Cop Shoots and Kills Double-Amputee

nighttimer · Sep 23, 2012

Police: Double amputee in wheelchair shot and killed by Houston officer at group home

By Associated Press, Published: September 22

HOUSTON — A Houston police officer shot and killed a one-armed, one-legged man in a wheelchair Saturday inside a group home after police say the double amputee threatened the officer and aggressively waved a metal object that turned out to be a pen.

Police spokeswoman Jodi Silva said the man cornered the officer in his wheelchair and was making threats while trying to stab the officer with the pen. At the time, the officer did not know what the metal object was that the man was waving, Silva said.

She said the man came “within inches to a foot” of the officer and did not follow instructions to calm down and remain still.
“Fearing for his partner’s safety and his own safety, he discharged his weapon,” Silva told The Associated Press.
Police did not immediately release the name of the man who was killed. They had been called to the home after a caretaker there called and reported that the man in wheelchair was causing a disturbance.

The owner of the group home, John Garcia, told the Houston Chronicle that the man had a history of mental illness and had been living at the house about 18 months. Garcia said the man had told him that he lost a leg above the knee and all of one arm when he was hit by a train.

“He sometimes would go off a bit, but you just ignore it,” Garcia told the newspaper.

link

I don't enjoy second-guessing the cops, but COME THE HELL ON! The guy had one arm, one leg and was waving a "metal object" that was a pen!

That is a justified shooting??? :Huh:

rugcat · Sep 23, 2012

nighttimer said:
I don't enjoy second-guessing the cops, but COME THE HELL ON! The guy had one arm, one leg and was waving a "metal object" that was a pen!

That is a justified shooting???

As usual, it's hard to tell without having been there.

If the officer thought it was a gun, maybe. Although it's pretty hard to mistake a pen for a gun.

If the officer thought it was a knife or some sort of cutting instrument, then, no, imo, it was unjustified. A guy running at you with a knife is deadly, and deadly force is totally justified. A guy in a wheel chair? Not so much. He "cornered" the officer? Come on, now.

Meanwhile, in San Francisco, right down the street from me, a plainclothes officer on gang suppression duty shot a suspected gang member who pointed a Tec-9 semi-automatic pistol at him when he attempted to stop and question him.

Mission residents were so outraged at the shooting that they protested, vandalizing the police station, spray painting "Killer Cops" (although the suspect was wounded and is expected to recover) on the front of the police station and and broke out windows of neighboring businesses, including a fitness center.

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/20...cer-shoots-armed-suspect-in-mission-district/

And here's reporting from a local neighborhood web based paper. The comments, mostly by residents, since it's a small local web paper, are quite interesting.

http://missionlocal.org/

Mara · Sep 23, 2012

I keep seeing this stuff. I know it's stressful work, but if cops are that jumpy, maybe we should give them better armor and protective equipment and fewer weapons?

rugcat · Sep 23, 2012

Mara said:
I keep seeing this stuff. I know it's stressful work, but if cops are that jumpy, maybe we should give them better armor and protective equipment and fewer weapons?

There are some 700,000 law enforcement officers of varying stripes in the US. In some places, confrontation with armed suspects is almost routine. In all places, confrontation with angry and potentially violent people is commonplace. It's amazing to me that there aren't more incidents.

And out of 700K in any profession, you are going to have a certain number of complete idiots and incompetents.

Each year, around 150 police officers lose their lives while at work -- not all in shootouts, but that's still a significant number.

There are some truly terrible officers, some bad departments, and some incredible acts of stupidity that go on. There are also countless instances of smart police, cops who defuse situations that could have ended up in tragedy. But those never reach the news.

Why should they? Distraught man threatens to shoot his neighbor. Cops arrive, talk the man down, take his gun, no one gets hurt. Where's the story?

But that happens a hundred times for every bad shooting, and each one of those is fraught with danger where a wrong or careless move can well result in tragedy.

Gretad08 · Sep 23, 2012

RC, I agree with you, and I'm usually one of the last to criticize police, but I do have a question.

I want to know the percentage of training time devoted to firearms, verses the percentage of training time devoted to boxing/martial arts/self-defense.

I just have to think, in a situation like this, the best choice would have been to physically disarm this man. Instead the first reaction wasn't to fight, but rather to reach for the weapon.

rugcat · Sep 23, 2012

Gretad08 said:
RC, I agree with you, and I'm usually one of the last to criticize police, but I do have a question.

I want to know the percentage of training time devoted to firearms, verses the percentage of training time devoted to boxing/martial arts/self-defense.

I just have to think, in a situation like this, the best choice would have been to physically disarm this man. Instead the first reaction wasn't to fight, but rather to reach for the weapon.

There's actually a lot of time given to baton training, restraint holds, and unarmed combat.

The trouble is, that to become proficient in a martial art takes dedication and a whole lot of time -- years in some cases. Becoming proficient with a firearm is a whole lot quicker and easier. There is ongoing training for both, though the amount varies greatly from department to department.

I do know, though I don't have statistics, that London bobbies, who are mostly unarmed, have a huge amount of baton training -- way, way more than any American department.

Of course, they don't have the problem of every other call involving someone possibly with a firearm.

JoyceH · Sep 23, 2012

Sorry, but there's no way a pen could be mistaken for a gun. A knife maybe, but the guy's in a wheelchair? And the cop is 'cornered'? If you think the guy in the wheelchair has a knife, you stick out your foot and WHEEL him away from you!

WinterDusk14 · Sep 24, 2012

I've lived in the US for two years, around 2002, so my memory could be off. But aren't police officers equipped with stun guns and mace? Or was it because this police officer had "mistaken" the metal object as a gun?

nighttimer · Sep 24, 2012

rugcat said:
As usual, it's hard to tell without having been there.

If the officer thought it was a gun, maybe. Although it's pretty hard to mistake a pen for a gun.

If the officer thought it was a knife or some sort of cutting instrument, then, no, imo, it was unjustified. A guy running at you with a knife is deadly, and deadly force is totally justified. A guy in a wheel chair? Not so much. He "cornered" the officer? Come on, now.

That's why my desire not to engage in Monday Morning Quartbacking is trumped by my "gimme a break" instinct. I find it hard to believe that a police officer who may (I emphasize "may") have among his available options, a gun, a baton, chemical spray, a taser and self-defense training and instruction on how to disarm a suspect, and his go-to move is to whip out his piece and shoot the fucker.

It's also important to note this is the second fatal incident this officer has been involved in during his five-year career with the Houston police....

Silva identified the officer as Matthew Jacob Marin, a five-year veteran of the department. He was immediately placed on three-day administrative leave, which is standard in all shootings involving officers.

Houston police records indicate that Marin also fatally shot a suspect in 2009. Investigators at the time said Marin came upon a man stabbing his neighbor to death at an apartment complex and opened fired when the suspect refused to drop the knife.

....though I do believe in this situation the go-to move would be to shoot the fucker.

rugcat said:
Meanwhile, in San Francisco, right down the street from me, a plainclothes officer on gang suppression duty shot a suspected gang member who pointed a Tec-9 semi-automatic pistol at him when he attempted to stop and question him.

The knee-jerk reaction would be to pick apart the key buzz words in that sentence, "plainclothes officer," "gang suppression duty," "suspected gang member," "Tec-9 semi-automatic pistol" and "stop and question" and reach the conclusion the disguised officer doubtlessly reached:

Shoot the fucker! :guns:

However, without the bedevilment of the details, we don't know who was right and who was wrong here. Every "suspected gang member" isn't involved in illegal activities at the time they are approached by a "plainclothes officer."

After the Patrick Dorismond case in 2000, my knee-jerk reaction is not to give the benefit of the doubt to the cops. Not until I know a lot more details.

TerzaRima · Sep 24, 2012

I just have to think, in a situation like this, the best choice would have been to physically disarm this man.

I see what you did there.

Cop Shoots and Kills Double-Amputee

nighttimer

No Gods No Masters

rugcat

Lost in the Fog

Mara

Clever User Title

rugcat

Lost in the Fog

Gretad08

rugcat

Lost in the Fog

JoyceH

WinterDusk14

Non-savvy tech writer

nighttimer

No Gods No Masters

TerzaRima

Absinthe O'Malice