Question about problems with selling SF and fantasy novels

I'm not sure if this is the best place for this question, or if editor's question forum is better, but I've been told that SF and fantasy novels (particularly traditional high fantasy novels) are a very tough sell in today's market, and most agents (even ones who say they take fantasy) are reluctant to touch them.

To put it bluntly, other aspiring writers have told me "traditional fantasy is out of favor right now," and "no one is buying fantasy that isn't contemporary, a paranormal romance or involving vampires and werewolves."


One reason I've heard given for this is:


There are "only" six large press imprints that accept high fantasy these days (Tor, Daw, Orbit etc). I've been told that this means that even an excellent high fantasy or SF novel is a risk for an agent, because with only six potentially profitable markets, it is statistically quite probable that an agent won't find a buyer for said novel (because the timing is just wrong for all six while he's out pounding on doors and once an editor has said no to a particular novel, even regretfully, that no is forever).

This has me scratching my head, as each of these fantasy/SF imprints is a subsidiary of one of the so-called "big six" publishers. The term big six implies to me that there are only six large press publishers left, period.

So what I am getting at, is how is the situation different for SF and fantasy than it is for any other genre of fiction being published today (i.e. police thrillers, mysteries, romance, children's, chick lit etc)? Don't the so-called big six have just one imprint each for each of these and other genres as well? Wouldn't this issue of only having six potentially profitable markets be an issue for any novel before the agent has to start knocking on the doors of small presses (and seeing a lot less monetary return for his or her effort)?

Or do the other genres of fiction have multiple imprints from each of the so-called big six? If so, why don't they have multiple imprints for SF and fantasy as well, when they seem to be fairly popular as genres (with more fantasy titles, including some high fantasy wrist-sprainers) appearing on the bestseller racks in grocery stories alongside the bodice rippers and thrillers and so-called "mainstream" titles.

I accept that I'm going to have a really tough time selling a first novel, since I am pretty wedded to traditional fantasy as a genre, but I'd like to know why.

Filigree said:

I've heard exactly the opposite, from some editors and agents I trust.


In the end, what the market does in any given quarter shouldn't matter to you. Write the best story you can, in whatever genre you love, and then try to find its market.

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I certainly agree with you there. And it does seem silly to try to write a novel "for" a particular market that seems to be hot at the moment but could cool off within the next year or so. I'm expecting a lot of Hunger Games clones that deal with some sort of "extreme and deadly" sport/competition to appear soon, shoving aside the army of Twilight inspired vampire and werewolf novels (and no, I'm not knocking vampires and werewolves. They've been interesting tropes for a very long time and hope they will continue to be).

It takes a while to write and polish a novel (especially when one has a day job, as nearly all unpublished and most published novelists must). And it takes more time to get a query package together and for an interested agent to get it out to the editors and any interested editor to get it ready to go to press.

And markets aside, I know if I wrote something that wasn't the kind of story I like to read, it would be ... flat, even if it was technically well written.

But the comment about high fantasy being an especially tough sell came from an agent I've met and from two friends who have had more luck querying in other subgenres in fantasy.

thothguard51 said:

KateJJ,

I
I think we have seen a bit of that misunderstanding here in query letter hell. A member will post and note this is High Fantasy in their query. When I read the query and do not see the trappings of HF, as I understand it, I will often ask the poster what makes this story HF. Most of the time, I get answers that do not fit the definition of HF. Now imagine an agent or editor looking for HF and the query says its HF, but it is not...

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You're probably thinking of me here, as you made that comment in my query thread. Of course, I didn't include a lot of world building details into my query because, well, that's not what you're supposed to put into a query.


This is the Wikipedia nutshell definition of HF, and this is (in part) what I am basing my assessment of my own work on.

"High fantasy is defined as fantasy fiction set in an alternative, entirely fictional ("secondary") world, rather than the real, or "primary" world. The secondary world is usually internally consistent but its rules differ in some way(s) from those of the primary world. By contrast, low fantasy is characterized by being set in the primary, or "real" world, or a rational and familiar fictional world, with the inclusion of magical elements.[2][3][4][5]
Nikki Gamble distinguishes three subtypes of high fantasy:[4]

• A setting in which the primary world does not exist[4] (e.g. The Lord of The Rings, The Prydain Chronicles, The Inheritance Cycle, The Wheel of Time, A Song of Ice and Fire, The Name of the Wind)
• The secondary/parallel world(s) is entered through a portal from the primary world[4] (e.g. Alice in Wonderland, The Chronicles of Narnia,[4] His Dark Materials, Xanth, The Dark Tower, and Avantasia)
• A distinct world-within-a-world as part of the primary world[4] (e.g. Gods of Pegana, Percy Jackson, Harry Potter and The Secrets of the Immortal Nicholas Flamel)...."

They go on to discuss some of the different sybtypes and stories and characters who have traditionally appeared in HF


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_fantasy


Now Wikipedia is not always right, and definitions of things can also be fuzzy too, but I think my own world fits pretty firmly into the first of the three subcategories.

Some of my favorite modern fantasy writers are Lynn Flewelling, Robin Hobb, Patrick Rothfuss, Glenda Larke, George RR Martin, Mercedes Lackey, Brandon Sanderson, Brent Weeks and so on, and they have definitely influenced my worldbuilding and voice to varying degrees. I consider these writers to be high fantasy as they all fall well into the auspices listed above.

I had not heard that high fantasy "had" to have a particular type of language or voice, though it often has in the past (but stories with that old-fashioned or archaic style language seem to be getting rarer--even Martin has a pretty modern feel to his dialog for all that he sprinkles some older words in here and there).

I am certainly prepared to believe that agents and editors have a different definition from what I posted from Wikepedia above. But This may be the source of the misunderstanding. I have yet to see an agent define exactly what they mean by HF when they say the accept it as a genre. I thought it was a pretty broad category, but I guess you are saying I am wrong there.

So if these writers (and my own work) are not high fantasy, which subcategory of fantasy are they? They're not low fantasy, certainly, as they are not set on the normal Earth or worlds with rules just like the normal Earth. Some may qualify as S&S (if S&S is not simply a subgenre of high fantasy), but not all (my understanding is that S&S characters tend to be professional mercenaries, rogues and adventurers and the stakes in their stories are often more localized or personal than with traditional HF).

And if you are using a different definition of high fantasy that what is presented on the Wikipedia site, please point me towards it, so I can discover what my "set in a very magical world that is not Earth and has no real connection to Earth and has a reluctant protagonist who is caught up in something potentially world changing and definitely larger than himself hero's journey tale" actually is for querying purposes.

Ton Lew Lepsnaci said:

It would be useful to have a sticky that attempted to define the sub-genres epic, high, adventure and historical fantasy (other genres welcome too of course).

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I've never heard the term "adventure fantasy" before as a specific subgenre. I'd love to see a definition of it, as maybe that's what my story (and most of my favorite writers) really are if the Wikipedia definition of HF is wrong as far as editors and agents are concerned.

Adventure fantasy seems redundant and imprecise as a term, though, as I can't think of very many fantasy stories that don't involve some element of adventure.