The scientific rationale for vampires!

Number two in particular sounds like you're scrabbling to justify one of the less realistic traits of vampires. Why not simply say that they're nocturnal? Very little you can come up with is going to scientifically justify spontaneous combustion on exposure to sunlight, so sidestep it altogether.

Personally, being a huge vampire fan myself, think the whole garlic thing is stupid. I didn't laugh. I just rolled my eyes. It doesn't really make any sense. Why are the anti-fungal properties dangerous to vampires? Because they suffer from a fungal parasitic infection and the garlic tries to cure the infection thus killing them? Sounds silly that something as simple as garlic could take down a vampire. But the vampires I'm used to are usually not weaklings.

My eyes glazed over on the second point. It also doesn't make any sense. If I read a book that tried to explain that it would also cue another eye roll. I see why people like their vampires to be trapped underground, and I tolerate it for the sake of watching a good movie or reading a good book. But trying to actually explain it feels like your forcing your science on them, much like Roman Catholicism forces their religious superstitions on them.

The last one is slightly interesting though. No eye roll. A wee bit of snickering on the craving iron part, but I always think it's funny when people say vampires drink blood for the iron, especially since from a scientific standpoint, not everyone's blood is high in iron. If that's the case, it seems to me that they would crave spinach and beef more than blood.

All of this makes me think of I AM Legend and that is not a good thing.

It looks like you've connected things pretty well though, everything is built upon the infection. It sounds like your vampires are kind of weak and pasty. That's fine if that's what you want, but it cues another eye roll. If they're not weak, I find it hard to believe concentrated garlic could kill them, but maybe I'm underestimating your parasitic infection.

None of this really explains why you're calling them vampires though. Again, with I AM Legend, I was surprised when I found out those things were supposed to be vampires. They seemed more like zombies to me. What about this infection makes them a vampire? Do they go out and attack people at night? Does the infection make their teeth extra sharp? Do they only attack people who are bleeding? Attack people with a knife to cut them first so they can drink their blood? Or are they called vampires simply because they buy bags of butcher shop blood to drink. And maybe spinach juice. ^_^ (couldn't resist)

If you had called them something else, this whole scientific thing would be a lot more interesting.

I didn't mean to go on so long. I just really like my vampires. ^_^

I enjoyed all three as fictional propositions.

The thing that bugs me about vampires is their numerical impossibility. This is based on my reading of Dracula. I haven't read other vampire books, but I've seen a bunch of movies.

If vampire's victims become vampires themselves, it begs the question: how often does a vampire need a drink? Two victims a week would result in two more vampires a week, each of which needs two drinks a week, resulting in ...

At that rate, vampires would run out of victims in less than a year as their population doubles every week.

I'm guessing that the foundation for vampire and werewolve mythology is rabies. You might look at that disease for your pathology.

They're "slightly" photosynthetic?! Plant cells =/ animal cells.

Also, a fungus? You'd think someone would've randomly been taking some anti-fungal and determined that fixed it at some point. Or learned to spray vampires with some foot spray or some such.

Also, they crave iron thus they attack people and suck their blood? Couldn't they just have some kale or something? Also also then you'd have people attacking certain people and... yeah this is kind of not working for me, heh.

Maxinquaye said:

Yeah, I don't want my vampires to be strong. The typical superman vampire would take over in no time. He's already dead, so you can't kill him. He has superpowers and can move fast. No, my vampires need limitations that a) keep them on the fringes and b) require the aid of a Renfield. My vampires are more like human leeches than anything. Certainly no romantic dark heroes here. No Edward to swoon over a Bella. Although one does say "I can't live without you" before that vampire is killed. They pull their victims down into a dark cavern and eat.

Mind controlling fungii already exist in nature, so that's nothing new. I just need to figure out an elegant way to make it persistent, and elegant, and to limit the expectation of people about these vampires, and to limit their operations so that they're dependent on a Renfield. ^^

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Well yeah, remember that time Mulder and Scully were spored by the giant mushroom and they hallucinated all that stuff and the Lone Gunmen were there and stuff, but they were actually in the cavern all mushroomy? We all know that!

Really, what happened to good old fashioned symbolism?

This is right on the line of fiction/science, but I'm going to let it stay as long as the discussion stays focused on the science of what you're suggesting.

I must be in the minority because I think it's interesting! The last one makes the most sense to me. Have you read up on historical "vampires" and why people thought they were vampires? That might help ground your science in a little bit more reality. The mind-control fungus scares the ever-loving hell out of me. I know it only happens in bugs, but it's still scary. Especially when I think that bread mold can kill. I wouldn't say "iron-carving" though because there isn't much iron in blood. It could cause something like pica.

I read a very interesting article once a long time ago that classified the vampire disease as a virus that operates like AIDS. Transmitted through the blood, it is a retrovirus that reprograms the DNA and allows the body to produce enzymes that will allow for the digestion of blood. The retrovirus route is one way to go. I have no expertise in this, but that article stuck in my head.

Fungi don't photosynthesise.

Zombie ants? Seriously?

Al Stevens said:

At that rate, vampires would run out of victims in less than a year as their population doubles every week.

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That's the premise of an Aussie vampire flick - Daybreakers.

Basically - if vampires can only feed off humans and they can convert humans to vampires by careless feeding (by infecting them) then fundamentally humans become an endangered species ... but a very valuable one.

If you are human and the massive vampire population is facing starvation then you are one of the most valuable things on the planet ...

Mac

If I remember correctly, part of the vampire folklore comes from not embalming the bodies. The hair and nails would continue to grow for a while, and the corpse would bloat, making it look "fuller"; futher decomposition would result in a vampiric look.

The graphic novel Blade (and subsequent movies) treated vampirism as an infection that could be eliminated (dead vampires) with anticoagulants. As a veteran ER nurse, I could relate to the science behind the theory...blood won't clot, you bleed to death, easy peazy. Although I never did have a patient explode. Hmm...

I like your concept of weak, dependent vampires; it's a new twist. And I'm sorry, but I hated Twilight. Sparkly vampires? Really?

Sorry...didn't mean to drone on so. I would suggest keeping the weakness and losing the fungus...IMHO.

So, they don't have superpowers and they are a symbiosis of a fungus and human who crave blood. Call them leeches.

Being photosynthetic would make them like sunlight, so no on that part, but direct full sunlight is dangerous to many funguses, so I don't have a problem with the fungus.

Capsacin is a more potent natural antifungal than allixin and pepper spray is widely available.

#1 - Allixin, is a microbial inhibitor, present in high concentration in garlic, and it is Allixin that makes vampires abhore garlic. In particular its effect on fungal cells make allixin dangerous to vampires.

At the cell level, you might want to consider hydrogen peroxide as being something dangerous to vampires.

#2 - The body chemistry of vampires are slighty photosynthetic, and this is why vampires are sensitive to sunlight. The fungal parasitic infection turns low-light into energy that sustains the vampire. The cellular structure of the parasitic infection (see below) that make vampires is evolved for low-light conditions, dark underground caves, etc, and exposure to direct sunlight can overload cells.

Vampires are photosynthetic and have a fungal parasitic infection? If that's meant to work together, it doesn't, because funghi don't require light.

#3 - Vampires suffer from a parasitic infection that is spread throughout the human body. Much like in the case of the “zombie ants”, a particular fungus can invade a human body and alter the body chemistry and induce a high-iron craving that is best satisfied by ingesting the blood of mammals.
A high iron craving - wouldn't you just substitute rusting metal? Sorry to be so unimaginative.
As you see I'm trying for a more scientific rational for the existence of vampires, rather than a metaphysical one. If these statements I made make you laugh out loud because of their innate silliness, could you please say why so that I may think of alternatives?

There are mind-altering funghi, but not mind-controlling. You would have to use a mind-altering funghi to suggest something to someone in order to control them, I think.

Someone earlier mentioned rabies. I think this might be a good angle for you to explore. Or ticks (as in the blood-sucking ones) - their bites can kill.

taichiquan.panda said:

If I remember correctly, part of the vampire folklore comes from not embalming the bodies. The hair and nails would continue to grow for a while,

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Hair and nails don't grow after death. The skin shrinks, giving the appearance of growth.

How about silver? It's been used as an antiseptic for hundreds of years, and more importantly, silver weapons are cool.

Garlic's explanation is iffy. Perhaps you could say that something very specific to this fungus reacts with garlic, or explore it from another angle, like saying its smell overwhelms the vampire's senses.

taichiquan.panda said:

If I remember correctly, part of the vampire folklore comes from not embalming the bodies. The hair and nails would continue to grow for a while, and the corpse would bloat, making it look "fuller"; futher decomposition would result in a vampiric look.

The graphic novel Blade (and subsequent movies) treated vampirism as an infection that could be eliminated (dead vampires) with anticoagulants. As a veteran ER nurse, I could relate to the science behind the theory...blood won't clot, you bleed to death, easy peazy. Although I never did have a patient explode. Hmm...

I like your concept of weak, dependent vampires; it's a new twist. And I'm sorry, but I hated Twilight. Sparkly vampires? Really?

Sorry...didn't mean to drone on so. I would suggest keeping the weakness and losing the fungus...IMHO.

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This is a myth. The skin retracts, making them seem longer.

I recall reading a book with a similar premise to this one some time ago:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0300048599/?tag=absowrit-21

(I'm not sure if it was actually this one or not, but close enough).

Anyway, it's worth understanding the folkloric origins of the myths to know which features are "essential" and which are additions by later writers - for instance, the whole "bitten by a vampire turns you into a vampire", which is not a mandatory part of the standard mythos.

Cath is right. Vampirism was invented as a symbol for people who suck the life from others.

On the other hand, a little wiork with the fungus would work better than most other explanations of vampirism. There are fungi that are harmed by sunlight; although those are mostly skin fungi, and allican is a stron anti-fungal, in addition to being a powerful anti-biotic. Having the fungus react to produce pain when exposed to those factors makes sense.

Snick said:

Cath is right. Vampirism has been used as a symbol for people who suck the life from others.

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I think that's more accurate. There are ancient mythologies about vampires, stemming from such various things as fear of death, disease, covering up infanticide, and many other things.

Vampires are a fantastic metaphor - and remain powerful in that sense - but I would avoid conflating the folkloric origin of the myths with our modern usage of those myths.

Al Stevens said:

I enjoyed all three as fictional propositions.

The thing that bugs me about vampires is their numerical impossibility. This is based on my reading of Dracula. I haven't read other vampire books, but I've seen a bunch of movies.

If vampire's victims become vampires themselves, it begs the question: how often does a vampire need a drink? Two victims a week would result in two more vampires a week, each of which needs two drinks a week, resulting in ...

At that rate, vampires would run out of victims in less than a year as their population doubles every week.

I'm guessing that the foundation for vampire and werewolve mythology is rabies. You might look at that disease for your pathology.

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As someone already mentioned, Daybreakers dealt with the numbers issue. Also, True Blood deals with it by saying that a vampire bite isn't enough to make you a vampire - a ritual is required.

As for the rabies idea, that's plausible for werewolves, but it's been said that the foundation for vampirism might be a form of porphyria. From what I understand, it doesn't really hold up when you get into the science of it, but it's closer than rabies. For a fiction author's purposes, it might be close enough...

onesecondglance said:

I think that's more accurate. There are ancient mythologies about vampires, stemming from such various things as fear of death, disease, covering up infanticide, and many other things.

Vampires are a fantastic metaphor - and remain powerful in that sense - but I would avoid conflating the folkloric origin of the myths with our modern usage of those myths.

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The ancient stories used that metaphor for its implication of the life being sucked from people. That metaphor has also been used recently, and those stories have been better than other vampire stories.