Chuck Lorre. . .

I love TBBT and can't stand 2 1/2M, but I'll agree the laugh track is awful in both of them.

TBBT reminds me of Bosom Buddies, and in Sheldon, has one of the most approachable representations of someone on the autism spectrum I've seen in recent TV (Bones is another). The background characters need fleshing out, but the comedy is usually funny.

Seraph said:

Real comedy shouldn't depend on a laugh track telling you what's funny. In theory you should supply the laughter. I've got this pet theory they work for people more susceptible to peer pressure, as if hearing others laughing makes them think something funny is taking place.

Click to expand...

Exactly. That's how they work, and work, they do. That's why they've been used for decades.

Didn't Lorre do Dharma and Greg, too? I loved that show.

(FWIW, laugh tracks also - originally - fostered the illusion of a studio audience for shows without the budget or notoriety suited for one.)

Yes, D and G is one of his.

Love TBBT. And I don't pay attention to laugh tracks. I laugh at what I find funny.

Dude. Yes. Everything you said x1000. Thank you.

I watched a few episodes of TBBT because everybody I know kept telling me Oh it's gamer-geek-science-nerd humor! You'll love it! And I didn't laugh once. NOT ONCE. The jokes were all like, Look at the nerd! He makes funny smart-people talk but is socially awkward and nervous around boobs! Har har! Geeks speak Klingon but they don't know contemporary mainstream pop culture!! Hahahaha! Socially-retarded geniuses!! That's ironic!! Hahahaha! Sexual frustration!! HAHA! Adults playing videogames!! HAHAHA! LAUGH, MONKEY! LAUGH!!!

*bangs head against wall*

I saw about five minutes of one episode of Two and a Half Men. That was enough. Forever. A little piece of my soul died in that five minutes. And a slightly larger piece of my uterus.

The only show I've seen in recent memory that made me actually laugh out loud was Community. And now they're gonna cancel it. Sigh.

Oh! And Peep Show! It's a British series, they have it on Netflix. That's a funny one, too. I highly recommend that one to anyone who doesn't consider The Fart to be the apotheosis of all comedy.

Yeah, I think 2 1/2 Men is utter crap, but I love The Big Bang Theory. Just find one funny and the other not. Can't really explain why. Maybe I just don't think Charlie Sheen and "old, unattractive guy who still drinks and parties like he's 19 and thinks it's cute" is at all humorous.

The older episodes of TBBT seem much funnier to me. The thing that I've noticed with Chuck Lorre is that when he runs out of ideas, he goes for the cheap laugh which usually means sexual innuendo, which is fine, but then he seems to keep pushing it to see just how far he can go. I used to watch 2 1/2 Men and got tired of it being all about the cheap laughs. It stops being funny and just at some point and becomes kind of awkward and flat-out raunchy.

Huh. We had a discussion along these lines (I almost said, a similar discussion, but it wasn't) after watching two episodes of a new "comedy" called Men at Work--which had been compared during onair ads as similar to TBBT. Men at Work is horrible horrible drivel compared to TBBT. It has four archetypes rather than characters that then riff off each other without presenting any sort of reason that they would even be friends.

TBBT has four guys (and the last coupla seasons, three girls) that riff off each other and yet whom you can at least rationalize as being in a socially cohesive unit. Is it high art? No. But a few of the actors (Parsons and Rauch especially and Bialik often) have great comedic timing and the dialogue builds off of dialogue that preceded it in a semi-organic fashion (unlike Men at Work which simply tells jokes like a stand up comedian trying out new material at an open mike). I do feel it should end in the next year or so, as they run the risk of phoning the work in after that--much of the characterization is already devastatingly predictable.

I have tried watching 2 1/2 Men a couple of times and never made it to the end of an episode. Other than having Lorre as a producer I see few similarities between the shows.

Personally I'm a big fan of 30 Rock. But while most people have heard of it, I seldom meet other fans.

I refuse to watch Two and a Half Men. It's just not funny, or even mildly entertaining to me. In fact, I find it incredibly irritating. I change the channel every time it's on.

I enjoy older episodes of The Big Bang Theory, but the newer ones are reaching for me. Unlike you, Seraph, all my nerd friends get the humor and enjoy it (almost all Electrical Engineers, including my Hubby, although one is an Aerospace Engineer and one is a Computer Engineer. The CE is also pretty into comics and comic conventions and gaming). Of course the science behind the show is off, it's a tv show. I don't go in expecting a science lesson, although I am familiar with most the science they discuss. Not every joke is funny, and no I don't only laugh when the laugh track plays--which is a tool as old as sitcoms itself, everything from I Love Lucy to Friends.

I also have mild Asperger's and severe OCD so I relate to characters like Sheldon and Bones. For example, I have a particular seat everywhere I go, I can't sit anywhere else. I just can't. (I'm okay with restaurants where the waitress seats you, but when I can choose my own seat, it takes me a while to find the right one and when I do, I always sit there). I have to do things in even numbers and I can't stand to be touched, especially my ears. These things aren't made up, they're real and they have real repercussions.

I don't appreciate you calling it "Assburgers." Trust me, it's not a fun thing to live with and social interaction doesn't come easily for me. So when you say things like this:

What's funny about that? I get it, I get it, he has Assbugers, that's his character. That doesn't make it funny, nor something to celebrate. Kids are watching this and thinking it's cool to be a douche.

Click to expand...

it's completely off-putting. I don't think people are watching and thinking it's cool to be a douche. I hope they're understanding more about how people on the autism spectrum interact. I'm not a douche, but I am blatantly honest. I can't help it, and sometimes it doesn't come out the nicest way, but the people I'm around understand.

TBBT is hilarious.

2-1/2 Men was funny early on when the kid was still a kid. Now he's just creepy.


If you don't like them, that's OK. Not everyone finds the same things funny or entertaining. I'm sure you like things I'd find atrocious so it all works out.

Stiger05 said:

I don't appreciate you calling it "Assburgers." Trust me, it's not a fun thing to live with and social interaction doesn't come easily for me. So when you say things like this:

What's funny about that? I get it, I get it, he has Assbugers, that's his character. That doesn't make it funny, nor something to celebrate. Kids are watching this and thinking it's cool to be a douche.

Click to expand...

it's completely off-putting.

Click to expand...

Agreed. There are a significant number of people who use this board that have Asperger's, and of those, you'd be surprised how many find it something "to celebrate" rather than bemoan.

Cyia said:

Agreed. There are a significant number of people who use this board that have Asperger's, and of those, you'd be surprised how many find it something "to celebrate" rather than bemoan.

Click to expand...

Or who have children on the spectrum.



BTW, we generally no longer allow our kids to watch TBBT. The humor in the last season or two has become too adult. (And we've found the quality of humor dropping off, too, in general; not because of the more adult nature, but it just doesn't seem as funny lately.) But when we did, we--and our older daughter--found it rather nice to see a representation of a character like Sheldon who was valued at work and at home (despite the issues he sometimes has/causes). We don't think it teaches kids that it's great to be "a douche" (which he is not). We think it's great that it teaches kids that even people with quirks and social difficulties can have full, happy, normal lives.


2.5 Men is horrible, though.

Earlier episodes of Two and a Half Men were funny, until the point where Jake stopped being a cute little moppet. I don't watch the show unless there's absolutely nothing else on these days.

Earlier seasons of The Big Bang Theory really resonate me. While my friends and I aren't into the same things as the guys on the show, we're all awkward like that. Maybe not to the point the guys are at, but it reminds me scarily of my high school group of friends. Later seasons... ehh, not so much. I watch them, mostly because I've been a fan of Mayim Bialik since she was on Blossom and I love Amy as a character, and Melissa Rauch is hilarious. I'm not a huge fan of some of the storylines in the recent season (Leonard and Penny getting back together? I'm having flashbacks to Ross and Rachel). My fiance complained after the season finale this year that it was "turning into a girl show."

I wasn't really old enough to appreciate Dharma and Greg when it was first on - it first aired when I was eleven.

Maybe I'm mistaken... but perhaps Seraph just spelled Aspergers wrong? He didn't actually write "Assburgers". Benefit of the doubt. Just sayin'.


And as for TBBT as a positive portrayal... I'm a little put-off by how the media portrays AS in general, but the few eps of TBBT I've seen weren't really all that positive. All the characters were clownish, and their lack of social skills/awareness WAS the humor. It just seems like you're supposed to be laughing AT their mental and emotional problems. I'm going to borrow a snippet of someone else's convo from a blog I was reading, because it sums up my feelings:


"When you look at it through the eyes of an autist (and I have not had that privilege, but I have had it explained to me), you’re seeing something very different.
This scene is hilarious if you can just shrug off Sheldon’s compulsion as just plain old “weirdness”. His friends (and the audience) greatly enjoy the twitching and general discomfort Sheldon shows at being kept from his “weirdness”. But this weirdness is a need and, as Sheldon says, Leonard promised “not to do that anymore”.
And it breaks my heart. Because the joke is based on laughing at someone who is actually suffering. Someone who is being bullied by people he trusts. And it makes it less funny over all."


Also, I can't help but resent the fact super-smart people are always portrayed as socially-inept freaks. And the super-hot chicks are always vapid and need to be saved by a dude. The very first episode used every stereotype in the dang book. Socially-inept sexually-frustrated nerds who inevitably have OCD and Aspergers have to rescue Hot Vapid Girl (or, y'know go get her tv back for her because her boobs overpowered their common sense and NO MAN CAN SAY NO TO BOOBS!) and confront her ex, who was inevitably a Big Dumb Hot Muscle Guy who pantsed them, humiliated them, and made them go walk home in their underwear.


Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuu...


That being said, humor is extremely subjective and we all like different stuff. I think so many smart folks like the show because they get all the science and geekdom references, and so many -ahem- not-so-smart people like it because they can laugh at those foolish nerds for being so awkward and "weird".

DarthPanda said:

He didn't actually write "Assburgers".

Click to expand...

Really?

Seraph said:

I get it, he has Assbugers,

Click to expand...

You're right. Technically, he used the more childish version that sounds like "ass-boogers". We were being kind.

Let's assume (so I don't have to lock the thread), that it was a genuine mistake and it'll be edited when Seraph comes back. Thanks.

Cyia said:

Really?



You're right. Technically, he used the more childish version that sounds like "ass-boogers". We were being kind.

Click to expand...

I've just seen the word misspelled so many different ways all over the 'net and was giving the guy the benefit of the doubt that maybe his misspelling was just that.

Maybe I'm just sensitive to it, but "Assburgers" is the most common spelling I've seen for people who are mocking the condition. Really, it's not that hard to type it in Google and get the correct spelling before you post, unless you're mocking. Like I said though, maybe I'm just sensitive to the issue.

Wait. The Sheldon character has Aspergers? Is that a fact? I thought he was just socially inept, like me. I relate to these characters. Is it a stereotype to be socially inept as a geek or nerd? Yes. But it's a stereotype because it's also true in many cases.

I will say upfront that I don't have Aspergers. I do know a couple of people who are on the spectrum but not closely.

So, I don't find Sheldon a douche at all. In fact, because he's so truthful, he hits the nail on the head in a good way sometimes. For instance, the way he dissects the relationship between for instance, Penny and Leonard. It shows Leonard what is going on between the two of them. And sometimes he can beat those around him. Remember when he 'trained' Penny by rewarding her with chocolate? He may not have the instincts when it comes to personal relationships but that doesn't stop him being able to work stuff out when it is put in a context he can understand.

As for the other characters bullying him, I don't see that. Yes they get angry or annoyed with him. But surely, living with someone on the spectrum must get you annoyed sometimes. That's only human. It can't be easy to live with.

As I say, I'm no expert on this but I think Sheldon is a more positive role model than a negative one. No?

As for the OP, that was a pretty rude post. Both to those on the spectrum and those of us who aren't but enjoy watching TBBT.

I have engineer friends who rank only slightly lower on the autism spectrum charts than Sheldon. One of them is the love of my life, too. I know how he and his friends 'tick', I make allowances, and it doesn't bother me. The earlier seasons of TBBT made me laugh for the jokes, though I agree we could do without the laugh track.

Could that be Lorre's cynical jab at his viewers: that the television audience is considered so dumb that science/nerd humor HAS to be cued with canned laughter?

But the laugh track isn't specific to Chuck Lorre shows, is it? It's been on sitcoms for years.

And I'm not sure there is a laugh track on TBBT in Britain.

GOODNESS YOU GUYS. Chuck Lorre doesn't use a laugh track on his shows. He uses a live studio audience. Those people cracking up are watching the actual show. I've been to two live tapings of TBBT. You don't have to think its funny, but at least get the facts straight before you mock.

Read this vanity card (thing that flashes onscreen at the end of all his shows, which is different every week): http://www.chucklorre.com/images/vc282big.jpg I am in this picture, the gal in the blue Stanford sweatshirt