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GeorgeK
10-10-2012, 08:05 PM
If someone builds a deerstand (low quality treehouse), how long before their scent goes away such that they can expect to use it?

Assume that they were not wearing any scent masking when they built it, but will when they go to use it.

Drachen Jager
10-10-2012, 08:14 PM
From what I understand of the nature of deer, it's not the scent that would be a problem. Deer aren't so much afraid of the scent of Man as they're skittish around any new scent. Once the stand had been there a week or two it would just be another background scent to them.

As for how long until the scent disappears, it would be more dependent on weather than time. A week of rain, perhaps, or a month of dry weather until the scent level was so low it wouldn't register for a deer.

GeorgeK
10-10-2012, 10:30 PM
So then private eye watches his target build a tree stand and if he wants to sort of sabotage the target's chances of getting a deer he should, what? wait 5 days and go pee on the tree? leave a smelly T-shirt nearby? I figure using a stinkbomb would be obvious for the bad guy to notice.

Old Hack
10-10-2012, 10:55 PM
Sprinkling a bit of diesel around might do it.

archerjoe
10-10-2012, 10:56 PM
I've heard of people sabotaging clandestine hunters by peeing near the illicit blind.

Last year, my nephew was sitting in a long-established ground blind but the deer could smell him in there. He heard a deer snorting and he peeked out in time to see it leave. Now he washes with scent-block.

ClareGreen
10-10-2012, 10:57 PM
Leave predator manure on it/around it. Some zoos sell lion dung as a way to keeping cats off your garden - and a lot of predators bury theirs for a reason.

GeorgeK
10-10-2012, 11:46 PM
Leave predator manure on it/around it. Some zoos sell lion dung as a way to keeping cats off your garden - and a lot of predators bury theirs for a reason.

"Um, excuse me but where's your big cat feces?"

I never thought of that. But would a North American deer recognize an african predator's feces as a threat?

Old Hack
10-10-2012, 11:51 PM
When we still had poultry we used to buy pelleted lion dung from the garden centre to put down in places we wanted our rare breed chickens to avoid. It worked a treat. So yes, they would.

Drachen Jager
10-10-2012, 11:59 PM
I'd imagine the meat in the scat would make it smell like a predator, no matter what continent it came from. Diet is normally more of a determinant than species in that regard (anyone who's ever changed a milk-fed baby's diaper, and a pablum-fed baby's diaper knows that).

GeorgeK
10-11-2012, 12:20 AM
Then there'd be no need to buy it, just eat a porterhouse and a bowl of chili con carne...I'm glad it's not me carrying that bucket around

WeaselFire
10-11-2012, 12:46 AM
I've had deer walk right under a tree while I was up it, setting a blind. :)

Of course, that's the week before season opens, the morning it opens there are no deer visible for five hundred miles. :(

North American deer in somewhat populated areas (Not the high peaks of the Canadian Rockies for example...) are generally more wary of movements and sounds than scents. That said, commercial deer repellents would be the logical deterrent. Though you'd need a lot to cover the range of a decent rifle.

Jeff

shaldna
10-11-2012, 01:40 AM
From what I understand of the nature of deer, it's not the scent that would be a problem. Deer aren't so much afraid of the scent of Man as they're skittish around any new scent. Once the stand had been there a week or two it would just be another background scent to them.

As for how long until the scent disappears, it would be more dependent on weather than time. A week of rain, perhaps, or a month of dry weather until the scent level was so low it wouldn't register for a deer.

In my experience deer aren't so much bothered by smell - most deer here live very close to people or roads - so the smells associated with them aren't such an issue. They tend to worry more about noise and sudden movement - I've been able to sit in teh middle of a feild and watch deer eat, but as soon as I made a noise or moved they were off. Strangely I've been able to ride my horse within a few yards of deer which were hiding in the treeline - they seemed to feel that I couldn't see them, and so long as I didn't appear to threaten them, they were content to wait until I had gone past - deer are, after all, camouflage animals, and when that doesn't work they run.

In terms of building a hide - the scent of man isn't probably going to worry them so much, however, the hide itself will smell of new cut wood, wood treatments, industrial smells that will worry the deer more.



So then private eye watches his target build a tree stand and if he wants to sort of sabotage the target's chances of getting a deer he should, what? wait 5 days and go pee on the tree? leave a smelly T-shirt nearby? I figure using a stinkbomb would be obvious for the bad guy to notice.

Pee is a good deterrant - i've seen protesters do that even here (even though we aren't allowed to hunt deer here anymore). Predator faeces too - any carnivore will do, it's the smell of the processed food that gets to them - ever notice how horse and cow poo smells very sweet and heavy, while your own poo after a steak dinner is, well, less than fragrant?



Sprinkling a bit of diesel around might do it.

Again, it depends - if there is a road nearby, or an access track, you might find that the deer aren't too bothered by the smell of diesel. If you are well off the beaten track though, it's a potent enough smell that it would work.


I've heard of people sabotaging clandestine hunters by peeing near the illicit blind.

Last year, my nephew was sitting in a long-established ground blind but the deer could smell him in there. He heard a deer snorting and he peeked out in time to see it leave. Now he washes with scent-block.

The thing is, scent-block won't mask your own scent as well as you think ti does.

Poachers are a big problem here, and in my time I've known a couple. Basically you don't wash for a week - no soap, no toothpaste, no deodorant, you wear your clothes for a couple of days so they smell of you, rather than soap. Strangely the human smell is much less obvious than the 'clean' smells - even though it doesn't seem that way to our nose. You have to bear in mind that we have been condidioned to accept those smells as normal, whereas our filthy smells we tend to find overpowering.

You don't eat anything processed, nothing you wouldn't find local to your hunting ground.


Leave predator manure on it/around it. Some zoos sell lion dung as a way to keeping cats off your garden - and a lot of predators bury theirs for a reason.

Dog poo or cat poo works very well too - ask some friends for the contents of their litter tray - cat poo is VERY strong smelling and quite small, so could go unnoticed to the naked eye (unless you were very good)


"Um, excuse me but where's your big cat feces?"

I never thought of that. But would a North American deer recognize an african predator's feces as a threat?

It's not about the individual faeces smell, but rather the TYPE of poo. Ever shared a bathroom with someone who eats two meat meals a day? It's rough - the smell is very sickly, bloody almost, overpowering. Compare that with the poo of a vegetarian, for example, and you'll find that their poo is quite sweet and heavy smelling (I can't belive I'm actually saying this)


I'd imagine the meat in the scat would make it smell like a predator, no matter what continent it came from. Diet is normally more of a determinant than species in that regard (anyone who's ever changed a milk-fed baby's diaper, and a pablum-fed baby's diaper knows that).

Yup. This.


I've had deer walk right under a tree while I was up it, setting a blind. :)

Of course, that's the week before season opens, the morning it opens there are no deer visible for five hundred miles. :(

Same with foxes. The little shits tear your lambs apart all bloody summer, but as soon as autumn rolls around you can't get hold of a single one.

BDSEmpire
10-11-2012, 06:22 AM
Heh, deer are seriously obnoxious animals. They know right when hunting season starts and vanish into the mists. Until then, well, I suppose you could set up a blind on the front lawn but your significant other might complain a bit.

http://users.moscow.com/groovydave/clarkston_deer.jpg

Canotila
10-11-2012, 11:28 AM
It's not about the individual faeces smell, but rather the TYPE of poo. Ever shared a bathroom with someone who eats two meat meals a day? It's rough - the smell is very sickly, bloody almost, overpowering. Compare that with the poo of a vegetarian, for example, and you'll find that their poo is quite sweet and heavy smelling (I can't belive I'm actually saying this)


A couple of successful hunter friends of mine eat strictly vegetarian food for a month before they go out hunting. One even buys chlorophyll tabs and takes those every day. They both stop wearing deodorant too. My nose is pretty sensitive, but honestly neither or them has any noticeable body odor while on their hunting diet/supplement regimen despite the lack of toiletries. They bring home game every year. I'm not dedicated enough to stop eating meat forever but it did prompt me to start taking chlorophyll and it really does cut down on body odor just by itself. Never purposefully smelled the difference between deuces though.

Something we use to repel deer from the garden is blood meal. You scatter it liberally around the area you want to keep them away from. It works really well for about a week or until it rains. Then you add more and it works again. If the PI wanted to keep deer away from the blind he could dump it across the game trail about a hundred yards out in both directions. If it was me I'd do multiple methods to be sure. Leave dog doo, people doo, urine, blood meal, etc. all around the area. One or a combination would probably keep them away.

quicklime
10-11-2012, 04:42 PM
So then private eye watches his target build a tree stand and if he wants to sort of sabotage the target's chances of getting a deer he should, what? wait 5 days and go pee on the tree? leave a smelly T-shirt nearby? I figure using a stinkbomb would be obvious for the bad guy to notice.


how is your guy hunting? I know folks who use a 25-06 and shoot past 400 yards, in which case they could probably hunt the stand the very next day. Someone with a bow, shooting 30 yards, especially in very open terrain, will have a harder time.....but even then, with 10mph winds from the west, a deer might not approach the stand from downwind for some time but walk right up to it from upwind. Or he might walk up anyway--deer are funny.

if a guy wanted to mess with the hunter, i have heard of folks spreading mothballs and/or chunks of ivory soap in the area, but I have my doubts.

GeorgeK
10-12-2012, 06:10 PM
I haven't decided how the bad guy will be hunting as in what type of weapon, but the setting is woods, so it can't be long range.

GeorgeK
10-12-2012, 06:26 PM
I took a walk in the woods yesterday (I haven't been able to do that in years due to health problems, so that in itself was a victory) to try and get the feel of a scene and came upon either a very large whitetail doe or a smallish doe elk. I say she, because I did not see any antlers, but to be fair she was doing an excellent job of keeping brush and cedars interposed between us. There could have been antlers that blended into the branches as far as I could see. I think elk because her behavior was not typical of deer around here and she scared off my dog (pyr/maremma cross). I was like, "Um hey girl, where are you running off to?"

She ( the elk) started stamping similar to how our burro will when she wants treats and similar to how our sheep will before they decide to ram. The force of the sound was very akin to our 400 pound burro. Then she started making this call that lasted 2-3 seconds each time and was not quite a cough, sneeze, howl or honk. It was sort of like, "Haruunphleee!" That doesn't do it justice.

Given that it sounded like a warning, I turned back and as I stepped to the side, she jumped without warning or noticeable sound. She went about ten teet high and about 20 feet away and in air spun to keep facing me while also keeping scrub and cedars in the way such that it I had been a hunter I would not have a clear shot.

As I retreated into the distance she continued to stamp and trumpet.

It was cool!

PorterStarrByrd
10-12-2012, 06:39 PM
I've had deer walk right under a tree while I was up it, setting a blind. :)

Of course, that's the week before season opens, the morning it opens there are no deer visible for five hundred miles. :(

North American deer in somewhat populated areas (Not the high peaks of the Canadian Rockies for example...) are generally more wary of movements and sounds than scents. That said, commercial deer repellents would be the logical deterrent. Though you'd need a lot to cover the range of a decent rifle.

Jeff


You, sir, are evidently a deer hunter and not a good marketing target. Up here, I've heard the locals tell me they build tree blinds because deer can't see 'up'. There is so much mis-woodlore around. Even some of it here :)

I hunt deer by waiting for wet days and moving though the woods quietly until I stumble upon one and I get over the surprise quickly enough to shoot. (well' that's a simple way to explain my more complex strategy) Treestands are nice, read that 'more comfortable', and useful if the hunter has scouted the area and knows where to put one.

For the most part the locals up here feed the deer carrots for a couple of weeks and wait for them to come to breakfast on opening day (or maybe a day or two before that). Me, I don't like orange venison. (and I've got a stray ethic or two)

and ..
about the only way to sabotage a tree stand is with fire, which has some nasty side effects.