Positive Critique

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Karen Junker

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Would you guys mind giving me some hints as to what I can say in a critique that will be kind and uplifting and point out the good things to the writer?

I'm pretty good at pointing to typos and other errors, but I'm not the chirpiest person on earth and I'd like to get some ideas about how I can give positive reinforcement.

Thanks, and if this isn't the right forum for this question I apologize.
 

F.E.

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Well, you could wait until someone like me a blunt critiquer gives his critique before giving yours. :D
 

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On a more serious note: I've seen some situations where a critiquer was very helpful and yet, the author still blows up at him/her. And I've seen situations where the critiquer was way too blunt, where I even cringed, and the author was gracious in his/her response.

To play it safe, I guess a critiquer might have to research the author a bit first, to check out the author's posting history, in order to weed out the, er, well, you know what I mean. :)

Me personally, I'm not really able to add fluff to my critiques. And so, I'm tending to now offer my comments in bits and pieces, to see how the author reacts, instead of me blindly committing myself to spending a couple of hours on a critique.
 

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Just point out what works in the same way you point out what doesn't. If a line is particularly evocative, or a description really apt, a joke funny etc etc, say so. Now if there is nothing at all to comment on, well that might be a problem, but I find there's always something, even if it is the general idea of the work or a good name choice.
 

SomethingOrOther

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I'm pretty good at pointing to typos and other errors, but I'm not the chirpiest person on earth and I'd like to get some ideas about how I can give positive reinforcement.

If you were to analyze a passage written by one of your favorite authors and write a couple hundred words about its strengths, what would you say? It's sort of like that. The sort of passage you're critiquing, probably written by a less-accomplished writer, probably still in the drafting stages, might have fewer strengths, and sometimes you'll have to settle for non-weaknesses in lieu of strengths. That might make it harder, but I don't think the ability to point out positive things is a function of how chirpy you are—it's about how well you can analyze and break down passages.

What I'd do is put aside the passage for a second and create a mental checklist of writing-related elements, e.g., characterization, description, sentence rhythm, diction, paragraphing, humor, etc. Then I'd take one of those elements, scan through the work, and look for specific things the author did well related to it. I'd write what I found (or nothing, if I found nothing) and move on to the next element. Narrowing things down to one category at a time makes things much easier.
 
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Unimportant

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I like to tell the author what worked for me as well as what didn't. Sadly I often forget the first part. I do make an extra effort with new/young writers, who are a bit more fragile.

So I'll point out good phrases, funny bits of dialogue, and lovely metaphors. Or cool concepts and plot twists. Or, if there isn't a whole lot of good to say about the ms, I'll try and find a non-cliched aspect -- frex, the use of a character who isn't white, thin, beautiful, rich, straight, able-bodied, clever, and popular.

Sometimes a ms is like a butt-ugly horse where the only thing you can find to say is 'he has nice ears', but 'nice ears' may be enough to encourage the author to give it another go and learn more about the craft.
 

Ketzel

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I don't think pointing out the positives in a critique is the same as adding fluff to it. To me, fluff is the patronizing, borderline meaningless comment meant to take the sting out of the actual critique. When a comment like "I love the energy of your prose," follows a page of red type pointing out syntax and grammar errors, diction errors. POV problems and info-dumps, I'd call the praise "fluff."

(And just because I don't need it or like offering it, doesn't mean fluff doesn't have its place, particularly when very new writers are posting.)

On the other hand, I find it helpful when someone says, for example, the rhythm of this sentence really works to build tension, or the similes are very amusing, or the dialogue is realistic. Specifics on what I'm doing right can be as useful as specifics on what I'm doing wrong. Both point me in a direction that strengthens my writing in the future.
 

Karen Junker

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I don't think the ability to point out positive things is a function of how chirpy you are—it's about how well you can analyze and break down passages.

Yes, I do have the issues with analytical ability -- I don't know if it's related to my brain injury, but I seem to be able to home in on a typo and still not be able to come up with something nice to say for the same piece. I guess I'm looking for some specific suggestions. In chat, someone was saying stuff like "great dialogue!" and "nice character" and so on. I just need to make a list of these types of things and use some of them in my critiques, I think.
 

Phaeal

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Just point out what works in the same way you point out what doesn't. If a line is particularly evocative, or a description really apt, a joke funny etc etc, say so. Now if there is nothing at all to comment on, well that might be a problem, but I find there's always something, even if it is the general idea of the work or a good name choice.

I agree. I've yet to read a piece of writing where absolutely nothing worked, even if only partially. Plus you can show your good will by asking the writer questions aimed to get at the heart of the piece. Like, "I was curious about why Elmer might stutter when his father's around but not otherwise? That's pretty interesting."
 

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I don't think pointing out the positives in a critique is the same as adding fluff to it.
Ah, yes, good point. I'm not a fluffy person myself, though on occasion I've fluffed a critique if the author is very young and the writing is utterly abysmal.
 

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Yes, I do have the issues with analytical ability -- I don't know if it's related to my brain injury, but I seem to be able to home in on a typo and still not be able to come up with something nice to say for the same piece. I guess I'm looking for some specific suggestions. In chat, someone was saying stuff like "great dialogue!" and "nice character" and so on. I just need to make a list of these types of things and use some of them in my critiques, I think.

If what you are saying is true, that you can't analyze a work beyond basic grammar and spelling (and there isn't anything wrong with that) then maybe you should only provide copy editing style critiques. Explain to the author what you said here, that you aren't good at analyzing what works and what doesn't, but that you are great at finding spelling and grammar errors. Then the author won't expect more from you.

But you shouldn't fake a critique. People put a lot of stock in what people say of their work, and lying with a generic "Great dialogue" is not helpful. It could actually be detrimental, making someone think they are good at something when they aren't, thus holding the writer back from improving.
 

Karen Junker

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Yes, I agree that it would be bad to lie. I am able to do more than *just* typos, but I tend not to think of compliments. I think having a list of elements to consider will help me come up with nice things to say when they are true of the work. I'm just not clever at coming up with ways to say them!
 

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Karen, maybe one strategy would be to crit in your usual manner, and then re-read the piece and notice which sections/paragraphs/sentences you didn't hammer with your red pen. Then separate those okay bits into "there's nothing wrong with this sentence" versus "there's nothing wrong with this sentence and there's actually something appealing about this" -- and when you identify the appealing facets, you'll be able to articulate what aspects the author is doing well.
 

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Excellent advice! Also Karen, it isn't like there is a separate list of good writing elements vs bad. ANYTHING can be well done just as those exact same things can be poorly done. I like what Unimportant advised of looking at the bits you took no issue with and then turning that into a compliment.
 

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Maybe it'll help to take a different approach to critiques. What is the purpose of a critique? Is it only for finding flaws so the writer can fix them?

I once got very positive feedback, in addition to constructive feedback, from a beta reader, and the positive did more for me than I could have imagined. Sure, it helped how I felt about my writing, and enhanced my vigour in attacking the flaws in my writing, but more to the point, it also emphasised what I could really work with in my writing. Like, I'm good at dialogue, so why not have more of it rather than just the two lines every twenty pages; why not put that skill to good use in some other scenes? It all makes the book better.

There are not just things to fix, there are also good things to be made better, and often the things we're good at are the things we can get even better at. If a writer can find places in their prose to really shine, why not work just as hard at polishing those as at getting the poo off the page?

I hope I've explained myself okay; am feeling a headache coming on.
 

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Well, I got one for you. I often see compositions that have a long way to go - they may overuse modifiers, their idea might be confusing, the characters superficial etc - but they may have a decent ability to construct a more or less grammatically correct sentence, avoid run-on sentences, and to balance complex and simple sentences. Those are all good things, I usually point out whatever combination might be present and let the person know that I think their writing has a good flow.
 

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Once upon a time, Karen Junker, you offered a lovely critique on a partial written by me and my partner. It was clear, open and honest and I wished (then; we've published since) that you had time to go over the entire manuscript.

From my experience, I think you're doing a fine job.
 

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I'm not one for giving "sandwich" reviews, but if that's what you're going for, you could try phrasing it like:

While the piece is technically sound, the plot has some issues. (list issues) Your writing is too clean for you to settle for less than perfection on the plot.

or

I really love the characterization, however it's getting lost in too many adjectives (or sloppy grammar, etc.) If you'll really polish the technical aspects, your writing will really shine.

Lead with something positive, put what needs work in context of that, then close with another positive.
 

buz

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Everybody's already given great responses, and I don't think I have anything to add in that regard. I just want to say that I'm constantly paranoid that whenever anyone says something nice to me in a critique, it's just something they say for the sake of being nice...:D Don't say something just for the sake of being nice. If it's genuinely good, I want to know, just as I want to know if something is genuinely bad--above all, I want the truth.

You can, though, be supremely tactful, such that the critique is near-painless, even if you don't say anything particularly positive. I mean, I personally can't, but I've seen it. That in itself could be an interesting writing exercise...
 

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I have always had this same problem (if it's actually a problem, IDK). The 'need improvement' things stand out, but otherwise, a well-written and engaging story doesn't necessarily have those stand-out moments of glory in them. So, just like I don't mention minor 'infractions' in the writing, I don't get all hyped up about noting the minor "oh, that was a bit more engaging than the rest of it". I generally let the writer know if I like the overall story or not - but more as a caveat to my crit than anything else.
 

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Yes, I do have the issues with analytical ability -- I don't know if it's related to my brain injury, but I seem to be able to home in on a typo and still not be able to come up with something nice to say for the same piece. I guess I'm looking for some specific suggestions. In chat, someone was saying stuff like "great dialogue!" and "nice character" and so on. I just need to make a list of these types of things and use some of them in my critiques, I think.


maybe...maybe you're just uncomfortable--I can readily point out what "doesn't work for me" but not nearly as much stuff sings, and I feel sort of awkward telling folks when the stuff is "adequate to good"....I figure they hoped to be writing well, my place is to tell them where I think they've fallen off the beam, not to keep telling them they're on it.

Make any sense?
 

quicklime

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...... I just want to say that I'm constantly paranoid that whenever anyone says something nice to me in a critique, it's just something they say for the sake of being nice...:D ...



if it makes you feel better, i am pretty sure I have never, ever done this.




*kicks a kitten, tells it that it was not enunciating the vowels in its mewling well enough

**realizes words are wasted on dead kittens, makes note to kick more softly
 

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Would you guys mind giving me some hints as to what I can say in a critique that will be kind and uplifting and point out the good things to the writer?

I'm pretty good at pointing to typos and other errors, but I'm not the chirpiest person on earth and I'd like to get some ideas about how I can give positive reinforcement.

My advice is to find the writer's best skill and compliment that. All writers have one skill they're better at than others. Usually it's one of: Dialogue, worldbuilding, plot, characterization, or description. If your writer is good at one of those, applaud them for it. If they're mediocre at all of them, pick out the parts that they did well and encourage them for that before you move on to the bad stuff. ("I really like the character of Hambone, he's much more believable and realistic than the rest of your cast.")
 
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