Any advice for the village idiot?

GHF65

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I'm sure this has been dealt with somewhere on this board. I could swear I read it. I can't find it. Forgive me and throw me a bone; I'll go away.

I've almost completed another book. I have a first book with iUniverse (go ahead and laugh . . . I'll wait). :e2file:

Because the two books are on the same theme--advice and information for horse people given with a lot of solid background and a dose of humor--it would make more sense (to me--not a valid source, perhaps) for me to try to place the first book with a legitimate ("commercial", "traditional", "real") publisher first. IUniverse only requires written 30 days' notice to release me from my contract (which only runs till November anyway). The rights are still mine. They gave me no problems when I sold Finnish language rights to a Finnish translator, which bodes well for their willingness to see me gone.

My question is this: How do I present this to a publisher? I'm leaning towards never again admitting that this book saw daylight. It's a good book, not in need of editing or overhaul. What it could use is illustrations, but that's a separate issue. Only about 200 copies sold (no, not all to me), so it's unlikely that any publisher, agent, or other person of great power and repute has or will ever come across it in my lifetime.
  1. Do I come right out and say, "Hi! I'm an a**hat. I have a POD book to my discredit and would like you to try to see me as a legitimate writer anyway"?
  2. Do I just query as if it had never been printed, or is that poor form?
  3. Do I query on/submit the second MS and hope that it's so well-recieved that the publisher BEGS for more, allowing me to slip in that first book after the fact?
  4. Do I shut up about the first book entirely, pretend the second book is my first, and hope no one wises up before I succumb to a horse-related injury which will earn me sufficient sympathy to make my detractors feel like dolts when that first MS turns up next to the other skeletons in my posthumous (or post-lawn-dart) closet?
Is there something else I should do that I haven't thought of?

I'm concerned because there are so few publishers who produce the kind of stuff I write that I certainly don't want to alienate any of them. I'm sure the three of them talk. I would like my name to be bandied about in a good way, if at all possible. Like, "Hey! I got an amazing manuscript from an erudite but hitherto-unknown author named (fill in my name) that I think is going to set the publishing world on fire! Could you pass the scones?" would be a best-case scenario. The laughter should come after the reading of the sample chapters, not on first mention of my name.

Any help would be appreciated.
 

Lauri B

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Schoolmarm said:
I'm sure this has been dealt with somewhere on this board. I could swear I read it. I can't find it. Forgive me and throw me a bone; I'll go away.

I've almost completed another book. I have a first book with iUniverse (go ahead and laugh . . . I'll wait). :e2file:

Because the two books are on the same theme--advice and information for horse people given with a lot of solid background and a dose of humor--it would make more sense (to me--not a valid source, perhaps) for me to try to place the first book with a legitimate ("commercial", "traditional", "real") publisher first. IUniverse only requires written 30 days' notice to release me from my contract (which only runs till November anyway). The rights are still mine. They gave me no problems when I sold Finnish language rights to a Finnish translator, which bodes well for their willingness to see me gone.

My question is this: How do I present this to a publisher? I'm leaning towards never again admitting that this book saw daylight. It's a good book, not in need of editing or overhaul. What it could use is illustrations, but that's a separate issue. Only about 200 copies sold (no, not all to me), so it's unlikely that any publisher, agent, or other person of great power and repute has or will ever come across it in my lifetime.

  1. Do I come right out and say, "Hi! I'm an a**hat. I have a POD book to my discredit and would like you to try to see me as a legitimate writer anyway"?
  2. Do I just query as if it had never been printed, or is that poor form?
  3. Do I query on/submit the second MS and hope that it's so well-recieved that the publisher BEGS for more, allowing me to slip in that first book after the fact?
  4. Do I shut up about the first book entirely, pretend the second book is my first, and hope no one wises up before I succumb to a horse-related injury which will earn me sufficient sympathy to make my detractors feel like dolts when that first MS turns up next to the other skeletons in my posthumous (or post-lawn-dart) closet?
Is there something else I should do that I haven't thought of?

I'm concerned because there are so few publishers who produce the kind of stuff I write that I certainly don't want to alienate any of them. I'm sure the three of them talk. I would like my name to be bandied about in a good way, if at all possible. Like, "Hey! I got an amazing manuscript from an erudite but hitherto-unknown author named (fill in my name) that I think is going to set the publishing world on fire! Could you pass the scones?" would be a best-case scenario. The laughter should come after the reading of the sample chapters, not on first mention of my name.

Any help would be appreciated.

hi Schoolmarm!
So is the problem that you are worried that if a traditional publisher knows you self-published your first book they won't work with you at all, or that they won't want to pick up your first book because it has already been out there? If you're looking for a traditional publisher that specializes in horses, I don't think the fact that you self-pubbed (or vanity pubbed) and sold 200 copies is any big deal. Don't lie about it, though--that's no way to build a solid relationship. Pitch whichever book is stronger (and whichever book you actually have the rights to!), and see what happens. If you decide to submit your pubbed book, make sure the rights have reverted back to you, and be up front with where you've sold it and how many copies. There's no shame in self-publishing a book, especially if you have an avenue for distribution.
 

GHF65

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Thanks for the quick reply, Nomad.

My concern is that I don't know whether or not I have a concern. From what I've read on the AW forums, some publishers won't work with a writer who has POD'd. Others will. I don't know how to tell the difference other than by querying, which is like asking the cops, "What if someone burgled themselves . . . would that be a crime?" Handcuffs would surely follow. I'm trying to avoid them.

If I submit the new book, do I put the POD book on my CV as a publishing credit? I'm under the impression that it's a no-no to consider it such, and I certainly wouldn't want to appear ignorant unless it's unavoidable. As I said, options are very limited in my field. If I cut off one, there aren't others ready to pop up in its place. Most people in my niche group self-publish, but the successful ones have a lecture/clinic circuit platform (and their own newsletters and magazines and t-shirt logos and hats) from which to push their books. I'm not in that league and won't get there if I arrive at the dance wearing a clown suit while the rest of the guests are in tuxes.

Do I leave the POD book off my CV entirely?
 

Julie Worth

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No one says you have to put everything in there. If you entered a contest and lost, would you mention it? No. Same thing with a self-published book. Unless it was a big success, of course!

But looking back at your original question, if you query on the book you self-published, then naturally you have to tell them that.

 
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GHF65

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Okay. I definitely get that analogy.

The first book was good. I know that, and so do my readers. I don't want to just toss it away. That brings me to the next question:

Assuming I verify that I have all rights back on that first book, do I submit is as a MS without saying it was previously POD'd? Or do I say "I've got this formerly-POD book I'd like you to look at"?

Is there any rule that says (again assuming all rights have reverted to me) I can't cannibalize that first book to create another one? This is non-fiction/humor. The chapters in both current books are essays from the column I wrote (or new ones on the same line), so they stand alone well or work together as a chronological perspective on something or other. If I can't get someone to publish the first book due to its POD history, can I chew it up and spit it out in a new form and call it "New and Improved"?

Are these inane questions, or what?
 

Lauri B

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Schoolmarm said:
Okay. I definitely get that analogy.

The first book was good. I know that, and so do my readers. I don't want to just toss it away. That brings me to the next question:

Assuming I verify that I have all rights back on that first book, do I submit is as a MS without saying it was previously POD'd? Or do I say "I've got this formerly-POD book I'd like you to look at"?

Is there any rule that says (again assuming all rights have reverted to me) I can't cannibalize that first book to create another one? This is non-fiction/humor. The chapters in both current books are essays from the column I wrote (or new ones on the same line), so they stand alone well or work together as a chronological perspective on something or other. If I can't get someone to publish the first book due to its POD history, can I chew it up and spit it out in a new form and call it "New and Improved"?

Are these inane questions, or what?
I wouldn't pretend that the first book was never published--you'd be surprised how things like that tend to come out later. We picked up a self-published book that the author swore up and down had only been sold on his web site. We found out later that it had not only been sold all over the place, but that he'd also sold audio rights and had an audio book out there, too. It was a big mess and sales were terrible. Tell the truth about the POD, and suggest that you could rework the book if that's what the publisher wants. You've already said it is a niche market where lots of respected people self publish. It doesn't sound like it will be a detriment to mention your self-pubbed book, either.
Good luck!
 

GHF65

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Thanks! I appreciate your candor. I'll take your suggestion.
 

maestrowork

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Have you considered rewriting the first one (since you said it needed a major overhaul)? Then you can market it as a brand new book (give it a new title, too). Always present to an agent/editor your best work.
 

GHF65

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Hi, Maestrowork. Thanks for jumping in here. The more voices, the merrier!

First, it's not that the first book needs an overhaul. It's fine the way it is. In fact, it's good the way it is. :D It's a compilation of my articles, which were not only published, but popular. Read by actual people who wrote to me to tell me they'd read them. I . . . I coulda been a contender! :cry:

But, I digress.

I was trying to find out if reworking it would qualify it as a new book which I could farm out completely separately from the original (which I would simply file away and try to ignore). You answered that question, which I appreciate. It's very difficult getting definitive information, and as I said earlier, I don't want to step on toes that I might need to dance with later.

This business has just enough of the political--and I'm just a-political enough--to make it a little intimidating for those of us who stomp on toes as a matter of course and even get paid for the privilege.

Thanks again for your input.