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cyberwraith
01-12-2006, 09:19 PM
A psych prof I once had affirmed that you absolutely can't tell if a person is trustworthy or not just from their face.

Here's a game to test that theory:

http://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/killerquiz/


I got 8/10!

Jamesaritchie
01-12-2006, 10:13 PM
A psych prof I once had affirmed that you absolutely can't tell if a person is trustworthy or not just from their face.

Here's a game to test that theory:

http://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/killerquiz/


I got 8/10!

Fun test, but didn't work for me. I recognized all the serial killers. Not sure what that says about me? Guess I need to stop writing so many mystery novels.

Shadow_Ferret
01-12-2006, 10:40 PM
I got 6 out of 10. Damn those programmers are a scary looking lot!

katiemac
01-13-2006, 12:34 AM
I think the actual photographs give away the test. The programmers appear in more "real-life" pictures, and the serial killers look more like they're caught of cameras or newspaper clippings. :Shrug:

Still, I didn't get them all. Good test (if not a little creepy...)

StoryG27
01-13-2006, 12:41 AM
I got 9/10. Apparently that's pretty good. Some of those pics, just one look at the eyes and my heart pounded harder. Anyway, it was a fun little test.

dantem42
01-13-2006, 07:25 AM
I got 9/10. Apparently that's pretty good. Some of those pics, just one look at the eyes and my heart pounded harder. Anyway, it was a fun little test.

Also 9/10, though three were "gimme's" for me, as I did months of research on psychopaths for my novel.

But in general, you won't be able to spot a psychopathic killer from his mode of eye contact, facial behavior, or gestures. They're generally astoundingly good at covering up who they are. One reason is that they are superb at rationalizing their behavior, to the point that lies can become truths inside their heads. As a criminal group, they are the most successful at passing polygraph exams.

cyberwraith
01-13-2006, 08:05 PM
As a criminal group, they are the most successful at passing polygraph exams.

Interesting. Is this because, as you seem to say, they recreate reality in their minds so there is no emotional response to untruth because to them lies ARE the truth? If so, that's a crazy level of control!

Delighted so many folks enjoyed the game!

Good Word
01-14-2006, 06:10 AM
I got 6 out of 10. Damn those programmers are a scary looking lot!

They're often kinda smelly, too.

Vanessa
01-14-2006, 06:18 AM
I got 8/10. Fun game!

dantem42
01-14-2006, 06:52 AM
Interesting. Is this because, as you seem to say, they recreate reality in their minds so there is no emotional response to untruth because to them lies ARE the truth? If so, that's a crazy level of control!

Delighted so many folks enjoyed the game!

Psychopaths can go to enormous lengths to shield themselves from the ugly truth of their actions, because they are profoundly narcissistic and they guard their own take on their self-image zealously.

This is not to say that the serial psychopath will be unaware of his murders, he's not delusional (like say a drooling psychotic might be). But for example he may so far convince himself that it was the victim's fault (she should not have been hitchiking) that after a while he will have no sense of responsibility for the death. Inside his head, the response to the question "did you kill her?" may eventually be "no, she killed herself."

This tendency also shows up in serial rapists (she shouldn't have been showing her cleavage like that) or serial pedophiles (the kid obviously seduced me). Some psychopaths are masters at structuring scenarios that allow them to evade any sense of guilt or remorse for their actions. Others are simply incapable of feeling these emotions, and don't even have to bother to construct rationalizations.

cyberwraith
01-14-2006, 07:23 PM
Thank you DanteM42! That is a very useful and complete explanation. It very much helps with a character I'm creating. http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif

Rambling
01-19-2006, 04:10 PM
Interesting. Is this because, as you seem to say, they recreate reality in their minds so there is no emotional response to untruth because to them lies ARE the truth? If so, that's a crazy level of control!


Not really - polygraphs really aren't that discriminating. The value of it is highly dependent on how good the examiner is. They regularly false positive nervous innocent people and false negative calm guilty people. Interestingly, they false positive anyone who is 100% honest*. Their best and most common use is as an interrogation device - they make people nervous enough to blurt out secrets.


*The procedure requires you to lie under stress to get a base comparison - typically they ask something meaning 'people who drink and drive are the type of people who commit <whatever>, and we really don't like them. Have you ever driven under the influence of alcohol?' They assume you have driven while over the limit, and will lie about it here.

kdnxdr
01-20-2006, 06:11 PM
Case in point, my abusive ex-husband, sexually molested our two daughters. He was given a polygragh 3 different ways. The investigating officer told me that he knew the reputation of the administrator of the test and believed in the integrity of his testing. My ex passed 3 times with no problem whatsoever. Hoever, I have two traumatized daughters who have lives that have been horrifically impacted by the molestations. He, unknown to me in the past, is in fact, a registered child sex offender for what he perpetrated on a sister's 3 year old child in the past.

It's hard to get justice when you have a habitual liar that has so perfected lying and has no sense of wrong doing. What scares me is that I think our society has gotten to the point that right/wrong is always relative.

A man that is being tried in Germany at this time was in the news for his crime of assisting a man to die. The perpetrator first removed the man's genitals, while the man was alive. Then proceed to try to eat them, while the man watched. Then the victim passed out from loss of blood. The perpetrator commenced to slicing and dicing, plastic wrapping and freezing the parts. The perpetrator then, over a course of months, feasted. Occasionally, he ground up some of the victim, made meatballs, and shared them with his collegues at work.

What was incredible to me was the look of the perpetrator's face in court as he smiled, joked and casually went into the trial. His lawyer's are arguing that the perpetrator was in fact solicited as an assistant to suicide and that it was pre-agreed as to the cannabalism. Maybe the dude is a Lector wannabe.

Sometimes, horror isn't what we see but rather what we allow.

dantem42
01-21-2006, 06:16 AM
Case in point, my abusive ex-husband, sexually molested our two daughters. He was given a polygragh 3 different ways. The investigating officer told me that he knew the reputation of the administrator of the test and believed in the integrity of his testing. My ex passed 3 times with no problem whatsoever.

This was my whole point when I first made the statement. It sounds like your ex exhibits many of the personality abnormalities of the psychopath, thus his aplomb in the face of a polygraph. Psychopaths often even have lower heart rates than normal people, and are often fully capable of convincing police and juries of their innocence unless the evidence is overwhelming.

But an interrogator trained in dealing with them can very slowly unravel the network of lies. Once they start to trip up, where their stories can slowly be disproven point by point (and this may take days of interrogation), the facade of sang froid can start to crack, especially if they have to start lying "on the fly." But most police detectives aren't trained to do this, and some have a tendency to take the psychopath at face value.

kdnxdr
01-21-2006, 06:05 PM
I would just like to say from the personal experience of living with such a person for 16 years, don't stay.

These people are very adept at manipulating. Often, those around them sense or catch their lies. They are masterful at twisting the perception to get you doubting what you've perceived. If you have any compassion, politeness, unsureness, kindness of any kind they will exploit that to the upteenth and prgressively, you will loose your ability to pull out of the psychology of the relationship.

For all the women I know, including myself, what keeps you involved is a state of disbelief and confustion. You become stuck trying to figure out what is really going on and why is it happening. That IS the trap. It become like some sort of puzzle that you feel compelled to figure out for whatever reason, you become addicted to trying to resolve something that is unresolvable.

I thank God, I have been out of that kind of relationship now for 10 years!

It is definately a type of character to explore but I would caution anyone who wants to "research" by experience, don't, these people use are this way 24/7 and their sole purpose in life is to find their next victim on any level.

One more thing, I saw my ex use this same psychology with men/women/children/pastors/police/courts/his family/employers, no one was exempt.

dantem42
01-22-2006, 08:17 AM
One more thing, I saw my ex use this same psychology with men/women/children/pastors/police/courts/his family/employers, no one was exempt.

One researcher said that the psychopath creates a "chain of chaos" around him, damaging and destroying all people in his circle, even those he doesn't actually "target." It should also be understood that not all psychopaths engage in heinous crimes like molestation, rape and murder. Many simply exult in turning every aspect of their relationships with others to their perceived benefit, which is the result of a deep-seated narcissism. Everything centers around them, and everything is subordinate to their desires.

They are very adept at making surface displays of "positive" emotion. A guy might plaster his cubicle with pics of his kids, prattle on about them to anyone who will listen, but he would probably "accidentally" trip and sprain his ankle on the way into a burning building to save them, because his own sense of self-preservation dwarfs anything he may feel toward them. He may never miss the wedding anniversary flowers, but cheat on his wife all over the place.

And yes, let's hope no one out there's stupid enough to hang out with psychopaths in order to write about them. Most people end up knowing one or two just as a matter of course (family, work, church etc.), and if you study up on their characteristics you can figure out who they are without bothering to find new ones.

twisterpal
03-18-2006, 01:56 AM
I got 9 out of 10. But I'm experienced.

Sentia
04-09-2006, 07:52 AM
I got 9 out of 10. But I'm experienced.

Experienced as what? A programmer, or a serial killer? http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif

Jamesaritchie
04-09-2006, 04:53 PM
There are some new "Lie detectors" now on the verge of being officially used that are supposed to be unbeatable. Time will tell, but they're so good in trials that I'm not completely sure I want them to be used.

dantem42
04-11-2006, 06:45 AM
There are some new "Lie detectors" now on the verge of being officially used that are supposed to be unbeatable. Time will tell, but they're so good in trials that I'm not completely sure I want them to be used.

Hmm. As long as there is strict accountability on their use, the questions asked and so on, I would not have a problem with them (and if they are misused, then the evidence can be ruled inadmissable etc.). Fifteen years ago defense attorneys squawked that all this newfangled DNA stuff just wasn't sporting.

Anya Smith
04-11-2006, 07:03 AM
A psych prof I once had affirmed that you absolutely can't tell if a person is trustworthy or not just from their face.

Here's a game to test that theory:

http://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/killerquiz/


I got 8/10!

Interesting test--I got a 7/10

RobCurtis
04-11-2006, 12:43 PM
A psych prof I once had affirmed that you absolutely can't tell if a person is trustworthy or not just from their face.
Here's a game to test that theory:
http://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/killerquiz/
I got 8/10!
Excellent link. 9/10 for me :)

Chickenchargrill
04-11-2006, 12:59 PM
What about if someone's a computer programmer during the day but murders people at night? You can't trust computer geeks, I know too many of them. They're all wierd ;)

Oh yeah, I got 10/10.

RobCurtis
04-11-2006, 03:10 PM
What about if someone's a computer programmer during the day but murders people at night? You can't trust computer geeks, I know too many of them. They're all wierd ;)

It's all that time in front of a screen - they start to think that what they see in there is real. Not that I'd know.:Shrug:

Forbidden Snowflake
04-11-2006, 03:20 PM
I got 9 out of 10, but then again that was easy!

Jamesaritchie
04-12-2006, 10:10 AM
Hmm. As long as there is strict accountability on their use, the questions asked and so on, I would not have a problem with them (and if they are misused, then the evidence can be ruled inadmissable etc.). Fifteen years ago defense attorneys squawked that all this newfangled DNA stuff just wasn't sporting.



I'm not worried about them being misused in court where rules of evidence apply. I'm worried about them being used in the workplace to screen prospective employees, or for purposes of health insurance, life insurance, car insurane, home insurance, etc. Polygraphs aren't used many places now because it takes intense training to use them, they're too expensive and time consuming, and they aren't considered reliable enough.

Any type of accurate and easily used "lie detector" would alter life in many, many areas if the technology got into the private sector, and it always seems to do just that.

Branwyn
04-12-2006, 08:20 PM
Chinese Face reading.

Face reading is one of the oldest divination techniques. Looking at the face you can determine such things as significant events in oneís life and gain insight a personís nature. Face Reading is not so prevalent in the West, but in Asia, it is quite popular. It is a fun and fascinating study that can be used to aid you in finding out more about those around you!