope (http://screenrant.com/spike-lee-oldboy-kofi-123037/).

And, well, Asian culture at least. The movie was actually based on a Japanese manga...


I'm curious how "such a movie" would differ from the movies he is already making, and is able to get funding for? Like crunch and kuwi, I was kind of surprised he was doing a remake of OLDBOY. He can get the rights and funding to do that?

Apparently the mangaka was kind of pissed off when he found out the producers sold the rights to Hollywood. Hollywood just can't tell Asian stories.

Kitty27
12-31-2012, 02:02 AM
I cringe every time I hear someone use a racial slur. I do not care what color their skin is or what culture they were raised in. I hate the use of them by anyone. My family is mixed, I am fair skinned like my mother and my brother is darker skinned like my father. I grew up hearing snarky comments because I have dark hair, light eyes and white skin. I heard equally nasty stuff said by others because of my brothers darker skin. No matter who said it or who it was directed at, it hurt to hear other say things. I think it would be better if we treated each other like humans instead of using racial slurs. That is just my opinion because of my experiences being called a half-breed when I was growing up.

My mother doesn't like the use of the N word,period. It's a generational thing as well. My generation slung it around with no hesitation. But older Blacks,you never heard it said.

I am sorry you heard such a foul thing.:Hug2:

Kitty27
12-31-2012, 02:04 AM
I doubt Spike Lee has the backers or financial investors willing to even support him making such a movie. Hello we're talking about Hollywood here, where black people have little clout, little support. Tarrantino can get a film like this made because he's white and Tarrantino. But I doubt Spike Lee would even have half the support. It'd probably be stuck in development hell or something like that and if the studio picked it up he might get dropped for a white director like what usually happens.

Real talk all day,fireluxlou.


Nope (http://screenrant.com/spike-lee-oldboy-kofi-123037/).

And, well, Asian culture at least. The movie was actually based on a Japanese manga...



Apparently the mangaka was kind of pissed off when he found out the producers sold the rights to Hollywood. Hollywood just can't tell Asian stories.


Dear Gawd. First I heard about The Crow being remade(I am STILL horrified) and now this. Some movies don't need to be touched in any way.

thebloodfiend
12-31-2012, 02:09 AM
Perhaps this is a case of Gus Van Sant and Psycho?

Remaking it so no one has to?

Meh, I don't think Spike will do too bad with it. Probably just something to make in between his commercials. The giveway is the Sam Jackson attachment—the black guy white people will watch according to Hollywood. If you can't afford Denzel or Will, Jackson is your next best bet.

I highly doubt Spike would get the backers, in this economy, to fund a big budget black movie as a response to Django. The very thought is about as funny as Singleton getting the money to remake Roots.

Celia Cyanide
12-31-2012, 03:49 AM
I highly doubt Spike would get the backers, in this economy, to fund a big budget black movie as a response to Django. The very thought is about as funny as Singleton getting the money to remake Roots.

Why does it have to be a big budget movie? All I said was, if he has something to say, he can say it with his filmmaking. I don't see why he needs any more money than he already has just to express his opinion.

fireluxlou
12-31-2012, 04:06 AM
Why does it have to be a big budget movie? All I said was, if he has something to say, he can say it with his filmmaking. I don't see why he needs any more money than he already has just to express his opinion.

Because the more money you have, better cast, better advertising, more cinemas it will go into etc. The more exposure better production you'll have if a big name studio is willing to invest in your project.

I bet not many people have heard of the recent remake of Steel Magnolias even though it's got an ensemble black cast with big names of black actors. The diversity in film and tv is not as good as it was in the 80s and 90s. In fact there's been studies to show its gone down and studios are less willing to invest in black entertainment these days than they were in the 80s and 90s. In fact little to no black presence at all http://articles.latimes.com/2011/nov/19/entertainment/la-et-1119-black-family-20111119

And I don't get why he need to respond with a film even though he's a film maker? Books I don't like I don't criticize by writing books in response to them.

benluby
12-31-2012, 04:11 AM
Perhaps this is a case of Gus Van Sant and Psycho?

Remaking it so no one has to?

Meh, I don't think Spike will do too bad with it. Probably just something to make in between his commercials. The giveway is the Sam Jackson attachment—the black guy white people will watch according to Hollywood. If you can't afford Denzel or Will, Jackson is your next best bet.

I highly doubt Spike would get the backers, in this economy, to fund a big budget black movie as a response to Django. The very thought is about as funny as Singleton getting the money to remake Roots.

Watch out. You're going to see Old Boy turned into a black vs. white suppression film from Spike.

And, while I'm no fan of Spike Lee, QT is an absolute moron. How in the hell he keeps getting money is stunning.

thebloodfiend
12-31-2012, 04:20 AM
Why does it have to be a big budget movie? All I said was, if he has something to say, he can say it with his filmmaking. I don't see why he needs any more money than he already has just to express his opinion.I'd think the point would be to get it seen by as many people as possible—an audience of equal, or greater size than which saw Django. Not to make a low budget film that would only open in New York.

For me, Spike's point is something that would need to be nationally recognized, if made into a movie, and would need a big budget and a blockbuster script to even register with the average American. A small film that's only seen by devoted Spike fans on HBO does little to nothing.

Celia Cyanide
12-31-2012, 06:09 AM
Because the more money you have, better cast, better advertising, more cinemas it will go into etc. The more exposure better production you'll have if a big name studio is willing to invest in your project.

Yes, I know how it works. But he is getting films made, anyway. He's got things to say, so I don't see why he can't say them with his films, instead of remaking a movie that doesn't need to be remade.


And I don't get why he need to respond with a film even though he's a film maker? Books I don't like I don't criticize by writing books in response to them.

I didn't say he needed to. I said I wished he would. I remember when Spike Lee used to be considered a great filmmaker, first and foremost. Now, he's mostly known for complaining about other filmmakers. If that's what he wants, that's fine by me. His opinion is still valid. Really, I think he's a much better writer and director than Quentin Tarantino. And I think he could add much to the conversation.

Abacas
01-05-2013, 05:49 PM
I think it's totally against the ethics and social lives of people to adopt Double standards for racial slurs, in different ares and sectors. Which sometimes really hurt the feelings of people to great extent and lead them to stage of frustration and inferiority complex. Which need to be changed the trend.

crunchyblanket
01-05-2013, 11:51 PM
Dear Gawd. First I heard about The Crow being remade(I am STILL horrified) and now this. Some movies don't need to be touched in any way.


Back up a sec. WHAT? Why? It's not like it's especially old, or outdated, and you'd think what with Brandon Lee's legacy and all that it'd verge on the sacriligeous to touch it...

Rachel Udin
01-06-2013, 12:02 AM
I think it's totally against the ethics and social lives of people to adopt Double standards for racial slurs, in different ares and sectors. Which sometimes really hurt the feelings of people to great extent and lead them to stage of frustration and inferiority complex. Which need to be changed the trend.
Huh? I think you missed something big here. It reads to me like you are saying that the people outside of the group that were being named with the racial slur should get to use the racial slur too because it insults the rest of the people to not be able to use it like the in-group does. As in white people could call a black person an N. O.o; Uhh... no. They don't. That's fail. See the top post and the explanation for why not.

Please clarify your position.