Does anyone else feel rather insulted by these ebook "samples"?

LOG · Sep 28, 2012

At least the ones on B&N?
If I'm lucky, I'll get ~30 pages, which would be great, if they had text from the actual story, but no.
These "samples" include the bloody front matter, so by the time I get through all of that, most samples only give me a few pages. It's a rare sample that actually gives me a thorough impression of the book. I'm lucky if I get a full chapter.
I'm still trying to decide whether the publishers keep it short intentionally . . .

Best samples I've ever seen are from Sword of Shadows series, thing gives me a few hundred pages in its samples (which is easy for them since they all break a thousand).

Kerosene · Sep 28, 2012

It usually takes me a page to tell if I want to keep reading or not, so...

I think 30 pages is pretty long.

I just like to be given the first chapter. (or prologue+first chapter)

Then again, I don't know how they decided the sample sizes. Anyone wish to shine light on this?

I mostly use amazon, so if you pick the "kindle" version, it cuts straight to the first part (prologue included). Otherwise, you might need to fight your way through the cover (or bad scanner pics).
The B&N one does go from cover to, whatever they feel is a sample size.
I don't know others though, results vary I guess.

I've downloaded several samples on my kindle, that ended up to be 5 pages short and then just cut short. WTF?

Timmy V. · Sep 28, 2012

LOG said:
At least the ones on B&N?
If I'm lucky, I'll get ~30 pages, which would be great, if they had text from the actual story, but no.
These "samples" include the bloody front matter, so by the time I get through all of that, most samples only give me a few pages. It's a rare sample that actually gives me a thorough impression of the book. I'm lucky if I get a full chapter.
I'm still trying to decide whether the publishers keep it short intentionally . . .

Best samples I've ever seen are from Sword of Shadows series, thing gives me a few hundred pages in its samples (which is easy for them since they all break a thousand).

i agree with your assessment. I have found the vast majority of samples to contain the acknowledgements, introductions/prologues and one to two pages of content. For me that is not sufficient either. Especially given that Kindle books are running $9.99 to $12.99 for the commercially successful books.

While I presume it is not intentional, the "sample" concept as presented on Kindle (in Kindle's case, don't know about B and N) does seem deceiving. One page of a 300 page book is not a sample. So while we might want to value it as something, I'm not sure what you would name what it is Kindle presents to you as a sample, but I think Kindle should call it something else. maybe a "very brief excerpt"

BenPanced · Sep 28, 2012

I was surprised recently by a sample for the nook because it contained the first three and a half chapters of actual content. (I wound up not buying the book, but still.)

Susan Coffin · Sep 28, 2012

When I've followed online links to authors' books on Amazon, I've seen anywhere from the first few pages to one or two chapters. It doesn't matter to me one way or the other because I don't buy books on Amazon, I go into bookstores and leaf through the books there.

Niniva · Sep 28, 2012

Smashwords automatically popped up 30 percent.

thothguard51 · Sep 28, 2012

In the majority of cases on Kindle, I have not had a problem with sample size as much as the sample itself.

LOG · Sep 28, 2012

Niniva said:
Smashwords automatically popped up 30 percent.

Eh?
30 percent of what?

Kewii · Sep 28, 2012

I get most of my books from the Apple Bookstore (iBooks?) and have usually been pretty happy with the amount I get. There is a lot of front matter, but by the end I usually get at least 15 pages, if not 20 or 25 pages to read to decide if I want to buy it.

My first thought is it might be something legal that determines how much they can provide. I know when I was doing my honours the rule was also you can only photocopy 10% of a book before paying for it (or at least that was what we were always told). Maybe it's something like that?

leahzero · Sep 29, 2012

Yeah, this drives me nuts, too. Sometimes there's an excerpt on the publisher or author's site, but man, if I have to track down that sample, you're not getting an impulse buy, pal. And I don't hunt for a sample unless I'm really interested in the first place. Sale lost.

It's because most publishers still don't know WTF they're doing with ebooks yet. They just upload without testing to see what the consumer experience is like.

I'm sure eventually this will get ironed out--either the publishers will set more generous previews, or Amazon will be forced to do it for them, which is more likely.

shadowwalker · Sep 29, 2012

thothguard51 said:
In the majority of cases on Kindle, I have not had a problem with sample size as much as the sample itself.

This is my problem with buying books online. I want to leaf through the thing, stop here and there and read, and decide that way if it will hold my interest. I don't want someone else picking what my sample is going to be, no matter how long it is.

veinglory · Sep 29, 2012

LOG said:
Eh?
30 percent of what?

30% of the pages

LJD · Sep 29, 2012

hmmm...I rarely read samples.
But if I did, I'd hate if a sample had less than 10 *real* pages.

Six Alaric · Sep 29, 2012

LOG said:
These "samples" include the bloody front matter, so by the time I get through all of that, most samples only give me a few pages.

I run into the same thing on Amazon a lot.

Then there are the previews that finally get into the first chapter only to have a sudden gap and a message like 'Sign in to read pages 14-18' before the rest of the sample.

LBlankenship · Sep 29, 2012

...strange, you know, when you think about it. In an ebook, why does "front matter" need to be at the front?

You could put it at the back, with a link on the TOC for those who want to see it.

LOG · Sep 29, 2012

LBlankenship said:
...strange, you know, when you think about it. In an ebook, why does "front matter" need to be at the front?

For the same reason front matter is in the front of print books I would imagine.

dangerousbill · Sep 29, 2012

LOG said:
At least the ones on B&N?
If I'm lucky, I'll get ~30 pages, which would be great, if they had text from the actual story, but no.
These "samples" include the bloody front matter,

When they want me to pony up $10 to $15 for a bloody ebook that costs them nothing to print, store, and ship, I sure as hell want at least a full chapter first. So mostly, I don't buy.

shaldna · Sep 29, 2012

WillSauger said:
It usually takes me a page to tell if I want to keep reading or not, so...

I think 30 pages is pretty long.

I just like to be given the first chapter. (or prologue+first chapter)

Then again, I don't know how they decided the sample sizes. Anyone wish to shine light on this?

Back when I last uploaded something (last year) there wasn't an option to pick which pages, only which percentage of the novel you wanted to offer as a sample.

IIRC you can offer up to 30% of your novel as a sample.

Old Hack · Sep 29, 2012

dangerousbill said:
When they want me to pony up $10 to $15 for a bloody ebook that costs them nothing to print, store, and ship, I sure as hell want at least a full chapter first. So mostly, I don't buy.

E-books need editing, designing and formatting, they require frequent updates and tweaks, they have to be offered for sale on a website, which requires software, people and a payment facility, and there's a real cost to servers and their maintenance. There are other costs too. They aren't free to make or maintain, or to offer for sale.

mscelina · Sep 29, 2012

Old Hack said:
E-books need editing, designing and formatting, they require frequent updates and tweaks, they have to be offered for sale on a website, which requires software, people and a payment facility, and there's a real cost to servers and their maintenance. There are other costs too. They aren't free to make or maintain, or to offer for sale.

QFT. There's no such thing as a free e-book. You don't just slap a word document into a file format and paste a cover on it. There's a lot more to it than that. When you consider how many different file formats there really are, and pay for the manhours to create a single ebook in all those formats, the man hours start adding up. Then again, too, you probably aren't aware that publishers are charged a 'delivery fee' by the retailers--money that comes out of our profits to cover the costs of the customer's purchase of that ebook.

Also, publishers are restricted by the amount of content they can use for promotional purposes--which is what book excerpts are--contractually. As a writer, I don't want my publisher offering one third of my book for free. As a publisher, I don't want to offer significant action at the end of the book for free. That's like peeking at the presents under the tree and wrapping them back up before your mom gets back from the grocery store.

Cath · Sep 29, 2012

It's pretty difficult to programmatically pick out the where the story starts in an electronic file. Unless the samples are hand coded, or built consistently from publisher to publisher so that a programmer has some kind of key to say 'here's where the story starts', it's difficult to exclude front matter and only serve up the story in the sample.

Jamesaritchie · Sep 29, 2012

Guess we're all difefrent. I've never read trhough more than two or three pages before deciding on a book, even at a bookstore. More often than not, the first page does the story.

If I read thrugh even ten pages of every book I buy I'd be spending way, way, way too much time in bookstores.

J. Tanner · Sep 29, 2012

Cath said:
It's pretty difficult to programmatically pick out the where the story starts in an electronic file. Unless the samples are hand coded, or built consistently from publisher to publisher so that a programmer has some kind of key to say 'here's where the story starts', it's difficult to exclude front matter and only serve up the story in the sample.

For Kindle books (not sure for epubs but I'd guess it's similar) the programmer has a key to say 'here's where the story starts':

Code:

<reference title="Start" type="text" href="[XXXX]" />

It's used fairly universally as far as I can tell. I don't recall reading a book on my Kindle that didn't go right to Chapter 1 or the equivalent. Look Inside on amazon.com is a different story--I've come across a number of books where I had to send the sample to my Kindle to get anything meaningful.

Jamesaritchie · Sep 30, 2012

dangerousbill said:
When they want me to pony up $10 to $15 for a bloody ebook that costs them nothing to print, store, and ship, I sure as hell want at least a full chapter first. So mostly, I don't buy.

E-books are a long way from being cost free.

KTC · Sep 30, 2012

I think the samples are pretty substantial, actually.

Does anyone else feel rather insulted by these ebook "samples"?

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