As an agent - when do you decide to reject or sign based on a full?

GuruLord

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Another one of my dumb questions because I tend to think too much in the mornings. Blame my commute.

Requesting a full manuscript, I'm assuming, is a big deal. As an agent you're dedicating a lot of time to reading a manuscript that either has potential or you're hoping has the potential to be a sale for you. Now I know a lot of questions run through your mind when reading a full, such as do I love the voice? Do I love the plot? Can i sell this? Will people read it? Etc (i'm speaking as if I'm an agent, but I'm probably clueless ha).

Anyway, I'm just wondering, when does that feeling hit you that a) you want to sign the author b) that you want to reject.

Do you sometimes know you're going to reject or sign halfway through the full? I wouldn't be surprised that as an agent a decision is made just not to finish a full if you are not feeling a book or characters voice enough.

Just a curiosity question again :) I love hearing the responses from agents.
 

Cyia

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I'm not an agent, and it may be a while before one sees this thread.

A request for a full doesn't mean a full MS will be read. Some agents start with requests for fulls, rather than going for a partial first, and even those who request a full after a partial may only read two pages past the partial mark if that's where they lose interest or the plot falls apart.
 

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I've seen several agents use this as a shortcut: When reading the MS, do they already start thinking of editors to send it to who they're convinced would love that book?

Also, if they have to put the MS down for some reason, are they compelled to pick it up again later? Does the book stay with them when they're forced to take a break?

General writing quality, plot logic, character appeal, etc. contributes to this, of course, but the gut feeling has to be there as well.
 

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not an agent either, but I assume they read until they decide their time is better spent looking through someone else's work....which could be at page 2 or 450. I doubt they read too far past the impression that they are starting to waste their time, though, in case things "pick up" later.
 

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I'm not an agent either, but just wanted to add, they might get through the whole ms. and still decline it. You really never know. And a lot of agents won't waste their time talking to the author as to why they are declining it.

You might get some that also want to see revisions. But that's a whole nother ball game.
 

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I know an agent in non-fiction (he does business and computer programming books) who would routinely toss what looks like a good book to his preferred editor for a second opinion, to see how different is the book from what's out there and how much more work is needed, etc. If it's any good, then it goes into the 'maybe' pile that will eventually be discussed informally with his publisher contacts and see what kind of pull there is on their side. And God knows how long the ms sits in the 'maybe' pile...

This agent will not sign up a new author if he doesn't have some sort of indication one or more publisher will likely pick their book. It's just too costly $-wise and time-wise to sign up authors 'just in case' as a first step and then go shop for a publisher as a second and completely independent step. In other words, the whole value chain need be connected before you go through the hassle of putting a legal framework around it.

I doubt the thinking is different with agents dealing with works of fiction.

-cb
 

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Sorry, editor, not agent, but... it depends. I got almost to the very end of a manuscript recently before the author wrote about something that made me put it down and prepare the big R stamp. I do usually know before I get to the end, however, whether I am in love with the story or not.
 

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I know an agent in non-fiction (he does business and computer programming books) who would routinely toss what looks like a good book to his preferred editor for a second opinion, to see how different is the book from what's out there and how much more work is needed, etc. If it's any good, then it goes into the 'maybe' pile that will eventually be discussed informally with his publisher contacts and see what kind of pull there is on their side. And God knows how long the ms sits in the 'maybe' pile...

This agent will not sign up a new author if he doesn't have some sort of indication one or more publisher will likely pick their book. It's just too costly $-wise and time-wise to sign up authors 'just in case' as a first step and then go shop for a publisher as a second and completely independent step. In other words, the whole value chain need be connected before you go through the hassle of putting a legal framework around it.

I doubt the thinking is different with agents dealing with works of fiction.

-cb

Sorry, I *AM* an agent, and I think this is totally weird. And if the agent is actually SENDING MATERIAL to the editors, also unethical.

I might get second reads from my agency or dedicated readers -- I might even talk to very good friends who are editors, not on an "I'm pitching you this specific project" basis, but on a "how are we feeling about _____ category?" basis, leaving all specifics out of it - - but I sure as HELL don't send works that I don't represent to publishers, nor do I attempt to get editors interested before I rep the author.

Why? I DON'T REP THE AUTHOR YET. Why on earth would I spend my time pitching an author I don't rep? I have enough authors I *DO* rep that might want to sell some books... and I haven't yet been authorized by this unsigned author to hustle on his behalf.

Let's say this agent gets some editors interested, then ends up not signing the client. Well, now the editors are going to be irritated with the agent. Let's say the agent shows this work to editors and they pass -- well now the well is dirty, so whoever the author DOES end up with will have a problem pitching to those houses. Boo.

It's just too costly $-wise and time-wise to sign up authors 'just in case' as a first step and then go shop for a publisher as a second and completely independent step.
$-wise? Why would it be costly $-wise? If anything, I'm more likely to get more money if I have multiple houses competing in a hotly contested auction, which is highly UNLIKELY to happen if I am subbing the material sub-rosa, without the authors approval.

And taking material on faith without a guaranteed sale, because that's how much we believe in it, and we think we CAN sell it, figuring out its place in the market, figuring out how much work it needs, and then finding a publisher to sell it to? Err... that's sort a huge part of our job description, no?
 

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I want to echo Jennifer Laughran's comments about agents sending unrepresented work out to editors. It's wrong on all sorts of levels.

As for the OP's question, about when an agent might decide to sign based on a full: from my editorial viewpoint I'd say it's when you realise that the writing is brilliant, the plot outstanding, and the author can tell a really good story. Or, when you realise you have to have this book.
 

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Sorry, I *AM* an agent, and I think this is totally weird. And if the agent is actually SENDING MATERIAL to the editors, also unethical.

Exactly what I was thinking.

My impression, before I found rep, was that agents were requesting more fulls right off the bat -- why not, if you're requesting a digital document? No extra postage, no waste of paper.

To extrapolate my experience as a reader to how I'd behave as an agent: I might fall in love with a book on the first page, but I'd want to read the whole thing before I offered, in case the book fell apart between Chapter One and The End. Also extrapolating, but if I started disliking the book at any stage, I'd probably reject it right away.

Unless I thought it was a highly saleable Flavor of the Month? Do agents ever rep things they don't personally like but see the potential in? Complexities! Subtleties!

I'd love to hear answers to the above question. :D
 

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Unless I thought it was a highly saleable Flavor of the Month? Do agents ever rep things they don't personally like but see the potential in? Complexities! Subtleties!

I'd love to hear answers to the above question. :D

Ooh, ooh, pick me! I have one example, anyway.

An agent at the conference I was at recently talked about how she *almost* repped 50 Shades of Gray. She offered representation and was discussing with her colleagues ethical ramifications, "what does that say about me as an agent", etc. She never had to worry about it--James chose someone else--but it was an interesting story to hear. It was a case of someone having the readership and the marketability, if not the writing that agent was looking for. And I don't know who James's agent is, but maybe they are really enthusiastic about her writing, who knows.

My guess is, if that does happen, more often than not it's a case of an author with a big fanbase or who's done a great job of self-marketing, where the agent says "eh, not my thing, but I see dollar signs, why not." I would guess it's still pretty rare though (?) Something you don't really like seems like a hard sell.
 

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I'm not an agent, but I intern for a publisher. I read fulls and partials and write up reports about whether I think it's a pass or not. Personally, I tend to know pretty early on if it's working for me or not, but almost always read to the end of the full or partial. 90% of the time my feelings don't change, but sometimes a manuscript is fantastic after a slow start, so I try to finish unless it's painful.

Dialogue and voice are two of the big tipping points for me. If both are fresh and compelling, I might overlook other issues as long as the story is there. If the story is good, but the voice or dialogue are bland or worse, it's probably a no. I've said no on things I enjoyed reading, but just weren't right for us (usually too literary), or were well done but there wasn't anything particularly memorable. My suggestions for the first couple chapters would be snappy, fresh dialogue, get into action right away, don't rely too much on narrative summary, and make sure the voice is unique. No matter how good the story is, if the voice bores me to tears it's probably going to be a no. If you do the above and the prose itself is good, I'll probably read to the end.

Again, not an agent or an editor, but I'm guessing they see the same issues that I do as an editorial intern. Just my two cents.
 
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I know an agent in non-fiction (he does business and computer programming books) who would routinely toss what looks like a good book to his preferred editor for a second opinion, to see how different is the book from what's out there and how much more work is needed, etc. If it's any good, then it goes into the 'maybe' pile that will eventually be discussed informally with his publisher contacts and see what kind of pull there is on their side. And God knows how long the ms sits in the 'maybe' pile...
As a writer in this category, this hasn't been my experience. Partly because I don't normally write a book until there is a contract for it, usually it's the book proposal that gets shopped around. But I have never seen an agent hand a book to someone outside the agency for an opinion. I can't say it doesn't happen, and proposals get sent out all the time, but there's too much effort and too little money to complete a 700-800 page book with no guarantees. Or an advance.

On the other hand, agents are always talking to publishers about what they're looking for and what has been contracted so they know what to look for in their submissions. Non-fiction tech is a tough market to get into without already being an expert in and having a reputation in the field being written about.

One reason I virtually never use an agent in this market. Besides, 15% when I might only see $10-12,000 for an advance and no royalty payments ever doesn't usually entice agents into the field. :)

Jeff
 

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If you used an agent for those books, perhaps you'd get contracts which would pay you enough to make it worth it. Just a thought.
 

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Sorry, editor, not agent, but... it depends. I got almost to the very end of a manuscript recently before the author wrote about something that made me put it down and prepare the big R stamp. I do usually know before I get to the end, however, whether I am in love with the story or not.
OK. I'm really curious about what the author wrote - way at the end - that made you dump the whole book, but I'll only ask this: Why didn't you just ask the author if they'd remove the part that offended you, rather than reject it altogether?
 

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It might not be something that's removable: it could be a silly plot twist, a big coincidence, or something, which would need a lot of work to fix.