Historic Firearms

Goblynmarket said:

An Heirloom pistol plays a role in my current WIP. What I am looking for is either a historic weapon that fits my criterion or more likely something that would work as a basis for some creative liberty.

It needs to be a revolver, metal cartridge (so no cap and ball) largish caliber, and exiat around the 1860's.

The closest I found is an S & W, model 2 I think, it has a .44 version later in its production run. I am having trouble getting a date for its production, but I have a feeling it isn't until later in the century.

If anyone knows of a candidate weapon, or knows of any type of small batch or custom gunsmiths that could have made it, I'd appreciate the advice.

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It's been a long time since I read about this but I think the first metal cartridge revolver was the colt peacemaker and that didn't come out til 1873 IIRC. I think a few years before that there were conversion kits to switch a cap and ball to a cartridge revolver.

If you are planning on someone loading modern ammo, the powder is different now and the alloys are different and your antique weapon would have a significant chance of exploding.

I am not an expert, but it is easy to search such things: "The first commercially successful all-metal cartridges were rimfire cartridges. The first of these was the .22 BB Cap, introduced around 1845。“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartridge_%28firearms%29#Metal_cartridges
If someone had one would be something to brag about and show off.

If you want to use a S&W model 2, then look at this page http://www.millbrook.ruraltel.net/smith2/smith2.htm
It appears that the model 2 was introduced in 1857.

S&W had the American patent on metal cartridges until 1869, IIRC. A lot of cap and ball pistols were converted after the patent expired.

If it doesn't have to be American, you could have a pinfire pistol. In those the cartridge had a projecting pin that rested on the primer. The French Lefaucheux was a prime example, designed 1858 (again IIRC), and used by a lot of European armies. There were lots of Belgian knock-offs, often cheap, sometimes with lots of engraving. There were varieties of pinfire with 7, 8, or even 20 cylinders as well as knuckle-duster pinfires with little blades. Some of the more conventional types would have turned up in the Civil War as officers got sidearms from any source they could.

The S&W No 3 dated from 1870. It was .44 cal, top-break, six-shot. There were Russian & Turkish models for export to foreign armies, as well as the American for the domestic market.

The No 2 dates to the 1860s or late '50s, but I thought it was lower caliber. If you've got data that they made it in .44, you're probably OK.

EDIT: Just remembered! The Webley Royal Irish Constabulary model came out in 1868/69. It was a .450 cal, metal-cartridge six-shooter. The Webley RIC was the basis for "British Bulldog" knock-offs as well as the later Webely models employed by British forces down to the 1950s.

Sat Nam! (Literally "Truth Name"--a Sikh greeting)

Typing for my husband, who knows about such things:

The model you are referring to is most likely S & W #3 First Model Single Action (most commonly known as First Model American). Manufactured between 1870 and 1872. About 8K made. It's a 6 shot revolver and the caliber was most often the 44 S & W American. It was rarely produced in 44 rimfire Henry. This information is from Flayerman's Guide to Antique American Firearms....and their values.

Information from the same reference: You might look at some of the Colt conversions of cap and ball revolvers to cartridge revolvers. The Thuer Conversion, which was in several calibers including 44, was done between 1869 and 1872. The other Colt conversions appear to be slightly later.

You may love this: Volcanic Lever Action Pistols, this firearm has strong associations with both S & W and Winchester. The mechanism was patented in the 1850s. It is a repeating pistol, but not a revolver, that was originally in .41 rimfire caliber. These pistols were produced by the New Haven Arms Company (the predecessor to Winchester) from 1857 to 1860. Please do some research so you can understand how the loading mechanism works, because it's not like a revolver or a semi-automatic. It's the same loading system used on the Henry repeating rifle of 1861. It's an intriguing loading system; the loading rounds are contained in a magazine tube attached beneath the barrel.

It's difficult to find large-bore cartiridge revolvers from the 1860s.

Blessings,

Jim Waldon via Siri Kirpal

Goblynmarket said:

I don't really want to use the S&W it was jut the first I found that seemed to fit. Something less common suits the character that originally owned it.

That said the WRIC looks like a possibility. The wiki mentions '.500 Tranter caliber' I'd never even heard of Tranter. A quick look into the rounds didn't reveal more than that they existed,and that they were rimfire. Does anyone know know more?

I did find some info about the actual Tranter pistols though. They look neat, the double trigger is interesting, but they seem to be cap and ball. Does anyone know about how these in particular took a conversion to cartridge, or how well the conversion tended to work in general?

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If you google it, then you will find a lot about the Tranter. I have heard of them, but I don't remmember why. Tranters and Webleys were common in the British military.

The S&W model 2 would be excellent, and the charqacter's ancestor could have taken it to the Civil War.

I think that the first one would be very interesting, if there are still examples of it.

Goblynmarket said:

The volcanic is a fascinating weapon, but I foresee my MC blowing up when they decided making rocket balls was a good idea.

The original owner would have been in Europe during most of the Civil War so I think the Webley is going to be my choice.

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Yes, the Webley would make sense, unless the person is a collector. Then the .22 rimfire would be the one.

[/QUOTE]Now for a bit of hands on advice. The .500 Tranter round is a 350 grn bullet over 24 grns of powder giving a muzzle velocity of 650 fps. This work out to roughly 4.82 newtons. Anyone know a of comparable modern weapon that would have a similar recoil?
[/QUOTE]

That's in the range of muzzle energy of a .357 magnum or maybe a slightly smaller round. .
http://www.ballistics101.com/357_magnum.php