Is there absolute quality?

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Maze Runner

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In writing, in fiction, non-fiction, in music, in films, etc.? Is there absolute good and bad? We say that taste is subjective. One man's poison, kind of thing, and yet a large % of people seem to agree on certain absolutes. What's your take on it? If you believe that there are certain qualities that make some writing superior to other writing, can you list some? Really like to have a better take on this. Thanks.
 

Torgo

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No. There are many different qualities, and the judging of them is subjective and often inter-subjective; but not objective.
 

NeuroFizz

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I really like fresh asparagus. Not everyone does. Listing the qualities of asparagus excellence will meet with much discussion and disagreement.
 
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Maze Runner

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I really like fresh asparagas. Not everyone does. Listing the qualities of asparagas excellence will meet with much discussion and disagreement.

I sear my fresh asparagus in just a little virgin olive oil, just a minute of two on both sides, seasoned with salt, pepper and garlic powder, spritzed at the end with fresh lemon. Now you may prefer your own method of preparing asparagus, but we might agree that the asparagus is one rockin' fresh vegetable. See I guess I think there are absolute qualities of excellence, but after that, then it is a matter of taste. For example, I may like to listen to Miles Davis, the earlier stuff, whereas you might prefer The Moody Blues, but I think they're both great at what they do. After that, for me is when it becomes subjective.
 

sunandshadow

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No absolute quality, any more than there is absolute beauty. Humans are the only judges, and we all have different taste and preferred "types".
 

Torgo

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Asparagus is delicious as a food, but it kind of sucks as loft insulation. (You know what I've been eating? Samphire. It's gorgeous. Sorry, carry on.)
 

Maze Runner

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Asparagus is delicious as a food, but it kind of sucks as loft insulation. (You know what I've been eating? Samphire. It's gorgeous. Sorry, carry on.)

Try some cauliflower to keep your loft at room temp- much more density.
 

Ton Lew Lepsnaci

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You asked for absolute quality, as in "indisputable" quality I assume. That's not the same as "a large percentage of people agree". What is a large percentage?
 

Maze Runner

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You asked for absolute quality, as in "indisputable" quality I assume. That's not the same as "a large percentage of people agree". What is a large percentage?

Good point. "Absolute" was a bad choice. Guess, I just mean, if there is no such thing as "quality" writing, art for that matter, if it is all just a matter of taste, then what are they teaching in Fine Arts schools these days? And why are certain artists, again whatever kind of artists, held up as exemplary, as better than most at what they do? Don't you agree that this is true? That we hold some writers up to be genius and relegate others to hack status?
 

Rhoda Nightingale

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Every "master" of the arts--any of the arts--has at least one critic (probably more than one) who will insist that artist is rubbish and woefully overrated. Many others will disagree, but the entire thing is still subjective.

For the record, cauliflower freaks me out. Looks like brains. Or broccoli that's having an off day.
 

Maze Runner

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Every "master" of the arts--any of the arts--has at least one critic (probably more than one) who will insist that artist is rubbish and woefully overrated. Many others will disagree, but the entire thing is still subjective.

For the record, cauliflower freaks me out. Looks like brains. Or broccoli that's having an off day.

I agree with your points. BOTH points, actually. Cannot get past the looks of cauliflower- that is one ugly vegetable- bless its soul.

But let me ask it this way. Aren't there artists for you, whom you respect for their creativity, or for how they advanced the art, or for there vision or proficiency, or whatever, but they just don't do it for you? If so, then you might agree that you based your judgement on specific attributes or lack thereof. For instance, I know Frank Zappa was a innovative musician. But he is not someone I've spent much time listening to. Bought a few of his albums and most of it was noisy to me. That doesn't mean I couldn't appreciate what he was doing; and in fairness, the stuff I did like I loved.

Haven't you ever had that feeling about a writer or a musician? That you respected what they were doing, but it just wasn't for you? And if so, wouldn't that tell you that you were basing your opinion on something other than what you personally enjoyed?
 

Ton Lew Lepsnaci

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And why are certain artists, again whatever kind of artists, held up as exemplary, as better than most at what they do? Don't you agree that this is true? That we hold some writers up to be genius and relegate others to hack status?

I'm afraid I can't answer that question without writing a tome on it. And I only have direct experience of genius in my own field, which differs from art.
 

Maze Runner

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Maze Runner

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I'm afraid I can't answer that question without writing a tome on it. And I only have direct experience of genius in my own field, which differs from art.

Fair enough. It's not like I really know what the hell I'm talkin' about.
 

Ton Lew Lepsnaci

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There are many types of personalities. People with those personalities may admire different qualities, which leads to a host of different yardsticks: unity, complexity, intensity, brio, wit, irony, sincerity, and I guess Anaheim chiles :)
 

Rhoda Nightingale

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Haven't you ever had that feeling about a writer or a musician? That you respected what they were doing, but it just wasn't for you? And if so, wouldn't that tell you that you were basing your opinion on something other than what you personally enjoyed?
I have had that feeling--yes. Numerous times. But just as often, I've found a work that others hold up as something of "quality" and I think, "Really? I mean . . . really? Are you kidding me?" I reckon we've all been there once or twice.

I don't think it's something you can quantify absolutely.

But then again, I have to admit there's merit in asking this question. Just as there are healthful nutrients in cauliflower, even though when I'm looking at it all I can think is, "Brains. Braaaaaiiiinsss!" (And yes, I say it in my zombie voice.)
 

Maze Runner

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I really dig the zombie voice. But you know, that's just me.
 

Rhoda Nightingale

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I've been practicing. Halloween's only two months away, after all.
 
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