Unlikeable Main Characters

LJD said:

There are regularly comments on AW that say something to the effect of: "Your character doesn't have to be likeable as long as he/she is interesting."

Here's the thing. As a reader, I am not much of a fan of the interesting-but-not-likeable MC. When giving reasons for why I don't like a particular book, this is often one I give. And when I read reviews on Goodreads, many readers will make similar comments. If I don't like the MC, I don't really care what happens to him/her.

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about half those readers STILL watch House, read 50 Shades, etc. The other half weren't the target audience.

Look, you're never going to please all people. And maybe YOU don't like an unlikeable character.....which is certainly good reason not to write them. And perhaps some of those books didn't make that character interesting, which, as you noted above, was the conditional....

But you'd have to have a pretty limited base of experience to not realize there are a ton of books and films with unlikeable, but utterly fascinating, characters.....many of them very popular.

Dexter
Hannibal
House
Sherlock Holmes
Annie Wilkes in "Misery"
Dorian Gray, and his mentor, Lord Henry

etc. etc. etc.


P.S. I'm reading Lolita right now.....I find the guy VERY readable despite being unlikeable. As I said, you won't please everyone, but your tastes don't negate mine, and vice versa. You can't please everyone. Also, "likeable" is relative.....I certainly don't "like" pedophilia, but Humbert is engaging for the things about himself he does understand and the things he's oblivious to--I find him to be a fascinating character study, even though I don't want to invite him over for a beer.

LJD said:

...
But I guess what I'm really trying to figure out is:
Does "The character doesn't have to be likeable as long as he/she is interesting" represent how the majority of readers feel? Or: does such a character significanlty limit the audience of your book?

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There is no such thing as a "majority of readers." Even the most beloved book in the world (if there is such a thing) will never get a "majority of readers" to like it.

And "interesting" is not a substitute for "likeable," it's the bare minimum. "Likeable" is extra.

LJD said:

So I'm wondering:
1) Is this often a reason for you not to enjoy a book, like it frequently is for me?

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To not like a character? Yes. I wouldn't continue reading if I didn't like the character at all.
An interesting, but unlikable characters. Hard to tell. I do read for interest, but a totally unlikable character is dead to me, thus I don't read.

2) What are some books you enjoyed with unlikeable characters? Maybe I need to try some different ones.

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Hmm... who quicklime said. But, there is a line between unlikable, and unlikable who you feel for.

3) Are there certain genres/types of stories in which an unlikeable MC might work better than others? I'm thinking it would be especially tough to pull off in romance.

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...ah... no. Most modern writing takes place as close to the characters as possible. There are some rare, and valuable examples, but they are different.

Does "The character doesn't have to be likeable as long as he/she is interesting" represent how the majority of readers feel? Or: does such a character significanlty limit the audience of your book?

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I think it's more: "This character doesn't hold any redeeming qualities that I find attractive, so I don't like them"


I really can't see how you label a character "unlikable" unless they were designed to be hated.

Take House for example.
He's an anti-hero, who just wants to do what the hell he wants. He places himself in a position to peak his curiosity, but to slightly help people.
His redeeming qualities come from his weakness, piled on weakness (which makes a character feel more real), coupled with his hidden, willingness to help others. All the while, he acts strong, hiding everything away to not appear weak before others.
All of his qualities reflect human nature, and thus he's not unlikable.



Most readers don't like a character, because they simply don't feel for them. And that's the writer's fault.
Every character has a redeeming quality to them, and the reader wishes to find that. Interesting, unlikable or not, they need some redeeming quality to bring the reader closer. If that isn't brought up, nor does the reader have the faintest clue that it might come up, it falls to the author's failure.



This is all coming from my WIP.

I've got 2 MC.
One is likable to the letter.
The other is hated by the world, and forces people to hate him, but for a reason. He's got heavy reasons for this, that might reflect back to the reader.


My thoughts.

I don't like Humbert Humbert, but I sympathize with him. That's the genius of Lolita. If it works on you, you'll end up sympathizing with a monster.

Sympathetic != likable.

quicklime said:

I certainly don't "like" pedophilia, but Humbert is engaging for the things about himself he does understand and the things he's oblivious to--I find him to be a fascinating character study, even though I don't want to invite him over for a beer.

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Really? As long as you don't have a young daughter in the house, he seems like he'd be awesome to have a beer with.

quicklime said:

I certainly don't "like" pedophilia

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hebephilia*

I guess you could say this correction is very...

(•_•)
( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)

...minor.

LJD said:

But I guess what I'm really trying to figure out is:
Does "The character doesn't have to be likeable as long as he/she is interesting" represent how the majority of readers feel? Or: does such a character significanlty limit the audience of your book?

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What you've expressed is your personal taste in reading, nothing more. As others have noted, examples abound. Another good one would be the irascible, arrogant, stingy, stuffy, pompous agoraphobic detective Nero Wolfe.

Personally, I think a character lacking in any discernible flaws (a Mary Sue, if you wish) is much more likely to limit readership.

caw

LJD said:

So I'm wondering:
1) Is this often a reason for you not to enjoy a book, like it frequently is for me?
2) What are some books you enjoyed with unlikeable characters? Maybe I need to try some different ones.
3) Are there certain genres/types of stories in which an unlikeable MC might work better than others? I'm thinking it would be especially tough to pull off in romance.

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It depends...

I'm not sure. I find that most characters I don't like are also boring to me. Magically! I'm not sure you can totally extricate boringness/interestingness from likability. Or define either.

If I don't like the main character, I'm probably not going to like the book. But whether I like the character or not has nothing to do with how objectively "likable" they are (assuming there is such a thing). Holden Caulfield annoyed the piss out of me, but is he unlikable? Darth Vader is evil, but who dislikes him?

I can, however, feel lukewarm about an MC and still really like the book. Lord of the Flies, for example. The Book of Lost Things, also.

quicklime said:

Dexter
Hannibal
House
Sherlock Holmes
Annie Wilkes in "Misery"
Dorian Gray, and his mentor, Lord Henry

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Huh.

To me, those characters are likable. Well, Dexter is. House is. Sherlock Holmes is. I'm not familiar enough with the others to say. (I've seen Silence of the Lambs...I guess I wouldn't call Hannibal in that "likable" but I don't dislike him either.)

For me, in my brain, "unlikable" is "obnoxious and unsympathetic and not that interesting", not "they do bad stuff." I can easily have sympathy for Dexter and I don't find him obnoxious. Anakin Skywalker? Obnoxious. Then he turns into Darth Vader and he's awesome. And of course there's Jar Jar, who's one of the good guys, but the good guy you wanna shoot in the face. Everyone in A Separate Peace? Bleah. I wouldn't define Gene or Phineas as fundamentally unlikable but I really didn't like 'em.

"Likable" is quite a broad and nonspecific term. What is meant by unlikable?

(I don't know about the genre question...)

House and Sherlock Holmes I liked. Nero Wolfe...not so much. I found him to be the most annoying and rude of the three.

Now, if you're talking about unlikeable main characters, you should read the Thomas Covenant books. I should have quit after the rape scene, but I was hoping there would be some redemption for the character. There wasn't. And from what I've heard about the rest of the series, he doesn't really grow.

1) Is this often a reason for you not to enjoy a book, like it frequently is for me?

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I like to hate characters as much as I like to love them.

2) What are some books you enjoyed with unlikeable characters? Maybe I need to try some different ones.

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I can't think of many off the top of my head, but one for sure is Adventures of the Artificial Woman by Thomas Berger. I absolutely did not like the MC Ellery Pierce. He was a douchewhistle. (Am I allowed to compare a character to a hybrid feminine hygiene product/musical device here? Oh well it's typed. Write me up if you have to.)

3) Are there certain genres/types of stories in which an unlikeable MC might work better than others? I'm thinking it would be especially tough to pull off in romance.

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I have disliked characters across genres. A romantic character who is also a floozy is one I might not like, but I'd probably enjoy following his/her escapades and the aftermath of their choices.

But I guess what I'm really trying to figure out is:
Does "The character doesn't have to be likeable as long as he/she is interesting" represent how the majority of readers feel? Or: does such a character significanlty limit the audience of your book?

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I am certainly not part of the majority.

If I truly do not like a character, then I can't very well enjoy a book where I'm in their head most of the time.

But when they're just characters in a book, I have liked some damned horrible people. In fact, I tend to gravitate toward the gleeful villains and the cranky-pants heroes--there's something about a person who doesn't give a shit what anyone thinks of them that I find very appealing.

And on the flip side, I have intensely disliked characters who were clearly written to be likeable and awesome.

Whether a character resonates with you is very, very personal. It depends quite sensitively on the exact configuration of your history, your id, and your moral code.

LJD said:

There are regularly comments on AW that say something to the effect of: "Your character doesn't have to be likeable as long as he/she is interesting."

Here's the thing. As a reader, I am not much of a fan of the interesting-but-not-likeable MC. When giving reasons for why I don't like a particular book, this is often one I give. And when I read reviews on Goodreads, many readers will make similar comments. If I don't like the MC, I don't really care what happens to him/her.

One example: The Corrections (Franzen). I could not stand this book because of the characters, and the vast majority of the negative reviews give this as one of the reasons for the low rating. But would I say they were interesting characters? Yes. I just hated every single one. My dad gave this as the reason he didn't like Lolita. Unlikeable characters seems to be a common complaint about J.K. Rowlings' The Casual Vacancy.


So I'm wondering:
1) Is this often a reason for you not to enjoy a book, like it frequently is for me?
2) What are some books you enjoyed with unlikeable characters? Maybe I need to try some different ones.
3) Are there certain genres/types of stories in which an unlikeable MC might work better than others? I'm thinking it would be especially tough to pull off in romance.

But I guess what I'm really trying to figure out is:
Does "The character doesn't have to be likeable as long as he/she is interesting" represent how the majority of readers feel? Or: does such a character significanlty limit the audience of your book?

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1) My non-likeable character is much different than someone else's idea of a non-likeable character. If the plot is good, I will still read the book.

2) I often prefer the villains over the heroes in novels, so my suggestions might not work for you.

3) Horror. Paranormal. One of the recent books I've read had a female lead character who "played" these two guys. I've read books about murderers, satanists, and druggies...some people might think they're unlikeable, while I think they are "colorful".

LJD said:

The examples above do seem to fall into one of the following:

1) House, Nero Wolfe, Sherlock Holmes: very clever MC, and the book/show is about the MC using his cleverness to solve problems.

2) Dexter, Hannibal, Annie Wilkes (?): serial killers.


Which is sort of an answer to my third question.

So anything that doesn't fit into those two categories would be of particular interest


I did manage to come up with a book I liked despite the unlikeable protagonist: A Confederacy of Dunces. I guess humor can occasionally overcome this for me...

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I'm thinking there's quite a few in classical lit others might be able to help with, Ahab was not especially likeable as I recall though, and in Agyar the MC reforms over time but starts off as pretentious, manipulative, and not above hitting women.....still read the rest of the book, and it is one of my favorite vampire books. And note in setting up your false dichotomy you're already ignoring one of your own examples, Humbert Humbert. He was neither a serial killer nor a genius.

kuwisdelu said:

Really? As long as you don't have a young daughter in the house, he seems like he'd be awesome to have a beer with.

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I do, and she's twelve.

Beyond that, he'd absolutely be interesting to do a bit of amateur head-peeping with.

I think it depends on what is unlikeable about the character, and whether they have any redeeming features - someone without any is as flat as someone with no flaws, to my mind (Though it can work - Patrick Bateman springs to mind, but that's kind of like watching a train wreck...).

House is an irascible bastard, but he's smart and he's bloody funny too, so he gets forgiven to an extent because he's fun (well, a certain kind of fun..).

Hannibal was a serial killer, but he had some very smart observations, and had charisma.

Then it becomes the lovable (kinda..) rogue thing. You know the guy does bad things, but you're enjoying the ride - maybe enjoying the fact they can do what you wish you could (snark at your boss or whatever) - so you don't get off at the next stop.

Interesting discussion...

I think "unlikeable" is rather broad here. What I like about a character isn't always what I'd like in a real life human being I'd want to be friends with. Characters don't have to be good people.

"Interesting" is also rather broad, in that what holds my interest as a reader won't always be the same for the next guy.

"Memorable" is a good quality to have in a character, I think. Someone who keeps readers going on to the next page to see what they'll do next, even if it's terrible. Patrick Bateman is a good example, although I've only seen the movie so I can't speak for how the prose works--totally evil, not a good guy by any stretch of the imagination, but he holds your interest. You're not really supposed to "like" him, I don't think, but you're supposed to be invested enough in his story that you stick around long enough to see how it ends.

Alex DeLarge--same thing. Horrible human being, but he's clever and witty and weirdly charming. He holds people's attention.

Those are both villain protagonists, but you get the idea.

Likable, no. Empathetic, yes. House is completely unlikable, but he's extremely empathetic.

TV Dexter is extremely likeable. One, we know the hideous trauma he sustained as a very young child, which has shaped his dark impulses. Two, though he used to think himself incapable of love, he's been proven wrong many times. Three, he's a sweetheart to children. Four, he only kills other killers. Five, he cleans up after himself. Six, he brings doughnuts to work.

I won't read a book with a thoroughly unlikeable MC, but that as often means monotonously whiny and self-obsessed and passive to me as, oh say, a serial killer.

An "unlikeable" hero/heroine may become relatable (and therefore compelling) if there's something in his/her makeup that strikes a chord with the reader (think Amazing Amy in "Gone Girl.")

LJD said:

So I'm wondering:
1) Is this often a reason for you not to enjoy a book, like it frequently is for me?
2) What are some books you enjoyed with unlikeable characters? Maybe I need to try some different ones.
3) Are there certain genres/types of stories in which an unlikeable MC might work better than others? I'm thinking it would be especially tough to pull off in romance.

But I guess what I'm really trying to figure out is:
Does "The character doesn't have to be likeable as long as he/she is interesting" represent how the majority of readers feel? Or: does such a character significanlty limit the audience of your book?

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I guess it depends on what makes a character likeable or unlikeable. Some people like characters who are flawed, others prefer characters who are straight-up good or evil. I am one of those who prefer flawed characters who make mistakes, so I find perfect characters unbearable and WILL stop reading a book if the MC is too much of a Mary/Gary Sue.

To answer your second question, there are plenty of books I've enjoyed with flawed characters.

GRRM's ASOIAF has a huge cast of characters, every one of whom is majorly flawed in some way. My favorite character of his is Tyrion Lannister, an A-hole with a heart of gold.

Joe Abercrombie is another writer whose characters are often selfishly motivated and do despicable things...but I find myself empathizing with them.

The book Shantaram suffers somewhat from purple prose, but I found the humor and the characters in it engaging enough to keep reading. The main character is a criminal who broke out of prison and escaped to India, where he finds himself tangled with the Indian underworld. Many of the major characters are criminals who do horrible things, but once again, I found myself empathizing with many of them.

And if you haven't already seen it, do watch a couple episodes of Breaking Bad. The writers did an excellent job of showing the process of turning a good man into a villain. The side characters are amazingly complex and very well-done too. Jesse, the MC's sidekick, is such a great example of someone who isn't likeable (he's a druggie, the way he talks grates on my ears, he does the stuuuupidest things that get them in the worst trouble)...but most of the time, I just want to give him a hug.

I'm not sure about unlikeable characters in romance as I don't really read that genre, but the examples I've given span a number of different genres. I may be wrong, but maybe people who read romance look for heroes and heroines they can fall in love with, so this might not work well in romance. And lastly, like others have said, it's really a matter of personal preference. I'm a huge fan of Black and Gray Morality, so I much prefer conflicted characters. Different strokes for different folks..!

I've just finished reading The Satanic Verses, Saladin and Gabreel are both utterly unlikeable characters, but I was hooked.

What I think you are looking for is reassurance that you preference, is the 'right' preference.

I second the suggestion for Breaking Bad (even though it's a tv show). You see why the good guys go bad, and you're rooting for them every step of the way. Then they become the bad guys amongst a bunch of REALLY REALLY BAD guys, so they are practically decent by default. Amazing show.

A few books I really like with horrible unlikable MCs:

The Stars My Destination by Alfred Bester--a sci-fi classic! Unrepentant douche saves all of humanity in an effort to save his own butt.
Slice of Cherry-weird YA rural fantasy about two fairly bitchy serial killer sisters.

One of my fav. books is 'Gone With the Wind.' But I don't like Scarlet O'Hara. Just don't. My fav. character is the wishywashy Melanie Wilkes, who we eventually learn has an amazing strength of character.

But Scarlet is a survivor, and she's damn interesting.

I still don't like her.