Jimmy Savile rape accusations [Hall, Harris, Roache, et al]

Priene · Oct 2, 2012

The Metropolitan police is launching a new investigation after a woman told detectives she was raped by Sir Jimmy Savile in London in the 1970s.

The woman reported the allegation to police on Monday as fresh sexual assault claims against Savile were reported in the media ahead of an ITV1 documentary about the subject.

This case has been smouldering for many years. Savile, a presenter of children's and music television on the BBC in the 1970s, was a national figure whose death was marked respectfully by a BBC which was choosing to ignore the long-running allegations that Savile raped numerous children, some of which happened on BBC property. We've now learned that Savile was questioned under caution by the Metropolitan Police over these in 2007, and that the Crown Prosecution Service opted not to pursue the case as it was 'not in the public interest'.

Which is possibly code for 'Savile was too old and the crimes were too long ago', but the investigators who found this out and wanted to know why were working for the BBC's Newsnight programme. Their ten minute investigation into Savile was pulled last year by the BBC, which then indulging itself commemorating Savile's death. As it is, ITV is showing a documentary about Savile's alleged crimes tomorrow.

If this programme has the evidence it seems to have, Savile's reputation is heading where Gary Glitter's went, and the BBC is going to find itself in heaps of trouble, because this is the same kind of scandal that has caused so much damage to the Catholic Church.

Shakesbear · Oct 2, 2012

I had a long conversation about this with a friend. Seems that Sir Jim used his position intimidate people into covering up for him. He raised millions of pounds for charity and if he was threatened with exposure he responded by telling the accuser that they would cause charities to lose lots of money and that they, the accuser would be responsible. What annoys me, really annoys me, are the people who stayed quiet to protect their careers and are now coming forward to accuse a dead man.

I only hope that the children who were allegedly abused can get some form of closure.

"The BBC has conducted extensive searches of its files to establish whether there is any record of misconduct or allegations of misconduct by Sir Jimmy Savile during his time at the BBC. No such evidence has been found.
"Whilst the BBC condemns any behaviour of the type alleged in the strongest terms, in the absence of evidence of any kind found at the BBC that corroborates the allegations that have been made it is simply not possible for the corporation to take any further action."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-19776872

If there were no allegations then I do not see how the BBC can be held accountable. Also, some of the alleged abuse may have taken place in the rv that Sir Jim used. I've not seen any report that says 'rape'. I have now http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-19806312

Priene · Oct 2, 2012

Shakesbear said:
If there were no allegations then I do not see how the BBC can be held accountable. Also, some of the alleged abuse may have taken place in the rv that Sir Jim used. I've not seen any report that says 'rape'. I have now http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-19806312

That's assuming no-one in the BBC then or now knew anything about Savile's goings on, I don't trust the BBC to investigate itself over this. Newsnight journalists were outraged about it:

The intervention by Peter Rippon, Newsnight's editor, prompted a furious row behind the scenes and led journalists connected with the programme to ask questions in private about what BBC bosses above Rippon knew about the film and the decision to pull it.

According to Julie Bindel in the Guardian:

A number of Savile's former colleagues interviewed for the documentary admitted that his predatory behaviour towards young girls was an open secret at the BBC. Wilfred De'Ath, who worked with Savile in the 1960s, told of how he spoke to a girl he believed to be 12 years old while she was in bed with the presenter the morning after he had seen Savile with her at a restaurant, describing her as like a "little lost soul". De'Ath admitted that it was "common gossip" that Savile was an abuser. Still, it appears that neither he nor any other colleagues reported him either to the BBC bosses or police.

When the accusations are that serious, the BBC's denials of knowledge or responsibility can't be the end of the matter. And the quashing of the Newsnight report also needs an external investigation. I'm not saying the BBC has necessarily done anything wrong, but there's certainly the possibility.

waylander · Oct 2, 2012

I had heard of this some years ago from a female friend who had contact with JS. I think his public reputation is likely to be substantially revised.

firedrake · Oct 2, 2012

I'm not in the least bit surprised about this. He sparked off my creep-o-meter years ago. There was just something about him that wasn't quite right.

Priene · Oct 2, 2012

Looks like the BBC hierarchy have cottoned on to the danger they're facing: BBC 'horrified' over rape allegations.

Newsnight's editor has denied being ordered to shut down the Savile report:

Mr Rippon said: "It has been suggested I was ordered to do it by my bosses as part of a BBC cover-up. It has also been suggested that we deliberately withheld information from the police.

Which is a lot better response than their ill-advised earlier response:

The BBC said: "It is absolutely untrue that the Newsnight investigation was dropped for anything other than editorial reasons. We have been very clear from the start that the piece was not broadcast because the story we were pursuing could not be substantiated. To say otherwise is false and very damaging to the BBC and individuals. The notion that internal pressure was applied appears to be a malicious rumour.

"No pressure was applied to drop this investigation. None. To suggest otherwise is to risk impugning the professional reputation and integrity of a number of journalists."

Whether the BBC likes it or not, it is legitimate to question the dropping of the Newsnight report, even if it turns out the Newsnight editor did nothing wrong. The BBC as a whole made a big mistake in its glowing celebration of Savile's life. There have been serious questions about the man for years. Not least because in Louis Theroux's deeply disturbing interview with Savile, he had admitted to assault and false imprisonment of clubgoers at his nightclub in the sixties.

Old Hack · Oct 2, 2012

Firedrake, you're not alone. I felt the same way about him, and so did a friend of mine who worked for the BBC and met him, several times. It's a horrible story, but not a surprising one as far as I'm concerned.

The thought of the man has made me shudder for a long, long time.

Priene · Oct 3, 2012

ITV's documentary has testimony by former BBC producer Sue Thompson, who caught Savile kissing and groping a girl she estimates to be about fourteen. It's not clear from this clip whether this was in a BBC dressing room, but if she was a BBC employee then it probably was.

Priene · Oct 6, 2012

Excerpts from the BBC's: interview with ex-Radio 1 DJ Liz Kershaw:

Ex-Radio 1 DJ Liz Kershaw claims she was groped on air

Ms Kershaw, now a presenter on BBC Radio 6 Music, said one Radio 1 presenter "routinely groped" her during her time at the station.

She added everyone in Radio 1 "joked about Jimmy Savile and young girls".

She told BBC Radio 4's Today programme she remembered the unnamed presenter fondling her breasts while she was on live radio.

"I couldn't say anything, I couldn't even exclaim because I was broadcasting to the nation," she said.

"When I complained to somebody they were incredulous and said 'Don't you like it? Are you a lesbian?"'

Ms Kershaw, who arrived at Radio 1 around the time Sir Jimmy was leaving, said: "The rumours were there, the jokes were there. It was an open secret.

"Round Radio 1 everyone joked about Jimmy Savile and young girls. The main jokes were about his adventures on the Radio 1 Roadshow. It was massive then.

BBC management's claim to know nothing about nothing is beginning to look dubious.

crunchyblanket · Oct 7, 2012

Priene said:
ITV's documentary has testimony by former BBC producer Sue Thompson, who caught Savile kissing and groping a girl she estimates to be about fourteen. It's not clear from this clip whether this was in a BBC dressing room, but if she was a BBC employee then it probably was.

I can't access the link from where I am, and so my question may well be answered there, but - why did she not go to the police?

If I hear one more person trot out the old "why are they only bringing it up now he's dead and can't defend himself?" bollocks I will probably spontaneously combust in frustration.

I also note that the Daily Mail are rubbing their hands with glee at this opportunity to smear the BBC, who they have long despised as a supposedly 'left-wing' conspiracy (if the BBC are left-wing, then I must be off the map entirely) Witness yesterday's headline relating to a supposed 'sex ring' within the BBC.

Six Alaric · Oct 7, 2012

crunchyblanket said:
I can't access the link from where I am, and so my question may well be answered there, but - why did she not go to the police?

This is what I've been wondering.

I completely understand why victims of abuse would have avoided reporting anything (although some apparently did - with no result) but the amount of witnesses coming forward now make it seem like this has been an open secret for decades.

Celia Cyanide · Oct 7, 2012

crunchyblanket said:
I can't access the link from where I am, and so my question may well be answered there, but - why did she not go to the police?

Recently, in my city, a local casting director, a pillar of the acting community, was arrested for raping a 14 year old boy. I was shocked, because he always seemed like a good person. But I keep hearing from so many other people that they "always knew" and that they saw suspicious things the whole time. Every time I hear this, I want to ask, "And how many people did you report it to?" And "How many people did you warn not to let their kids audition for him?"

I can't help but wonder if they are overcompensating because they feel stupid that he fooled them. I hope so.

Priene · Oct 7, 2012

crunchyblanket said:
I can't access the link from where I am, and so my question may well be answered there, but - why did she not go to the police?

Her answer was that she wouldn't be believed. This was in 1978. Savile was a huge star at that point, one of the first celebrities to become renowned for their charity works. Savile had raised millions for Stoke Mandeville, had 15 million viewers for Jim'll Fix It, and had been carrying on in that fashion for years with BBC management -- I'm being kind here -- taking a blind eye to his activities. She was a 23 year old under-producer at BBC Leeds.

In her defence, I don't think going to the police in 1978 over this would have done much good. Attitudes to rape were brutal back then. There was a reality programme about (I think) Thames Valley Police somewhere
around that time where they showed how police go about their work. The episode where they followed a rape victim shocked pretty much everyone who watched it -- the police seemed far more interested in giving the victim a hard time than going after the rapist -- and started the long process of changing attitudes to rape.

The BBC producer witnessed a sexual assault (assuming the victim was under 16), but I doubt the 1978 police would have had much interest in a case where a 14-year old had consensually (as it was understood to be then, though not now) gone into his dressing room. If the producer could have persuaded them to interview Savile, he would either have denied the encounter or claimed she's said she was sixteen. They would probably have told him to be more careful and left it at that. I can't imagine that in 1978 a major celebrity like Savile would have been taken to court for kissing and groping a 14-year old. If it had gone to court, Savile and the BBC would have a highly paid lawyer there to rubbish the girl and the producer, both of whom would have suffered. I highly doubt that case could have been won, and I don't think the police would have tried.

but the amount of witnesses coming forward now make it seem like this has been an open secret for decades.

There's so much evidence now that there's no room for reasonable doubt. Savile was a paedophile who preyed on and raped young girls. The BBC hierarchy let him get away with it, as did, shockingly, the authorities running at least two childrens' homes. Unbelievably, Savile's charity campaigning gave him easy access to his victims.

crunchyblanket said:
I also note that the Daily Mail are rubbing their hands with glee at this opportunity to smear the BBC, who they have long despised as a supposedly 'left-wing' conspiracy (if the BBC are left-wing, then I must be off the map entirely) Witness yesterday's headline relating to a supposed 'sex ring' within the BBC.

The Mail have big problems coming their way, and they need a diversion. Dacre made a horrible error when he ordered his journalists to savage Hugh Grant about his evidence at the Leveson Inquiry. Advanced notices
about the Leveson Report have been sent out to those who will be criticised, and apparent Dacre gets mauled.

But when you put aside the fact that the Mail is a disgusting cryptofascist rag, they unfortunately have a point. The BBC employed a child rapist for forty-odd years, despite a huge amount of evidence about his activities, and he used BBC property to commit his crimes. The fact that Savile is now dead doesn't excuse them. Their pretence that this is all one big surprise is absurd, and if I was them I'm start taking this seriously.

eyeblink · Oct 7, 2012

Priene said:
Attitudes to rape were brutal back then. There was a reality programme about (I think) Thames Valley Police somewhere
around that time where they showed how police go about their work. The episode where they followed a rape victim shocked pretty much everyone who watched it -- the police seemed far more interested in giving the victim a hard time than going after the rapist -- and started the long process of changing attitudes to rape.

That was the award-winning BBC documentary series Police, which did indeed cover Thames Valley Police. It was a little later, though - 1982.

I didn't see it at the time, but I do remember the furore.

firedrake · Oct 7, 2012

eyeblink said:
That was the award-winning BBC documentary series Police, which did indeed cover Thames Valley Police. It was a little later, though - 1982.

I didn't see it at the time, but I do remember the furore.

I do remember seeing that.

Savile was a 'national icon'. It would've been like kids stepping forward and saying Mister Rogers, or Captain Kangaroo had molested them.

waylander · Oct 7, 2012

If the girl had not directly complained to the police then they would not at the time have taken any action on just the producer's statement.

Priene · Oct 8, 2012

George Entwistle, the BBC's Director General, promises an internal inquiry (I have to say I thought they'd already had one) and says he'd never heard rumours about Savile.

Entwistle, who rose through the ranks of the BBC as a journalist, said he had never heard the rumours of sex abuse but conceded: "Jimmy Savile was regarded as by a great many people as odd, a bit peculiar and that was something I was aware some people believed."

So he was working at the BBC during 2000, which was when When Louis Met Jimmy was broadcast -- when this major BBC personality destroyed his own career by being weird and sinister and was briefly the talk of the country -- but he never heard any rumours about Savile, even though Savile himself talked about the rumours during the documentary, including using the word 'paedophile'.

That's just ridiculous.

writeontime · Oct 8, 2012

Priene said:
That's assuming no-one in the BBC then or now knew anything about Savile's goings on, I don't trust the BBC to investigate itself over this. Newsnight journalists were outraged about it:

According to Julie Bindel in the Guardian:

When the accusations are that serious, the BBC's denials of knowledge or responsibility can't be the end of the matter. And the quashing of the Newsnight report also needs an external investigation. I'm not saying the BBC has necessarily done anything wrong, but there's certainly the possibility.

I agree - there needs to be an external investigation. The accusations are serious and deeply concerning, especially when, with each passing day, more information comes to light. According to Sandi Toksvig in the Guardian:

Sandi Toksvig has said she was groped "on air, by a famous individual" 30 years ago. The radio and television presenter, who declined to name the celebrity, said when she told other staff what had happened they thought it funny.

The disclosure came as Toksvig reviewed the newspapers for the BBC's Andrew Marr Show on Sunday.

Questions have been raised about the culture at the corporation in the 1980s after the allegations emerged about the behaviour of Sir Jimmy Savile.

Liz Kershaw, a former Radio 1 DJ, described last week how she was regularly groped by a colleague.

Toksvig, who starred in children's shows including ITV's Number 73 during the 1980s, and is now a regular on Radio 4, said the other claims about abusive behaviour came as no surprise.

She said: "In the 80s, which is when I started in radio and television, things were very different. Not to name any names, but I was once very unpleasantly groped while I was broadcasting by a famous individual who shall remain nameless. When I told the staff afterwards what had happened, everybody thought it was amusing. There was a sort of 'shrugged shoulder' approach to the whole thing."
She said the allegations of inappropriate behaviour "did not surprise me at all and I had heard those stories when I was working at the BBC".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/oct/07/sandi-toksvig-i-was-groped-on-air

Priene · Oct 8, 2012

writeontime said:
I agree - there needs to be an external investigation. The accusations are serious and deeply concerning, especially when, with each passing day, more information comes to light. According to Sandi Toksvig in the Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/oct/07/sandi-toksvig-i-was-groped-on-air

It's had me thinking about how Matthew Bannister acted when he took over Radio 1 in the early nineties: he sacked pretty much all the old DJs despite taking an enormous hit in audience levels. At the time the reason was that he wanted a younger profile, but having been a newsreader at Radio 1 in the early eighties, maybe Bannister had long ago seen what was going on and decided the culture had to change.

writeontime · Oct 8, 2012

Priene said:
It's had me thinking about how Matthew Bannister acted when he took over Radio 1 in the early nineties: he sacked pretty much all the old DJs despite taking an enormous hit in audience levels. At the time the reason was that he wanted a younger profile, but having been a newsreader at Radio 1 in the early eighties, maybe Bannister had long ago seen what was going on and decided the culture had to change.

Yes, I do wonder to what extent people like Bannister were aware of what was going on and decided to take matters into their own hands.

Meanwhile, I've just belatedly read this:

Earlier this year The Oldie magazine carried two reports that appeared to claim BBC knowledge of Savile's alleged sexual abuse of girls on the broadcaster's premises.

It alleged that in the 1960s Savile took young girls to a hotel near Baker Street called the Mascot and quoted one anonymous former producer as saying: "Savile told me once that he was too invaluable for them to dismiss for his sexual peccadilloes which, to be fair to him, he never attempted to disguise."

Kershaw made allegations against another unnamed BBC DJ on Radio 4's Today programme yesterday and likened the atmosphere at Radio 1 during the late 1980s to a rugby club locker room.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/oct/07/jimmy-savile-bbc-colleagues-police

Torgo · Oct 8, 2012

Priene said:
So he was working at the BBC during 2000, which was when When Louis Met Jimmy was broadcast -- when this major BBC personality destroyed his own career by being weird and sinister and was briefly the talk of the country -- but he never heard any rumours about Savile, even though Savile himself talked about the rumours during the documentary, including using the word 'paedophile'.

That's just ridiculous.

Yep, though Louis himself clearly didn't think Savile was a paedophile. He discussed the rumours with him, but was impressed enough by Savile's bullshit to discount them. The weirdness and sinisterness brought out - the 'darkness' Theroux refers to in the largely friendly blog he wrote when Savile died - isn't connected to child abuse, it's about being a hardnut.

veinglory · Oct 8, 2012

However he can;t really say he'd never heard of them, based on that.

Torgo · Oct 8, 2012

veinglory said:
However he can;t really say he'd never heard of them, based on that.

An amazing number of people seem to have heard of them, but not actually done anything about them. They were intimidated; or persuaded it wouldn't do good; for some it'll be outright conspiracy; for some, like Louis Theroux, it'll be because they bought Savile's extremely clever line of bullshit. (And Theroux isn't a dumb guy, by any means.)

The line in the paper the other day was 'he groomed the whole nation' (Deborah Orr?) I think that's quite accurate. Remarkable, really; horrible, but remarkable.

writeontime · Oct 8, 2012

Torgo said:
An amazing number of people seem to have heard of them, but not actually done anything about them. They were intimidated; or persuaded it wouldn't do good; for some it'll be outright conspiracy; for some, like Louis Theroux, it'll be because they bought Savile's extremely clever line of bullshit. (And Theroux isn't a dumb guy, by any means.)

The line in the paper the other day was 'he groomed the whole nation' (Deborah Orr?) I think that's quite accurate. Remarkable, really; horrible, but remarkable.

Yes, it was the Deborah Orr article which stated that he had 'groomed an entire nation'. Interesting article, by the way.

I really need to revisit the Theroux documentary and his blog most. All I remember of that documentary was being left with an overwhelming feeling of being unsettled.

Priene · Oct 8, 2012

writeontime said:
I really need to revisit the Theroux documentary and his blog most. All I remember of that documentary was being left with an overwhelming feeling of being unsettled.

Also, for anyone who didn't see the ITV documentary, it can still be seen on ITV on Demand. Obviously, it's pretty unsettling stuff.

Jimmy Savile rape accusations [Hall, Harris, Roache, et al]

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