Ask an Animator

Status
Not open for further replies.

Rhubix

New kid, critique harshly!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 10, 2010
Messages
388
Reaction score
71
Location
Toronto via Newfoundland
Hi all - as discussed in the digital art thread, I'm here to answer all your animation questions. :D
I've been animating - or doing animation related activities in Toronto (Canada) for about 5 years now. So, keep in mind that my experience is somewhat limited by geography.

I'll start out with the questions I get most frequently. Please ask anything, and I'll do my best to answer your questions myself, or ask my colleagues to help me out.

FAQ:

Will you look at/critic my cartoons/animations?

Absolutely.
My best suggestion is that you start a sketchbook thread on http://conceptart.org/. It is like the Absolute Write of art. (my sketchbook is in my signature).
Alternatively, you can just PM me and we'll figure something out :D.

What's it like to be an animator? / what is your daily routine?
Animation is quite a bit like writing. It is very uncommon for a person to have a 9-5 job for long periods of time. Most often we work contracts, varying in length from a few weeks to a couple of years. All of my contracts have been between 6-9 months long.
That means that while I may be working in a studio I am also padding my demo reel and website, networking, and keeping an eye out for my next job.

At my current job I check the list of scenes that need special effects. The scene has already been through the character animation stage, effects is last in the animation pipeline.
If I haven't done that particular type of effect before - lets say slime - I check the inventory of previously made effects for style and colour. If there is a reference I match the style and movement. If not, I make an educated guess, based on other effects and design something appropriate.
The finished scene goes to my animation director, who will give me revision notes, or approve it.
That scene goes to the over all director and producer who will give more-different revision notes or approve it.
Once I've revised the appropriate amount, the scene is sent to the render guys.

Do you need a degree to be an animator?

Short answer - no.

long answer
- The actual degree is not as important as the stuff you learn while attending school. There are people who have no formal art education that do very well in the industry. Stephen Silver (designer for shows like "Kim Possible", "Danny Phantom") is self taught, and started work as a caricature artist in malls and stuff.

If you jump into the industry with no formal education you will need a substantial portfolio to make up for it - at least at the level of a solid graduate, if not better.

Personally - I'm not a natural talent - I went to the 4 year classical animation program at MTM

Do you need to know how to draw to be an animator?

Short answer - no.

Long answer - I know plenty of 3D animators that cannot draw, or have limited drawing skills.
If your interested in 2D animation, drawing skills are not as important as they once where. However, the job market is quite competitive and applicants who can draw will be hired before those who can't.
Also, (as elaborated below) there are lots of jobs in animation that aren't actually animating. The more you're capable of, the more contracts you can apply for. There's no guarantee that animating alone will keep you employed all year round.

Parts of the animation pipeline:

This isn't a frequent question, but it's a biggie. Most people don't realize how many different jobs there are within the cartoon family -
Animation is broken up into lots of little pieces and all composited together as a fancy end product.
The initial list is based on a 2D pipeline, since I have the most experience in this field. I'll stick to the entirely art related ones (obviously we have writers, sales, HR, and a bunch of other logistical things as well)

Design:
Usually you have a lead designer who comes up with the overall style of a show. He /She will do major location design, characters, and a few props for reference.
Bigger budgets will segregate location, characters, and props to different people or teams.

These designs go to the Storyboard artist. This person (or team if the budget is big enough) maps out the entire episode, blocking in the camera angles and character posing.

More on Backgrounds
Layout - these guys take the storyboard and draw every angle of the backgrounds depicted in the story board, adhering to the initial designers plans. The final product is clean line art, depending on the show it could be pencil, vector or pixel art.

Background painting - These folks take the Layout art work and paint it. Most of it is digital now, but high budget may include gouache or watercolour paintings.

Prop Design
This may or may not be clumped in with the character design. A lead may just draw a single view of a prop and have an underling clean the drawing and do the rotation. It's all based on budget.

More on Characters
unless the budget is super small, the initial character designs are handed to subordinates. The lesser designers clean the drawings and create character rotations, expression charts, hand charts.
Sometimes this is done on paper and transferred into the program to be cleaned again, other times it is done directly in the program.

In a cut-out show (often called flash-style) The cleaned drawings are passed to the riggers / character breaker. They are then converted into puppets. These puppets are passed to the character animators.

Animation happens!

In a classical show- designs go to the key animators, or lead animators.
In higher budget productions, clean up of keys and the in-between drawings are done by junior animators.

In a cut out show, each animator is assigned a block of scenes. (Film could be as few as 3 seconds a week, TV 30-60 seconds a week)

Once character animation is done the scenes go to the special effects and compositing people. (like me!) We make sure all the dust, snot, slime, bubbles, splashes, lasers are all in there
If necessary we adjust the colours, add highlights, shadows and all the finishing touches.

Finally the scenes are sent to rendering and editing.

For 3D animation add in modelers, texture artists, lighting aritsts, matte painters - and turn rigging and FX into a math nightmare with lots of drinking.




So, that got long winded! I'll shut up now - ask away :D
 
Last edited:

druid12000

You're out of your tree...
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 23, 2011
Messages
7,213
Reaction score
507
Location
The dark side of the moon, making sinister plans..
I am sooooo glad you posted this thread!

I will start off saying I am not an animator by trade or schooling. I just have an idea that I would love to bring to fruition because it means a lot to me.

Ok, here goes...

I have an idea for proposing to my girlfriend. I know she will say yes, not an issue at all. We grew up together, lost contact for a lot of years, and are now in a long distance relationship (she's in Nova Scotia, I'm in New Hampshire). None of that is important to this but I wanted to give some background.

The idea seemed so simple at first but there are so many facets to consider. I have a class photo from our elementary school and I want to either do claymation or CGI to make our images 'pop' out of the picture and dance together to what will be our wedding song (Snow Patrol 'Chasing Cars'). That alone has many facets, but I would also like to have our teacher and the rest of the class animated, just sort of swaying back and forth, maybe the teacher acting like a conductor of an orchestra.

I have considered and am still considering just going to school for computer animation/game design just so I can make this happen (I would enjoy the game design side of things, both as a writer and a gamer).

Any suggestions you have will be most welcome. Thanks !
 

Rhubix

New kid, critique harshly!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 10, 2010
Messages
388
Reaction score
71
Location
Toronto via Newfoundland
I have an idea for proposing to my girlfriend. I know she will say yes, not an issue at all. We grew up together, lost contact for a lot of years, and are now in a long distance relationship (she's in Nova Scotia, I'm in New Hampshire). None of that is important to this but I wanted to give some background.
Cute.
The idea seemed so simple at first but there are so many facets to consider.


I have a class photo from our elementary school and I want to either do claymation or CGI to make our images 'pop' out of the picture and dance together to what will be our wedding song (Snow Patrol 'Chasing Cars'). That alone has many facets, but I would also like to have our teacher and the rest of the class animated, just sort of swaying back and forth, maybe the teacher acting like a conductor of an orchestra.
It doesn't sound simple at all
I have considered and am still considering just going to school for computer animation/game design just so I can make this happen (I would enjoy the game design side of things, both as a writer and a gamer).
I'll start with this bit. Unless you're looking at indi-games, game designers and writers are not the same person. I donno how one goes about writing for games- so I won't touch that one.

To be blunt- game design is the hardest job to attain in the whole gaming/ animation world. (unless you are one of those obnoxious people who are born with magical skillz)
If you are going to spend buckets of money on an education you should go for illustration or animation and work towards this job.
I know lots of people who get hung up on "design" jobs, and have a hard time staying employed regularly.
The key to making enough money to eat and live indoors is diversity.
I'd be happy to take a look at any work you have - you can tell by how someone draws which rout they'll thrive in.


As for your project - I think your best bet would be motion graphics - basically moving still images and lots of flashy simple animation - there's lots of reference around on youtube. In terms of user-friendliness its the biggest bang for your buck.

Next best bet is Stop Motion
It's a bit daunting, but if you have the patience it's beginner friendly. You don't need high end models, you can work with pipe cleaners if you wanted to.
Just to give you a frame of reference. Your song is about 3:45 seconds long.(225 seconds)
Low quality stop motion uses 12 -15 frames per seconds or 2700 - 3375 photos.
Average quality is 24 or 30 fps.
All you really need is an area to work where you can control your lighting and a mounted camera. Digital cameras make it a pretty cheap option.

CG- animation goes much faster, but the trick is modeling and rigging everything. 3D riggers are a whole different breed - closer resembling a programmer than an artist. I'm not sure what your time frame is but it's definitely a years-long process of learning.
 
Last edited:

druid12000

You're out of your tree...
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 23, 2011
Messages
7,213
Reaction score
507
Location
The dark side of the moon, making sinister plans..
Thanks for the quick reply!
And thanks for the advice, it may actually work better with 'stick' figures and be a hell of a lot easier.

As for my art, I really don't have any, other than writing. This was just something that came to me and keeps nagging me...kinda like my stories :)

Thanks again and I will definitely look you up again.

BTW: You don't happen to know a puppeteer named Terry Angus do you?
 
Last edited:

Rhubix

New kid, critique harshly!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 10, 2010
Messages
388
Reaction score
71
Location
Toronto via Newfoundland
Rhubix, can you critique my animation?

This was made for my company, it contains animated photography. I could seriously use an honest critique for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5LQRR8y74k&list=UUSKeLy5ZshPZ0q6sw935nnQ&index=2&feature=plcp

No prob- honesty is my middle name. ^_^
When your animating photography like this it's considers "motion graphics" - which is actually a whole industry all by itself.
I'm not sure what program you used for this but if you dig motion graphics you should look into After effects, and editing programs like Adobe Premier and (the much better apple alternative) Final cut.

Over all, I think the video suits the medium. There's nothing that stands out as super amateurish.
So - I'll get super nit-picky :D
With a project like this, I've always found a partner- or a sounding board really helpful. If one of you thinks of something cool- the other can try to out do you, or elaborate. One person says- lets add a shine to this - another says lets add lasers, and soon things spiral out of control and you find some middle ground that's dynamic, without becoming an old spice commercial.

For example, strongest part of this piece is the beginning, where the weight lifter flashes between black and natural colours then sparks to full colour. It's emphasized by the long zoom in followed by the quick zoom and "bang" sound. I would have liked seeing this transition echoed more through out the piece.
The second and fourth images (Endurance & commitment) fade in without a significant camera zoom or colour adjustment.
Endurance lady leaves a significant amount of blank space, and the woman is facing away from the space, making it seem larger.
The basketball player again brings back the nice quick movement, and, though he is facing outwards, you bring the emphasis back into the frame when the word "skill" fills the empty space. So it's also nice and dynamic.

I've noticed most people lean towards slower and longer when their uncertain about timing and staging. Take a look at some motion graphics footage on youtube- it'll really blow your mind how much crap you can throw at a screen and change from one shot to another before the brain starts to complain :D

Hope this helps!
 

Rhubix

New kid, critique harshly!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 10, 2010
Messages
388
Reaction score
71
Location
Toronto via Newfoundland
Thanks for the quick reply!
And thanks for the advice, it may actually work better with 'stick' figures and be a hell of a lot easier.

As for my art, I really don't have any, other than writing. This was just something that came to me and keeps nagging me...kinda like my stories :)

Thanks again and I will definitely look you up again.

BTW: You don't happen to know a puppeteer named Terry Angus do you?

No problem. :) always happy to help.
I didn't know Terry Angus, but after a quick google search I know his work :D
If you want to see some really cool puppet/ stop motion work take a look at Lotte Reigner . Oldie, but a goodie.
 

druid12000

You're out of your tree...
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 23, 2011
Messages
7,213
Reaction score
507
Location
The dark side of the moon, making sinister plans..
I grew up and went to school with Terry and worked on his rough version of 'Blizzard Island' in eighth grade (he was a senior then).

I will check out Lotte Reigner, just cuz you seem to be passionate about what you do and have a great deal of knowledge.

Thanks again!
 

sunandshadow

Impractical Fantasy Animal
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 17, 2005
Messages
4,827
Reaction score
336
Location
Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Website
home.comcast.net
I have been unable to find a good piece of software for making vector (svg) animated sprites. Illustrator and Inkscape really don't do much with the animation side, and Flash is more a programming IDE plus clearly on the way out now that it's not supported by it's maker. Any suggestions?
 

Rhubix

New kid, critique harshly!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 10, 2010
Messages
388
Reaction score
71
Location
Toronto via Newfoundland
I have been unable to find a good piece of software for making vector (svg) animated sprites. Illustrator and Inkscape really don't do much with the animation side, and Flash is more a programming IDE plus clearly on the way out now that it's not supported by it's maker. Any suggestions?

To be honest I'm not the best person to answer this question. I leave the techno-geekary to the smart kids. If I were to rig up a sprite sheet I would probably animate in photoshop on a zoomed 40x40 canvas or find a free pixel animator and vectorize the frames in illustrator using live trace - but where to go after that is a complete mystery to me.

From everything I've gathered svg's are animated using scripts. There are some flash to svg converters out there, but they seem to have a lot of kinks in them. I've never worked with them before, but Inkscape does seem to win the google prize.

So that's a pretty shoddy answer. If I were to go hunting for a better answer I would try the forums at newgrounds.

I just draw stuff :e2shrug:
 

Tezzirax

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 31, 2012
Messages
375
Reaction score
61
Location
Southern California
Love your sketchbook. I think that gives us all a good impression of the amount of work and dedication it takes to be an artist...let alone an employed animator.

People say things like "oh I could never do that" or "that takes talent I don't have" when they watch me draw- I tell them its just practice and more practice and not telling yourself that you can't.

I am taking the same approach to writing.
 

Rhubix

New kid, critique harshly!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 10, 2010
Messages
388
Reaction score
71
Location
Toronto via Newfoundland
Love your sketchbook. I think that gives us all a good impression of the amount of work and dedication it takes to be an artist...let alone an employed animator.

People say things like "oh I could never do that" or "that takes talent I don't have" when they watch me draw- I tell them its just practice and more practice and not telling yourself that you can't.

I am taking the same approach to writing.

Thanks Tezzirax :D
I think I'm more addicted than dedicated. I don't know what to do with myself when I'm not drawing.

Personally, I detest the word talent. It's misleading, and discouraging to people.
I know anyone can learn to draw - because I did. Like I said above, I'm not a natural. I was only accepted into animation school because the head of the program read my application letter and thought I seemed stubborn enough to get through. Seems she was right.

I keep telling myself the same approach will work for my writing- I suppose time will tell ^_^
 
Status
Not open for further replies.