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View Full Version : Early Reviews for The Dark Knight Rises are IN!!![SPOILERS AHEAD]



Diana Hignutt
07-07-2012, 06:10 PM
http://www.worstpreviews.com/headline.php?id=25355&count=0

And they're very good...

Celia Cyanide
07-07-2012, 09:50 PM
I'm so excited. I think it will actually be a good ending to a trilogy, for once. I'm not reading them yet, but I'm glad to hear that people are liking it.

Toothpaste
07-07-2012, 10:07 PM
Still don't have butterflies for this one, and it's weird as I am a Nolan fan. But I am so hoping once I see it my skepticism vanishes and I fall in love.

Celia, you can read the article, no spoilers just people being enthusiastic.

thebloodfiend
07-08-2012, 12:05 AM
Still don't have butterflies for this one, and it's weird as I am a Nolan fan. But I am so hoping once I see it my skepticism vanishes and I fall in love.

Celia, you can read the article, no spoilers just people being enthusiastic.

Same here. I love everything Nolan's done (despite the dead woman syndrome) but I can't get enthusiastic about the Batman movies. And I don't know why. I'm a HUGE Batman fan.

katci13
07-08-2012, 12:11 AM
My sister and I got our tickets 2 weeks ago. ^_^

Fenika
07-08-2012, 12:48 AM
I almost never buy DVDs, but I've been dying for the box set of Batman for a longgg time. So looking forward to this one. I also rarely go to the theater, but I'll be going for this!

J.S.F.
07-08-2012, 02:11 AM
I
Can't
Wait
!!!!!!!

karo.ambrose
07-08-2012, 09:39 AM
i need to restrain myself from watching anymore tdkr trailers, anymore reviews or news or anything. i've got two weeks to go and the anticipation is killing me in a very good way. i haven't been this geeked about a movie since jurassic park came out when i was, like, eleven.

wait, i take that back. since tdk came out in 2008.

nighttimer
07-08-2012, 10:34 AM
I don't need any more trailers and don't need to read any reviews. All I need is a ticket.

And since the movie is two hours and 44 minutes long, I'm going to need a nap before I see it.

Shellyjm
07-08-2012, 10:30 PM
I'm ridiculously overexcited. Actually can't wait. It looks like it's going to be fantastic.

BenPanced
07-18-2012, 06:46 AM
Internet asshattery still astounds me: Rotten Tomatoes suspends comments on The Dark Knight Rises (http://news.yahoo.com/rotten-tomatoes-suspends-comments-dark-knight-003301147.html)

hadou
07-18-2012, 07:58 AM
I greatly enjoyed the first two movies. The third one seems to be awesome. I'll definitely go to the movies and see it.

J.S.F.
07-18-2012, 08:43 AM
Opening in Japan on the 28th.

Gimme the ticket, gimme the ticket, gimme the TICKET!!!!!

Diana Hignutt
07-18-2012, 03:00 PM
OMG!!! I'M SO EXCITED!!!I CAN'T WAIT!!!

Going Saturday, if I can get tickets...

Wind Ann Wise
07-18-2012, 05:59 PM
I'm so excited! I loved Dark Knight, so Rises should be even better!

Grrarrgh
07-18-2012, 10:09 PM
I already bought our tickets! I can't wait for this.

Celia Cyanide
07-19-2012, 08:28 AM
tomorrow at mightnight!

Jcomp
07-20-2012, 12:08 PM
I'm absolutely buzzing right now. Loved it! LOVED IT!

K. Taylor
07-20-2012, 03:09 PM
I'm absolutely buzzing right now. Loved it! LOVED IT!

DITTO.

Celia Cyanide
07-20-2012, 05:06 PM
SO AWESOME!!!!! Exceeded my expectations.

Parametric
07-20-2012, 08:09 PM
Loved it! Applause in the theatre as the credits rolled.

vfury
07-20-2012, 10:06 PM
Amazing! Everyone clapped at the end here, too. Planning to go in a week or two for a rewatch.

Jcomp
07-20-2012, 10:39 PM
Hell, I'm going back tomorrow to watch it again. If not for other business I have to tend to today, I'd probably be back in the theater right now.

Opty
07-20-2012, 11:18 PM
I liked it though I liked the second one better. Hardy's Bane is definitely imposing but it's hard to follow Ledger's extraordinary turn as the Joker.

I was also pleasantly surprised by Hathaway as Selina Kyle. I initially felt she might have been miscast when I first heard she was in it, but I thought she did very well with it. Did the role justice, I thought.


Also....MAN OF STEEL TEASER!!! I about geek-crapped my pants at the end of that trailer.

J.S.F.
07-21-2012, 01:57 AM
You haz all scene the movie before I does.

Ah am extremely...disappointed...:evil.



However, just one more week to go.

Zoombie
07-21-2012, 02:01 AM
I quite enjoyed it!

...though, is it just me, or was the movie rather conservative politically?

Celia Cyanide
07-21-2012, 04:33 AM
However, just one more week to go.

One more WEEK? Do you have to stay in bed because of doctor's orders or something? Why would you wait that long?

Celia Cyanide
07-21-2012, 04:55 AM
I quite enjoyed it!

...though, is it just me, or was the movie rather conservative politically?

I didn't really see it that way.

But then again, I don't really see a lot of politics where others do, because Batman is a vigilante, and he's not really advocating for a political agenda. He wears a mask. He wants to do what he does in secret, not make it law so that the government and the police force can do it.

This is what I did see:

Catwoman was sort of a Robin Hood character, and seemed to represent the 99%. Meanwhile, Bruce Wayne is the 1%, and he's trying to do something positive with what he has, which is why he respects her, and she comes to respect him.

I thought Anne Hathaway was great. I never doubted her for a minute because I have learned to trust Nolan after I caught myself thinking, "I don't see how Heath Ledger could be the Joker." I just didn't understand why people were saying she wasn't attractive enough for the role. If Kirsten Dunst is attractive enough to play Mary Jane Parker, Anne Hathaway is attractive enough to be Catwoman!

I thought Bale did an excellent job this time around. It was as if the success of TDK, and perhaps Heath's Oscar, made him realize how good the series actually was. He really put a lot more into the role this time.

ETA: I was glad to see the Man Of Steel trailer because the rest of the trailers were garbage! Everyone laughed loudly at TAKEN 2.

Celia Cyanide
07-21-2012, 04:59 AM
Couldda cut the new cop

How could you possibly have cut him? With Bruce Wayne gone, there would have been no one left to take over.

Celia Cyanide
07-21-2012, 05:57 AM
Easy. Make him not gone. I would have preferred that, knowing he was still out there prowling.

Until he isn't. He will die one day. For real this time.

Zoombie
07-21-2012, 07:57 AM
I didn't really see it that way.

But then again, I don't really see a lot of politics where others do, because Batman is a vigilante, and he's not really advocating for a political agenda. He wears a mask. He wants to do what he does in secret, not make it law so that the government and the police force can do it.

Well, it's less Batman and more Bane and his "Totally Not Occupy Wallstreet" movement.

Or was I the only one who got the vibe of, "LOOK AT WHAT YOUR CALLS FOR REVOLUTION HAS WROUGHT, OH YOUTH OF AMERICA!"

Jcomp
07-21-2012, 08:16 AM
Well, it's less Batman and more Bane and his "Totally Not Occupy Wallstreet" movement.

Or was I the only one who got the vibe of, "LOOK AT WHAT YOUR CALLS FOR REVOLUTION HAS WROUGHT, OH YOUTH OF AMERICA!"

I didn't get that vibe at all. But, like Celina, I didn't think The Dark Knight was a "conservative" movie either, even though people try to make that connection. To me, it's a stretch. Even if you take Bane as the example, I think the argument could easily be reformed as "MAKE SURE YOUR REVOLUTION ISN'T APPROPRIATED BY MILITARISTIC, FASCIST SUPERVILLAINS WITH AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT, NEFARIOUS AGENDA, OH YOUTH OF AMERICA!" That's not a conservative argument at all.

Anyway, as great as it is, it's still a comic book movie. Why people are so quick to politicize it baffles me.

Zoombie
07-21-2012, 09:15 AM
True enough. I guess I was just thinking about it at the time due to, well, Limbaugh's stupidity.

Celia Cyanide
07-21-2012, 09:19 AM
I think the argument could easily be reformed as "MAKE SURE YOUR REVOLUTION ISN'T APPROPRIATED BY MILITARISTIC, FASCIST SUPERVILLAINS WITH AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT, NEFARIOUS AGENDA, OH YOUTH OF AMERICA!" That's not a conservative argument at all.

Well, exactly. Just look at what the Weather Underground did, and Bane makes them look like the Boy Scouts. Like most great villains, Bane has a point, and he isn't evil for no good reason. Batman and Ras Al Ghul started off on the same side. But you can take anything to an extreme and turn it into something destructive.

K. Taylor
07-21-2012, 12:42 PM
The point of this film wasn't about Batman beating the bad guy - really isn't. It's about Bruce beating his demons. It's about hope, and it's about embracing life. The Batman world is complex, full, Bruce is a complicated, haunted man, and everybody has layers. As a fan since I was a kid, I'm so happy with this film. It made me cry at the end with a big smile on my face.

Also, as a fan of Batman the Animated Series, seeing Bruce and Selina together at the end swelled my shipper heart.

Zoombie
07-21-2012, 12:47 PM
It was a very bleak film with a surprisingly happy ending.

Heh...a friend who doesn't mind spoilers asked me if Batman died, and I said yes...and then was about to correct myself, but then I realized that, in a way, he kind of did. I mean, Bruce Wayne is retired.

But then again...he also didn't, as JGL is there to carry on.

I'd watch a movie with him as the new Batman. Heck, I think that they could fix some of the nagging issues I've had with this series...I mean, no offense, but the hand-to-hand combat scenes are not that great. They've always felt slightly off for some reason...I think it might be the costume?

I know it'd be hard, but I really want to see a live action version of a fight...well, like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-IgizeI3mg

You know. Clear, brutal, flowing...Batman.

...the video I linked, now that I watch it...this guy's technique is AWFUL. Doesn't he know you should START with a punch, THEN move onto the gadgets. And...he doesn't even work up his combo moves! GOD THIS GUY IS AWFUL, I'm so sorry...

nighttimer
07-21-2012, 02:30 PM
My son went with some friends to a showing of all three of the Nolan Batman films and partied afterward. At least I think that's why he didn't stumble in until 4:00 in the morning.

When he woke up that afternoon I told him about the shooting spree in Colorado. He was stunned.

I know I'll see the movie, but my enthusiasm to see it immediately has dimmed somewhat. It just seems vaguely inappropriate to go and enjoy myself like nothing has happened.

Jcomp
07-21-2012, 05:24 PM
I know I'll see the movie, but my enthusiasm to see it immediately has dimmed somewhat. It just seems vaguely inappropriate to go and enjoy myself like nothing has happened.

I can feel that. To each their own. Personally, I've looked at it more as a "if you do / don't do 'x,' then the terrorist wins" sort of thing (as I run out of ways to express myself beyond cliche). This one hit relatively close to home for me, for a couple of reasons I won't specify but, I'm still going back to see TKDR again today or tomorrow as business permits. Every day we enjoy ourselves in some capacity or another as though people aren't being murdered around the clock, around the world. This asshole already took 12 lives, I'm not giving him the satisfaction of derailing my life in the slightest because of what he did. I can't even be bothered to remember his name.

Jcomp
07-21-2012, 06:50 PM
As to the movie itself... I also want to add that Hathaway was gotdamn awesome in this. Of the two dueling (not really, but it's a pop-culture discussion so of course I'm turning it into an unnecessary competition) super-heroic women in black that we saw this summer, I think Catwoman beat out Black Widow pretty easily. And I'm a fan of Scarlett as an actress, but Hathaway knocked this one out.

Celia Cyanide
07-21-2012, 07:24 PM
As to the movie itself... I also want to add that Hathaway was gotdamn awesome in this. Of the two dueling (not really, but it's a pop-culture discussion so of course I'm turning it into an unnecessary competition) super-heroic women in black that we saw this summer, I think Catwoman beat out Black Widow pretty easily. And I'm a fan of Scarlett as an actress, but Hathaway knocked this one out.

Yeah, if you compare the 2, she was way better. I heard she was studying Hedy Lamarr, whom the original Catwoman was based on. You can tell she really got into it. I think a lot of actresses would just have thought it was a sexy woman role, and not put that much work into it.

My husband just told me the funniest story about her. She had auditioned for this role, and a few days later, her agent called her and said, "Anne, I've got good news!" and she immediately started running around the room screaming, "I'm Catwoman! I'm Catwoman! I'm Catwoman!"

When she got back on the phone, her agent said, "No, Anne. You're hosting the Oscars."

"...oh..."

Parametric
07-21-2012, 07:28 PM
I also really liked Marion Cotillard. Did not see that coming.

Jcomp
07-21-2012, 07:49 PM
My husband just told me the funniest story about her. She had auditioned for this role, and a few days later, her agent called her and said, "Anne, I've got good news!" and she immediately started running around the room screaming, "I'm Catwoman! I'm Catwoman! I'm Catwoman!"

When she got back on the phone, her agent said, "No, Anne. You're hosting the Oscars."

"...oh..."

Ha. Shows how enthused she was about the part, too. It showed up on film.


I also really liked Marion Cotillard. Did not see that coming.

Yes, she was great. She'd been rumored to be originally playing the role of Talia, so I had suspected what was coming, but I thought it was very well-executed and patiently approached. At a certain point with this movie I had to enforce a personal embargo on any internet rumors because the rampant speculation was generating spoiler after spoiler. It was tough, because the website I run is a pop-culture news / commentary site, so we had to stay in the know to a degree, but I mostly left those updates up to my biz partner and tried as much as I could to stay in the dark.

cherita
07-22-2012, 12:41 AM
Well, it's less Batman and more Bane and his "Totally Not Occupy Wallstreet" movement.

Or was I the only one who got the vibe of, "LOOK AT WHAT YOUR CALLS FOR REVOLUTION HAS WROUGHT, OH YOUTH OF AMERICA!"

I really, really enjoyed Dark Knight Rises but... you're not the only one who got that vibe -- I did too, as did lots of critics. I found those scenes to be very French Revolution. It seems silly to say these movies aren't political, when the plot of every one has hinged on socio-political happenings in Gotham, and every villain has been of the revolutionary sort wanting to bring down a decadent and corrupt ruling class. That said, I was also a little surprised at just how conservative the message was in this particular one - you're not alone there either.

Also, I was entirely underwhelmed by Anne Hathaway as Catwoman. Granted, I was highly skeptical of her going in, but I sort of felt the same way about Heath Ledger and I thought he was the most awesome thing about Dark Knight. But I never once believed that Hathaway was the coy, witty bad-ass the script called for. She failed to convince me -- I didn't even believe she was as bad-ass as me, and I am no Catwoman. Worse, the entire time I kept thinking Marion Cotillard could've pulled off an awesome Catwoman, and why was she being wasted on such a throwaway role. Ok, I get the reasoning why now that I've seen the whole thing, but I still feel like she was a little bit wasted. I don't know -- maybe I'm just not an Anne Hathaway fan.

K. Taylor
07-22-2012, 01:31 AM
I don't think Anne and Scarlet can be compared in this instance because it's a leading role vs supporting one. The writing for Selina/Catwoman was fantastic.

Miranda ending up on the wrong side, I didn't 100% guess, but it was no surprise when things went like they did. I'd gone radio silence to avoid spoilers, too, but I just knew Talia would be in this. You can't have Ras in the series without his daughter showing up. More fangirl squeeing.

There was a little Batman Beyond in Bruce being a shut-in with a beat-up body and using a cane, though the Bruce in BB is an old man since it's set in the future.

Crash11
07-22-2012, 01:39 AM
I'm a huge Batman fan, and I liked the movie a lot, but I was sad that Nolan had stepped so far away from the conventional Batman lore. I'm not saying he should have followed the previous comics stories or anything, that would have been horribly boring, but as long-time fans we sort of expect them to take familiar ground and twist it with a new and fresh touch. Nolan did this with the first two movies, they had tons of elements that long time Batman fans found very familar, while also separting the stories and characters into their own unique entities. This movie though, he just seemed like he moved too far away from the traditional lore and offered very little lore-based content. If that makes sense.

Celia Cyanide
07-22-2012, 01:48 AM
I really, really enjoyed Dark Knight Rises but... you're not the only one who got that vibe -- I did too, as did lots of critics. I found those scenes to be very French Revolution. It seems silly to say these movies aren't political, when the plot of every one has hinged on socio-political happenings in Gotham, and every villain has been of the revolutionary sort wanting to bring down a decadent and corrupt ruling class. That said, I was also a little surprised at just how conservative the message was in this particular one - you're not alone there either.

I have to echo JComp. How is that a "conservative message"?

Shadow_Ferret
07-22-2012, 02:18 AM
I can't wait... for this to come out on DVD.

karo.ambrose
07-22-2012, 06:32 AM
(whited out for spoilers)

went to the midnight showing. i liked it... but i think i overhyped so much in my own head i couldn't appreciate it for what it is.

so i'm going again on tuesday. in imax. with a more open mind.

no villain can outdo what ledger did for the joker. but that's a given, and i don't fault hardy at all for that. but storywise,bane's demise seemed too convenient because it really seemed a battle of muscle versus muscle, whereas the joker's demise felt more valid and intriguing because even after batman beat him in the fistfight, the joker still won because he brought down harvey dent, defeating batman in the "fight for gotham's soul," so batman had to make an even bigger sacrifice in taking the fall for dent's crimes.

i also thought talia's presence could have been greater, seeing as she was the true villain, albeit a mostly shadow villain.

also the climax seemed typical hollywood blockbuster, what with the nuclear bomb threatening to blow up the city, and the hero making the martyr sacrifice. it felt lackluster because the other batman movies steered away from such a cliche.

but i mean, i've seen batman begins and tdk a hundred times each, and i've been anticipating this movie for four years, so my expectations were larger than any movie could really be, tbh.

Kyla Laufreyson
07-22-2012, 08:34 AM
All I will say is....went to the premiere, loved it...plan to see it several more times while it's still in theaters. Nolan is welcome to my money. Like, all of it.

Also, I was ecstatic over Crane's like 3-minute appearance. The man is my favorite Batman character ever created, so having him manage to be in all three of these movies (even if his role in 2 of the 3 was tiny) made my life.

Mr. Anonymous
07-22-2012, 08:59 AM
Well, it's less Batman and more Bane and his "Totally Not Occupy Wallstreet" movement.

Or was I the only one who got the vibe of, "LOOK AT WHAT YOUR CALLS FOR REVOLUTION HAS WROUGHT, OH YOUTH OF AMERICA!"

I definitely see what you're getting at, but...Bane basically ignited a class war. It's not politically conservative to say that war of any kind is an ugly, ugly thing. To be honest, I found myself making a connection not to Occupy Wallstreet, but to The French Revolution. The show trials, the executions, the mob casting down the formerly rich and powerful, liberating the prison/storming the bastlle, etc...


As for the rest of the movie, I quite liked it. But...

Spoilers...


























Not a fan of the happy ending. And wish I could understand the motivations of the villain/s better. Like I understood Raz's motivations in Batman Begins.

nighttimer
07-22-2012, 11:15 AM
I can feel that. To each their own. Personally, I've looked at it more as a "if you do / don't do 'x,' then the terrorist wins" sort of thing (as I run out of ways to express myself beyond cliche). This one hit relatively close to home for me, for a couple of reasons I won't specify but, I'm still going back to see TKDR again today or tomorrow as business permits. Every day we enjoy ourselves in some capacity or another as though people aren't being murdered around the clock, around the world. This asshole already took 12 lives, I'm not giving him the satisfaction of derailing my life in the slightest because of what he did. I can't even be bothered to remember his name.

I envy your ability to forget.

It's obvious the shooting had a chilling effect (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/21/entertainment-us-usa-shooting-boxoffice-idUSBRE86K0HR20120721) on The Dark Knight Rises opening weekend. How much we won't know for a while, but it may fall short of The Avengers $207 million opening.


(Reuters) - Hollywood studios will not release box-offices figures on Sunday after the fatal gun rampage at a midnight showing for the Batman movie "The Dark Knight Rises," which made less money than some industry insiders projected.


The film grossed $74 million on Friday in the United States and Canada and is seen generating $173 million by the end of the weekend, people with knowledge of industry figures said on Saturday.


Official figures were not released by the distributor, Warner Bros. For the first time box office watchers could remember, Hollywood's other major film studios decided not to release weekend ticket sales figures on Saturday.


"We're joining our colleagues at Warner Bros and not reporting grosses during this period of mourning," Sony Pictures said in a statement.


Hollywood.com Box Office, which reports the weekend figures, said it was not sure if it would publish its list this week.


A Warner Brothers spokeswoman did not return calls seeking comment on Friday night numbers.


"Dark Knight Rises" was one of the most-anticipated films of the year before a gunman opened fire on moviegoers at a midnight screening in Aurora, Colorado, early Friday, killing 12 people and wounding 58 more.


Ahead of the debut, box office forecasters predicted opening weekend sales in a range of $170 million to $198 million from Friday through Sunday, just shy of the record $207 million set by superhero movie "The Avengers" in May.


"The cable news networks were wall-to-wall with the shooting, so it had some shock value that will keep people away," former Columbia Pictures marketing chief Peter Sealey said. "But it will be short term. This movie will play for five or six weeks and still do great business."


The trailer for Gangster Squad was removed from showings of The Dark Knight Rises. There's a scene where gunmen open fire on the theater audience from behind the screen.

I wonder if that scene will remain when the movie opens or go the way of Ben Stiller's Neighborhood Watch which received a name change to "The Watch" after George Zimmerman gunned down Trayvon Martin.

thekingsguard
07-22-2012, 05:22 PM
Watched it, reviewed (http://korsgaardscommentary.blogspot.com/2012/07/the-dark-knight-rises.html) it... much to my suprise, thought it was awful. Very bloated, suprisingly dull, and the plot was very predictable and riddled with plot holes.

What about the rest of you?

Diana Hignutt
07-22-2012, 05:30 PM
It was MAGNIFICENT, but the uniformed TSA agent checking the theater we were in was a sobering reminder...

Celia Cyanide
07-22-2012, 05:50 PM
The trailer for Gangster Squad was removed from showings of The Dark Knight Rises.

Good, because it was crap! Now if only they would do something about the Total Recall trailer!

Jcomp
07-22-2012, 08:20 PM
There was a little Batman Beyond in Bruce being a shut-in with a beat-up body and using a cane, though the Bruce in BB is an old man since it's set in the future.

Yeah, Nolan does a pretty good job of referencing the various incarnations of Batman. I definitely picked up the Batman Beyond vibe with Bruce in the beginning. And the "So that's what that feels like" line is straight out of the Kingdom Come graphic novel. I love those little touches.

gothicangel
07-22-2012, 08:27 PM
Watched it, reviewed (http://korsgaardscommentary.blogspot.com/2012/07/the-dark-knight-rises.html) it... much to my suprise, thought it was awful. Very bloated, suprisingly dull, and the plot was very predictable and riddled with plot holes.

What about the rest of you?

There is already a discussion in the forum. I'm sure a mod will come along and merge the threads.

thekingsguard
07-22-2012, 08:41 PM
There is already a discussion in the forum. I'm sure a mod will come along and merge the threads.

Where? I searched the top three pages of this subsection at the time and found nothing DKR related.

Belle_91
07-22-2012, 08:55 PM
Diana mentioned the TSA agents, but I was wondering, did anyone else get an eerie feeling watching the movie after knowing about the attack?

I wanted to see this film in theaters before the shooting happened, but now I'm not so sure if I can do that. I'm not really worried about a copycat, just knowing where in the movie the real violence actually occured. How was it for you seeing the film? I'm sure all of the initial excitement from other movie goers died down and watching it would be a kind of sober affair. That's just what I'm thinking it might be like. Would you recommend seeing it in the theater, or possibly waiting for it to come out on DVD?

Jcomp
07-22-2012, 08:59 PM
Would you recommend seeing it in the theater, or possibly waiting for it to come out on DVD?

I'd say it's a personal decision. Based on what you've already mentioned about how you imagine the experience might be, it might be better for you to wait for DVD, but that's just a guess on my part. I'm actually going back this afternoon to see it again in theaters, but it's personal as to whether it's going to be something that affects you or not.

Michael Wolfe
07-23-2012, 12:42 AM
To be honest, I found myself making a connection not to Occupy Wallstreet, but to The French Revolution.

Same here. The parallels were striking, imo. I even tried to make a connection between the execution of Dr. Pavel and the execution of Antoine Lavoisier, although I suppose that might be stretching it a bit. :)

CQuinlan
07-23-2012, 04:18 AM
I'm not sure if anyone has said this yet but DON'T read the guardian's review unless you want to be told the entire plot of the movie.

Jcomp
07-23-2012, 06:17 AM
Yeah, I definitely got more of a French Revolution vibe from the movie. I figured that was an inspiration.

Celia Cyanide
07-23-2012, 06:35 AM
Diana mentioned the TSA agents, but I was wondering, did anyone else get an eerie feeling watching the movie after knowing about the attack?

I wanted to see this film in theaters before the shooting happened, but now I'm not so sure if I can do that. I'm not really worried about a copycat, just knowing where in the movie the real violence actually occured. How was it for you seeing the film? I'm sure all of the initial excitement from other movie goers died down and watching it would be a kind of sober affair. That's just what I'm thinking it might be like. Would you recommend seeing it in the theater, or possibly waiting for it to come out on DVD?

I would recommend seeing it in the theater. And I NEVER go to the theater. My brother says I am the only movie buff he knows who never goes to movies, but I hate people talking and tickets cost too much. This was totally worth it, though.

Celia Cyanide
07-23-2012, 06:37 AM
Seriously, it was, like, right above this one when you posted it. ;)

Diana Hignutt
07-23-2012, 02:18 PM
Diana mentioned the TSA agents, but I was wondering, did anyone else get an eerie feeling watching the movie after knowing about the attack?

I wanted to see this film in theaters before the shooting happened, but now I'm not so sure if I can do that. I'm not really worried about a copycat, just knowing where in the movie the real violence actually occured. How was it for you seeing the film? I'm sure all of the initial excitement from other movie goers died down and watching it would be a kind of sober affair. That's just what I'm thinking it might be like. Would you recommend seeing it in the theater, or possibly waiting for it to come out on DVD?

There was no decision for me, the theater was a must for me with this one, but, that said, and with the TSA agent there, when the shootout scenes came on screen, I was uncomfortable, and I could not help thinking about the victims of the horrendous tragedy...

Diana Hignutt
07-23-2012, 02:22 PM
I quite enjoyed it!

...though, is it just me, or was the movie rather conservative politically?

I thought it was quite anit-Illuminati. Remembering that the historical Illuminated Order of Bavarian Seers had a hand in fomenting the French Revolution.

I understand that Nolan admired Kubrick (who was also allegedly very anti-Illuminati, seen particularly Eyes Wide Shut).

Further, the film was somewhat anarchistic, in that even Jim Gordon was corrupt in his own way, only the vigilante was pure.

Manuel Royal
07-23-2012, 02:52 PM
It was MAGNIFICENT, but the uniformed TSA agent checking the theater we were in was a sobering reminder...Diana, are you sure the person you saw was a TSA employee? I started looking for other references to this, and found ... you, on another forum.

I really don't believe what you saw was an on-duty TSA employee performing some kind of security function in your local movie theater.

ETA: Bringing up the Illuminati doesn't help.

Liked the movie a lot. Christopher Nolan still, damn it, has some real problems directing action scenes. He does amazing things in amazing sets and locations, with non-CGI real objects and space (like flipping an 18-wheeler in The Dark Knight, or putting a freight train on a city street in Inception) and yet somehow it doesn't have the dramatic impact it should.

But, story-wise, the second half of the movie was epic.

Diana Hignutt
07-23-2012, 03:01 PM
Diana, are you sure the person you saw was a TSA employee? I started looking for other references to this, and found ... you, on another forum.

I really don't believe what you saw was an on-duty TSA employee performing some kind of security function in your local movie theater.

ETA: Bringing up the Illuminati doesn't help.

Liked the movie a lot. Christopher Nolan still, damn it, has some real problems directing action scenes. He does amazing things in amazing sets and locations, with non-CGI real objects and space (like flipping an 18-wheeler in The Dark Knight, or putting a freight train on a city street in Inception) and yet somehow it doesn't have the dramatic impact it should.

But, story-wise, the second half of the movie was epic.

Yes. I am sure. I was coming out of the restroom returning to the theater and he was coming out of it. Uniform. TAG: TSA. You're only alternative here is to call me a liar.

And trust me, a person doesn't have to be a fool to believe in a global conspiracy of the rich to keep control of the world, does one? Illuminati is just a name. Of course, I don't believe these people are actually members of the IOBS...I'm a romantic and it appeals to more more than other names.

Manuel Royal
07-23-2012, 03:33 PM
Yes. I am sure. I was coming out of the restroom returning to the theater and he was coming out of it. Uniform. TAG: TSA. Your only alternative here is to call me a liar.No, that's not my only alternative.

First, are you sure about the uniform? Did you recognize the new patch?

Second, did you ask the person whether he was on duty, and conducting a TSA operation at the theater? (People in uniforms do sometimes just go to the movies.)

I've never thought you were a liar, Diana. But, no, I don't believe what you believe you saw.


And trust me, a person doesn't have to be a fool to believe in a global conspiracy of the rich to keep control of the world, does one? Illuminati is just a name. Of course, I don't believe these people are actually members of the IOBS...I'm a romantic and it appeals to more more than other names.Well, it's a stupid name, and tends to make people dismiss anything following it as crackpot nonsense.

It's not an arcane, occult conspiracy. Just a lot of rich people who don't care about anyone else. Nobody "controls" the world. Some people control large amounts of money, an imaginary thing with a real effect.

Diana Hignutt
07-23-2012, 03:40 PM
No, that's not my only alternative.

First, are you sure about the uniform? Did you recognize the new patch?

Second, did you ask the person whether he was on duty, and conducting a TSA operation at the theater? (People in uniforms do sometimes just go to the movies.)

I've never thought you were a liar, Diana. But, no, I don't believe what you believe you saw.

Well, it's a stupid name, and tends to make people dismiss anything following it as crackpot nonsense.

It's not an arcane, occult conspiracy. Just a lot of rich people who don't care about anyone else. Nobody "controls" the world. Some people control large amounts of money, an imaginary thing with a real effect.

Yes, he could have kept his uniform on and just went to the movies...but he didn't look like it. Believe what you like.

And yes, the stupid name is best for my purposes...not being taken seriously (until its too late). It's already working.

ETA: Yes, we walked right past each other. Yes, I was just in an airport a month or so ago. Yes, it fucking said, TSA on his shirt. Yes, he could have been off duty.

Manuel Royal
07-23-2012, 06:22 PM
Yes, he could have kept his uniform on and just went to the movies...but he didn't look like it. Believe what you like.No, Diana, you're the one who believes what she likes; you've said before you sometimes temporarily adopt beliefs you know to be false. This may be okay for writing fiction -- I'd say it's an arguable idea -- but it's not helpful in discussions about reality.

I believe things about the real world based on evidence, and your anecdote just is not good evidence that the TSA is doing anything in movie theaters. It's not personal.

TSA employees are not security guards; they don't function that way. If the TSA were actually operating in movie theaters, they'd be at the entrance, controlling who enters, searching or at least questioning people. And we'd all know it was going on, because there'd be a big story about it.

ETA: I'm sure a lot of theaters are either getting extra police attention, or hiring private security guards or off-duty police officers. I read some are banning masks and costumes. So there goes one more form of harmless fun.

Stiger05
07-23-2012, 07:07 PM
Bringing this back on track....

Saw it last night and loved it. My favorite of the three so far, although I did get chills during the first shooting scene in the stock exchange wondering if that's when the shooter started his spree.

I love the despair the movie started with. Batman beaten and broken, mentally and physically. The criminals taking over. Anarchy. Then the hope that Bruce would rise, leading to the triumph at the end. It was the perfect end to the series.

Tom Hardy was an excellent Bane. The final fight scene between him and Batman, when Batman rips off the hose and Bane goes ballistic punching the column felt so real. I really thought Hardy was pissed at Bale right then and let it all out. Anne Hathaway was perfect, purrfect, as Catwoman. There were so many dimensions to Catwoman. I love that Hathaway kept the character grey, but what really sold me on her was the first scene when she steals the necklace. She goes from scared little maid to super slinky thief in seconds. Loved it.

JGL was, as always, fabulous. I disagree that you could have done without him. The entire movie was about how anyone can be Batman, obviously leading up to someone else taking on the role. John Blake was set up from his first scene with Bruce to take over--both orphans with the same anger and struggles and darkness but overall good, same desire to do something more, same underlying strength. I would love to see him in the role again.

As for the motivations behind the bad guys, it's the same as Batman Begins, continuing Ra's al Ghul's mission to destroy Gotham because of its decadence and corruption. Bane, of course, acted out of his love and loyalty to Talia, but Talia carried on her father's work. What more motivation are you looking for?

It wasn't as psychological as The Dark Knight, and there weren't as many fight scenes, but I didn't think there needed to be. This one came full circle and sealed it up for me. (Side note: I love how Nolan brought back Cillian Murphy and Liam Neeson, even for brief roles. Like I said, full circle).

Jcomp
07-23-2012, 07:21 PM
Tom Hardy was an excellent Bane. The final fight scene between him and Batman, when Batman rips off the hose and Bane goes ballistic punching the column felt so real. I really thought Hardy was pissed at Bale right then and let it all out.

I got chills during that part. You're right, something about his performance and the way that part was staged gave that moment a feel of realism that heightened the impact. I agree with Manuel that Nolan still doesn't direct his fight scenes / action scenes as well as he could overall, but that moment was executed brilliantly.

Sheryl Nantus
07-23-2012, 07:25 PM
ETA: Yes, we walked right past each other. Yes, I was just in an airport a month or so ago. Yes, it fucking said, TSA on his shirt. Yes, he could have been off duty.

Considering you don't like *anyone* wearing a uniform your comment isn't surprising.

When I worked security I often went to movies right after work without having the time to change. Didn't make me Illuminati or having any diabolical scheme other than not having the time or inclination to either drag a backpack of clothing with me and/or change.

Although I'm sure that if you *had* seen him changing and stuffing his uniform into a backpack you'd have gone into conspiracy heaven.

:D

TSA, security guards and police are like everyone else - sometimes they/we just want to see a movie.

jvc
07-23-2012, 08:21 PM
Okay, guys, this thread (and the Movie and TV forum) is for discussing the movie, there is another forum around here somewhere where you can discuss the other issues you've brought up.

Jehhillenberg
07-24-2012, 07:59 AM
FINALLY just saw and I love loved loved it. Pleased with the movie, especially the ending. I loved the throwbacks and references throughout the trilogy, like almost every villain came back in a way. I can understand why, but I hate the joker wasn't a part of it in any way. Was hesitant about Hathaway, but I enjoyed her a lot.

And even though it's comic book, the characters and stories were sorta reflective of the times with society...like an outlet for social commentary I guess. If I'm making any sense here. So I can see how others might have gotten a political bend or commentary from the movie there.

I just watched and enjoyed every minute of the entertainment, trying not to think about the theater shooting.


ETA: and I LOVED Joseph Gordon-Levitt!!!! Always :)

Celia Cyanide
07-24-2012, 05:09 PM
I got chills during that part. You're right, something about his performance and the way that part was staged gave that moment a feel of realism that heightened the impact.

You know what else I loved about that moment? That I always HATED that moment in the comic and animated series. That moment was always what prevented me from liking Bane very much as a villain. Nolan did it really well.

Could we get a spoiler warning in the thread title so that we can discuss the movie without the white text?

karo.ambrose
07-24-2012, 11:53 PM
saw it again in imax today and yeah, i effing loved it. it was awesome. batman was awesome. bane was awesome. the story was awesome.

as you can see, i was destined to write in depth movie reviews.

it's just... gah. so glad to see that movie bring the story full circle.

i'm really glad there wasn't even a mentioning of the joker. nolan said that ledger's death was a personal tragedy, and he didn't want to even make a nod toward something so affecting. which imo, was a classy move.

prolly going to see it again tomorrow...

Jcomp
07-25-2012, 12:24 AM
I'm wondering if Warner Brothers will actually try to develop a sequel with JGL as the heir to the Bat-mantle.

Kyla Laufreyson
07-25-2012, 03:56 AM
Just got home from my second viewing...yeah, totally going back again next week. I have this weird feeling I'm going to see it every week until it leaves theaters.

Celia Cyanide
07-25-2012, 04:25 AM
i'm really glad there wasn't even a mentioning of the joker. nolan said that ledger's death was a personal tragedy, and he didn't want to even make a nod toward something so affecting. which imo, was a classy move.

I thought so too...and for some reason, it worked well in the story that they didn't talk about him. They talked about Dent, and how they felt about him. Considering what the Joker had done to Dent, it was somehow fitting that they didn't want to mention him at all.

I'm glad you liked it the second time!

Jcomp
07-25-2012, 11:06 AM
Just got back from my second viewing. Saw it in IMAX. The last 15 minutes or so gave me just about the same chills as they did the first time around. Although I'm still not sure at what point Bruce apparently ejected (or teleported or what have you) out of the Bat-Hover-Copter before the bomb went off.

K. Taylor
07-25-2012, 11:32 AM
My theory is around the time the Bat goes through the one building to reach the bay. After that he's over water, which isn't the best idea in the suit.

Jcomp
07-25-2012, 06:45 PM
My theory is around the time the Bat goes through the one building to reach the bay. After that he's over water, which isn't the best idea in the suit.

That's what I'm guessing. And at least one of the shots of Batman before the bomb goes off is a close-up that, in context, suggests he's still on board and contemplating his impending death, but that could be a swerve. He could already have ejected by then and is just observing from the Bat Escape Pod or what have you. It's one of those "Nolan eschews clarity for style points" moments, but it's not a big deal. Just something I was wondering about.

Stiger05
07-25-2012, 09:35 PM
I've wondered the same thing. It's the one part of the movie that bothered me (okay, I guess the second part. Bane flying Bruce all the way to the Middle East or wherever to drop him in a hole with a tv and then flying back to blow up Gotham bothered me too, but I got over it).

I kept imagining Bruce bailing over the water, but it makes more sense if he ejected over the buildings. I know he's Batman and all, but I couldn't wrap my mind around how he would escape the nuclear fallout if he ejected so close to the bomb (it would still effect the city, but whatever, I'll suspend my disbelief).

karo.ambrose
07-25-2012, 10:34 PM
yes, i definitely was left with a few questions as well.

like, as batman was flying the bat toward the ocean, he fires a shot at a building and blows it up. why did he do that? i couldn't find any reason for that action.

also... how does bane eat? does he have to take the mask off and get really pissed while he's eating his sandwich?

i like to imagine what these supervillains do when they're not being supervillains. i mean, there are twenty four hours in a day, yanno? like, could you ever imagine the joker sleeping? or going to the bathroom?

...

do you think he wipes?

/important questions

karo.ambrose
07-25-2012, 10:44 PM
I thought so too...and for some reason, it worked well in the story that they didn't talk about him. They talked about Dent, and how they felt about him. Considering what the Joker had done to Dent, it was somehow fitting that they didn't want to mention him at all.

I'm glad you liked it the second time!

it also makes sense because the joker was a very ghostlike figure in tdk. he just kind of appears with no history, no name, no nothing. so it would be fitting that he would leave in the same way.

i think when they inevitably reboot the franchise, they should take the series in a different direction, because no one will be able to out-nolan christopher nolan. it would be nice to see a very classic element in a new series. like, have gotham set in the 1920's or 30's and embrace the comic books' origins.

Jcomp
07-25-2012, 10:57 PM
like, as batman was flying the bat toward the ocean, he fires a shot at a building and blows it up. why did he do that? i couldn't find any reason for that action.


Well, for this one, it looked to me like the Bat was having trouble getting elevation, and he blew up the building that was in his way to clear some space. Was anyone living in that building at the time? One of those "superhero collateral damage" things that directors never want us to think about.

As to the other important questions you pose... we can only wonder..

karo.ambrose
07-25-2012, 11:06 PM
haha, yeah. batman is adamantly opposed to handguns, but not so much with blowing up entire buildings with missiles.

in regards to superheroes, gotham takes what they can get, i suppose.

K. Taylor
07-26-2012, 12:23 AM
Well, for this one, it looked to me like the Bat was having trouble getting elevation, and he blew up the building that was in his way to clear some space. Was anyone living in that building at the time? One of those "superhero collateral damage" things that directors never want us to think about.

As to the other important questions you pose... we can only wonder..

It was an office building, so less likely to have occupants.

Blast radius from the nuke would've been 6 miles-ish, so it had to be at least that far from the city.

Celia Cyanide
07-26-2012, 04:58 AM
also... how does bane eat?

In all seriousness, I had always pictured him using an IV.

J.S.F.
07-26-2012, 06:26 AM
Saw it last night and really, really liked it. Pros: has plenty of action, fine performances (although Bane was a little hard to hear at times) and a solid script that played out the human drama as well as delivering the action we all love. Excellent special effects. Upbeat ending.

Cons: Lots of new characters introduced that casual fans might not know from the comics/cartoons. A bit overlong. They could have cut ten to fifteen minutes and still retained the meat of the flick.

Why didn't they show Batman ejecting over water. Because he's BATMAN, that's why! The close-up on his face--especially since he was wounded--and then the cut to the Bat-plane going out over the ocean was a classic swerve on the part of the filmmakers but it was a good one. Batman will ALWAYS get out of tight situations...because he's Batman. Four point five out of five stars.

Side-note: Initially I had the same reservations about Anne Hathaway as a lot of others did. Glad to see I was wrong. She does the part justice.

jvc
07-26-2012, 09:48 AM
Could we get a spoiler warning in the thread title so that we can discuss the movie without the white text?
Your wish is my command. Spoiler warning added to the thread title. :)

And thought I'd do some housekeeping, so I merged the other Dark Knight Rises thread into this one. Totally exhausted now. Need a nap.

Stiger05
07-26-2012, 07:49 PM
Going back to the discussion of the movie's themes/symbolism (i.e. French Revolution, Occupy movement, conservatism) here's an interesting article: The Dickensian Aspects of The Dark Knight Rises (http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2012/07/21/the_dark_knight_rises_inspired_by_a_tale_of_two_ci ties_the_parts_that_draw_from_dickens_.html).


When director Christopher Nolan and his brother and screenwriter Jonathan Nolan revealed that The Dark Knight Rises was inspired by A Tale of Two Cities (http://www.comingsoon.net/news/movienews.php?id=92305), the Internet lit up with speculation. Would Batman growl about Gotham’s best of times, and worst of times?
But the scenes that most boldly evoke A Tale of Two Cities—along with, of course, the novel’s basis in the history of the French Revolution—are the scenes of its vengeful populist uprising.Just thought some of you might be interested. From the article, it seems those seeing the French Revolution in the movie were more on point.

karo.ambrose
07-27-2012, 12:29 AM
From the article, it seems those seeing the French Revolution in the movie were more on point.

i heard nolan say that bane's coat was inspired by the french revolution.

http://moviesmedia.ign.com/movies/image/article/122/1220121/480-the-dark-knight-rises-20111221000535242_1331061997.jpg

Jehhillenberg
07-27-2012, 01:34 AM
My God, Tom Hardy was phenomenal as Bane! I barely recognized him and that VOICE. WTF? But I loved it and it indeed made the character darker. Half the cast of Inception was in this movie :)

Rhoda Nightingale
07-27-2012, 08:31 AM
Saw it yesterday, and found it good. Not perfect, but very, very good. Man, I forgot how much I love Bruce Wayne/Batman as a character. Nolan and Bale bring that out of him so well.

Jcomp
07-27-2012, 06:37 PM
So... went to see it with my fam last night, so that makes for a third viewing, and now I'm picking up on some of the little details. Like the other films, there are some definite gaps in logic and plot, but the stuff they get right makes up for it, in my view. Early in the movie, Miranda / Talia makes a comment about "restoring balance" to society, which was Ra's mantra in Begins, and something he mentions again in his hallucinatory appearance in Rises. Nice foreshadowing of her true identity, I think.

I also like how she chastises Daggett early about how he thinks money buys him power, then later, before Bane kills him, Daggett makes mention that he's paid Bane a small fortune. Bane's response: "And you think this gives you power over me?"

Still don't like Alfred's speech about Bane. Sounds too much like they were trying to replicate the speech he made about The Joker. Other than that, thought they made pretty good use of him early, just wish we'd known what the heck was going on with him during the "occupation" of Gotham City.

The only thing that I really dislike about the ending is that it probably means we'll never see Hathaway in a Catwoman movie. Maybe they can do a prequel. I really think she knocked this role out of the park. You have to be a lot of things to be a good Catwoman, and she does it all. She plays false-innocence well; she plays sly and sneaky well; she plays emotionally guarded and wounded well; she plays the assertiveness well. And she sells the hell out of the violence. She covers every base. I thought she was brilliant.

SirOtter
07-28-2012, 09:55 AM
Watched it, reviewed (http://korsgaardscommentary.blogspot.com/2012/07/the-dark-knight-rises.html) it... much to my suprise, thought it was awful. Very bloated, suprisingly dull, and the plot was very predictable and riddled with plot holes.

What about the rest of you?

I was really looking forward to this one, even though I thought Dark Knight was an ungodly mess of a film, apart from Ledger, and possibly the most over-rated film of the past twenty years. Alas, I agree with almost every point you made in your review. The whole first third was like an extended pre-credit sequence from a Law & Order TV show, and the rest had a cobbled together feel that actually served to distract me, through annoyance, from figuring out Cotillard was Talia. Which may have been Nolan's plan all along. Also, I found Bane's voice difficult to understand, which didn't help.

The one bright spot was Hathaway's Catwoman. I've not been that impressed by her before, but she flat nailed it.

Celia Cyanide
07-28-2012, 12:38 PM
The only thing that I really dislike about the ending is that it probably means we'll never see Hathaway in a Catwoman movie. Maybe they can do a prequel. I really think she knocked this role out of the park. You have to be a lot of things to be a good Catwoman, and she does it all. She plays false-innocence well; she plays sly and sneaky well; she plays emotionally guarded and wounded well; she plays the assertiveness well. And she sells the hell out of the violence. She covers every base. I thought she was brilliant.

Me too. I really don't understand why people thought she couldn't do it.

J.S.F.
07-28-2012, 05:06 PM
Me too. I really don't understand why people thought she couldn't do it.

-----

Maybe some of the crowd compared her to Michelle 'Phabulous' Pheiffer from the sequel to the 80's version. Truthfully, at first I didn't think she could get into the part but it was all hers. At turns she was seductive, catty, witty, dangerous, and more, and yes, it helps she's very pretty. But the big thing is she made the part her own without ever veering even close to parodying a role that could have been destroyed by a lesser actress. I give her two paws up all the way.

Manuel Royal
07-28-2012, 06:27 PM
I thought so too...and for some reason, it worked well in the story that they didn't talk about him. They talked about Dent, and how they felt about him. Considering what the Joker had done to Dent, it was somehow fitting that they didn't want to mention him at all.

I'm glad you liked it the second time!
I was a little disappointed they didn't bust open Arkham Asylum as well as Blackgate -- but, first, that would have made it almost impossible not to bring up the Joker, and second, that could have been a whole movie in itself.

I thought Anne Hathaway did great. Now, I'd always been against the idea of Catwoman wearing high heels. Just seemed impractical, given all the acrobatics, climbing around and such. But she made good use of them (and one must remember the DC comics convention that if a character -- hero, villain, or in-between like Catwoman -- commits to a piece of equipment, they'll be insanely skilled with it).

SirOtter
07-28-2012, 10:13 PM
I was a little disappointed they didn't bust open Arkham Asylum as well as Blackgate

They apparently ducked into Arkham long enough to liberate Dr. Jonathan Crane. Why they left Edward Nigma, Oswald Cobblepot and Jervis Tetch behind, I have no idea, never mind the Joker. Too much competition for the guy with the worst imitation Sean Connery accent on the planet, maybe?

Celia Cyanide
07-28-2012, 11:17 PM
They apparently ducked into Arkham long enough to liberate Dr. Jonathan Crane. Why they left Edward Nigma, Oswald Cobblepot and Jervis Tetch behind, I have no idea, never mind the Joker.

Assuming they even exist as villains in this universe yet, Oswald Cobblepot wouldn't even be there. He's not criminally insane. He goes to jail, not Arkham.

DavidBrett
07-29-2012, 09:34 PM
I'm a huge Batman fan, and I liked the movie a lot, but I was sad that Nolan had stepped so far away from the conventional Batman lore. I'm not saying he should have followed the previous comics stories or anything, that would have been horribly boring, but as long-time fans we sort of expect them to take familiar ground and twist it with a new and fresh touch. Nolan did this with the first two movies, they had tons of elements that long time Batman fans found very familar, while also separting the stories and characters into their own unique entities. This movie though, he just seemed like he moved too far away from the traditional lore and offered very little lore-based content. If that makes sense.

That don't make any sense to me - you say you're a long-time fan of the comics, and yet you didn't even get the obvious 'Knightfall' story parallels? Hell, Bane even finishes Batman with a back-breaker!

And when Bane takes over Gotham, you have a 'No Man's Land' vibe going on (without the Joker, obviously). And Bane WAS a part of the League of Shadows, bodyguarding Ra's and Talia until he left and was replaced by the subservient Abu.

What else... Oh, of course! Bruce and Tate/Talia have a passionate night. Could this possibly hint at the conception of Daniel Al Ghul, the current Robin?

And, needless to say, Batman and Catwoman have ALWAYS had an 'on again/off again' thing going on...

Anyways, personally I LOVED this movie - my girlfriend took me to see it last week and I'm STILL buzzing from it. I'm planning to watch out again with my best friend on Wednesday.

Dave

Darkshore
07-29-2012, 10:32 PM
Saw it last night and absolutely loved it. If they reboot this series for a Justice League friendly Batman, I have no idea how they will live up to this trilogy.

DavidBrett
07-29-2012, 11:25 PM
Well, the Justice League movie has a date of '????', whereas the planned Batman reboot is set for 2015. If they were planning to bring in Batman to JL, chances are it will be after the reboot.

Dunno if 'The Man of Steel' will be the start of the JL connections, though...

Celia Cyanide
07-30-2012, 02:37 AM
What else... Oh, of course! Bruce and Tate/Talia have a passionate night. Could this possibly hint at the conception of Daniel Al Ghul, the current Robin?

Damien Wayne. But yeah, if she didn't die, I thought that was what would happen.

I thought it was interesting how the whole movie had the entire arc of Bruce's relationship with Catwoman, and kind of the whole arc of his relationship with Talia, just happening all at once.

DavidBrett
07-30-2012, 03:01 PM
Bah, Damien-Daniel, I was close. I'm more of a Marvel guy when it comes to character names...

Diana Hignutt
07-30-2012, 03:34 PM
They apparently ducked into Arkham long enough to liberate Dr. Jonathan Crane. Why they left Edward Nigma, Oswald Cobblepot and Jervis Tetch behind, I have no idea, never mind the Joker. Too much competition for the guy with the worst imitation Sean Connery accent on the planet, maybe?

Dr. Crane was an associate of the League of Shadows in BB, and come on, Cillian Murphy was the only villain to make all three movies, which was a treat. Five actors from Inception by my count.

Celia Cyanide
07-30-2012, 04:45 PM
The Joker is not someone those people would have wanted around, anyway. He is not one of them, and he is uncontrollable.

Manuel Royal
07-30-2012, 09:02 PM
Assuming they even exist as villains in this universe yet, Oswald Cobblepot wouldn't even be there. He's not criminally insane. He goes to jail, not Arkham.I thought that was also true for Dr. Crane/Scarecrow. Hate to think of a boy that pretty going to prison. On the other hand, with his brains and skill at psychological manipulation, he probably did okay. And then he got to be Judge Judy and executioner.

Jcomp
07-31-2012, 01:44 AM
I thought that was also true for Dr. Crane/Scarecrow. Hate to think of a boy that pretty going to prison. On the other hand, with his brains and skill at psychological manipulation, he probably did okay. And then he got to be Judge Judy and executioner.

With Crane, he could have been reassigned to Blackgate after escaping Arkham at the end of Batman Begins, then being reapprehended as a drug dealer at the beginning of The Dark Knight.

Celia Cyanide
07-31-2012, 04:50 AM
I thought that was also true for Dr. Crane/Scarecrow. Hate to think of a boy that pretty going to prison.

Nope. Crane is Batshit. He goes to Arkham. But we don't really know what became of him after Batman caught him in TDK.

karo.ambrose
07-31-2012, 04:54 AM
Judge Judy and executioner.

lolled.

nighttimer
08-01-2012, 05:20 AM
I was really looking forward to this one, even though I thought Dark Knight was an ungodly mess of a film, apart from Ledger, and possibly the most over-rated film of the past twenty years. Alas, I agree with almost every point you made in your review. The whole first third was like an extended pre-credit sequence from a Law & Order TV show, and the rest had a cobbled together feel that actually served to distract me, through annoyance, from figuring out Cotillard was Talia. Which may have been Nolan's plan all along. Also, I found Bane's voice difficult to understand, which didn't help.

The one bright spot was Hathaway's Catwoman. I've not been that impressed by her before, but she flat nailed it.

Much the same as Scarlett Johansson gained a lot more respect in her depiction of the Black Widow. There is apparently a certain increase in gravitas for actresses when they wiggle into leather rompers.

I didn't so much review the flick as I commented (http://jeffwinbush.com/2012/07/31/the-dark-knight-rises-but-falls-short-of-greatness/) on it without spoilers, and long story short, here's what I concluded:

Good things about The Dark Knight Rises: Christian Bale suffers well. Anne Hardaway and Marion Cotilliard are major assets as much as Maggie Gyllenhaal and Katie Holmes were major whiffs. Gary Oldman is the underrated link between all three pictures. The big set pieces (and the third act is nothing but big set pieces) work great. Nolan is on top of his game here. The movie is ambitious and it delivers on most of its ambitions.


Bad things about The Dark Knight Rises: Tom Hardy had the thankless task of following Ledger’s performance and while he bulked up physically to play Bane, he can’t make him an interesting character or foe. Hans Zimmer’s score got on my nerves. Nolan still hasn’t figured out how to choreograph a convincing fight scenes. Almost all the “surprises” aren’t surprising at all. There are too many scenes that “tell” instead of “show” and raise questions of “Wait…how did that happen?” There is just too much going on in a movie that goes on too long at two hours and 45 minutes.


It's unfair to compare The Dark Knight Rises with The Avengers, but there's one thing I will say with complete certainty. You can walk into The Avengers without having seen any of the preceding Marvel movies and pick up on what is going on pretty easily. You have to had seen Batman Begins and The Dark Knight to understand what all the callbacks in The Dark Knight Rises are about.


I'd give the movie a B-. Good, but nowhere near great.

Diana Hignutt
08-01-2012, 03:24 PM
With Crane, he could have been reassigned to Blackgate after escaping Arkham at the end of Batman Begins, then being reapprehended as a drug dealer at the beginning of The Dark Knight.

I'm still wondering how he had any success as a drug dealer. I imagine this scenario:

Druggie #1: Man, I' f-ing Jonesin.

Druggie #2: Yeah, but the Bat's closed everybody down, Man.

Druggie #1: The Scarecrow still has some shit.

Druggie #2: Dude, that shit is a bad trip.

Druggie #1: Yeah, but it still gets you off like gangbusters.

Celia Cyanide
08-01-2012, 05:15 PM
Did you see the extra features on The Dark Knight? What am I saying, of course you did...anyway...

For those who haven't, there was a great bit on Gotham Tonight, the show hosted by Anthony Michael Hall. It was a news story about a teenager who was given The Scarecrow's compound. When I watched it, it occurred to me that we do see things like that happening in real life. People buy certain drugs, like PCP, even though they can't be any fun, and are more like a nightmare.

Crane probably sold a lot of that stuff.

Stiger05
08-01-2012, 06:31 PM
Did you see the extra features on The Dark Knight? What am I saying, of course you did...anyway...

For those who haven't, there was a great bit on Gotham Tonight, the show hosted by Anthony Michael Hall. It was a news story about a teenager who was given The Scarecrow's compound. When I watched it, it occurred to me that we do see things like that happening in real life. People buy certain drugs, like PCP, even though they can't be any fun, and are more like a nightmare.

Crane probably sold a lot of that stuff.

Bath salts. 'Nuff said.

karo.ambrose
08-01-2012, 09:59 PM
having just finished the novelization of tdkr, i can now say that my biggest gripes with the movie are cinematic and not narrative. the story is very solid and with far less plot holes than what appeared on screen. a lot of things were lost in murky dialogue and scenes that happen much too fast, which i think is a recurring problem with nolan movies. but thematically, the story arc is structured very well for the universe that nolan created. like how the theme in begins centered around 'fear,' and dark knight embodied 'escalation' (or some may argue 'chaos'), rises really structures its story around 'hope.'

i really like how both the antagonists and protagonists consistently utilize these themes for their own ends.

scarecrow and ras al ghul utilized the flower extract to create a fear-inducing toxin. batman utilized fear to become a symbol to criminals.

the joker escalated his murderous deeds to bring gotham into chaos, forcing batman to respond with increasingly controversial and morally questionable tactics.

bane "weaponized" hope to make the people of gotham think they had a chance to survive his nuclear bomb, and batman took on bane's words and became that very hope he hoped to crush.

or something. and yeah, a lot of those themes cross over into the other movies. there's fear in rises, hope in begins, etc etc. not saying my argument is ironclad, i just like talking about batman.

...

on another note, i wholly agree that nolan's fight scenes definitely could use work. they're not convincing.

Jcomp
08-01-2012, 10:38 PM
having just finished the novelization of tdkr, i can now say that my biggest gripes with the movie are cinematic and not narrative. the story is very solid and with far less plot holes than what appeared on screen. a lot of things were lost in murky dialogue and scenes that happen much too fast, which i think is a recurring problem with nolan movies. but thematically, the story arc is structured very well for the universe that nolan created. like how the theme in begins centered around 'fear,' and dark knight embodied 'escalation' (or some may argue 'chaos'), rises really structures its story around 'hope.'

i really like how both the antagonists and protagonists consistently utilize these themes for their own ends.

scarecrow and ras al ghul utilized the flower extract to create a fear-inducing toxin. batman utilized fear to become a symbol to criminals.

the joker escalated his murderous deeds to bring gotham into chaos, forcing batman to respond with increasingly controversial and morally questionable tactics.

bane "weaponized" hope to make the people of gotham think they had a chance to survive his nuclear bomb, and batman took on bane's words and became that very hope he hoped to crush.

or something. and yeah, a lot of those themes cross over into the other movies. there's fear in rises, hope in begins, etc etc. not saying my argument is ironclad, i just like talking about batman.

This makes sense. It also means that some of the final words in Begins and TDK lead directly into the theme of the next movie. Like you mentioned, in Begins he speaks directly about escalation. In TDK he says of Harvey's death and ultimate corruption, "People will lose hope." He and Batman conspire to lionize Harvey to keep Gotham's hope alive, so people can have their "faith rewarded," as Batman says. Then it comes apart in Rises because it's built on a lie. Bane specifically mentions that his prison keeps the well open for climbing out because it's also a false hope, and that is meant to magnify the despair of the prisoners. He plans the same thing for Gotham, so he can torture Bruce. So on and so forth.

I also agree that the pacing of the film (and the effort to cram so much material into relatively little time) is a much bigger hindrance than the actual plot. Many of the "plot holes" people bring up... eh. I didn't ask "how did Batman get back into Gotham from an overseas prison," just like I didn't ask "how did Batman get a plane to fly over Hong Kong and use it to kidnap a prominent business mogul without it showing up on radar and being taken down damn near immediatley," or "how did the Joker plant explosives everywhere he wanted to all movie long with no one detecting him." It's still a comic book film franchise featuring a ninja superhero who uses future-tech to fight crime, after all.


on another note, i wholly agree that nolan's fight scenes definitely could use work. they're not convincing.

Upon re-watching, the first fight between Bane and Batman is both exhilirating and frustrating. Hardy in interviews talked about how "brutal" Bane's fighting style was, but it doesn't really come through too often, except for the one shot where he gives Bruce about four consecutive kidney punches, but even that's too close-up to get a good look at what's going on.

maxmordon
08-02-2012, 07:17 AM
I saw it today and to be honest, I felt a bit disappointed. I felt it was a bit sketchy at times (So a worldwide and penniless celebrity just happens to travel back and forth between Gotham and a hellhole in middle of the desert? Or was the entire thing a hallucination? And a city of the size and importance of NYC just gets cut from the entire world for months just as easy and people did nothing?)

There was of course, the Henchman Question. Namely, Bane's army came up, as I assume, from disgrunted, unemployed lower classes fed up from economical injustices in this day and age. Nonetheless, they felt too malleable. I assume they didn't joined Bane because they face serious personal situations and caught in the frenzy feeling this was their only solution. Now, I doubt feelings will get any better for them now that a third of Gotham is destroyed and they probably will face criminal charges and some of them won't let the revolution die out. Of course, this all goes to the politics of the movie, which made me uncomfortable: Social change is not possible unless a few pure, strong-willed and intelligent individuals lead and give hope to the poor, uncultured masses. Though the hammer swings both ways, the whole "Dent Act" bit was quite like common views of "The PATRIOT Act" (I don't live in the US, so I can't tell), but if we follow the train of thought of Batman-as-War-On-Terror-analogy, it fits having Harvey Dent as a "justified evil".

And don't get me start with the ending. Just because a nuclar bomb explodes in front of Gotham doesn't mean they won't get affected by radiation. And the whole thing of Bruce and Selina in a café in Florence just happening to stumble upon Alfred is just too cheesy and overdone. I expected far more from the trilogy.

Speaking of cultural references. Anyone remembers The Sewer King (http://batman.wikia.com/wiki/Sewer_King) from Batman: The Animated Series? Bane using orphans and having his base on the sewers makes me think it may have been a shout out to him.

Also, the whole mock trials made me think more of Bertolucci's Novecento. Which in turn was based on the Chinese Revolution, whereas former peasants would trial and execute the wealthy landowners. The whole take of Gotham was, of course, The Paris Commune (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Commune) set in not-quite-NYC-not-quite-Chicago-never-Detroit Gotham.

Also, something that bugs me. Why Gotham looks so nice? I mean, remember Batman Begins where it was so Detroit and now it looks like NYC. Where, you know, there's crime and poverty but not to make a putsch believable.

maxmordon
08-02-2012, 07:18 AM
Something weird, there were only ten people in the theater at a 4 PM screening. Guess it won't be getting much from overseas screenings?

Celia Cyanide
08-02-2012, 07:30 AM
I also agree that the pacing of the film (and the effort to cram so much material into relatively little time) is a much bigger hindrance than the actual plot. Many of the "plot holes" people bring up... eh. I didn't ask "how did Batman get back into Gotham from an overseas prison," just like I didn't ask "how did Batman get a plane to fly over Hong Kong and use it to kidnap a prominent business mogul without it showing up on radar and being taken down damn near immediatley," or "how did the Joker plant explosives everywhere he wanted to all movie long with no one detecting him." It's still a comic book film franchise featuring a ninja superhero who uses future-tech to fight crime, after all.

The answer is, quite often, "because he's Batman." ;)

karo.ambrose
08-02-2012, 08:47 AM
I saw it today and to be honest, I felt a bit disappointed. I felt it was a bit sketchy at times (So a worldwide and penniless celebrity just happens to travel back and forth between Gotham and a hellhole in middle of the desert? Or was the entire thing a hallucination?

like celia so eloquently put it, he's batman.


And a city of the size and importance of NYC just gets cut from the entire world for months just as easy and people did nothing?)

if anyone did anything, bane detonated the bomb. and it wasn't "easy." bane had been planning for months, maybe even years employing the unemployed underground rigging the charges that would cut off gotham from the rest of the world, getting in bed with Daggett, the CEO of a cement company who owned various rights to gotham's underworld.


There was of course, the Henchman Question. Namely, Bane's army came up, as I assume, from disgrunted, unemployed lower classes fed up from economical injustices in this day and age.

he broke them out of prison. they were prisoners who were sent to Blackwood without parole under the harvey dent act, who bane revealed to be a false prophet. so it wasn't like they were regular citizens. a lot of them were probably the joker's henchmen, i'm theorizing.


Of course, this all goes to the politics of the movie, which made me uncomfortable: Social change is not possible unless a few pure, strong-willed and intelligent individuals lead and give hope to the poor, uncultured masses. Though the hammer swings both ways, the whole "Dent Act" bit was quite like common views of "The PATRIOT Act" (I don't live in the US, so I can't tell), but if we follow the train of thought of Batman-as-War-On-Terror-analogy, it fits having Harvey Dent as a "justified evil".

basically, my take on the politics in batman movies is this: gotham is fucked up. always has been, always will. i really don't think nolan was trying to convey some kind of political message, but rather he was trying to tell a story. and the message was inconsistent because people are inconsistent. i really liked the moral ambiguity achieved. at times it appears the police are the bad guys and the common people are the good guys. and at other times, it's vice versa. for the universe established by the comic books and the movies, it rings true to me.


And don't get me start with the ending. Just because a nuclar bomb explodes in front of Gotham doesn't mean they won't get affected by radiation.

well, if gotham is geographically situated like NYC is, then they have eastern prevailing winds, blowing the radiation out to sea.

*adjusts spectacles*


And the whole thing of Bruce and Selina in a café in Florence just happening to stumble upon Alfred is just too cheesy and overdone. I expected far more from the trilogy.

probably the most divisive moment of the movie, nay the entire trilogy. when i first saw the movie, i did a little eyeroll. i was all, oh no you di-int. but bruce wayne got to live. it's a redeeming moment that maybe he could have a normal life with... catwoman. idk, i actually liked it upon the second viewing.

but i'm partial. i'm about to get a tramp stamp that says "why so serious?"

...

only not really.

maxmordon
08-02-2012, 10:10 AM
You have a point, but the truth is that when I watched The Dark Knight, I held my pee for almost an hour. I even considered using the cup. With The Dark Knight Rises, there were moments where I almost left the room just because of how indifferent I felt about it.

Parametric
08-02-2012, 01:56 PM
And the whole thing of Bruce and Selina in a café in Florence just happening to stumble upon Alfred is just too cheesy and overdone. I expected far more from the trilogy.

It wasn't a coincidence. Alfred told Bruce that he used to go to the same cafe every Friday afternoon hoping that he'd see Bruce there. Bruce went there so that Alfred would know he'd made it.

Rhoda Nightingale
08-02-2012, 03:15 PM
The bit in the cafe bothered me just a little as well--just because it flipped me brain to see Bruce and Selina out on something as normal as a date, y'know? It was...weird. I get why they wrote it that way, and it made sense for the story, but I did do some headscratching.

karo.ambrose
08-02-2012, 03:39 PM
this was one part of the story that i completely missed in the movie. this is from the novelization:

"I lost someone once," Batman said. A hint of sorrow infiltrated his raspy growl. "Since then I break into their homes when they're sleeping and implant a tracking device on the back of their neck."

Right, Blake thought, chuckling. Then he reached back and felt the nape of his own neck. Was it just his imagination or was there a tiny lump of scar tissue there?

does anyone remember this from the movie? when i read the book i was all :O. i remember miranda had a bat-shaped scar on her back when they were laying by the fireplace, but i thought it was a reference to league of shadows and not something batman implanted in her.

way to be a creeper, batman.

Stiger05
08-02-2012, 06:04 PM
this was one part of the story that i completely missed in the movie. this is from the novelization:

"I lost someone once," Batman said. A hint of sorrow infiltrated his raspy growl. "Since then I break into their homes when they're sleeping and implant a tracking device on the back of their neck."

Right, Blake thought, chuckling. Then he reached back and felt the nape of his own neck. Was it just his imagination or was there a tiny lump of scar tissue there?

does anyone remember this from the movie? when i read the book i was all :O. i remember miranda had a bat-shaped scar on her back when they were laying by the fireplace, but i thought it was a reference to league of shadows and not something batman implanted in her.

way to be a creeper, batman.

I don't recall the second part of Batman's line. I remember him saying "I lost someone once," although now I can't remember if it was to Blake or what, but he looked at the picture of Rachel. When Blake was talking to Bruce at Wayne Manor he might have rubbed his neck, though--I seem to recall that--so maybe it alluded to the line in the novelization?

Nonetheless, creeper indeed.

Jcomp
08-02-2012, 06:54 PM
Something weird, there were only ten people in the theater at a 4 PM screening. Guess it won't be getting much from overseas screenings?

Nah, it's already pulled in $250 million overseas and hasn't been released in every market yet. It'll do well overseas. It's not going to put up Avengers or TDK numbers, but it's still going to put up a ridiculously profitable box office.

I didn't mind the bit in the cafe because, as others have mentioned, it was a call-back to Alfred's earlier comment. Bruce deliberately went to that cafe to see Alfred and let him know he was alive.

nighttimer
08-04-2012, 12:38 PM
Here's an article with links (http://blogs.indiewire.com/criticwire/nitpicking-the-dark-knight-rises-nitpickers) to various stories critiquing (or nitpicking) the various shortcomings, flaws, head-scratching questions and unresolved issues of The Dark Knight Rises. :Huh:



. If you like when people pick apart movies, this week was like Christmas, Hannukah, Kwanzaa and your birthday all rolled into one. You could enjoy "15 Things That Bothered Us About 'The Dark Knight Rises,'" (http://www.slashfilm.com/15-bothered-the-dark-knight-rises/) or if that was too much of a commitment you could settle for "11 Things That Didn't Work in 'The Dark Knight Rises' (http://www.filmschoolrejects.com/features/11-things-that-didnt-work-in-the-dark-knight-rises-rfure.php)" (or, if you were really in a rush, you could try "9 Logical Gripes With 'The Dark Knight Rises' (http://movieline.com/2012/07/23/dark-knight-rises-plot-holes-9-logical-problems/)"). If you were feeling more inquisitive, you could partake of "12 Questions We Had After Watching 'The Dark Knight Rises' (http://www.movies.com/movie-news/dark-knight-rises-questions/8858)" or "'The Dark Knight Rises': 7 Lingering Questions (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mike-ryan/the-dark-knight-rises-7-lingering-questions_b_1695014.html)" or "'The Dark Knight Rises': 5 Unanswered Questions (http://www.accesshollywood.com/the-dark-knight-rises-5-unanswered-questions_article_67558)." And on and on and on.

OC-138
08-04-2012, 01:40 PM
I loved the movie. I can understand that people didnt like it but I thought it was great. It had more heart than the Avengers which was what i was looking for.

pandaponies
08-04-2012, 05:50 PM
I thought the same thing about the radiation :p but I'm USUALLY one of the people who's willing to look the other way.

*shuffles feet; shifty eyes* I liked the cafe scene... >___> I thought it was cute...

nighttimer
08-05-2012, 12:14 AM
The plot holes, lapses in logic, unanswered questions and WTF moments of The Dark Knight Rises proves Tom Clancy was dead on when he said, "The difference between reality and fiction? Fiction has to make sense."

Much of TDR doesn't and that prevents me from fully enjoying it. :e2shrug:

OC-138
08-05-2012, 07:43 AM
I never see plot holes in movies unless they are glaringly obvious. I suppose I just sit there and enjoy something that I like without trying to pick it apart.

maxmordon
08-05-2012, 07:58 AM
I really don't accept the answer that "Well, it's Batman" Simply because Nolan has risen the standard in which we'll be measuring superhero movies. It's not a mere superhero movie; it's a personal epic of a man trying to save the world while not being able to save himself.

You know what I was thinking. Could the bit in the Café be some sort of Dream/Afterlife space of Alfred imagining Master Bruce finally finding a peace of some sort?

OC-138
08-05-2012, 08:16 AM
I dont think so.

I am pretty sure that scene is meant to be taken at face value. Bruce went there specifically to let Alfred know he was ok and finally living a happy life just like Alfred wanted for him.

All the other hints as to Bruce being alive, the autopilot, the fixed bat-signal, all say he is alive. That scene is just the confirmation.

Celia Cyanide
08-05-2012, 08:45 AM
I don't think Alfred would have imagined him with Selena. He wasn't really around when they hit it off. He would have imagined him with Rachel.

maxmordon
08-05-2012, 08:52 AM
I don't think Alfred would have imagined him with Selena. He wasn't really around when they hit it off. He would have imagined him with Rachel.

Quite true.

Jcomp
08-05-2012, 05:51 PM
I really don't accept the answer that "Well, it's Batman" Simply because Nolan has risen the standard in which we'll be measuring superhero movies. It's not a mere superhero movie; it's a personal epic of a man trying to save the world while not being able to save himself.



I dunno. Just my opinion, but I don't really think Nolan elevated the standard too much. I mean TDK and Batman Begins still had plenty of "Well it's Batman," "Well, it's the Joker," "Well, it's the League of Shadows" moments. And I absolutely love TDK, but it's still a movie that has plot holes and gaps in logic galore.

OC-138
08-06-2012, 08:45 AM
Here's an article with links (http://blogs.indiewire.com/criticwire/nitpicking-the-dark-knight-rises-nitpickers) to various stories critiquing (or nitpicking) the various shortcomings, flaws, head-scratching questions and unresolved issues of The Dark Knight Rises. :Huh:

They need to get a life.

Netz
08-07-2012, 12:39 PM
I watched this yesterday, and have to agree with the other posters who've commented on not being able to hear the dialogue at times. Either the music was drowning it out or the actors weren't being clear in their delivery. As a result, I'm a little lost as to what actually happened with Bruce's fingerprints and how he lost his money/the stock exchange thing. Can somebody help me out? Also, what was said to Morgan Freeman's character at the end?

Many thanks! :D

Thankfully I went in with no expectations and not having seen any trailers or read any spoilers (I only knew the vaguest of plots - this Bane character wanted to take over Gotham), so I was able to enjoy it for what it was. Michael Caine had me in tears (bless him!), and I loved how Anne Hathaway was able to switch personas so easily (her first scene with Bruce, and also when she'd been double-crossed in the bar and was hysterical (not in the laughing sense) when the police came in).

Celia Cyanide
08-07-2012, 03:19 PM
They need to get a life.

Yeah, this doesn't really make much sense to me:


Some critics, he claims, were so wary of knocking the movie that they effusively praised what they liked while minimizing what they didn't, and then saved those complaints for later so-called "nitpick posts."

Isn't it possible that they weren't actually "minimizing what they didn't" like about the movie, but rather that all that stuff they were able to nitpick didn't really spoil their enjoyment of the movie? I read a lot of those "nitpick posts" and even the ones I agreed with didn't ruin the movie for me at all. It was still enjoyable.

Why would they be wary of knocking the movie, anyway?

Celia Cyanide
08-07-2012, 03:23 PM
I dunno. Just my opinion, but I don't really think Nolan elevated the standard too much. I mean TDK and Batman Begins still had plenty of "Well it's Batman," "Well, it's the Joker," "Well, it's the League of Shadows" moments. And I absolutely love TDK, but it's still a movie that has plot holes and gaps in logic galore.

I agree, except that I wouldn't call the "well, it's Batman," moments to be a plot hole or a gap in logic. It is well established that Batman is smarter than the police. That's just something that's true about the character. Just because they didn't explicitly explain how he did something doesn't mean he can't do it.

childeroland
08-08-2012, 02:28 AM
Nah, it's already pulled in $250 million overseas and hasn't been released in every market yet. It'll do well overseas. It's not going to put up Avengers or TDK numbers, but it's still going to put up a ridiculously profitable box office.

I didn't mind the bit in the cafe because, as others have mentioned, it was a call-back to Alfred's earlier comment. Bruce deliberately went to that cafe to see Alfred and let him know he was alive.

Yeah, I went to an IMAX screening at 1:30 am two weeks after the film came out -- only time I could get a ticket -- and the house was packed.

nighttimer
08-08-2012, 10:34 AM
They need to get a life.

Why? That's pretty dismissive. Sure, some of the articles are nitpicking, but this is one of the biggest movies of the year, if not the biggest. It's not above critiquing over some of its glaring flaws or omissions.

Christopher Nolan is a helluva director, but he isn't close to being a perfect human being and The Dark Knight Rises is far from a perfect film.

Celia Cyanide
08-08-2012, 04:09 PM
But one of the "flaws" is that Talia and Bruce Wayne had sex? What is wrong with that that isn't wrong with every single other movie that Hollywood puts out?

Manuel Royal
08-08-2012, 04:46 PM
Now that I've had a couple of weeks to reflect on the movie, I'd say it's thematically incoherent, structurally sloppy -- and yet epic. In terms of theme and character, DC has always had some deep wells to draw from.

(Looking through some online reviews, I'm struck by how many amateurs think film criticism is about being clever and snarky, rather than that whole business of loving and studying cinema, understanding how it works and doesn't work, and giving thoughtful evaluations of a film.)

Jcomp
08-08-2012, 05:45 PM
On the web, a lot of it is about getting instant hits. Being clever, snarky and negative is the easiest way to grab attention, particularly if you throw out an opinion that is "controversial" or is overly critical of something popular.

maxmordon
08-08-2012, 06:55 PM
But one of the "flaws" is that Talia and Bruce Wayne had sex? What is wrong with that that isn't wrong with every single other movie that Hollywood puts out?

Yeah, now they are just being silly.

maxmordon
08-08-2012, 08:03 PM
So, I'm writing a retrospective of Batman on cinema and I find myself a bit lacking on the Nolan trilogy. If you could sum up the trilogy, how you would do it?

kuwisdelu
08-09-2012, 03:16 AM
I agree, except that I wouldn't call the "well, it's Batman," moments to be a plot hole or a gap in logic. It is well established that Batman is smarter than the police. That's just something that's true about the character. Just because they didn't explicitly explain how he did something doesn't mean he can't do it.

Not to mention, half the reason some of us go to the cinema see these films is because we want those "well, it's Batman" moments.

J.S.F.
08-09-2012, 07:38 AM
So, I'm writing a retrospective of Batman on cinema and I find myself a bit lacking on the Nolan trilogy. If you could sum up the trilogy, how you would do it?

---

Damn good question. Nolan is a very careful filmmaker. To me, his version of Batman is the complete one, a trilogy that charts the evolution of a person who questions his role in life and decides to become someone no one else dares to, takes the risks no one else will, and is ready to die for a belief that no one else is ready to die for. In short, he examines how someone ordinary can become a legend.

His version of Batman is a man who can be deeply hurt both physically as well as emotionally, someone who will not outwardly show signs of caring except to those he's closest to (i.e. Alfred) but cares nonetheless.

I think Denny O'Neill (sic?) has written about Batman and his views might be on the Net somewhere. O'Neil is 'closer' in a sense, to the persona of Batman than most others. You might check this out for ideas.

nighttimer
08-09-2012, 11:21 AM
So, I'm writing a retrospective of Batman on cinema and I find myself a bit lacking on the Nolan trilogy. If you could sum up the trilogy, how you would do it?

I would say as far as the trilogy goes, it will go down as the greatest of any superhero franchise and under Nolan's vision it demonstrated essentially silly material can have gravitas, significance and quality equal to any Oscar-bait releases reserved for the fall.

Nolan's The Dark Knight made everyone sit bolt upright and realize comic book movies can be serious cinema and please both the masses and critics alike. He saved Batman from the black hole a hack like Joel Schumacher had cast him down to with the wretched excess of Batman and Robin.

If I had to level a criticism of Nolan's trilogy, it's that not once did I ever feel he filmed a great fight scene with Batman, not even against Bane. Maybe that sort of close quarters fighting just isn't something Nolan has a feel for.

The other complaint is Batman is known as The Dark Knight Detective and he's supposed to be among the best at being one. Ras Al Ghul only refers to Batman as "the detective" and it is out of respect for Batman's analytical mind. Nolan shows no interest in exploring Batman's deductive abilities. When in doubt he just goes to Lucius Fox to have him whip up another expensive toy to get him out of a jam.

Whomever takes over the Batman franchise I hope places a little more emphasis on the Caped Crusader as a detective, not just another super hero. Batman is great because he can think his way out of a situation, not just punch his way out.


On the web, a lot of it is about getting instant hits. Being clever, snarky and negative is the easiest way to grab attention, particularly if you throw out an opinion that is "controversial" or is overly critical of something popular.

Perhaps this is so, but the problem for the Internets is it is long on shock value and way short of substance. I've been blogging for four years now and I know if I want to crap up my page hits all I need to do is write about porn, some bubblehead pop tart or some other easily digested subject that requires working eyeballs and little in the way of critical thinking.

I used to worry about falling in the trap of pandering to the lowest common denominator before I realized it can be far more rewarding to write about topics I'm interested in for several hundred or a thousand than crank out crap for a short-term bump in hits.

karo.ambrose
08-09-2012, 07:54 PM
He saved Batman from the black hole a hack like Joel Schumacher had cast him down to with the wretched excess of [I]Batman and Robin.


dude. whatever. batman and robin was the greatest cinematic achievement of our times. especially with gems like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUaEYygaAi4

he stopped her poison kiss with rubber lips. effing genius if you ask me.

...

but yeah, they had batman and robin on tv a couple of days ago and i saw the scene where they captured mr. freeze. they brought him to his prison cell in a refrigerator. i was dying lolling.

batman and robin might not be the *best* batman movie, or even *good*, but goddamn it's funny.

maxmordon
08-09-2012, 08:03 PM
I would say as far as the trilogy goes, it will go down as the greatest of any superhero franchise and under Nolan's vision it demonstrated essentially silly material can have gravitas, significance and quality equal to any Oscar-bait releases reserved for the fall.

Nolan's The Dark Knight made everyone sit bolt upright and realize comic book movies can be serious cinema and please both the masses and critics alike. He saved Batman from the black hole a hack like Joel Schumacher had cast him down to with the wretched excess of Batman and Robin.



Yes, that's what I thought. It allowed to A LOT of people look beyond the "just a superhero movie" prejudice opening the door to more mature superheroes.

Ehjookayted
08-10-2012, 06:23 PM
I've always wanted to discuss this trilogy with people of some greater understanding of symbolism and the undercurrents of this series.

Substance: that's what this movie has. It's different and it's a bit on the mature end. People rave about the movie but when you talk to them about the undertones and themes, they look at you like you're crazy.

I think that's just a testament to Nolan. He so subtly gives so much meaning to everything in the story that it doesn't register as a huge symbol; instead, it subconsciously registers with people and all they can say about the movie is that it was "epic" or "awesome." Breaking it down? Finding out what makes our subconscious say, "woah"? That's our job. ;)

Anyway, I digress. Has anyone here seen The Prestige (by Nolan as well), and has anyone heard of the Prestige Theory? It's basically how that movie encapsulates the three Batman movies and foreshadows each one. It makes the movies much more beautiful in their links to each other, I think.

Evan Henry
08-11-2012, 02:44 AM
I liked the movie. It felt like a satisfying conclusion to the series, overall. It wasn't without its problems, though. The character of Selina Kyle could have been dumped from the movie entirely with little to no negative results. And Batman could have been in it a little more, as well.

But yes, it was a good movie. I don't get the rationale most of the negative reviews. Some people just like to hate things, I guess.

Celia Cyanide
08-11-2012, 05:58 AM
The character of Selina Kyle could have been dumped from the movie entirely with little to no negative results.

I disagree. He needed not to be alone at the end. If he's given up his life as Batman, AND his life as Bruce Wayne, AND his lifelong friendship with Alfred, he needs something.

nighttimer
08-11-2012, 09:23 AM
I disagree. He needed not to be alone at the end. If he's given up his life as Batman, AND his life as Bruce Wayne, AND his lifelong friendship with Alfred, he needs something.

Working on his collection of Boy Wonders? :D

Ehjookayted
08-11-2012, 06:20 PM
Well, his friendship with Alfred was implied to be alright because Wayne was in the location of Alfred's dream and because Alfred appeared to gesture a motion of getting up after they nodded at each other.

I can't say he needed Kyle but it definitely made for an interesting plotline and wrapped the movie up rather nicely.