Insurance for Burglary, Theft, Robbery and Life Insurance Questions

I know you claim to prefer what you call 'personal contact' here but you really should help yourself more by initially either googling or visiting a local Insurance Agent so the questions you pose here can be more specific. You can't get more personal than chatting to someone and I'm sure they would be delighted to show how much they know about their subject. They might make a sale -


The answers will vary depending upon specific circumstances and values and the amount of administrative detail you really need relevant to your story.

Is the story about an Insurance Investigator, or an Estate Administrator, or a Detective, or a beneficiary. To what extent are all these process and paperwork details relevant? In technical areas, the more detail one goes into the greater the risk of screwing it up and showing a lack of knowledge. Remember K.I.S.S. Keep. It. Simple. Stupid.

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Your first question relates to Insurance and the Insurance company will pay out to the claimant once the Company is satisfied the claim is genuine and they have established the amount required to settle the claim.

The Insurance Company's Investigation Agents interview whoever they choose to interview and it may take months or years to settle.


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Your second set of questions are again so sweeping you should use you friendly solicitor.

The deceased is obviously a US citizen and presumably of US domicile and the fact the death occurs in the UK is irrelevant.

All procedures for payment of the Insurance monies in accordance with the terms of the Policy will be the same as if he died in the US with the one exception that the original Death Certificate will be issued in the UK - assuming his death can be certified and there is a body and he didn't drown while sailing on his own...

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Re the third section once the Executors are confirmed as such through Probate formalities they stand in the shoes of the deceased and settle his affairs. The money would generally be paid to the Executors on presentation of Probate and form part of the deceased's estate.

Any help?

REMLIG said:

I have many questions regarding several types of insurance in the US.

My first set of questions have to do with Insurance for Burglary, Theft, and Robbery.

The person had been robbed by a burglar. The person calls the cops and their insurance company and report it.

Insurance claims in a robbery (large value items), how is the process handled?

Do the cops investigate it? Does the insurance company investigates it also? Do they work together?

How long does it take to do the investigation? What is the turn around time in the investigation?

What type of paperwork is filed? What is the process like?

Do they interview people?

How long does it take before the insurance company writes a check to the person that has been robbed?


My second set of questions have to do with Life Insurance.

The person is a US citizen, they have a life insurance policy with a Insurance company with in the US. They die outside of the US, lets say while on vacation. They have a will and they leave their assets to someone living in the US.

What is the process with the insurance company?

What type of paperwork is filed? Would the Death Certificate be from another country?

Does the insurance company get a copy of the will?

What is the process like?


My third set of questions have to do with a combination of both.

If the person has a pending insurance claim for both loss from a burglary, and they die while it is pending what happens?

Does the insurance money go to the person named in the will?

Thank you for taking the time to help me!

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REMLIG, please be more specific. For one, the US is awfully large, and at least some of the answers rely on the specific location.

Also look to your needs - what kind of insurance would have been taken out on these large value items? how well secured were they? etc.

I second Bufty's recommendation to contact an insurance agent who handles this kind of stuff.

REMLIG said:

I still have questions.

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And the answer to every one of them is that it depends.

You need to learn how homeowner's insurance works, for which there are tons of magazine articles, books, and internet sites. If I had some idea of what your plot needed, then I could give you some help.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

I actually was an insurance agent in Texas for 15 years. I provided some answers below, however, I will caution you that each state and jurisdiction operates differently. It would be wise to contact an agent in the specific state where your character is a resident.

REMLIG said:

I have many questions regarding several types of insurance in the US.

My first set of questions have to do with Insurance for Burglary, Theft, and Robbery.

The person had been robbed by a burglar. The person calls the cops and their insurance company and report it. The police will always take a police report. Depending on the circumstances, they may or may not actually come to the scene of the crime. Bear in mind the differences between burglary and robbery. For instance, in the case of a robbery (person-on-person crime) they will always send an officer. For burglary (theft from a premises) they may only send an officer out if the value of the stolen items reaches a certain amount. Otherwise, they may take a report over the phone.

Insurance claims in a robbery (large value items), how is the process handled? The insurance adjuster will speak to the person who was robbed and/or the owner of the property. They will usually conduct a recorded interview, require sworn statements, etc. Proof of ownership is required in the form of appraisals, photographs, receipts, etc.

Do the cops investigate it? Does the insurance company investigates it also? Do they work together? If the items a large value, yes. However, sometimes the only thing the police will do is record the serial numbers/descriptions for reference to match to recovered property or items discovered at pawn shops. If the insurance company thinks there are suspicious circumstances, they will turn the file over to their Special Investigative Unit for more detailed investigation, at which point credit reports for the owners, employment history, etc may be required.

How long does it take to do the investigation? What is the turn around time in the investigation? Depends on the circumstances. If no suspicions, could be as little as a week. If anything seems fishy, could be six months or more.

What type of paperwork is filed? What is the process like? See above

Do they interview people? See above

How long does it take before the insurance company writes a check to the person that has been robbed? Some policies pay for large items (jewelry, furs, paintings) regardless of what happens to them, so even if you lose your Rolex somewhere they will write you a check for the insured value. In those cases, it's not uncommon to have the check within 1-2 weeks. If the items are covered under a regular homeowner's insurance policy, it could be anywhere from 3 weeks on.

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REMLIG said:

Beachgirl -- Thank you for answering my questions. You have been very very helpful. And I will contact an insurance agent sometime soon for more detailed answers.

I don't want to give away my entire plot so my questions might seem vague. But if you, or someone else knows the answers to any of these questions please feel free to answer.

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The insurance company really doesn't care where the death occurred. All they need is a copy of the death certificate and the completed claim packet that the beneficiary fills out. The death certificate would be issued by the officials in the country where the death occurred. The insurance company generally does not get a copy of the will. Based on my experience, the process is usually quick. I once distributed a claim check to a widow for $1mill within a week of the claim being filed.

REMLIG, I don't think you'd be giving away the plot by sharing details of location and what kind of insurance your characters would take. If I told you that my character was an elderly, upper class lady living in England in the Victorian era, would you immediately think I was writing 'Great Expectations'?

You're really not going to get any useful answers unless you're prepared to give more details.

I know if it's a life or medical insurance claim, it has to be made out to 'The Estate of ...', once the bank knows that the account holder is dead. The bank will refuse it, and you'll have to return the cheque to the issuer. AFAIK you can't just make it directly out to the 'the person or people the dead person leaves it to'. People lie. People misinterpret. People are overly-optimistic.

frimble3 said:

I know if it's a life or medical insurance claim, it has to be made out to 'The Estate of ...', once the bank knows that the account holder is dead. The bank will refuse it, and you'll have to return the cheque to the issuer. AFAIK you can't just make it directly out to the 'the person or people the dead person leaves it to'. People lie. People misinterpret. People are overly-optimistic.

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For the claim on the stolen items, the check would be made out to the estate and would go through probate. Life insurance checks are made out directly to the life insurance beneficiary, at least in the US.

Beachgirl said:

For the claim on the stolen items, the check would be made out to the estate and would go through probate. Life insurance checks are made out directly to the life insurance beneficiary, at least in the US.

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Probably different regulations then for different countries.

If an outstanding insurance claim payment goes to the Executors it would normally form part of the deceased's estate, become merged with everything else the deceased left and therefore lose its identity as an insurance claim payment and form part of the residue of the estate UNLESS the deceased specifically bequeathed that insurance claim payment to a named beneficiary.

There may or may not also be Death Tax issues with a large amount being involved.

You must stop raising these issues in isolation as if they all have cut and dried answers -they don't.

Estate administration and Insurance matters can be very complicated and the deeper you go into the technicalities the deeper you sink.

You should stop being so vague and instead either provide a specific scenario - or go talk to someone face to face.

And re your last question about theft and burglary etc., try googling your exact question and see what happens. Copy and paste the question and it will save you expending any energy typing it into Google.

REMLIG said:

Beachgirl -- Thank you again for answering my questions. You have helped me a lot understand the process.

I guess in my last series of questions, if a person dies while an insurance claim is pending for loss of stolen items, it would go to their probate estate and the person or people the dead person leaves it to, right?

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Bufty said:

Estate administration and Insurance matters can be very complicated and the deeper you go into the technicalities the deeper you sink.

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Okay, your guy croaks at 1 PM of natural causes. At 4 PM his Picasso is stolen, worth $1.4 mil. Understand that the insurance company would prefer not pay $1.4 mil. It tends to have a bad effect on its profits.

There is no clause in the insurance policy that covers this situation.

Insurance company's initial reaction is guy died at 1 PM, therefore he didn't own it at 4 PM. Further, neither did his estate, as a will transfers title immediately upon death. Therefor the insurance company is not liable. (Wills are effective immediately upon death. The fact that the probate estate takes time to resolve this isn't necessarily important.)

Executor argues that the time of death and theft is questionable and this period is covered within the time statute all states have. (It used to be a major issue as to whether A or B died first in a car accident, for instance. To get around this problem, all states have created statutes that say that time of death is actually not a specific point for legal purposes, but a range, usually something like 24 hours, but it depends upon the state.)

Unless someone is watching the person, time of death is always an iffy number, whether by minutes or hours or in some cases by days. Even a witnessed death is somewhat iffy within ten minutes as to the exact time of death, even when a doctor calls it. Further, unless someone was next to the Picasso when it was stolen, how do you know the exact time of theft. Much litigation can follow.

Further, the executor claims that the policy runs with the Picasso, not the named insured. Not only will this effect whether the policy was in effect, it will effect who receives the check. If the policy runs with the Picasso (here I'm thinking of running with the bulls -- the mind goes in strange ways), then the person who received the Picasso under the will gets the check and it doesn't go through his estate. If the policy runs with the named insured, then the check goes to the estate.

I'm thinking you've got a complex situation here, and without the specific facts, it's unlikely a generic answer is going to help you much. Insurance policies are very complex. Take the time and actually read your auto or homeowner's policy. Line-by-line, word-by-word. I bet you're going to be shocked to find what is and is not covered.

For example, potential client approaches me about representing him against his insurance company which was refusing to pay him for his truck. His truck, which he took out onto a lake for ice fishing, had done the submarine act and was totaled. Listened to him for less then ten minutes before sending him on his way to find an attorney dumber then I am. The reason -- insurance policies specifically exclude acts of stupidity like driving on frozen lakes.

What you're trying to do is ask a doctor why your tummy hurts, without giving the doctor more specific information.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

REMLIG said:

What is the difference between a robbery, theft and burglary?

Does one happen at gun point? Or does one happen when no one is around?

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Dictionary?

(Hint -- gun does not matter as the issue is whether the person was armed, not armed with what, and that only applies to a subset of one of the words.)

(Further hint -- there is an overlap here in the words. In other words, all oaks are trees, but not all trees are oaks.)

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

jclarkdawe said:

Okay, your guy croaks at 1 PM of natural causes. At 4 PM his Picasso is stolen, worth $1.4 mil. Understand that the insurance company would prefer not pay $1.4 mil. It tends to have a bad effect on its profits.

There is no clause in the insurance policy that covers this situation.

Insurance company's initial reaction is guy died at 1 PM, therefore he didn't own it at 4 PM. Further, neither did his estate, as a will transfers title immediately upon death. Therefor the insurance company is not liable. (Wills are effective immediately upon death. The fact that the probate estate takes time to resolve this isn't necessarily important.)

Executor argues that the time of death and theft is questionable and this period is covered within the time statute all states have. (It used to be a major issue as to whether A or B died first in a car accident, for instance. To get around this problem, all states have created statutes that say that time of death is actually not a specific point for legal purposes, but a range, usually something like 24 hours, but it depends upon the state.)

Unless someone is watching the person, time of death is always an iffy number, whether by minutes or hours or in some cases by days. Even a witnessed death is somewhat iffy within ten minutes as to the exact time of death, even when a doctor calls it. Further, unless someone was next to the Picasso when it was stolen, how do you know the exact time of theft. Much litigation can follow.

Further, the executor claims that the policy runs with the Picasso, not the named insured. Not only will this effect whether the policy was in effect, it will effect who receives the check. If the policy runs with the Picasso (here I'm thinking of running with the bulls -- the mind goes in strange ways), then the person who received the Picasso under the will gets the check and it doesn't go through his estate. If the policy runs with the named insured, then the check goes to the estate.

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So a home owner killed during burglary is screwed both ways. Neither on his home policy (because he's dead) nor his life insurance (because death is not accidental nor natural).

Somehow that doesn't make much sense to me.

I always thought contracts survived the deceased through his/her estate and only those service-related contracts which required personal expertise and labor are cancelled.

So in this case the home insurance would survive and the estate could issue an insurance claim. No?

-cb

Understand that the larger the claim, the more likely an insurance company is to fight. Take a look at State Farm after Hurricane Katrina.

cbenoi1 said:

So a home owner killed during burglary is screwed both ways. Neither on his home policy (because he's dead) nor his life insurance (because death is not accidental nor natural). No, the person is fine. Deaths are either accidental or natural. Homicide is a type of accidental death. The only time life insurance doesn't kick in automatically is suicide and government ordered execution. And there are some exceptions around those situations.

The property insurance kicks in even if the policy runs to the insured because each state has a law that gives a window around an individual's death. Here the question would be whether the burglary was before or after the death, but because of all the litigation around this issue, a legal window was created to avoid this litigation.

And most homeowner's insurance runs to the property, and not the insured for a couple of reasons, including this.

Somehow that doesn't make much sense to me. Insurance law is a morass to trap the unsuspecting.

I always thought contracts survived the deceased through his/her estate and only those service-related contracts which required personal expertise and labor are cancelled. Mostly they do, but not always. And high end insurance is especially complicated.

So in this case the home insurance would survive and the estate could issue an insurance claim. No? Correct.

-cb

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My point here is that these things are complicated, and when a writer is dealing with esoteric situations, and when a writer is dealing with something they don't know and is looking at expert help, you've got to share what you want to do with the expert(s) to get useful help. I can create situations where insurance will kick in and where it won't by little changes in the facts. Other experts on this forum can do the same thing, both on this subject and the numerous other subjects that come up here.

Asking for everything we know on a subject is so time consuming as to be impossible to do. The largest chapter by far in my book is insurance as it relates to the horse industry. To produce a chapter like that requires an immense knowledge base to work from.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

> Insurance law is a morass to trap the unsuspecting

I'm getting the feel for that, thanks.

-cb

I wouldn't bank on that without reading all the small print, Tammy.

Tis a spammer, Bufty, no need to play.

There are a couple of items that make the situation more complicated than it needs to be (mybe). If the character dies outside his home country, then the estate would be settles under the rules of that place. If just in another state, then it still wouuld be settled under the laws of that state. It might be necessary to have the will probated in the character's home country.

The matter of time of death vs time of theft wouldn't make any difference, unless that theft happened the next day, because the goods belong to the person, not the estate, until innediately after midnight of the day of death.

How much investigation would be done by the insurance company depends on the company. It would certainly expect to see the police reort, snd that would usually be adequate.

A deceased's estate is not 'settled under the rules of that place where he dies' if he dies outside his own country.

Snick, in your first paragraph you are entering dangerous and unknown territory and raising technical issues regarding domicile and the distinction between laws relating to moveable or heritable property, and the resealing of Foreign Probates.

Snick said:

There are a couple of items that make the situation more complicated than it needs to be (mybe). If the character dies outside his home country, then the estate would be settles under the rules of that place. If just in another state, then it still wouuld be settled under the laws of that state. It might be necessary to have the will probated in the character's home country.

The matter of time of death vs time of theft wouldn't make any difference, unless that theft happened the next day, because the goods belong to the person, not the estate, until innediately after midnight of the day of death.

How much investigation would be done by the insurance company depends on the company. It would certainly expect to see the police reort, snd that would usually be adequate.

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