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Akria
10-15-2012, 02:08 AM
It seems like no one understood my post so I'll try to simplify...

[Question 1] Basically as of right now I'm unpublished but I have two book series that I want to try to publish. Will trying to get the Male/male contemporary novel series published first instead of the romantic suspense novel series affect my chances of getting a agent negatively?

[Question 2] If I decide to try and publish the M/M contemp novel first, should I wait to get an Agent?

I'm leaning towards Samhain publishing for my M/M series since it fits their guidelines the most.

profen4
10-15-2012, 02:32 AM
Anyway I was wondering if that was true...
Will trying to publish a M/M romance series first affect my chances of getting a agent negatively? And if I do publish that series first should I wait to get an agent later when I try to publish the romantic suspense?

An agent will take on a book they believe they can sell. I am not familiar with the m/m market (and who you would be submitting to, publisher-wise), but if you're talking about trying to get a deal with a major publisher, your best bet is to get an agent.

It is my opinion that you always, always, always want an agent on your side. If for no other reason then to help you avoid the contract pit-falls some publishers have in their contracts.
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What kind of publishing are you talking about for your M/M novel? ePublishing? Self publishing, going after a major publisher? I ask because it is my understanding that your status as a 'debut' author is not destroyed by some of those options.

WeaselFire
10-15-2012, 06:21 AM
I've read the OP's post three times and I'm still lost.

Find an agent, let them find a publisher. If that's what you're asking.

Jeff

Susan Littlefield
10-15-2012, 06:48 AM
Akria,

:welcome:

Your post is confusing because of run-on sentences and what looks like stream of conscious writing.

If you are finished with your book and have edited it to pristine condition, start looking for agents who represent the genre you write in.

retlaw
10-15-2012, 08:36 AM
Anyway I was wondering if that was true...

1) Will trying to publish a M/M romance series first affect my chances of getting a agent negatively? And

2)if I do publish that series first should I wait to get an agent later when I try to publish the romantic suspense?


1) It is - in my experience - not true.

2) I'm sorry - I know you are knew here, and as a pretty new person myself, I would really like to be of help. However, this sentence is very difficult for me to put together. Let me just say this --- if you can get an agent, that's a good thing - don't put it off. AFAICT, nothing in the possible scenarios I imagine you're talking about here would adversely effect you getting in agent - in fact, some might help, like getting a major publisher to put your books to press.

best of luck

Akria
10-15-2012, 11:34 AM
It seems like no one understood my post so I'll try to simplify...

[Question 1] Basically I have two book series that I want to try to publish. Will trying to get the Male/male contemporary novel series published first instead of the romantic suspense novel series affect my chances of getting a agent negatively?

[Question 2] If I decide to try and publish the M/M contemp novel first, should I wait to get an Agent?

I'm leaning towards Samhain publishing for my M/M series since it fits their guidelines the most.

Stacia Kane
10-15-2012, 03:57 PM
If you're looking at submitting to Samhain, you do not need an agent. They take unagented submissions. I know nothing about the m/m market outside of erotic epublishing, so can't say whether it would be a genre that interests an agent.

You start looking for an agent when your work is ready to submit. If you're looking at submitting to major (i.e. NY or larger agent-only indies) publishers for your romantic suspense, then you should start looking for an agent for it when it's ready. In your query you would then say that you have an m/m novel about to be published by ______, if it has found a publisher. If it has not, don't mention it; it will be something you'll discuss with the agent when and if they decide to offer representation.

Having an m/m published will not negatively affect your chances of securing representation.


Once you have 50 posts here--and so have gotten to know us all a bit, and vice versa--you can post your query in the Query Letter Hell section of Share Your Work, and/or you can post the first few pages of your mss, for critique. It's also always appreciated if you want to head for SYW and offer critique to others; you can do that without having 50 posts. :)

Akria
10-15-2012, 04:03 PM
Having an m/m published will not negatively affect your chances of securing representation.

Thank you.
I was curious cause I had heard differently so I wanted to make sure just in case I needed to change my publishing order.



Thanks to everyone who answered!

profen4
10-15-2012, 04:08 PM
It seems like no one understood my post so I'll try to simplify...

[Question 1] Basically I have two book series that I want to try to publish. Will trying to get the Male/male contemporary novel series published first instead of the romantic suspense novel series affect my chances of getting a agent negatively?

[Question 2] If I decide to try and publish the M/M contemp novel first, should I wait to get an Agent?

I'm leaning towards Samhain publishing for my M/M series since it fits their guidelines the most.
ao chip bon bon (http://doxinh.com/danh-muc/thuong-hieu-do-lot/hang-bon-bon/ao-nguc-bon-bon/) do lot nu (http://doxinh.com.vn/danh-muc/do-lot-nu/) khan so sinh (http://doxinh.vn/danh-muc/do-so-sinh-cho-be/khan-va-ta-so-sinh/) ban buon (http://trangbanbuon.com/) vay cong so (http://trangbanbuon.vn/danh-muc/thoi-trang-cong-so/vay-cong-so/) cho thue trang phuc bieu dien (http://roses.vn/studio/cho-thue-trang-phuc/)
1. Get an agent
2. Don't wait to try to get an agent. It can take months and months to get an agent (or even years in some cases). If you have the manuscripts done, start submitting. For both your manuscripts.

quicklime
10-15-2012, 05:45 PM
akria,

one problem with the internet is good advice and bad advice are not really indicated as such, and another is the timeframe isn't always clear. Ten or fifteen years ago, it was far easier to get a foot in the door without an agent, and the advice was to get your first offer from a house, THEN take that to an agent and let them work on it. It made sense; much easier to draw your dream agent when all you have to say is "I'm in; want your commission?"

Now it is far harder to get in without an agent, so rather than waiting three years in a slush pile, it is advantageous to get the agent first.


Note both of those apply to larger houses, mostly, and as mentioned, your m/m is probably niche enough the above is immaterial, but that is probably the source of your "conflicting" advice; the two strategies are the product of very different time periods.

Akria
10-15-2012, 06:12 PM
akria,

one problem with the internet is good advice and bad advice are not really indicated as such, and another is the timeframe isn't always clear. Ten or fifteen years ago, it was far easier to get a foot in the door without an agent, and the advice was to get your first offer from a house, THEN take that to an agent and let them work on it. It made sense; much easier to draw your dream agent when all you have to say is "I'm in; want your commission?"

Now it is far harder to get in without an agent, so rather than waiting three years in a slush pile, it is advantageous to get the agent first.


Note both of those apply to larger houses, mostly, and as mentioned, your m/m is probably niche enough the above is immaterial, but that is probably the source of your "conflicting" advice; the two strategies are the product of very different time periods.

The problem wasn't so much as to when to get an agent but more is it harder to get an agent after pursuing M/M genre. I heard that publishing in a small niche first will scare away agents. So I was wondering if I should try to publish the romantic suspense first cause it's a larger and popular genre.

I always planned on getting a agent. I just don't want any negative shadows over the chance of getting one.




@Profen4
Yeah thanks. I think that's best def since I can't take that time to also work on more novels.

retlaw
10-15-2012, 06:51 PM
It seems like no one understood my post so I'll try to simplify...

Akira - an awesome anime movie btw :) - it isn't that I didn't understand the question; rather I couldn't understand the question. Several repliers remarked on also having this difficulty. I point out the difference not to be snarky, but to elucidate, to help you better frame your next posting.

Of course, as always, you gather more flies with honey. There is so much subjective about posting in forums, so I apologize in advance if this was not your intent, but you seem to be telling those gracious with their help that you'll be nice and give them an explanation that is within their ken. Which, given the confusion w/ur OP, could appear more like vinegar than honey.

Best of luck to you!

profen4
10-15-2012, 06:52 PM
@Profen4
Yeah thanks. I think that's best def since I can't take that time to also work on more novels.

Yeah, as someone who has been burned (more than once), I can tell you that I wouldn't ever sign another publishing contract without an agent - a good agent. Like I said, I don't know about the m/m market, but I would look at publishers marketplace to see if there are agents who rep that kind of stuff. If there are, and your research on those agents reveals they're legit, I'd be querying them now.
ao nguc bon bon (http://doxinh.com/danh-muc/thuong-hieu-do-lot/hang-bon-bon/ao-nguc-bon-bon/) quan ao nu han quoc (http://doxinh.com.vn/danh-muc/quan-ao-thoi-trang/quan-ao-nu/) yem an cao cap cho be (http://doxinh.vn/danh-muc/do-so-sinh-cho-be/yem-an-cho-be/) quan ao ban buon (http://trangbanbuon.com/) vest cong so (http://trangbanbuon.vn/danh-muc/thoi-trang-cong-so/vest-cong-so/) cho thue trang phuc hoa trang (http://roses.vn/studio/cho-thue-trang-phuc/)
Good luck.

Barbara R.
10-15-2012, 07:05 PM
I learn something new here all the time. WHAT is the m/m market????

Just taking a guess that the genre is for gay males (correct me if I'm wrong), then it might be a good idea for you to publish those books under one name and straight romances under another, because publishers (and therefore agents) prefer genre writers to stick to one genre in order to build a following. That would be regardless of whether you self-publish, go with a small house, or try the agent--major Six route.

As for when to seek an agent, you're best off starting sooner rather than later. You need to target your list of potential agents carefully. Find out which agents rep. your genre or genres and focus on them. Agents who do genre books don't usually restrict their list to a single genre, so it's perfectly possible to find one agent for both your genres.

Good luck, and let me know what m/m means, please.

Akria
10-15-2012, 07:13 PM
Akira - an awesome anime movie btw :) - it isn't that I didn't understand the question; rather I couldn't understand the question. Several repliers remarked on also having this difficulty. I point out the difference not to be snarky, but to elucidate, to help you better frame your next posting.

Of course, as always, you gather more flies with honey. There is so much subjective about posting in forums, so I apologize in advance if this was not your intent, but you seem to be telling those gracious with their help that you'll be nice and give them an explanation that is within their ken. Which, given the confusion w/ur OP, could appear more like vinegar than honey.

Best of luck to you!
It's Akria....but I know of the anime a lot of people confuse the names and think I meant Akira. It's was awkward the first time someone tried to tell me I spelled it wrong....

Any way as you said, you didn't know my intent, so I guess the post was your way of expelling your feelings. The thing is I think it's best to take something as someone gives it def on the internet where it's hard to figure emotions. Something that was mentioned stepped on my toes cause its one of my weakness and as a writer its not a good thing, but i didn't jump and say/reply that the intent was outside the box because they were just telling the truth.

People said it was hard to understand so I changed it as simple as that. Someone mentioned run on lines and conscious writing. So I stripped it bare and identified each thing. Hoping that I could get exactly what I asked for....help.

Akria
10-15-2012, 07:29 PM
I learn something new here all the time. WHAT is the m/m market????

Just taking a guess that the genre is for gay males (correct me if I'm wrong), then it might be a good idea for you to publish those books under one name and straight romances under another, because publishers (and therefore agents) prefer genre writers to stick to one genre in order to build a following. That would be regardless of whether you self-publish, go with a small house, or try the agent--major Six route.

As for when to seek an agent, you're best off starting sooner rather than later. You need to target your list of potential agents carefully. Find out which agents rep. your genre or genres and focus on them. Agents who do genre books don't usually restrict their list to a single genre, so it's perfectly possible to find one agent for both your genres.

Good luck, and let me know what m/m means, please.
That's what I was originally thinking to go under two names one for each genre (both in which I want to keep writing for).

And you're right M/M stands for male/male or gay romance/erotica. I guess I should have used alternate romance cause that's what they're formally called but I thought more people would understand if I used m/m cause that's what you'd see on most website that mention those types of books. I originally thought m/m novels were getting bigger, they're def bigger than f/f (but that's fact in everything books,movie, anime, fan fiction). It seems minuscule when compared to straight novels.

Akria
10-15-2012, 07:37 PM
Yeah, as someone who has been burned (more than once), I can tell you that I wouldn't ever sign another publishing contract without an agent - a good agent. Like I said, I don't know about the m/m market, but I would look at publishers marketplace to see if there are agents who rep that kind of stuff. If there are, and your research on those agents reveals they're legit, I'd be querying them now.

Good luck.

Yeah thats why I want an agent. Some M/M writers say they don't see the worth in getting an agent (instead they get a small time lawyer) because pay out and the smallness of the genre. But I don't wanna just focus on one genre so I think it's better to have an agent--hopefully someone that is willing to cover me on both genres. I hear that usually that's not a problem though.

Stacia Kane
10-15-2012, 08:14 PM
The problem wasn't so much as to when to get an agent but more is it harder to get an agent after pursuing M/M genre. I heard that publishing in a small niche first will scare away agents.


I don't know where you heard this, but it isn't true.

Akria
10-15-2012, 08:18 PM
I don't know where you heard this, but it isn't true.

Yeah I pretty much understand that now...but it's always better to be sure now than sorry later. Nwhat you always hear/read isn't always true so without the experience its good to have somewhere to ask questions. Thanks for the help.

Old Hack
10-15-2012, 08:46 PM
Akira - an awesome anime movie btw :) - it isn't that I didn't understand the question; rather I couldn't understand the question. Several repliers remarked on also having this difficulty. I point out the difference not to be snarky, but to elucidate, to help you better frame your next posting.

Of course, as always, you gather more flies with honey. There is so much subjective about posting in forums, so I apologize in advance if this was not your intent, but you seem to be telling those gracious with their help that you'll be nice and give them an explanation that is within their ken. Which, given the confusion w/ur OP, could appear more like vinegar than honey.

Best of luck to you!


It's Akria....but I know of the anime a lot of people confuse the names and think I meant Akira. It's was awkward the first time someone tried to tell me I spelled it wrong....

Any way as you said, you didn't know my intent, so I guess the post was your way of expelling your feelings. The thing is I think it's best to take something as someone gives it def on the internet where it's hard to figure emotions. Something that was mentioned stepped on my toes cause its one of my weakness and as a writer its not a good thing, but i didn't jump and say/reply that the intent was outside the box because they were just telling the truth.

People said it was hard to understand so I changed it as simple as that. Someone mentioned run on lines and conscious writing. So I stripped it bare and identified each thing. Hoping that I could get exactly what I asked for....help.

If either of you ever see a post you find rude, or inappropriate, or wrong, let a mod know. Use the "report post" button (it's that red triangle with the exclamation mark inside it, at the bottom left of the post), or send a room-mod a PM.

It's much more constructive than bickering in-thread, however mildly you bicker. It helps keep things friendly, and moving along nicely.

I'm not telling you off, so please don't think I am. Consider this a helpful pointer for everyone in-thread. Thank you!

Akria
10-15-2012, 08:56 PM
If either of you ever see a post you find rude, or inappropriate, or wrong, let a mod know. Use the "report post" button (it's that red triangle with the exclamation mark inside it, at the bottom left of the post), or send a room-mod a PM.

It's much more constructive than bickering in-thread, however mildly you bicker. It helps keep things friendly, and moving along nicely.

I'm not telling you off, so please don't think I am. Consider this a helpful pointer for everyone in-thread. Thank you!

I don't have a problem. I don't even define it as bickering. Retlaw had a certain emotional feeling towards my post (which may or may not be argued that advice was also offered) and I let it be known that the feeling or thought process was incorrect. Personally I feel that a difference can solved between two people before it turns into either a problem or something that has to be brought to others but that's just me.

Since I'm new and would prefer not to 'rock the boat' so to speak I'll keep that in mind tho. Thank you.

Little Ming
10-15-2012, 09:24 PM
Yeah thats why I want an agent. Some M/M writers say they don't see the worth in getting an agent (instead they get a small time lawyer) because pay out and the smallness of the genre. But I don't wanna just focus on one genre so I think it's better to have an agent--hopefully someone that is willing to cover me on both genres. I hear that usually that's not a problem though.

I don't know what you mean by "small time lawyer," but unless you hire a lawyer who specializes in publishing, a general lawyer or a lawyer who specializes in felony DUI might not be the best person to handle a literary contract. And in the long run, if something does go wrong between the author and the publisher, it might cost the author more to use a lawyer than an agent.

Akria
10-15-2012, 09:45 PM
I don't know what you mean by "small time lawyer," but unless you hire a lawyer who specializes in publishing, a general lawyer or a lawyer who specializes in felony DUI might not be the best person to handle a literary contract. And in the long run, if something does go wrong between the author and the publisher, it might cost the author more to use a lawyer than an agent.

I can't explain what they meant cause if it doesn't concern me I usually don't care so I don't seek further information. A lawyer isn't a route I want to take so I haven't or won't give that path much thought (unless I found for some reason that I had to).

M/M (or any lgbqt) publishing is a small market no mater how you cut and add the numbers which means small money. A author whose genre is only focused there may feel like its a waste to even have an agent who will take 15% of that (not all but some). Then on top of that epublishing is very popular in that genre. Some feel like they can have their lawyer cover their contract concerns. Def F/F writers cause its a genre that's even more so non-existent. Even though you have houses like Loose Id looking to expand on lgbqt that market is still very small.

retlaw
10-15-2012, 10:44 PM
It's Akria....but I know of the anime a lot of people confuse the names and think I meant Akira. It's was awkward the first time someone tried to tell me I spelled it wrong....

HA! I promise to never do that, and to never get your name wrong again. My apologies for that & thanks for taking it in stride.

Thank you for your thoughtful post. It's great that you've found responses helpful. Best of luck to you and your future endeavors.

retlaw
10-15-2012, 10:46 PM
I was so relieved to read your post. Thank you, Akria! :) Good to know that good intentions can still make it through even in forums!! :D


I don't have a problem. I don't even define it as bickering. Retlaw had a certain emotional feeling towards my post (which may or may not be argued that advice was also offered) and I let it be known that the feeling or thought process was incorrect. Personally I feel that a difference can solved between two people before it turns into either a problem or something that has to be brought to others but that's just me.

Since I'm new and would prefer not to 'rock the boat' so to speak I'll keep that in mind tho. Thank you.

Akria
10-15-2012, 10:56 PM
HA! I promise to never do that, and to never get your name wrong again. My apologies for that & thanks for taking it in stride.

Thank you for your thoughtful post. It's great that you've found responses helpful. Best of luck to you and your future endeavors.

Nah it's not a big deal. You should hear people talk about my real name. No one pronounces it right I had a teacher tell me my mother spelled it wrong...needless to say he was upset when I tried to explain to him that he was wrong. Graduation was fun to when it was my turn the announcers kept having so many false starts with my name I just walked by and said it for her.

I'm not angry about it. You guys were right it was hard to understand my edit of my post was to make everyone understand so I could get some valuable help. My writing career is important to me and even though I hate to ask for help I know there will be times I'll have to buck up and be a big girl and do what has to be done. So disrespect was the furthest thing from my mind.

Anyway thanks for answering and trying to help.

retlaw
10-16-2012, 12:50 AM
Nah it's not a big deal. You should hear people talk about my real name. No one pronounces it right I had a teacher tell me my mother spelled it wrong...

LOL!


I'm not angry about it. You guys were right it was hard to understand my edit of my post was to make everyone understand so I could get some valuable help. My writing career is important to me and even though I hate to ask for help I know there will be times I'll have to buck up and be a big girl and do what has to be done. So disrespect was the furthest thing from my mind.

Anyway thanks for answering and trying to help.

yeah, it was great to meet you - don't be a stranger! :D

Corinne Duyvis
10-16-2012, 02:29 AM
Akria, I think you're right in that many agents may not see the point in being involved in your M/M novels if you're targeting the e-publishing market. The advances there are small to non-existent, and you can approach them on your own, anyway.

You have various options, though:

1. Forget the M/M for now and focus on your other work. Look for an agent if you're aiming for big, mainstream publishers.

2. Publish the M/M, and look for an agent with your other work. You can publish these side-by-side using a pseudonym, keeping them entirely separate. (However, your agent should still be aware that you're publishing other books/genres even if they're not involved.)

3. Publish the M/M, look for an agent with your other work, and once you're signed up, ask if they'd mind taking a look at your M/M contracts as well. Many agents might not be interested in working with such small publishers under normal circumstances, but they're happy to make exceptions for existing clients. (You may or may not be out 15% then. It'll vary by agent.)

4. Focus on the M/M, build up a name, then branch out with your other work.

... etc. Mix and match as desired. It all depends on what you want from your career.

Agents that focus on romance e-publishers DO exist, and you may be interested in pursuing those with your M/M, but opinions vary on how useful those agents are. I know there have been some discussions on the forum, but I'll be damned if I know where off-hand.

I hope that's helpful. Good luck :)

Akria
10-16-2012, 03:19 AM
Akria, I think you're right in that many agents may not see the point in being involved in your M/M novels if you're targeting the e-publishing market. The advances there are small to non-existent, and you can approach them on your own, anyway.

You have various options, though:

1. Forget the M/M for now and focus on your other work. Look for an agent if you're aiming for big, mainstream publishers.

2. Publish the M/M, and look for an agent with your other work. You can publish these side-by-side using a pseudonym, keeping them entirely separate. (However, your agent should still be aware that you're publishing other books/genres even if they're not involved.)

3. Publish the M/M, look for an agent with your other work, and once you're signed up, ask if they'd mind taking a look at your M/M contracts as well. Many agents might not be interested in working with such small publishers under normal circumstances, but they're happy to make exceptions for existing clients. (You may or may not be out 15% then. It'll vary by agent.)

4. Focus on the M/M, build up a name, then branch out with your other work.

... etc. Mix and match as desired. It all depends on what you want from your career.

Agents that focus on romance e-publishers DO exist, and you may be interested in pursuing those with your M/M, but opinions vary on how useful those agents are. I know there have been some discussions on the forum, but I'll be damned if I know where off-hand.

I hope that's helpful. Good luck :)

Yeah...that's what I was trying to explain the first time around. I guess you have to understand a little bit about the smallness of the M/M market. If I do the M/M series first I'll most likely have to and will wait to get representation cause I don't think agents will jump to work with me in that genre. I could try to research really hard and see if I could find one but I'm not sure the time would be worth it.

I know I want a agent, so I guess it's just a question of deciding when and making the switch to fit that decision.

profen4
10-16-2012, 06:20 AM
Yeah...that's what I was trying to explain the first time around. I guess you have to understand a little bit about the smallness of the M/M market. If I do the M/M series first I'll most likely have to and will wait to get representation cause I don't think agents will jump to work with me in that genre. I could try to research really hard and see if I could find one but I'm not sure the time would be worth it.

I know I want a agent, so I guess it's just a question of deciding when and making the switch to fit that decision.


Just my 2 cents, but if it were me, I'd seek the agent with the contemp. romance you have, and maybe sub out the M/M on the side. That is, if, and only if, m/m isn't something larger publishers produce and you have decided that small presses are where you see the right fit for that one.

Then, if you get an agent with your contemp. romance, you can ask for advice on the m/m, and at the very least they might be willing to take a look at any contract you get offered to help you avoid the traps.

If, however, you don't get an agent before you get an offer on your m/m, I'd still seek advice from an agent. There are a handful of agents who will review contracts and advise or even negotiate deals for a flat fee, or on an hourly basis.
ao lot bon bon (http://doxinh.com/danh-muc/thuong-hieu-do-lot/hang-bon-bon/ao-nguc-bon-bon/) quan ao nu (http://doxinh.com.vn/danh-muc/quan-ao-thoi-trang/quan-ao-nu/) tat so sinh cho be (http://doxinh.vn/danh-muc/do-so-sinh-cho-be/tat-so-sinh/) chan vay cong so nu (http://trangbanbuon.com/danh-muc/thoi-trang-cong-so/chan-vay-cong-so/) thoi trang cong so nu (http://trangbanbuon.vn/danh-muc/thoi-trang-cong-so/) cho thue trang phuc (http://roses.vn/studio/cho-thue-trang-phuc/)
Good luck with whatever you do.

cheers

retlaw
10-16-2012, 08:56 PM
Hey - came across this & thought you might be interested:

http://etopiapressblog.wordpress.com/submission-calls/

Akria
10-16-2012, 10:41 PM
Hey - came across this & thought you might be interested:

http://etopiapressblog.wordpress.com/submission-calls/

Oh thanks, but I already have a first choice (Samhain) and a second choice...but maybe if neither works out I'll try there after some research.