Turmoiled Greece staggers into next logical stage of financial collapse: the rise of neo-Nazism

Plot Device

A woman said to write like a man.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 14, 2007
Messages
11,973
Reaction score
1,866
Location
Next to the dirigible docking station
Website
sandwichboardroom.blogspot.com
WARNING: This thread is a self-Godwinning one by default.

They are called the Golden Dawn. Here is a photo of their current party leader, Nikolaos Michaloliakos, and that emblem hanging on the way behind him is the flag representing their political party.

(Okay, look, I realize it's a multi-millenia old bit of graphic design called the "Greek key" and that the decorative graphic has appeared on ancient Greek pottery and that it has adorned the trim of Greek buildings and Greek tunics alike for thousands of years. But still.... The word "creepy" is most appropriate in ths instance.)


373625.jpg





They are making major headway in converting to their cause existing members in the lower ranks of the Greek military, as well as police officers in many of the various city and town police forces throughout Greece. (Sound familiar, my history-savvy AWer's?)

The real icing on this Godwin cake is that they recently won 19 seats in the Greek Parliament.

Meanwhile, I have a cyber-acquaintance in Greece who has reported (to a group that I hang with at a different message forum) that Greek citizens are going to the police to report thefts and burlgaries and vandalisms, and those police officers who are members of Golden Dawn are saying to these citizens (my paraphrase of his claims): "It was those dirty immigrants who broke into your home. They are ruining Greece and are the real reason why we are in such a huge financial mess. Go back to your neighborhood and contact this man whose name I am writing down for you. He is the local organizer of the neigborhood watch group called Golden Dawn for your neighborhood. He will arrange to protect your house and you will be safe then. And don't trust the immigrants. We Greeks need to band together and make arrangements to get rid of them once and for all and take back our country for the good of all true Greeks."


Yes. Brownshirts are coming to Greece VERY soon.





http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/01/w...ight-wing-extremists.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Right-Wing Extremists’ Popularity Rising Rapidly in Greece

By LIZ ALDERMAN

September 30, 2012


ATHENSThe video, which went viral in Greece last month, shows about 40 burly men, led by Giorgos Germenis, a lawmaker with the right-wing Golden Dawn party, marching through a night market in the town of Rafina demanding that dark-skinned merchants show permits.

Some do, and they are left alone. But the action quickly picks up, as the men, wearing black T-shirts with the party’s name, destroy a stall with clubs and scatter the merchandise. “We saw a few illegal immigrants selling their wares,” Mr. Germenis says in the video. “We did what Golden Dawn has to do. And now we’re going to church to pay our respects to the Madonna.”

Just a few months ago, the name Golden Dawn was something to be whispered in Greece.

But three months after the extremist right-wing group won an electoral foothold in Parliament, talk of Golden Dawn seems to be on everybody’s lips.

In cafes, taxis and bars, Greeks across the political spectrum are discussing the palpable surge in Golden Dawn’s popularity, which has risen in recent political polls even as the group steps up a campaign of vigilantism and attacks against immigrants....




And here's a lovely article from July of this year where a sort of a "Krystalnacht, Take II" is being threatened against Greek shop owners who aren't Greek born:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/11/w...mmigrant-violence-follows.html?pagewanted=all

Greek Far Right Hangs a Target on Immigrants

By LIZ ALDERMAN

July 10, 2012


ATHENS — A week after an extremist right-wing party gained an electoral foothold in Greece’s Parliament earlier this summer, 50 of its members riding motorbikes and armed with heavy wooden poles roared through Nikaia, a gritty suburb west of here, to telegraph their new power.

As townspeople watched, several of them said in interviews, the men careened around the main square, some brandishing shields emblazoned with swastikalike symbols, and delivered an ultimatum to immigrants whose businesses have catered to Nikaia’s Greeks for nearly a decade.

“They said: ‘You’re the cause of Greece’s problems. You have seven days to close or we’ll burn your shop — and we’ll burn you,’ ” said Mohammed Irfan, a legal Pakistani immigrant who owns a hair salon and two other stores. When he called the police for help, he said, the officer who answered said they did not have time to come to the aid of immigrants like him....
 
Last edited:

crunchyblanket

the Juggernaut of Imperfection
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 18, 2011
Messages
4,870
Reaction score
766
Location
London's grey and pleasant land
oh for fuck's sake.

It was your own leaders....your own nice Greek leaders...that got you into this mess. Those immigrants you've made scapegoats are suffering with the rest of you.

The stupidity burns. How wilfully dense to you have to be to blame an economic crisis on the most downtrodden people in your country? All the while, their leaders continue to live cushy, comfortable lives and draw large salaries. Do they not ask questions? Or does it make them feel better to exercise some nebulous power over the powerless?
 

Plot Device

A woman said to write like a man.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 14, 2007
Messages
11,973
Reaction score
1,866
Location
Next to the dirigible docking station
Website
sandwichboardroom.blogspot.com
Crunchy, this is Weimar Germany all over again. We are witnessing it. This is chillingly sureal to see it unfold so precisely.

My only two questions now are

When will the Greek Parliament get burned to the ground? (and blamed upon the immigrants)

And then who will then be named Emergency Chancellor and granted unlimited Energency Powers?
 

sulong

It's a matter of what is.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 1, 2005
Messages
1,776
Reaction score
127
Location
Portland OR
I'm not surprised by this trend. And it wouldn't surprise me to see this kind of retaliation spread to other Euro zone financially troubled countries.
And even the US.
I think people who are affected by austerity need and want a target to blame the forced changes on.

The banksters, ( who in my opinion ought to be the focus for retribution) as a whole are getting away scott free from this financial debacle.
If governments will not prosecute top level fraud, the people will take matters into their own hands and prosecute who-ever they can.

The whole crowd psychology thing is at play here. (Where's icerose when we need her?)
 

waylander

Who's going for a beer?
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2005
Messages
8,276
Reaction score
1,566
Age
65
Location
London, UK
Crunchy, this is Weimar Germany all over again. We are witnessing it. This is chillingly sureal to see it unfold so precisely.

My only two questions now are

When will the Greek Parliament get burned to the ground? (and blamed upon the immigrants)

And then who will then be named Emergency Chancellor and granted unlimited Energency Powers?

Angela Merkel and the European Central Bank

Golden Dawn were solidly rejected by the electorate at the last general election earlier this year
 
Last edited:

Plot Device

A woman said to write like a man.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 14, 2007
Messages
11,973
Reaction score
1,866
Location
Next to the dirigible docking station
Website
sandwichboardroom.blogspot.com
For those of you who don't already know, I am a prepper (that's an emergency preparedness enthusiast). And I have a bit of advice for anyone alarmed by this same scenario possibly unfolding in your neck of the woods.

1) Sock away for yourself a secret cash reserve in your house of several hundred (or even several thousand) dollars, mostly in small bills (mostly 1's and 5's, and only a very small portion should be 10's and 20's). If we hit a serious banking crunch in this nation in the next 2 years, what will likely happen is they will try to do a major currency restucturing and will therefore have to shut down ALL the banks for several days -- possibly a week-- and so no one will have access to cash during that time period. If you want to buy a gallon of milk or a loaf of bread during that bank shutdown/currency reset period, having a stash of 50's on hand won't do any good. You instead need a stash of 1's and 5's. And a few cannisters full of nickels, pennies, quarters and dimes would be helpful also. (That loaf of bread for $4.75 will cost you $5.00 if you don't have any quarters and the store manager can't make change.) Be prepared for every last ATM machine to be completely emptied of cash during such a banking shutdown or possibly even out of power entirely. So you have to become your own cash machine. And for God's sakes, don't TELL anyone you have a huge stash of cash! And if such a crisis really does hit, and you go to tap into your stash, don't make it obvious to anyone who sees you buying the bread that you have such ease of access to a tidy pile of small denominated bills -- pretend like it's a pain in the butt and pretend you went digging through your car's seats in utter desperation to find these few $5 bills and these meager couple of quarters.

2) Have no less than a month's worth of extra food on hand. (The goal of a seasoned preppers is a year's worth of food, and the Holy Grail is 5 year's worth of food. I personally only have 1 month's worth ... so far.) And if you have a dog or cat, etc, get the poor creature a stockpile of extra pet food as well. Loads and loads of disposable plates, cups, etc is also advisable. (And the paper ones --specifically non-styrofoam and non-plastic-- burn nicely in the fireplace.)

3) Have no less than 4 months worth of additional personal toiletries and additional personal medications. If a trucking disruption were to happen (such as truck drivers everywhere unable to get fuel for their trucks due to zero cash flow for a few days), the pharmacies from coast to coast will be emptied out in less than 3 days. And toilet paper is an absolute must. And diapers -- don't forget the diapers! And buy just a few diaper packages that are one size larger than what your kid uses right now. And try to get a spare set of eyeglasses. If your current eyeglasses break, and if you run out of saline for your contact lenses, you'll be as good as blind.

4) Be prepared for a blackout for any reason (such as local utility distruption due to lack of funding, or skeleton workforce at the power plant, or asshole teenagers smashing things including power lines, or even somone runninng out of gas on the road and careening into a power pole but the utility workers have no fuel or no manpower to get to it). So have the flashlights and candles and emergency blankets on hand too. Having an emergency backup generator is an excellent contingency, but learn how to use it, learn how to hook it up to the house, and please have the extra fuel on hand for it at all times. Even a nice barbeque or gas grill out the back door can be helpful. And if your house has a functioning fireplace, PLEASE call a chimney sweep NOW and have it prepped for winter so you can actually use it -- maybe there's an old bird's nest up inside of it right now, blocking the chimney, or else 20 years worth of creosote buildup just waiting to catch fire next time you venture to light up the hearth. (And don't forget to buy a cord of wood otherwise you'll be breaking up your household furniture to keep warm.)

5) Get a very good portable water filter --the kind that can filter stuff out on the micron level. If the local sewage treatment plant suffers a disruption, your tap water could turn poisonous in a matter of days, maybe even hours.

6) GET TO KNOW YOUR NEIGHBORS!! Make friends NOW while things are perfectly normal. Waiting until freaky stuff starts to happen is already too late.


These measures will become YOUR cushion for buying extra time to spare you against the full brunt of austerity measures that might befall either your region or perhaps the entire nation. And don't imagine the government is going to help you. You need to help yourself.



::ETA::

These Greek neo-Nazis are preying upon people's financial fears and upon their back-to-the-wall helplessness to even accomplish the most basic task of just plain feeding themselves.

Having excess food stores in your house is a form of self-sufficiency that can help you NOT need to swallow your pride and take those Golden Dawn food handouts. And thus these kinds of preparedness steps can help you stay away from that slippery slope toward fascism that the crowd mentality is right now fostering in Greece.
 
Last edited:

Plot Device

A woman said to write like a man.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 14, 2007
Messages
11,973
Reaction score
1,866
Location
Next to the dirigible docking station
Website
sandwichboardroom.blogspot.com
I'm not surprised by this trend. And it wouldn't surprise me to see this kind of retaliation spread to other Euro zone financially troubled countries.

And even the US.

I think people who are affected by austerity need and want a target to blame the forced changes on.

The banksters, ( who in my opinion ought to be the focus for retribution) as a whole are getting away scott free from this financial debacle.

If governments will not prosecute top level fraud, the people will take matters into their own hands and prosecute who-ever they can.

The whole crowd psychology thing is at play here. (Where's icerose when we need her?)


This.

Every last syllable.
 

muravyets

Old revolutionary
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 21, 2011
Messages
7,212
Reaction score
974
Location
Massachusetts, USA
Website
www.facebook.com
It's already spreading to other European countries and has been at beginning-simmer level for many years. As long as Europe has been seeing high immigration from Asia and Africa, the neo-nazis have been barking about it.

Oh, and North America has its barkers, too. Just saying. This is why elections matter.
 

sulong

It's a matter of what is.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 1, 2005
Messages
1,776
Reaction score
127
Location
Portland OR
How is it a logical step for Greeks to embrace nazi-ideology?

It's a ready made strategy for lashing out at somebody or something.
The governments are making a huge mistake by not prosecuting fraud at the highest levels.

Others will pay instead.
 

Maxinquaye

That cheeky buggerer
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
Messages
10,361
Reaction score
1,032
Location
In your mind
Website
maxoneverything.wordpress.com
What does lashing out have to do with nazism?

The Golden Dawn could conceivably capture a portion of the greek vote, true, but from my contacts with greeks their identity is strongly coloured by the vigorous anti-nazi resistance of the last war.

Saying that Greeks would "logically embrace nazi ideology" is as shallow as saying that "The USA would embrace communism". It is generalising greeks into a homogenous mass of people with one set of beliefs and one set of triggers, and discounting the national narratives that give greeks their self-identify as a nation.

Has anyone read the greek papers? It's full of nazi-symbolism. But it's used to disparage germans. Germans are nazis. The majority of the Greeks are more likely to embrace extremes of the left than of the right. I think that a movement like Golden Dawn could conceivably capture up to 20 per cent of the vote. There were quite a few collaborators with the real nazis, after all. But communists and anarchists could capture a lot more than that.
 

clintl

Represent.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
7,611
Reaction score
603
Location
Davis, CA
On the other hand, we saw this with Vladimir Zhirinovsky in Russia 20 years ago, and nothing of significance came of it.
 

Plot Device

A woman said to write like a man.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 14, 2007
Messages
11,973
Reaction score
1,866
Location
Next to the dirigible docking station
Website
sandwichboardroom.blogspot.com
What does lashing out have to do with nazism?

The Golden Dawn could conceivably capture a portion of the greek vote, true, but from my contacts with greeks their identity is strongly coloured by the vigorous anti-nazi resistance of the last war.

Saying that Greeks would "logically embrace nazi ideology" is as shallow as saying that "The USA would embrace communism". It is generalising greeks into a homogenous mass of people with one set of beliefs and one set of triggers, and discounting the national narratives that give greeks their self-identify as a nation.

Has anyone read the greek papers? It's full of nazi-symbolism. But it's used to disparage germans. Germans are nazis. The majority of the Greeks are more likely to embrace extremes of the left than of the right. I think that a movement like Golden Dawn could conceivably capture up to 20 per cent of the vote. There were quite a few collaborators with the real nazis, after all. But communists and anarchists could capture a lot more than that.


They are no longer a fringe group worthy of a late-night TV comedy joke. The Golden Dawn has gained converts among the various police forces throughout Greece. And so now when immigrants call the police for help, these idealogically compromised police officers are shuffling such immigrant pleas for help under the carpet. Members of the Golden Dawn are engaging in vigilantism, and local police are deliberately not stopping them. This is a power shift in an important arm of the rule of law: the police are now compromised. And now Parliament has Golden Dawn members seated in the gallery.

Golden Dawn members are handing out free food in the streets, and with big smiles they are inviting people to come to their meetings --where more food will be served. And in a nation where people are right now killing themselves rather than have to dig through garbage cans for food, this is a powerful motivator.

They are setting up neighborhood watch patrols, and any household which is NOT a Golden Dawn household is left unprotected from burglaries and vandalism. (And I wouldn't put it past them to deliberately do covert vandalisms to "unconverted" households to get them to jump on their bandwagon.) So neighborhood protection during a time when people are breaking into houses for mere scraps of bread is yet more incentive to join Golden Dawn.

This IS a slow yet steady takeover of the entire nation. Its similarity to what happened in Germany under Hitler is uncanny. I believe this can all still be averted though. But to ignore it for too much longer is to allow it to mushroom exponentially to a point of no return.
 

Maxinquaye

That cheeky buggerer
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
Messages
10,361
Reaction score
1,032
Location
In your mind
Website
maxoneverything.wordpress.com
There were two groups that came from nowhere in the last two elections. Syriza and Golden Dawn.

Golden Dawn ended up at 7 per cent of the electorate. Syriza ended up with 27 per cent. Syriza was as marginal as Golden Dawn. Maybe Syriza is a stronger indicator of Greek moods than Golden Dawn is.
 

Plot Device

A woman said to write like a man.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 14, 2007
Messages
11,973
Reaction score
1,866
Location
Next to the dirigible docking station
Website
sandwichboardroom.blogspot.com
There were two groups that came from nowhere in the last two elections. Syriza and Golden Dawn.

Golden Dawn ended up at 7 per cent of the electorate. Syriza ended up with 27 per cent. Syriza was as marginal as Golden Dawn. Maybe Syriza is a stronger indicator of Greek moods than Golden Dawn is.


Has Syriza compromised the integrity of Greek police officers?
 

Maxinquaye

That cheeky buggerer
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
Messages
10,361
Reaction score
1,032
Location
In your mind
Website
maxoneverything.wordpress.com
Is the US a nazi state because you have racist anti-immigrant sheriffs that are elected because they want to shoot illegally immigrated Mexicans or forcibly kick them back over the border?
 

Plot Device

A woman said to write like a man.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 14, 2007
Messages
11,973
Reaction score
1,866
Location
Next to the dirigible docking station
Website
sandwichboardroom.blogspot.com
Is the US a nazi state because you have racist anti-immigrant sheriffs that are elected because they want to shoot illegally immigrated Mexicans or forcibly kick them back over the border?


The law enforcement of the American South was severely compromised due to Klan infiltration all during the first half of the 20th century. Election fraud was rampant, and voter intimidation of blacks and other minroties was SOP for decades. But then in the 1960's, President Johnson stepped in and sent federal agents to put an end to all that bullshit.

All of that silent yet steady terror COULD have spread beyond Southern law enforement and into a sizeable portion of all US households if a) it happeend at a time of severe national economic hardship and widespread hunger, and b) a very well-groomed selection of Klan politicians all ran for key national offices.
 

Maxinquaye

That cheeky buggerer
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
Messages
10,361
Reaction score
1,032
Location
In your mind
Website
maxoneverything.wordpress.com
And yet it was not the logical determinate conclusion that we are now Heiling a white Obama under the Bald Eagle emblem of the United States of AmeriKKKa, just like it's not a logical determinate outcome that Greece must become a nation that Sieg Heils Angela Merkel, because let's face it, the German constitution if far stricter in its seperation of powers and the powers of the chancellor than what you have. It was designed that way. And the Greek narrative is far messier and complex than the dualistic either or that you claim is the "logical next step" of their development.
 

Plot Device

A woman said to write like a man.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 14, 2007
Messages
11,973
Reaction score
1,866
Location
Next to the dirigible docking station
Website
sandwichboardroom.blogspot.com
And yet it was not the logical determinate conclusion that we are now Heiling a white Obama under the Bald Eagle emblem of the United States of AmeriKKKa, just like it's not a logical determinate outcome that Greece must become a nation that Sieg Heils Angela Merkel, because let's face it, the German constitution if far stricter in its seperation of powers and the powers of the chancellor than what you have. It was designed that way. And the Greek narrative is far messier and complex than the dualistic either or that you claim is the "logical next step" of their development.

Why have we strayed off into discussing the current German constitution?

As for "logical next stage" -- people in Greece are hungry. Golden Dawn is feeding them. Logical deduction: they will follow Golden Dawn.
 

sulong

It's a matter of what is.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 1, 2005
Messages
1,776
Reaction score
127
Location
Portland OR
quote from Op
ATHENSThe video, which went viral in Greece last month, shows about 40 burly men, led by Giorgos Germenis, a lawmaker with the right-wing Golden Dawn party, marching through a night market in the town of Rafina demanding that dark-skinned merchants show permits.

Some do, and they are left alone. But the action quickly picks up, as the men, wearing black T-shirts with the party’s name, destroy a stall with clubs and scatter the merchandise. “We saw a few illegal immigrants selling their wares,” Mr. Germenis says in the video. “We did what Golden Dawn has to do. And now we’re going to church to pay our respects to the Madonna.”
(My underline)
People in Greece are hungry. Golden Dawn is feeding them. Logical deduction: Golden Dawn has cornered the moussaka, feta, and and yogurt markets.

I think I agree with your "logical deduction" rugcat. Although for different reasons.
 

muravyets

Old revolutionary
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 21, 2011
Messages
7,212
Reaction score
974
Location
Massachusetts, USA
Website
www.facebook.com
I don't think human political decisions are that reductive (is that a word?). Politicos like to think of populations as mindless herds they can steer wherever they want from time to time, but in fact, it's not really true. Logical next steps often fail to materialize and logical should-never-happen steps sometimes drop on us from out of nowhere, depending on the broader trend of societal attitudes and desires.

This is why I tend to reject the idea of the innocence of the population of a democracy if they just happen to vote into power, oh, say, Nazis. That is almost never an accident even if it is later realized to have been a mistake.

In any country that is undergoing the upheavals Greece is now suffering, it is the logical next step to see neo-nazis attempt to gain political power and leadership positions. They appeal to the anxieties of the population, their suspicions of changes and strangers, and any latent witch-hunting thinking might be floating around looking for a scapegoat. Such parties come out of the woodwork like roaches when things get really bad in a society.

But in Greece in particular, going neo-nazi should be a should-never-happen step, not a next step. The WW2 German and Italian occupation of Greece saw terrible suffering and atrocities, including the starvation of some 300,000 people in the city of Athens alone. It was one of the longest lasting occupations of the war, its end led to civil war and the sub rosa entrenchment of Greek Axis collaborators into the post-war ruling class. A lot of Greeks still have vivid and bitter memories of that time. Wikipedia link.

With a history like that, if the Golden Dawn were to gain ruling power in Greece, I would not buy that the Greeks voted that way purely in response to economic pressures. That kind of a betrayal of one's own grandparents' experience is not something people do by unconsciously or by knee-jerk response.