James Potter??

If Ms. Rowling wants to put up a fairground for her fans to play in ... that's her call.

Baby Jane said:

If the author of the original work has no problem with this I really have no right to but it still leaves me feeling slightly off.

Click to expand...

Pretty much sums up how I feel. It's setting a potentially hazardous precedent for those who don't want others to sell derivative works.

Very interesting.

Rowling must have been pretty impressed at what she read...

In the computer gaming world, they say fan-created mods can extend the life of a six-month blockbuster game up to a decade. I see fan fiction much the same way. It extends the life of a franchise beyond what the author can achieve. So, no, you're not selling the original work and, no, you have zero content control but it's a great way to expand an existing universe while allowing people who love your world to take part in it.

Now, I'm not sure it's the kind of thing I'd allow but I can't really fault anyone for allowing fan-based extensions. Mean, after seven books in the same universe, I'd personally be all out of ideas.

*shrug*

Not sure what to make of it really.

M.Macabre said:

Pretty much sums up how I feel. It's setting a potentially hazardous precedent for those who don't want others to sell derivative works.

Click to expand...

Is he actually selling anything? I thought the books were free to download... even the film is just a fan-made film.

I'm pretty sure if he or anyone tried to sell stories with HP characters in them the lawyers would be all over them in a jiffy. It sounds like the only reason her lawyers were interested in him at all was because the website was so professional looking it made it seem official/for monetary gain.

JK has always been happy about fan fiction. I don't think this guy just happened to impress her. I think he likely just made it clear that it's not for sale, even if it's packed in a shinier package than most fan fiction tends to be.

Some authors like fan stories, some don't. Those that don't can usually get the stories taken down without much trouble.

IMO fan fiction can keep people passionate about a series in between releases, or after it's finished. It's something you might need to keep an eye on, but, generally, more a force for good in an author's career than for harm.

lastlittlebird said:

Is he actually selling anything? I thought the books were free to download... even the film is just a fan-made film.

I'm pretty sure if he or anyone tried to sell stories with HP characters in them the lawyers would be all over them in a jiffy. It sounds like the only reason her lawyers were interested in him at all was because the website was so professional looking it made it seem official/for monetary gain.

JK has always been happy about fan fiction. I don't think this guy just happened to impress her. I think he likely just made it clear that it's not for sale, even if it's packed in a shinier package than most fan fiction tends to be.

Some authors like fan stories, some don't. Those that don't can usually get the stories taken down without much trouble.

IMO fan fiction can keep people passionate about a series in between releases, or after it's finished. It's something you might need to keep an eye on, but, generally, more a force for good in an author's career than for harm.

Click to expand...

I more meant that this doesn't bode well for anyone who might want to fight a possible derivative work in the future, as there's no real recent legal precedent. And while he's not selling the fanfiction, deceptive links to other works' websites and plugs for his Lulu books are intermingled with the HP fiction.

To be clear - as an author, I am 100% for fanfiction and fanning, but I consider it to be a ''reader'' activity. And while I detest myself for saying this, and will probably get flack for it, I am a bit a purist, since I believe that ''readerspace'' worlds and ''authorspace'' worlds should be separate. If I was a fellow fan seeking his fanfic, I would feel awkward if I were confronted with what are essentially ads for his original fiction while browsing his site. Heck, I felt awkward just looking over it now, even though he warns for it on one version of the site. I mean really, his site is just a fancier version of a person posting fanfiction while going, ''But look at the original fiction I've self-published also!''

I'm not saying that authors can't engage in reader activity, it just has the potential to alienate people if they do so as authors.

I see what you mean.
I'm not sure how I feel about that kind of promotion myself.

It is an interesting contrast with EL James, who decided to go the other way... instead of using her fan fic to promote original works, she turned her fan fic into an original work.
Who'd have thought there were so many potential financial benefits to writing fan fiction? Maybe I should dig out my old Disney fan fics

Baby Jane:
At first this really didn't sit well with me and I wondered where J K Rowlings lawyers were in all of this? Traditionally they have been very proactive in defending her intellectual rights. Reading on it turns out not only has J K Rowling read and approved of this book and its sequels but she has encouraged others to write this sort of fanfiction.

Click to expand...

It's free fanfiction. Rowling's never had a problem with that - in fact in a previous incarnation of her website, she used to give out awards (essentially mentions) for good fanfiction sites. She does however have a massive problem with paid for fiction. If you read the press release you've linked to (which you'll see dates from 2008 so it's 4 years out of date) you'll see that she does take action against fans seeking to profit from her work - hence the legal action against Steve Vander Ark, who basically tried to profit from his Lexicon, despite knowing that Rowling didn't want him to and that she was considering doing her own lexicon.

I happen to know someone from the law firm retained by Rowling for this type of thing (i.e. people seeking to make money from her work, including derivative works). They do take it seriously. They do serve cease and desist letters. They will look to take legal action.

From the wording of Lippert's press release, I would suggest that it's hyperbole. I'd I'd be very surprised if she had read his fanfiction, let alone expressed qualitative approval of it because of the risk to her if she wanted to write more about the Potter world in future (which she has repeatedly said that she's considering).

In the UK, authors really have little choice but to take action against people seeking to profit from derivative works because if they're shown to accept it, then the courts can claim that they've lost their rights. That doesn't mean they can't turn a blind eye to fanfic (which remains legally ambiguous due to no definitive precedent on the matter) and some see free fanfic as a good way of spreading word of mouth about their book - e.g. Mary Hoffman has publicly stated that she gets a kick out of seeing people writing about her Stravaganza series.

Regarding 50 Shades of Grey, I think that what James did was cruddy but it paid off for her and she's not the first person to do it. I would guess that the reason Meyer and her publisher didn't take action was because the story was AU enough for it to be difficult to prove derivative status and because it would probably harm her status with her fans (just as the Vander Ark case caused a lot of bad publicity for Rowling, although I think she was completely right to take it).

All just my opinion.

MM

I am sure some will disagree but if I had more money than Croesus, I wouldn't really care if someone wanted to ride my coattails in fanfic. If they made a few bucks, good on them.

M.Macabre said:

Pretty much sums up how I feel. It's setting a potentially hazardous precedent for those who don't want others to sell derivative works.

Click to expand...

Rights aren't determined by precedent. They can be waived with no repercussions other than to the work in question.

Just like me donating a car to charity has no repercussions for a case where some one steals yours.

M.Macabre said:

Pretty much sums up how I feel. It's setting a potentially hazardous precedent for those who don't want others to sell derivative works.

Click to expand...

No, it isn't. Rowling is far from the first writer to do this. I'm an old man, and this was happening back when I was a kid.

ccarver30 said:

I am sure some will disagree but if I had more money than Croesus, I wouldn't really care if someone wanted to ride my coattails in fanfic. If they made a few bucks, good on them.

Click to expand...

If it doesn't bother Rowling, her publisher, or her lawyers, then - meh, who cares? So long as the guy's not selling anything, then it's just fanfiction.

However, if sold, it's more than the idea of making "a couple of bucks." Derivative works can impact an author's future original works. The implication when an author has placed his/her stamp of approval on a 3rd party work is that the work is canon and up to standards, like a franchise novel. Fanfiction isn't that at all. Approved 3rd party fiction also implies that the storyline is one the original author isn't going to write or contradict him/herself later on.

If the quality isn't there, or if the original author later writes a story that's similar to or contradictory to the 3rd party's story, then things can get messy. Not just with fans and canon, but legally if the 3rd party wants to cry plagiarism for a storyline that's too similar for their tastes.

Actually, the precedent that bothers me more is fan fiction being shelved on Goodreads.

If a derivative work is authorized or otherwise legal, why not shelve it? A lot of the books I own and enjoy are in this category from Sherlock Holmes pastiche to authorized Mercedes Lackey fan magazines. Not to mention most versions of Robin Hood and franchise books like Star Wars.

veinglory said:

If a derivative work is authorized or otherwise legal, why not shelve it? A lot of the books I own and enjoy are in this category from Sherlock Holmes pastiche to authorized Mercedes Lackey fan magazines. Not to mention most versions of Robin Hood and franchise books like Star Wars.

Click to expand...

The James Potter series is no different from any other HP fan fiction, except the author happens to be a great self-promoter and has created a slick website. (And, in fairness, is a pretty good writer - I've read the first two JP books and liked them.) I'm worried about everyone who's written a full-length fan fiction novel shelving it on Goodreads.

veinglory said:

Rights aren't determined by precedent. They can be waived with no repercussions other than to the work in question.

Just like me donating a car to charity has no repercussions for a case where some one steals yours.

Click to expand...

You're correct in that rights aren't determined by precedent. However, the issue here isn't whether or not prosecution will happen, or whether or not you have the rights to your own work. The question is when it does happen, what will legally be considered stealing? What's being contested is what constitutes an original work. If Meyer had decided to pursue legal action against 50SOG, would she had been successful? Even though it's so blatantly crtl+f fanfic, because it's taken a life of its own and really bears little resemblance to the original work, it's entirely possible that Meyer's suit would fail.

Also, I don't think you can right off how important precedents are. Let's say someone writes a fanfiction of one of your works, files off the serial numbers and goes on to make a bagillion dollars. If you sued, they could use 50SOG as a precedent as part of their defense. The Potter stories in and of itself might not be as threatening, but it's opening a door to a world of possibilities.

Jamesaritchie said:

No, it isn't. Rowling is far from the first writer to do this. I'm an old man, and this was happening back when I was a kid.

Click to expand...

I wasn't referring to the fact that she has endorsed the fanfiction, as I'm well aware there's many creators who have done this and continue to support derivative works. The issue is how it's being presented. Unlike posting to FFnet or LJ, he's created a deceptive façade that insinuates more creator involvement and that his work is more ''official'' than other fanfiction. Now there's a strata of fanfiction; there's work made by fans, and work made by ''authors'', such as this guy.

Call me when JKR starts licensing people to publish books in her world. I've got a lot of Sirius-Remus slash gathering dust. And, hey, maybe I can give it this cool contemporary B&D AU twist!

$$$$$ $$$$$

M.Macabre said:

Even though it's so blatantly crtl+f fanfic, because it's taken a life of its own and really bares little resemblance to the original work, it's entirely possible that Meyer's suit would fail.

Click to expand...

Heh heh, it says bares.

Hunh hunh, but only bares little.

Heh heh, yeah, that sucks.

This is a non-issue.

JKR owns the rights to her work. She can do anything she wants with those rights.

M.Macabre said:

You're correct in that rights aren't determined by precedent. However, the issue here isn't whether or not prosecution will happen, or whether or not you have the rights to your own work. The question is when it does happen, what will legally be considered stealing?

Click to expand...

I don't see how this is any sort of legal precedent. She gave her permission, therefore it's legal. If she hadn't given her permission, it wouldn't have been. Same as it's always been.

I don't know whether she gave it prior, or if he really lucked out and she gave it retroactively -- from a legal point of view, it doesn't matter. With permission = legal.

I fail to see how this has anything to do with authors who do not give their permission and wish to prosecute infringing derivative works.

Phaeal said:

Heh heh, it says bares.

Hunh hunh, but only bares little.

Heh heh, yeah, that sucks.

Click to expand...

LOL dear God it's already been a long morning.

James D. Macdonald said:

This is a non-issue.

JKR owns the rights to her work. She can do anything she wants with those rights.

Click to expand...

Even though this is a legal example, I don't think its potential impact on other cases should be written off as a ''non-issue.'' In a perfect world, the difference between endorsed and non-endorsed fanfic would be obvious, but the world is far from perfect.

Phaeal said:

Call me when JKR starts licensing people to publish books in her world. I've got a lot of Sirius-Remus slash gathering dust. And, hey, maybe I can give it this cool contemporary B&D AU twist!

$$$$$ $$$$$

Click to expand...

She's staunchly against porn of her work.

JK ROWLING has given the go-ahead to copycat writers posting “fan fiction” sequels to Harry Potter ...

Her lawyers confirmed the author would be happy for spin-offs to be published online, provided it was made clear she was not involved and the publications were not sold.

She also requested that the follow-ups do not contain any racism or pornography[\QUOTE]


Read more: http://crushable.com/entertainment/jk-rowling-says-she-is-okay-with-fan-fiction/#ixzz26wMGnOoM

Click to expand...

Amadan said:

The James Potter series is no different from any other HP fan fiction, except the author happens to be a great self-promoter and has created a slick website. (And, in fairness, is a pretty good writer - I've read the first two JP books and liked them.) I'm worried about everyone who's written a full-length fan fiction novel shelving it on Goodreads.

Click to expand...

I'm having trouble finding the link right now, but in one of the Goodreads "about goodreads" discussion groups, there was a long debate about this which resulted in the GR admins pointing out that this is totally fine with them.

There is nothing in the Goodreads ToS that says fanfiction can't be shelved.

And I feel exactly the same way as you do about that. :\

M.Macabre said:

The issue is how it's being presented. Unlike posting to FFnet or LJ, he's created a deceptive façade that insinuates more creator involvement and that his work is more ''official'' than other fanfiction. Now there's a strata of fanfiction; there's work made by fans, and work made by ''authors'', such as this guy.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure I understand the issue, here. Fanfiction is fanfiction is fanfiction. It doesn't matter who wrote it, their caliber of writing, or their notariety. It might be... odd if, say, Stephen King suddenly started advertising that he wrote HP fanfiction... but he's got as much right as any average Joe to do so. Right? Being an author doesn't mean you can't have writing hobbies. He still couldn't legally sell his fanfiction. He couldn't legally say it was canon and endorsed by Rowling or her publisher if it wasn't.

In my FF circle, it's surprising to find a fanfic writer who isn't also working on their own, original stuff. If I like the way a fanfic writer writes, I'll check out their other stories in the fandom. If I really like the way they write, I'll even read their stories in fandoms I don't actively support. And I'd probably like to know if they've written original stuff I could read, as well. So I don't see the problem with someone letting fanfic readers know he's got original stuff to sell. If people are spending money on his original fiction, it's because they like him as a writer, not because of the fandom he's writing in. The fandom isn't selling his original stuff; his own skill is.

Yes, his website and graphics and videos all look very amazing and official. As a fanfic reader, I think that's really cool. Fanfic writers create websites for their fanfic all the time. Most of them are not that elaborate. But still... it doesn't legally make it any less fanfiction.

Is it just the principle of the matter that bothers you or are you really worried about the legality of it?

M.Macabre said:

If you sued, they could use 50SOG as a precedent as part of their defense.

Click to expand...

They couldn't use 50SoG as a precedent specifically because there hasn't been a lawsuit. To form a precedent, a legal decision must be made (IANAL). If Meyer sued and lost, then yes, it would set a precedent that sufficiently filed-off fanfic was okay to publish. If Rowling sued the JamesPotterSeries guy and lost, it would set a precedent that it's okay to write and distribute fanfic with no intent to sell.

But neither of these cases would change what's considered plaigiarism. You still wouldn't be able to sell plagairized works or straight-up fanfiction. What are you worried is going to come of this, specifically?