Are People Hiring Copy Editors for Kindle Titles? [moved from e-pub]

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Bookmama

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I was trying to find out what percent (approximately) of digital publishers/writers are hiring copy editors to review/edit their manuscripts before publishing on Kindle (or other digital platforms).

For anyone who hired a copy editor and wants to recommend them, I'd love to get contact info -- either in this thread or via private message.

Thanks in advance.
 

WildScribe

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From what I've seen, the majority of them are not, and it shows. If you'd like to PM me I can give you my credentials - I'm a copy editor. :)
 

thothguard51

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Smart self publishers will hire an editor and a copy editor. But that does not guarantee the book will make back the cost...

If I go SP, I will hire both, and a professional designer. If I go this route, its not going to be about earning back but about making sure my work is the best it can be...

If I go this route...
 

Bookmama

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Thanks Wildscribe. I did PM you.

Other folks, don't be shy to say, No, I didn't hire a copy editor or yes, I did and here is why.

Whether you hired a copy editor or not, if you have a title on Kindle, then you took action to pursue a goal -- pat yourself on the back!
 

Old Hack

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Bookmama, just checking: you do know the difference between an editor, a copy editor, and a proof reader, don't you?

I just wonder why you've asked specifically about copy editing, but not about the other sorts of editor.
 

Terie

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Shouldn't this be in the self-publishing forum? It's a generic question about self-publishing, not a question specific to e-publishing.

It also might get a better response there, since people who self-publish hang out in that forum.

Finally, Bookmama, you might want to show a bit of patience. Waiting less than two hours before asking for more replies is a bit....impatient.
 

Torgo

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To get a novel to the level of polish and correctness to which readers are accustomed, you'll need, as Old Hack says, an editor, a copyeditor, and a proofreader. Ideally these would be three different people.

If you're self-publishing and you are doing your copyedit yourself, expect to publish a book containing continuity errors and grammatical solecisms. (I've edited novels for the trade, but when I wrote one last year I discovered that there are Things I Don't Know About Grammar.)

(A lot of your 99p, £1.99 Kindle publishing is what I think of as neo-pulp - it's the equivalent of the cheaply-produced, lightly-edited, printed-on-crap magazines and paperbacks that used to make up a lot of genre publishing. I'm not knocking pulp - I rather love it, and there were many diamonds in the rough - but the production values were low to keep it cheap. Readers understood and forgave that; I think they generally do the same with a cheap Kindle novel that's riddled with mistakes, but you may find their charity starts to run out when you get closer to a trade price.)
 

Katallina

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This is an issue that I'm deeply torn about.

I'm certain my work could benefit from editing. But editing is a skill that does not come cheap, and considering what it entails that is very understandable. I didn't realize I was going to go this route when I started writing my book. If I had, and I had done my research then, I likely wouldn't be banging my head against my desk over this.

But my novel -- which needs another round of edits from *me* still -- is in the 130,000 word range and the average cost I'm seeing when I look stuff up on Google ranges from $2 - $4 a page (which for the sake of simplicity we'll assume would be 250-300 words). That adds up really quick.

On one hand, I've had people tell me not to beat myself up over it. It's not a question of whether I *care*, but rather whether I can *afford* this. On the other hand, I feel like I have invested in everything to do with this project but the thing that should matter the absolute most: making sure that what I am presenting to the world is the absolute best that it can be. Editing cannot make something that is crap become amazing. But I strongly believe that another set of eyes (or more; as has been pointed out there are different types of editing) can take something that is already "good" and make it, if not great, then at least "better".

I'm not worried about selling a million copies. I know with or without editing that some people will like what I write and some people will despise what I write. But I also know that I have a great story idea and that my characters deserve every advantage I can give them. I feel like I am cheating them, in a sense.

Should you hire an editor? That's something you need to come to terms with for yourself, and if what I'm saying above is any indication, it's not an easy decision. My apologies for turning this around to an extent and making it about me, but I am still in the process of getting my book ready to be published and it seems I am questioning the same thing you are, in a way. I wish I could have been of more assistance.

Good luck! :)
 

Terie

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It's not a question of whether I *care*, but rather whether I can *afford* this.

Maybe the question needs to be 'If I can't afford this, should I do it at all?'

Self-publishing is a business. It's a business where the supplier/vendor also happens to be the business owner. But it's still a business, and to be successful, the business owner needs to make the necessary investments.

Would you hire a carpenter to rebuild your staircase if he couldn't afford to buy (or hire) the right tools for the job?

Would you open a checking account at a bank that set up a tent in the local park because they couldn't afford to rent floorspace?

Would you go to a restaurant that couldn't afford to have a proper dishwasher?

I just can't get my head around the idea that writers expect other people to pay their hard-earned money for a product that the business owner couldn't afford to present properly.

If you believe in your story so much, and if you can't afford to operate your own self-publishing business properly, why not focus on a commercial deal instead?

If you (this is the generic 'you', not directed at anyone specifically in this thread) can't produce a story that's good enough for a commercial publisher to pick up, and if you can't afford to pay for the expertise to bring it up to snuff before publishing it yourself, why in the world would you even think of self-publishing?

Self-publishing is a business, and it must be approached like a business to be successful. If one isn't in a position to run a self-publishing business, they shouldn't try.
 

Sheryl Nantus

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If all business is run the same, we've just written the obituary of Mr. Innovation.

I don't understand what you mean by this.

Every business needs investors - people who are willing to put money into the business to get it started.

If you're self-publishing you *are* the investor. You need to put money into decent cover art, editing and promotion in order to do everything that a trade publisher does to produce a high-quality product.

What do you mean by your comment?
 

Calle Jay

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I am a content editor, former graphic designer, and a self-publisher.

I have friends that I work with regularly that are line editors and proofreaders. When the time comes to get my work edited, I barter services.

I might do a cover for one person who line edits and do a content edit for another person who then proofreads for me.

This way we all benefit without going broke.

I do believe that quality books require editing. I've seen many, many good stories (doing acquisitions for a small press occasionally) that were nowhere near close to pub ready.

If you can't afford an editor, work something out in trade. There is nothing written that said self-publishing has to break the bank. I've paid for nothing with cash in the year or so I've been self-pubbing.
 

Austin Wimberly

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I'm self-publishing an eBook very soon, and I hired an editor. In my opinion, this is an absolutely essential step. And don't just hire any editor. Hire a good editor. You want someone with actual editing experience. You want someone who makes their living editing. Find that person, and hire them.

A good editor will be able to see your vision and will focus your story so that the vision within it becomes crystal clear. Yes, they cost money. So do good doctors and good mechanics.

I'm new to all of this, so my post is more anecdotal than hard evidence, but I firmly believe that the author/editor relationship is vital to the novel writing process. I'm working on my next novel now. When it passes the beta readers, I'm going back to my editor even if I have to skip a few meals to pay her.
 

Al Stevens

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I like the barter system, and you don't necessarily have to exchange only editorial services. My editor likes to throw parties. She has a piano player/standup comedian on call. I played music for her husband's funeral. Trade whatever service you can provide. Even editors have lawns to mow, cars to fix, plumbing that leaks, kids that need watching...
 

Calle Jay

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I like the barter system, and you don't necessarily have to exchange only editorial services. My editor likes to throw parties. She has a piano player/standup comedian on call. I played music for her husband's funeral. Trade whatever service you can provide. Even editors have lawns to mow, cars to fix, plumbing that leaks, kids that need watching...

Exactly. I love the barter system. I think too many people depend only on cash and forget that everyone has other skills that are worth something!
 

J. Tanner

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I've not hired an editor, and I don't think it's cost effective for short fiction. My stories went through my crit circle (all published writers) and through the magazine editor where they were originally published. (But 9 of 10 are virtually identical to my first polished draft so I wouldn't be too afraid to skip a magazine editor and direct self-pub.)

I have no personal experience, but I think that system would fall apart for novel length work. Biting the bullet and hiring someone seems to be the best option judging from what most of the reasonably successful self-pubbers are doing. (Or barter if the opportunity presents.)
 

BillJustBill

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Yeah, you need a copy editor

Reading a free Kindle novel, the third paragraph:


And the sickening noise of flesh being punctured and bone cracking. Screams followed within seconds; tormented, searing wails of agony that defiled reason; the sounds -- the inhuman sounds associated with the grizzly practice of crucifixion.

And the question: Does the bear at the crucifixion cause you not to notice that your reason has been defiled?

If you're going to self-publish, consider a copy editor.
 

writerjohnb

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I offer free-lance editing on a site called Elance because I feel I'm good enough at editing to a competent job. Why? Because I enjoy editing as much as I enjoy writing, and I feel I can help writers who can't afford a professional edit. My day job is remote monitoring of building control systems and I have a lot of "dead" time when I can write or edit. So I try to pick up work when I'm not working on a novel. It keeps me from being bored. I can pick up a little extra cash, which I then use to promote my novels.

Since I'm not a company, I have no overhead. I charge 1/2 cent per word and I feel my clients and I are both getting a deal at $500 for a 100,000 word novel. And every client has given my services a 5 star review.

Not every writer can afford a professional editor, just like I can't afford a professional to promote my work. But every author should do all they can afford to improve their work, whether they're going to self-publish or query. Poor grammar, spelling, punctuation will turn off an agent even more quickly than they'll turn off a reader who downloaded your Kindle novel.
 
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oldhousejunkie

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I didn't hire an editor because I just don't have that kind of money to invest. I was extraordinarily lucky to have beta readers with an editorial eye, so most of the kinks were worked out. I also did a lot of self-editing using the "find and replace" function in Microsoft Word.

But with that being said, my novel went live and a writer friend that I made recently came back and told me that there were numerous missing words also missed commas and hyphens. I was mortified! He very kindly did a full edit for me out of the goodness of his heart.

I have a feeling that he has an inordinately good eye and that most of the stuff he caught would have not been noticed by a regular reader. Nonetheless, I want my work to be as good as it can be. He has since decided to start offering editing services--his contact info is on my Facebook page.

At the very least, you should do a thorough self-edit and then farm it out to a beta reader for content and a beta reader for editing. Good luck!
 

Bookmama

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Bookmama, just checking: you do know the difference between an editor, a copy editor, and a proof reader, don't you?

I just wonder why you've asked specifically about copy editing, but not about the other sorts of editor.

I specified copy editor because my experience hiring people to do copy editing, was that they also considered themselves proof readers -- as in they would view the final proof if you wanted.

And yes, I do understand the idea of an editor focusing on story flow, plot structure, etc, versus copy editor focusing on punctuation, misused words (affect instead of effect), etc.

I singled out copy editor (but would also include proofreading) because I thought it was the step most self-publishers would be most likely to skip.

I did actually feel my post was more appropriate for e-publication, because I think self-publishers of printed books are less likely to skip copy editors for a variety of reasons. I was really interested in people publishing on Kindle and whether they hired a copy editor. That was and is my question.
 

oaktree

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And the question: Does the bear at the crucifixion cause you not to notice that your reason has been defiled?

There are very few things that have ever caused me to spit tea through my nose, but this was one of them.
 

Terie

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I did actually feel my post was more appropriate for e-publication, because I think self-publishers of printed books are less likely to skip copy editors for a variety of reasons. I was really interested in people publishing on Kindle and whether they hired a copy editor. That was and is my question.

E-publishing is a format. The forum for e-publishing is generally concerned with issues related uniquely to e-books, regardless of whether they're self-published or commercially published.

Editing is completely unrelated to the format of the book. Editing is also supplied by commercial e-book publishers, so authors of commercially published e-books don't hire editors at all. That's why your question about hiring editors is more appropriate to the self-publishing forum.
 

Kriven

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If you're self-publishing you *are* the investor. You need to put money into decent cover art, editing and promotion in order to do everything that a trade publisher does to produce a high-quality product.

No, you don't. Not if you're willing to *invest* the time to figure it out yourself.

If all businesses did the exact same thing, what a boring world it'd be.
 

J. Tanner

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I singled out copy editor (but would also include proofreading) because I thought it was the step most self-publishers would be most likely to skip.

From what I've seen, they're more likely to hire a copy editor or proofreader and skip developmental editing by a wide margin.

I did actually feel my post was more appropriate for e-publication, because I think self-publishers of printed books are less likely to skip copy editors for a variety of reasons. I was really interested in people publishing on Kindle and whether they hired a copy editor. That was and is my question.

Self-pub would be the correct forum for that. This forum isn't about self-pub printed books exclusively or even primarily. In fact, I'd guess the majority of the discussion is about self-pub ebooks.
 

Sheryl Nantus

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No, you don't. Not if you're willing to *invest* the time to figure it out yourself.

If all businesses did the exact same thing, what a boring world it'd be.

I'm still trying to figure out your first statement. Now you toss this one in.

Businesses NEED MONEY. You can have all the great ideas you want but you need to put money in to create the business and sustain it.

I don't know what you're talking about but it sounds like you're saying not to bother paying anyone because you can learn it all yourself.

I call a plumber when the pipes get blocked. I call a carpenter if I want good woodwork done. I call a professional when I want something done right.

You can't learn everything. At some point you have to rely on others for their skills and that's worth paying for.

At least that's what I'm getting here. I might be wrong because you're not being too clear, at least not to this old broad.
 
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