PDA

View Full Version : Elementary



Little Ming
09-29-2012, 12:22 AM
Why not give this show its own thread? ;)

Basically, the US's version of a modern day Sherlock Holmes. Most notable comparison will be to BBC's Sherlock.

Spoilers ahead:

I saw it last night. It was not terrible, but I was also not impressed. I like the changes they made to Watson, most noticeable is she's a woman, and technically no longer a doctor. It's also interesting that they made Sherlock nicer than I'm used to seeing. What I don't like is that I think they will try to play up the romantic aspect of the relationship, but from the first episode it felt like Lucy Liu and Jonny Miller have no chemistry. Seriously, even Benedict and Martin had more sexual tension between them in the first episode.

The writing is, again, not terrible, but nowhere near as sharp and witty as the BBC.

The mystery was... blah. I just didn't feel invested in figuring it out. And there's always the false positive when you know they got the wrong guy before getting the real murderer. It's a bit too formulaic and predictable.

So I guess the best thing I can say about the show is "not terrible," which isn't much. I'll probably hang around for one or two more episodes before deciding to drop this one.

defcon6000
09-29-2012, 12:28 AM
This first episode was more about establishing the characters than the mystery. I'm hoping it picks up, but I don't want a romance.

DeleyanLee
09-29-2012, 01:24 AM
A romance, or even sexual tension, between Holmes and Watson was my biggest concern with that show, honestly. I honestly don't see any other reason to gender-bender either character for a modern audience. So not what I want from a Holmes story.

Grrarrgh
09-29-2012, 01:35 AM
I read in an article that the writers have no intention to do a romance between Holmes and Watson. I'll see if I can find it to link it.

I watched most of it, but I think I fell asleep before the end. I didn't hate it; I'll probably keep watching, I agree with Little Ming that it was a little formulaic and predictable.

xKatya
09-29-2012, 01:39 AM
I know plenty of people who are spite-watching this show in part because of the BBC Sherlock fandom response to it, which has been... regrettably racist and misogynist and on some occasions rather horrifying.

I think it's worth pointing out that the creators of the show have specifically said they're not looking to have a romance between Holmes and Watson (here (http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/s205/elementary/news/a408607/elementary-exec-on-romance-its-not-what-the-show-was-built-to-do.html)), which I find reassuring, personally. It is very easy to see they've only genderswapped one of the characters and wonder if they're looking to have an obvious romance and escape the homoerotic subtext, so I understand that instinct, but I also hate the idea that there needs to be a reason to make Watson a woman aside from just "hey, wouldn't that be cool? And maybe she doesn't have to be white, either!"

One thing that struck me about the pilot last night was that it felt like a more realistic portrayal of New York than a lot of shows set there - I loved the scene on the subway, for example, and the fact there's a very diverse cast.

Maryn
09-29-2012, 01:41 AM
I third that--fourth?--about the predicable formula. I do try to give new shows that don't suck out of the gate three episodes to win me over. Not many do.

Maryn, all snooty about TV*

*Because a Law & Order rerun she's seen twice already is better than a lot of new stuff

Manuel Royal
09-29-2012, 02:03 AM
I know plenty of people who are spite-watching this show in part because of the BBC Sherlock fandom response to it, which has been... regrettably racist and misogynist and on some occasions rather horrifying.It always baffles me when there's a show (or other entertainment) that seems designed to appeal to smart, thoughtful people, but its fanbase turns out to have some real halfwits, bigots and shitheels in it. I remember when there were Babylon 5 fans who were upset about the possibility of a same-sex relationship on the show. (Though they had no trouble wrapping their heads around all the different alien races, FTL, etc.)

DeleyanLee
09-29-2012, 02:14 AM
I'll be honest. One of the reasons I read/watch anything Holmes is for a brilliant mystery that requires all that makes Sherlock Holmes Sherlock Holmes to solve. I want that sense of being gobsmacked by his intellect and recall.

The BBC series gives me the best experience of that sensation. I had great doubts about this new series (I have it DVR'd, haven't watched it yet--not sure I want to now) in this regard. Hearing that it's already formulaic is really disheartening.



*Because a Law & Order rerun she's seen twice already is better than a lot of new stuff

QFT -- especially any episode with Lenny. :D

AlexPiper
09-29-2012, 02:18 AM
from the first episode it felt like Lucy Liu and Jonny Miller have no chemistry. Seriously, even Benedict and Martin had more sexual tension between them in the first episode.

The writing is, again, not terrible, but nowhere near as sharp and witty as the BBC.
This basically sums up my reaction.

I have no problem with Watson being a woman, though I actually think it might've been more interesting if they *had* kept the ex-soldier aspect of it instead of making her a cashiered surgeon. (Though if she was ex-military, there's no way Sherlock would've been able to pull the alarm-clock stunt.) I have a lot of problems with the fact that the two of them have all the chemistry of wet cardboard.

One thing that works really well about the BBC's Sherlock is that you genuinely *believe* Watson's been caught up and drawn into everything. There's this sense that Watson's just marking time due to how broken the war's left him, and as broken as the relationship between Holmes and Watson is, you can see from that first moment precisely how they'll fit together. They're each broken, but the pieces fit together somehow to let them function better together than either does alone.

I didn't get that sense with Elementary. I don't actually feel that Sherlock needs a companion, nor did I feel that Watson actually is that broken. I know she's supposedly drawn to this because she wants to make a difference again, and they *kind* of touched on that when she suddenly blurts out a question herself — one of the few moments that stands out — but I didn't find it as compelling or believable.

Which is regrettable. :(

HeavilyMedicated
09-29-2012, 03:48 AM
I know plenty of people who are spite-watching this show in part because of the BBC Sherlock fandom response to it, which has been... regrettably racist and misogynist and on some occasions rather horrifying.

That's one of my reasons. Also, I like the two leads.

I like Sherlock, but I don't think it's the best thing since sliced bread like everyone seems to.

K. Taylor
09-29-2012, 07:36 AM
Loved the first ep last night. Excellent debut.

heyjude
09-29-2012, 03:13 PM
Watched it last night. Like some of you, I thought it was a bit predictable and blah. I'll try another one to see if it grows on me.

CrystalCierlak
09-29-2012, 09:00 PM
I found it entertaining. I'll watch a few more episodes before I decide what I really think of it. It didn't blow me away like the BBC version did on the first episode, but I understand that they are two different shows. It's the only new show of the season that I am watching.

Lavern08
09-30-2012, 02:07 AM
... I think it's worth pointing out that the creators of the show have specifically said they're not looking to have a romance between Holmes and Watson ...

I hope not, but we'll see how it goes. :Shrug:

CrastersBabies
09-30-2012, 03:09 AM
This first episode was more about establishing the characters than the mystery. I'm hoping it picks up, but I don't want a romance.

Did not see first episode, but might check it out on Hulu. I'm almost not interested in a romance. Scully/Fox worked so much better w/o the romance aspect.

DreamWeaver
03-16-2013, 05:47 AM
I generally enjoy Elementary, but last night was the first time they truly surprised me with the ending and it felt like a real Sherlock Holmes story.

Misdirection...I saw the last clue and assumed they were going for something out of an old movie. Which, after I saw the actual solution, was exactly what they had wanted me to think :D.

I like that.

Amanda R.
03-17-2013, 09:38 AM
I love Elementary. I think it's a great twist on an old favorite and Johnny Lee Miller is brilliant.

When the show started the execs promised that there would be nothing romantic/sexual between Holmes and Watson, thus keeping the relationship more akin to the original. They claimed that making Watson a woman was just to create a new/modern element to the show, but would not become romantic and ruin the friendship of the established canon.

However, we have all seen other shows (Desperate Housewives, Smash) where the original creators were basically voted out and the show take a new direction. I just hope that doesn't happen here because I think it is great.

K. Taylor
03-28-2013, 03:52 AM
CBS announced renewal today.

Bookdragonette
03-28-2013, 09:21 PM
CBS announced renewal today.

That's good news. I like this show. I do feel it's more about Watson than Sherlock, though. Or maybe I just feel that way because I watch more for Lucy Liu than Jonny Lee Miller.

Jamesaritchie
03-29-2013, 12:01 AM
I don't like Elementary as much as the English version of Holmes, but why compare them? I watch Elementary, and enjoy it. There's nothing wrong with watching both, with enjoying both.

K. Taylor
03-29-2013, 05:38 AM
I think it's balanced, but on the other hand, the books are written from Watson's POV, so viewing through her lens on the show is correct.

JessH
03-29-2013, 06:05 AM
I've like this show from the start, and think it's one of the better crime dramas out there. I also think/hope Golden Boy gets picked up, too. Love Chi McBride.

Manuel Royal
03-29-2013, 06:51 AM
I have to admit I've enjoyed the episodes I've seen. Nice to see Lucy Liu in a different kind of role than I have before. Miller is good, too.

Really, I just wish they gave the characters different names.

Max Vaehling
03-29-2013, 05:07 PM
Yeah, every time they introduce themselves as Sherlock Holmes and Watson, I expect somebody to comment on those names until I realize, right, in that world those aren't two of the most famous fictional characters. Always throws me off the plot.

Strangely, I never got that from Sherlock.

Amanda R.
03-29-2013, 05:44 PM
CBS announced renewal today.
:partyguy::snoopy::hooray:
This makes me very happy.

DreamWeaver
04-05-2013, 05:36 PM
I love their version of Mrs Hudson! :heart:

Myrealana
04-05-2013, 06:13 PM
I love this show - like I love just about all of the "socially awkward but brilliant detective and the partner who tries to make him relate to the rest of humanity" shows. (Lie to Me, The Mentalist, Sherlock, Bones, House, etc.)

It's not BBC's Sherlock. In fact, it's barely Holmesian at all, but I still love it.

mdgreene50
04-05-2013, 06:45 PM
I've never actually seen the BBC series, which is probably a good thing, because I don't have anything to compare Elementary to. I have liked this show and did pick up on a little chemistry between Sherlock and Watson, which I like. So far though I'm not understanding Watson's character, and I find myself continually asking, "Why is this chick just following this guy around, watching him solve all these crimes?" She really seems to add nothing to the show, except they like to show her dressing or undressing quite a bit. Seriously?

DreamWeaver
04-05-2013, 06:51 PM
Short summary on Watson: She started out as his paid sober companion (hired by his father), but got sucked in by detecting and is now sort of his apprentice consulting detective.

Because.
04-07-2013, 08:40 AM
*glances at avi* i love this show. hee.

i did watch bbc sherlock and was a huge fan of that as well (and will watch when it finally comes back again), but i actually think this is better. even in its characterization of sherlock. they made him a bit more human in a way. i also love how dr. watson in this adaption (especially right now in the show and compared to the bbc adaption) actually does things.

she's actively discovering details at a crime scene (even if sherlock is nudging her) or attempting to solve her own case (in that episode from a few weeks back). she's also not afraid to call sherlock out which is really nice to see. sherlock relies her and i think that's really evident in this show.

EMaree
12-07-2013, 02:46 AM
Anyone still keeping up with this? I'm a big fan, it's a nice little buddy cop type of show and it's a very different beast to BBC's Sherlock (which I also love).

The latest episode was a pretty nice implementation of a framing device in a TV script. Though after marathoning Sleepy Hollow (which also features an equal male and female lead team, interesting cops, a lot of precinct shots, and arguments over whether the cops should trust the weird consultants) the first few minutes threw me for a loop...

Steve Coate
12-07-2013, 08:00 AM
Liked the latest episode. I found the way the story was told interesting. Also that Holmes actually apologized for something and then got shunned anyway.

EMaree
12-07-2013, 07:13 PM
Steve -- agreed, I was glad they didn't take the easy way out there and have it all be okay. This season has a lot of interesting things going on with Holmes' character development, if they work it all in to the season finale I'll be very pleased.

EMaree
05-20-2014, 09:11 PM
So, has anyone been following the latest season? It was... different. I quite enjoyed it but there were a few plot decisions I wasn't sold on.

DreamWeaver
05-20-2014, 10:21 PM
I'm not a big fan of crime shows making the continuing characters the focus of the crime. So putting Watson in danger doesn't work for me. I also got rather tired of Mycroft. On the other hand, I'd like to see more of Mrs. Hudson--just the odd drive-by appearance where she rearranges Holmes's books, etc.

Overall, I like the show, and now that Person of Interest has gone so far off track, Elementary is my go-to TV series (well, after Game of Thrones :D).

ElaineA
05-20-2014, 10:33 PM
This is one of the go-to shows in our house. Love the acting. Miller can say more with his facial twitches than a lot of actors can with words. I hope they'll re-expand Jon Michael Hill's screen time. I miss the chemistry of the main four characters when they're working closely together.

EMaree
05-20-2014, 11:25 PM
I hope they'll re-expand Jon Michael Hill's screen time. I miss the chemistry of the main four characters when they're working closely together.

Good point. I think that's what was missing in this season for me -- I don't care much for MyCroft's character (though I do *like* him, he's just not a favourite) but I really like Captain Gregson and Detective Bell.

Brandon M Johnson
05-21-2014, 06:12 PM
I still liked the characters and most of the cases as much as I did in season 1, but without the Moriarty arc, this season didn't feel as tight to me. I liked the Mycroft\Sherlock relationship (the Watson\Mycroft romantic relationship... not so much) but I feel like Mycroft should have appeared more to make the season a little more cohesive.

I also agree that having one of the main characters be kidnapped always falls a bit flat for me. Watson is not going to die, especially when the cast is as small is this. Now if, say, Bell were kidnapped for some reason, I might have been a little more concerned.

Speaking of small casts, Captain Gregson didn't have much to do in the last few episodes, did he? He's not my favorite character, but if ever an actor looked like a police captain, it was the guy playing him.

More so than Mrs. Hudson, I'm hoping we see Sherlock's Dad in season 3 and focus on that relationship. And of course, Moriarty needs to show up as well. Really looking forward to it, though. Love Johnny Lee Miller's performance and his chemistry with Lucy Liu.

Lavern08
05-21-2014, 07:01 PM
... I liked the Mycroft\Sherlock relationship (the Watson\Mycroft romantic relationship... not so much)

... I'm hoping we see Sherlock's Dad in season 3 and focus on that relationship.

... Love Johnny Lee Miller's performance and his chemistry with Lucy Liu.

^ That, that, and that. ;)

I watched the first couple of episodes when the show premiered, but quickly lost interest (I am/was a huge Person of Interest fan)

However, I started watching again a few weeks ago (since POI was taking such a bad turn) and I picked up when Mycroft came on the scene.

I absolutely enjoyed it - learned to understand Sherlock's mumblings, and kept asking myself "What in the world does Watson see in Mycroft?"

I'll put it back on my radar when it returns in the Fall.

(Especially since I don't know where POI is headed) :Shrug:

Brandon M Johnson
05-21-2014, 10:45 PM
^ That, that, and that. ;)

I watched the first couple of episodes when the show premiered, but quickly lost interest (I am/was a huge Person of Interest fan)

However, I started watching again a few weeks ago (since POI was taking such a bad turn) and I picked up when Mycroft came on the scene.

I absolutely enjoyed it - learned to understand Sherlock's mumblings, and kept asking myself "What in the world does Watson see in Mycroft?"

I'll put it back on my radar when it returns in the Fall.

(Especially since I don't know where POI is headed) :Shrug:

:) Yeah, he can be a bit hard to hear sometimes.

If you haven't already and you have access to them, I'd recommend checking out the Moriarty arc from season 1. (Mostly, the last 2-3 episodes and a mid first-season episode called "M".) Even if you've already come across the spoiler as to who Moriarty is, it's still my favorite version of the character ever, and as the show isn't heavily serialized in that regard, you could enjoy it without having seen the rest of the first season.

suha52
06-14-2014, 03:45 PM
I didn't want to watch this because I adore the BBC Sherlock. However, after denying myself for weeks and weeks I decided to download the first 8 episodes and get to work watching them before I made a full opinion.

Brandon M Johnson
01-10-2015, 07:45 PM
So, has anyone checked out Elementary's third season? It's definitely been interesting, with a new supporting character in the mix who's actually been employed pretty well and hasn't taken over the show. The premiere is a bit of a reset, but the leads remain fantastic and there's been some good cases.

I still don't understand why every case has to involve murder, sometimes you can guess whodunit by picking out the most recognizable guest star which causes some of the endings to fall a little flat, and this is just me, but I'd like to see Sherlock's father and more of season-long arc.

But... Johnny Lee Miller has had some great moments. If anyone's been casually following this, I'd strongly recommend watching "Bella" and "The Eternity Injection". The former deals with Sherlock vs. an AI, and the latter has an incredible monologue on sobriety that Miller nails.

P.S.
I also loved the murder method in the premiere.

Lavern08
01-12-2015, 01:51 AM
So, has anyone checked out Elementary's third season? It's definitely been interesting, with a new supporting character in the mix who's actually been employed pretty well and hasn't taken over the show...

The jury is still out on Kitty as far as I'm concerned. :Shrug:

Still trying to get used to Sherlock's mumblings.

ElaineA
01-31-2015, 08:58 PM
Whoa. Thursday's episode episode was very emotional. I'll be very interested to see where this goes.

EMaree
01-31-2015, 11:32 PM
I haven't seen the very latest episode, but I've been really enjoying this season. I wasn't sure about Kitty to begin with, but oh my god, it got SO GOOD SO FAST.

thevernacular
02-06-2015, 04:02 PM
I've only watched season one (get on it, Netflix!), but I've avoided spoilers to pop in and say how much I enjoy this show based solely on the fact that Jonny Lee Miller is positively brilliant. He presents a very interesting take on Sherlock in these days of Nasty Holmes (I love Cumberbatch but his Sherlock is so CRUEL sometimes and so awkward and not very true to Conan Doyle's version). I love his physicality: the way he can be very stiff and precise when presenting facts, and then have these great bursts of anger and energy when he's frustrated. The rest of the characters, in my opinion, are sort of meh (was even let down by Natalie Dormer, and Lucy Liu is on top of her character only when she and Sherlock are witty-bantering), but Miller is excellent – the whole reason I'll continue to watch the show.

Lavern08
02-07-2015, 11:50 PM
Ok,

... so Kitty caught her tormenter...:snoopy:

Wondering if she drugged him in order to bind and gag him and transport him to the warehouse - Or did I miss something?

Do you guys thinks she'll return to NY eventually?

Oh, and one more thing, I found myself getting bored with the "Meet the Parents" episode...

That is, until the very end - DANG! :eek:

robeiae
02-08-2015, 01:02 AM
This is the only show I currently watch "live."

I've yet to be disappointed with an episode. Miller is brilliant, but I think Liu is too.

I have to admit, I'm thinking of strapping a paint brush on my son's guinea pig and letting it run around on a big canvas...

Brandon M Johnson
02-08-2015, 09:50 PM
Season 3 has been quite strong so far, and I'm particularly glad to see the serialized narrative gaining a lot more momentum as compared to the at-times meandering second season. (This could be because, IMO, Kitty > Elementary's Mycroft.) The Kitty arc was strong and with the last episode's ending, the show's really getting lively.

It's interesting, because this season has gone back and forth between forward momentum (like the one before the Kitty two-parter or the last episode) and more existential, anti-climatic endings like "Bella" and "The Eternity Interjection"